Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, I've worked hard my whole life. Something I doubt that you'll bother to do despite your ranting about it.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Why should I believe a word of what you've just written? You're a known liar, so you'll have to do better than claim your own personal experiences.

Edit: Fixed the quoting

[ July 29, 2004, 00:01: Message edited by: Graeme Dice ]

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I somewhat agree...
if people are lazy we shouldn't just blindly feed them and give them free healthcare otherwise a percentage will reproduce and a high percentage of them will follow or be stuck the same example.

The best solution is to instead give them food for a few days and teach them how to fish. Have them realize the rewards of working such as getting healthcare. I definitely believe in helping others, but only with permanent/productive solutions... not some lifetime leeching plan.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What welfare state? I wasn't aware that the equivalent of making health insurance mandatory and universal was the equivalent of a welfare state. I'm not supporting a comfortable lifestyle for those people who don't want to work, and suggesting that I am is nothing more than a strawman. I am suggesting that a person should be guaranteed enough resources so that they aren't malnourished, as long as they don't waste those resources on anything that is unnecssary. If they want to waste that money, then yes, let them starve, but at least try and help their children so that they don't end up like their parents.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">"Help their children so they don't end up like their parents"? In the case of the unemployed single mother with 8 kids (I believe that was the gist of your example), the only way to help the children is by taking them away from the parent. And spaying the parent. (We do it to dogs and cats, and dogs and cats are generally nicer 'people' than humans.)

You said we should support that mother of 8. That's a welfare state. You said that we should ensure that no one starves, no one is in poverty, no one is homeless, regardless of whether or not they're able to work but choose not to. That's a welfare state.

As I said - I think we ought to work harder at providing _opportunities_ for people to work; health care, education, the prison systems, etc, shouldn't be set up with profit as their sole motive (which is what privatization is all about). We should fix the system so that CEOs don't get obscene bonuses for screwing their employees, their communities, and the environment over.

But with Boy George preparing for a second term in office, and Little Jeb planning to occupy the White House after that, none of those things are going to happen. Not with the @#$#@ Bush Dynasty trying to rework the USA's politics and system.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There's no evidence to suggest this is a bad thing, either. According to the Bible, Heaven is hotter than Hell. It's not a nice place to be.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm familiar with that part, yes. Don't you think people should be allowed to take that risk, though?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Amazingly, antique vehicles as such are not difficult to acquire at modest cost. It's not like I'm driving a state-of-the-art vehicle here. It's no different from driving a tractor or bulldozer around, a not-uncommon occurrence in rural areas where I happen to live.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have chronic insomnia. It's not an uncommon affliction, and sleep is singularly unrestful for me.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You said it yourself, America's a violent and dangerous place, particularly in nasty urban areas. I also have been shot before as part of work-related injuries.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I never said that. I merely said that this is a safe assumption to operate under.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Many heavily-armed hermits dwell in Montana. As a conversation I once had with somebody Online went as I pointed out people like you complaining about this very thing, he replied, "I'm from Montana. We call you normal."

What a coincidence that I just happen to be a resident of Montana. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Such behavior is not uncommon out here.

Body armor and weapons are not hard to come by. Need I point you to a website where you, too, can purchase your own Kevlar vests, or do you think you can manage that on your own?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh, be serious. Mad Max is entirely a movie. How the hell does he afford all that gas for all that driving anyway, with the world being in that condition?

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">
so a question : galilei was the one who discovered that . i am pretty sure you know the story . the catholic church forced him to deny his ideas . he did .

but now some hundred years later the pope spoke galilei holy .


Actually, I think most of the stories about people thinking the world is flat are apocryphal. Certainly, the Greeks knew it was round and the flat earth was not the reason Galileo was persecuted.

The issue there was whether the Sun or the Earth lay at the centre of the solar system. Catholic teaching demanded that it be the Earth, but Galileo knew otherwise.

And yes, official recognition of the error was only forthcoming from the Catholic church in recent times. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">yeah it was the sun . i just quoted Cheezeninja's
and didn't notice that small fault .
but the old astrologists like galileo are really good examples for that and similiar with darwin some catholic sects still claim that the bible is true and the earth got formed in 6 days .

the main problem with the catholic church i have is that they are the most "aggressive" big world religion . they evangelise still intolerant .
in history they even forced other beliefs violently to theirs like the inqisition in spain or the crusades .
on the other hand the muslims tolerated catholic beliefers in the middle ages and didn't force them to get either catholic or killed .
same with the force proselitiziation of the native americans .
protestants , buddhists and so on try to convince you rational that their faith is the one true but if they can't convince you they don't treat you as a worse human .
while the catholic church is much more agressive and treats you as inferior if you don't let you convince to become catholic and stay with your belief .

that makes me fear . fanaticism is evil . just look at bin laden . but the muslim faith is in general more tolerant bin laden is only a sect which isn't even tolerated by the muslim leaders while the catholic church seems to me much more fanatic and they tolerate , even support extreme and almost violent catholic sects .
at least in europe the catholics are this way perhaps the american catholics are more moderate because they are not as dependent on the pope as the european ones and they are not the majority in the usa so they can't afford to be as arrogant as they are in europe .
in the area where i life protestants are a small minority ( about 5-10% ) and especially the old catholics are still very intolerant and even show us protestants that we are very inferior in their eyes .
they would almost like to start a new 30 years war lol .
so my view of the catholics is perhaps a bit biased by own expierience .
of course every major group has "black sheeps" but normally the main organisation tries to get rid of these "black sheeps" .
while with the catholic church this is the other way round . there the highest leaders not only tolerate these black sheeps but even share their opinions .

it is like e.g. in a democracy still some or many politicians are corrupt but at least a democracy tries to limit corruption while in a dictature it is supported and the dictator him self profits most from that .
the pope is in many ways similiar to that .
the current pope is good and rather modest but his most likely successor ratzinger is very intolerant again .

[ July 28, 2004, 12:56: Message edited by: Boron ]

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, you know the saying. Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you've just lost a perfectly good customer.

The "Work or Starve" plan, on the other hand, has a singular element of elegance to it. One way or another, the problem takes care of itself. Nature loves self-correcting systems, and so do I.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Of course you are. You're nothing more than a teenager living in your parents house. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Either that, or perhaps he is indeed old and senile, as he claim he is. It becomes hard to distinquish the immaturity level due to very young and very old age. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif But all his bizzare stories about his very own T34 that he drives around, and his duels with LAWS and guns on the highways, sugest very immature person who can not be taken seriosly. Although he clearly do not reilize it himself, thinking that he sounds cool and tough. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I find the idea that god is watching us every step of our lives taking notes rather amusing. I mean why should he?

Lets assume you knew the position of every piece of matter that exists, had a complete understanding of all physical laws, and the brainpower to calculate everything (all 3 things which I assume the christian god would have), then you would know the outcome of ones live before he would even be born. So why would god create souls for people he already knows are going to burn in hell?

It is my personal understanding that we are the ones who judge ourselfes after live. Maybe we will see got and understand what we did wrong and what was right, the joy for the good things being heaven and the despise for the bad things being hell.
In any case, doing something not because you fear god could punish you is like cheating. I mean, translate it in other words: I would do it if there was no god. And I think that says everything about your personality.
Goodness is something you do from your own free will, and not because you are forced to.

[ July 29, 2004, 00:59: Message edited by: PrinzMegaherz ]

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You want me to show you a site you can buy some of this stuff?

http://www.coldwarremarketing.com/

Go get your own. They're not THAT hard to get, you know.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think you may have greatly exaggerated the magnitude of the actual shootout. It doesn't work that way in real life. Too many movies for you, Storm.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Because it's funny? Let's face it: If you were an all-powerful being with such capabilities, why would you bother creating the universe at all, if not for the sheer entertainment value involved in doing so? Clearly, if there's a God, he's a very bored individual with too much time on his hands. I mean, hell, look at me. I'm just a retired old coot, and I'm bored and have too much time on my hands. What must it be like to be immortal and all-powerful, living for all eternity? Must be damn boring. I'd sure do something whacky like creating a universe or two.

If God exists, the platypus is proof that he has a sense of humor.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If there was a Dog who condemned people to eternal damnation in fire for not worshiping him, that Dog doesn't deserve to be worshipped.

He'd be a sadist of the worst non-consensual kind, insane, and malicious. Of course, the Bible does give some supporting evidence.

After all - a being who could design and create all the things in the universe singlehandedly would, beyond all doubt or question, be a genius of divine magnitude.

On a good day, his finest creations might well be perfection itself, or damn near. And the finest of these near perfect creations, these ... angels, might see that his creator, his overlord, was in fact a certifiable pathological monster, and rebel against him.

Lucifer, anyone?

(And anyone who both believes hir Bible to be the exact holy writ of Dog, _and_ doesn't believe God to be a monster, hasn't read very carefully. Infants slaughtered by divine decree, god approving of children being torn into pieces for mocking one of his holy prophets (one of the _very_ few who supposed was "ascended" directly into heaven without having to die first) Even the Divine Lottery - if you were born in ... Italy, you go to heaven. If you were born in .. China - hell. If you had a priest at your deathbed - heaven. If you didn't - hell. If (back in the old day) you had enough lambs to sacrifice - heaven. Too poor to own lambs? Hell.)

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Getting bored? That would suggest that god is actually sentient in a human way. It is easy to imagine god as an elderly man with a long beard, so we can actually understand him. But maybe got is much more abstract than we can imagine. Maybe "god" is just a mathematical term that defines the laws of nature. Or maybe god is the complete soulmatter of every living being, including you and me?

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You want me to show you a site you can buy some of this stuff?

http://www.coldwarremarketing.com/

Go get your own. They're not THAT hard to get, you know.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No thanks. Why don't you post picture of YOU on top of your tank instead, in your undeground bunker? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif That would be at least *some* proof to your lunatic claims. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif


<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think you may have greatly exaggerated the magnitude of the actual shootout. It doesn't work that way in real life. Too many movies for you, Storm. [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I am just repeating you own words silly, in case you have forgoten already. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif You said you have used LAWS weapons to blown up cars with some unknown dudes on the highway, who were shooting at you with their automatic weapons for no apparent reason. Perhaps too much Holywood did influenced your unstable mind, but I have no way of telling.

[ July 29, 2004, 01:26: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I can't think of any other analogue that would explain why a being would willfully create the universe, an object which seems to serve no particular purpose.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, but if this is the case, then "god" as defined in any religious text, does not exist, since a mathematical term is not a being.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That also doesn't fit the depiction as given by mainstream religion. Once again, such a thing is not a position to possess any sort of volition or ability to act independently, or to perform acts such as creating the universe, or consigning people to burn in hell for all eternity.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Even if I wanted to do such a thing, who would hold the camera?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, I did not. I said I attempted to aim one at such an enemy vehicle, but did not get a clean line of fire, so didn't actually fire it. I also never said that dudes on the highway were firing automatic weapons at me. They appeared to be armed with standard, semi-automatic pistols and rifles. You are greatly exaggerating the case, as I said. Small shootouts like this happen with not-uncommon frequency.

[ July 29, 2004, 01:31: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Does it not? Lets take Budhism. If a soul has experienced everything there is to experience (after it has lived many lifes), it dissolves into Brahman, which is actually beginning and end of everything at once. I am not sure whether Brahman is supposed to be a sentient being. In any case, its much less prone to logical errors than our religion(in my case catholic).

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh yeah, many's the week I've had to run and gun my way through packs of drunken welfare hoboes (who have kept themselves alive on universal medicare) armed with 38 specials and rusty kitchen knives on my way home from work.

Thank god I can sit down an play Dominions 2 to take the edge off.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Even if I wanted to do such a thing, who would hold the camera?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">ROFL. This is the lamest excuse I ever heard. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif You may take a cigar. Ever heard of auto-shoot cameras? Where you set up a few seconds timer and go "cheese"? Even cheapest soapbox cameras have it these days. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Or better just ask your parents to press a button, frankly I am starting to believe the Graeme's "stupid teenager living with his parents" Version, based upon your recent Posts.


<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, I did not. I said I attempted to aim one at such an enemy vehicle, but did not get a clean line of fire, so didn't actually fire it. I also never said that dudes on the highway were firing automatic weapons at me. They appeared to be armed with standard, semi-automatic pistols and rifles. You are greatly exaggerating the case, as I said. Small shootouts like this happen with not-uncommon frequency. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's not how you described it. You really have to remeber your nut stories better, you know. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ July 29, 2004, 03:55: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

[quote]Originally posted by Stormbinder:

Quote:

ROFL. This is the lamest excuse I ever heard. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif You may take a cigar. Ever heard of auto-shoot cameras? Where you set up a few seconds timer and go "cheese"? Even cheapest soapbox cameras have it these days. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Or better just ask your parents to press a button, frankly I am starting to believe the Graeme's "stupid teenager living with his parents" Version, based upon your recent Posts.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So, Stormwhiner - do you get wood when insulting your obsession? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, but this still necessitates I have somebody or something *AIM* and *HOLD* the camera. They don't just hover in the air, you know.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Given that you never listen to anything I say anyway, it's clearly your memory that is at fault here.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I couldn't resist responding to this one, since it's the exact fallacy parodied by my signature :-)

It is a mistake to apply the mathematics of probability to existential questions. In this case, that's easily demonstrated by proposing the existence of a different god (who I shall call Frank) who is the real creator of the Universe, and whose will happens to be the exact opposite of the will we attribute to Jehovah. By making up an associated scripture that is more plausible and consistent than the Bible, I could even argue that Frank's "probability of existence" exceeds Jehovah's.

So now, what do we do? Avoid the risk of offending Jehovah, or do the exact opposite to avoid offending Frank?

Fire and brimstone arguments (with or without the reference to probability) are an attempt to garner converts by intimidation, and I think that most of the successful religions have used them in some form. And of course, no more than one distinct religion can be telling the truth.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Which brings up an interesting question about God's Will. Consider the following 2 Bible passages. Firstly, from Leviticus, a passage that unambiguously identifies homosexuality as a crime against God, and the penalty for said crime as death:
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Secondly, from Matthew, we have Jesus telling us just as clearly that there's no wriggling out of the law of the Old Testament just because He's shown up to redeem us:
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So then, is killing a homosexual evil? Or is it merely implementing God's Will? Or is the Bible wrong?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not knowing anything about God's nature or environment, it's hardly surprising that we can't fathom His motivation for any particular action. That in no way implies that said motivation doesn't exist, and certainly doesn't imply that the true motivation is recognizable in terms we can understand (such as boredom).

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Quite. Redefining the term "God" to mean something other than the popular conception (sentient being with an independant will, which includes the desire to be worshipped) is simply an attempt to dodge the issue of whether or not that popular conception is existant.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, but this still necessitates I have somebody or something *AIM* and *HOLD* the camera. They don't just hover in the air, you know.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Of course, I understand. I should reilize that puting the camera on the floor, and aiming it at your fictional T34 with the help of a book or two, is way too complecated for your IQ level. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif My appologies.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

Either a few of the fundamental laws of physics are wrong, we are sitting at a rediculously improbable (chance n/infinity = 0) point in history, the universe doesn't exit, or God (not necessarily of any specific form) does - I even have a proof for it:

Consider: Entropy and Conservation of energy, and the universe as it seems to exist:
1) Energy is always conserved
2) Entropy always increases
3) there is both energy and order in the universe as it exists today.
4) (1) implies that the energy of the universe (using the widest, most inclusive possible definition of the universe) must be of infinite age.
Justification: energy is conserved -> the energy that is somewhere at time X must also have been somewhere at time X-1. However, as X is an arbitrary varaible, mathematical induction applies; if energy exists now, it existed at now-1, now-2, now-3, ..., all the way back to now-infinity. Thus, the energy of the universe must be of infinite age.
5) (2) and (4) imply that one of the following is true: A) after an infinite amount of time, entropy should have reached a maximum, excluding order, and thus there should be no measureable order left in the energy of the universe. B) Entropy is on some form of infinitive, and the change in entropy is only measureable for some finite segment of the infinity, which we just happen to be in.
6) as (5a) contradicts (3), it must be false if (1), (2), and (3) are true. As (5b) has a probability of some finite number over an infinite number, it has a probability of 0. Thus, (5b) must be false if (1), (2), and (3) are true. Thus there is a contradiction among (1), (2), and (3).

Given the contradiction above, one of the following must be true:
1) We are at a probability 0 section of time.
2) There is no energy in the universe (a.k.a., the universe doesn't exist).
3) One of the fundamental laws of physicis (either conservation of energy or entropy) is false.
4) Some being which can ignore the laws of physics (God) exists.

Please, discuss.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I believe that none of the conservation laws are held to have operated at T=0 (the Big Bang)

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm going to go with 3. The "fundamental laws" of physics, as it is, is simply something that we've fabricated based on empirical observation. It is, by no means, inviolate: If empirical observation in the future refutes these laws as being incomplete, as has happened in the past, we'll acquire some new understanding of how things work.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I couldn't resist responding to this one, since it's the exact fallacy parodied by my signature :-)

It is a mistake to apply the mathematics of probability to existential questions. In this case, that's easily demonstrated by proposing the existence of a different god (who I shall call Frank) who is the real creator of the Universe, and whose will happens to be the exact opposite of the will we attribute to Jehovah. By making up an associated scripture that is more plausible and consistent than the Bible, I could even argue that Frank's "probability of existence" exceeds Jehovah's.

So now, what do we do? Avoid the risk of offending Jehovah, or do the exact opposite to avoid offending Frank?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">LOL. Good argument Zap. Also it reminds me of old existential discussion that we had several mounths ago. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Rarely.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What, on the floor? Then the only thing you're going to get a picture of is my feet! Besides, what exactly would you have me *DO* with these pictures? I'm not wasting the film just so I can mail you pictures of my feet.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The repeated elections of FDR inspired the 22nd Amendment. I wonder how long it'll take for the Bush Dynasty (Tyranny) to inspire a 28th Amendment (the anti-"hidden monarchy" amendment)? Hopefully not too long ...

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh, I dunno.....I mean, you can apply a 'certain' ammount of logical reasoning to man in the white robes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Lets take a look.

Example 1....God exists

You believe in him, live a cosmically short life of devotion and moderation then recieve a cosmically long afterlife in paradise.

You dont believe in him, live a cosmically short life of debauchery and recieve a cosmically long afterlife in eternal torment.

example 2.....God doesnt exist

You believe in him, live a cosmically short life in devotion and moderation then recieve quiet oblivion.

You dont believe in him, live a cosmically short life of debauchery and then recieve quiet oblivion.

If you want the best for yourself, then we all better get praying. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Spirokeat.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, but what manner of paradise is it? From the scriptures, we know that its climate is certainly more unpleasant than Hell. Heaven, after all, receives 50 times as much light from the Sun as we get here on Earth, which gives it a temperature of 525C. Hell, on the otherhand, can be no hotter than 445C, the temperature at which the lakes of brimstone would become a gas.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Heaven is undoubtedly lacking in said debauchery, which seems to make it sound like a very, very, boring place. I'm sure you're not going there for the scintillating company, either.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Live life as a total bore, die and be banished to oblivion. Great way to live. Pass.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sounds like a plan. Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow, we die.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think the winning deal seems to be to sell your soul to Satan. After all, this seems to be the sort of thing Satan theoretically happens to go for, and if you can't manage to even sell your soul to Satan, this begins to shed doubt on this entire theory. After all, you're going to Hell anyway.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

Compelling stuff there Norfy,

Lets add the additional premise that paradise/heaven is actualy one continual unending peaking orgasm.

Would that equate to pleasure or pain ?

Spiro.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">ROTFLMAO.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There's no difference. It's actually torment either way.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

Actually thinking about it

If most sensations, pleasure, pain, touch, taste etc are generated by physical sensory receptors and transfered to the mind/soul via specific neural pathways and nerve transmitors (or animal spirits depending on archaic, you wanna get).

Then should you die but continue on as a disembodied soul, you would no longer have those receptors and thus be unable to feel anything, except abstract conceptualisations. At that point, you probably wouldnt care about god or the devil.

Unless of course, you believe in the ressurection. which is one good reason not to be christian.

Spiro

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What, on the floor? Then the only thing you're going to get a picture of is my feet! Besides, what exactly would you have me *DO* with these pictures? I'm not wasting the film just so I can mail you pictures of my feet. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You are realy dumb norf. No insult, just frank observation. How about puting your camera 20 feet away? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Or 30 feet? That would be enough distance for the standard camera to show you, and several of your very own T34 tanks on top of each other. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ July 29, 2004, 09:48: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's worse than you think. Mood is caused & regulated by chemicals within the brain. No brain (you're a disembodied consciousness), no moods and emotions. It gets worse yet: no brain, no neurons. No neurons, no thoughts at all. Sounds like oblivion to me.

It's the fear of oblivion that causes people, even in the absence of religious teaching, to invent an afterlife, god(s), and all the associated trappings of the mystical and mythical. Humans have always feared the unknown, and what can be more unknown than oblivion? Humans also have an infinite capacity for self-deception. If you don't believe that, you've never seen a drug addict (i.e.: people in denial and unable to cope with reality), nor are you capable of enjoying a Hollywood movie (which require you to suspend disbelief, suspension of disbelief being self-deception).

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Last time I checked most signals from "physical sensory receptors" of our bodies were going directly into our brains through "neural pathways
. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif But according to your logic, after death the human will lack not only receptors, but pathways and even brain itself. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif At this point the question of your afterlife existense become rather moot, if you determined to operate on the same principles as during your lifetime, don't you agree? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, it's like the saying goes: Too much of a good thing, is an awesome thing. But too much of an awesome thing, is really bad, and dumb.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you'd ever actually seen a T34 (or any other tank), you know that 20-30 feet isn't hardly enough distance, unless you use a ultra-wide-angle lens, which isn't common on the el-cheapo point-n-click disposable cameras someone was mentioning. Oh, and you cannot fit one inside a basement, either. Too large, especially in height.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, well, obviously, Storm has never seen one, since he can't believe that anyone might actually come to own such a thing, not that it's a terribly monumental task for anyone with some money, given that you can BUY SUCH THINGS OFF OF THE INTERNET even now. He also has yet to address the fundamental problem of how the hell I'm supposed to focus the camera while it's lying on the ground, or get anything other than an extended shot of the floor from that position, or even how the hell I'm supposed to get this picture to him, not to mention why he should be worthy of this effort at all, given that I don't really care what a little child like him thinks.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Rarely. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, it's amazing how much one can accomplish thanks to the wonders of chronic insomnia. I can't imagine why anyone would want to get this cured, since you get SO much more done with your life when you can't sleep. This is why I have come to see that sleep is for weaklings.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I suppose he'd not believe that there's a guy here in U.S., a private citizen, that owns a MiG fighter jet (or SU, I've forgotten which model he got)? And not one of the Korean-war vintage things, either. A very modern one. It was on network TV news some months ago. Of course, it's been disarmed. But it can still go supersonic, not that the FAA allows him to fly it that fast over the U.S.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you'd ever actually seen a T34 (or any other tank), you know that 20-30 feet isn't hardly enough distance, unless you use a ultra-wide-angle lens, which isn't common on the el-cheapo point-n-click disposable cameras someone was mentioning. Oh, and you cannot fit one inside a basement, either. Too large, especially in height. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">First - I've seen plenty of tanks, including real T34s, several different models of them in fact. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif But based upon your words I am not sure you did. FYI the dimensions of T34 are 2.44m x 3.25 m (from the straigth front perspective). It not as huge as you seem to believe Arryn. In fact now that I think about it I even have the picture of me on top of T34 from about 1996 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif (but I will not claim that it was mine T34 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )


Second - 30 feets is more than enough distance to show it. If you have any doubts just take a camera, walk 30 feets and look into it. And while you are doing it keep in mind that you can turn camera 90 degree if you like. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif


Third, I assume that Norf sometimes take his fictional tank outside the basement. He told us stories how he love driving it all over the place.


I could add more but I think that will be enough. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ July 29, 2004, 10:34: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, well, obviously, Storm has never seen one, since he can't believe that anyone might actually come to own such a thing, not that it's a terribly monumental task for anyone with some money, given that you can BUY SUCH THINGS OFF OF THE INTERNET even now. He also has yet to address the fundamental problem of how the hell I'm supposed to focus the camera while it's lying on the ground, or get anything other than an extended shot of the floor from that position, or even how the hell I'm supposed to get this picture to him, not to mention why he should be worthy of this effort at all, given that I don't really care what a little child like him thinks. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">ROLF. Norf, unfortunately for you, I happen to be a military history buff, with particular interesst for WW2 weapons. And what more, my grand-father got a top State Award of the Soviet Union (Stalin's Premium) for designing very different oil filtering system for T34 during WW2. So please, don't tell me about T34 unless you want to show yourself even more stupid that you already did, and make me laugh harder that I am laughing as already. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

As for the rest of your photography troubles, as well as how can you make picture public, give me a break. 6 year old kid can handle such "challenging" tasks just fine.

[ July 29, 2004, 10:20: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Filthy Monists ! and material ones at that !

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

To be fair to Norfleet Storm

How can we be sure that he didnt lose limbs and or mobility in the war, perhaps he only has one eye and thus no depth perception. Perhaps he is in fact, sat on a velvet cushion with a dialing wand clutched in his teeth, tapping away at the keyboard.

Thus compounding the difficulty of taking a photo to new levels. Heck, he would have enough problems just getting to the store to buy a cheap *** camera, never mind the mountainous task of getting his T34 out of the garage, into the drive, camera 30 ft away, focussed, timer set, then Hop Hop Hop ! back over the drive, up onto the T34 and into a vogue type pose. hop Hop off, back to the camera before some savage steals it, T34 back in the garage, Hop Hop Hop ! over to the developers....etc etc etc...you see where I'm going with his ?

Problematical is all I can say.

Spiro

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I suppose he'd not believe that there's a guy here in U.S., a private citizen, that owns a MiG fighter jet (or SU, I've forgotten which model he got)? And not one of the Korean-war vintage things, either. A very modern one. It was on network TV news some months ago. Of course, it's been disarmed. But it can still go supersonic, not that the FAA allows him to fly it that fast over the U.S. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Perhaps the guy's name was Larry Ellison? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif He happened to be the CEQ of Oracle, I've worked in his company for 2 years. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif And of course I know that you can have such artifacts here in the USA. (as well as in other countries btw). It just that I don't believe Norfleet has anything to do with it, since as Graeme said his fictional character belong to mad max type of movies, not to the real world. But if you prefer to believe all his crazy stories that he keep telling about himself, that's your choice.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">ROFLOL!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

The picture that you have described brought tears to my eyes Spiro. I see your point clearly. Life can be indeed tough to poor old norf, when you put it this way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

/walks away sobing/

[ July 29, 2004, 10:40: Message edited by: Stormbinder ]

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">But surely if we accept that people somewhere do own vehicles of that nature albeit decomissioned ones, then what difference does it make if Norfleet has one or not?. Its not like hes trying to park it on your lawn ?

I propose, neither believing nor disbelieving and am quite sure I will have forgotten about this conversation in the next week or two, thus making ownership or non ownership moot. And if I have forgotten about it, well its tantamount to not having had it in the first place.

Spiro.