Re: Game Underway!
 

For the first turn, I always cut people some slack. But once the game gets underway, I am more brutal about forcing stales for non-responders.

I know that I had originally planned on hosting MWF evenings. However, I already realize the problems in doing that. When I go out of town on weekends, I usually leave on Friday. In fact, I am leaving tomorrow to go visit my daughter at the University of Oklahoma and therefore can't host the game Friday evening. I will be back Sunday and can host Sunday evening.

I also notice that djo put a suggestion on the COW site about hosting TTS instead of MWF. This seems like the right answer to me. Therefore, the hosting will be Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday eveings about 8-9 PM Mountain time.

The next turn will host this evening whether or not I get the turn file from shovah.

Re: Game Underway!
 

To all wyrms: Proposition 2 is open for voting over the next 24 hours.

Re: Game Underway!
 

i cant get the maofile to work

Re: Game Underway!
 

Read the previous posts in this thread to see how to do that. Basically, you download the attached file from this thread, rename it properly, and put it in the dominions/mod directory. I can't send it to you right now because I am at work on my lunch break.

Re: Game Underway!
 

h8 to tell u but im not good with files+ cant find zen 5.1+ dont no what number to connect to +we have guests atm

Re: Game Underway!
 

For the sake of simplicity, I'll just attach the correct mod file here. Right-click on the word "attachment" and choose Save As, or Save to disk, or whatever similar option your browser offers. Save it in the mods folder with the name *exactly* conceptbalance_complete_5_1.dm (you will have to remove the ".txt" from the end of the file - the forum won't accept an attachment that ends in .dm)

This is an email game, so there is no number to connect to.

Find your email from Panther with turn 1. Make a directory with any name you like for the game (I used CoW). Extract the files in Panther's email into that directory.

Start dom2 and play your turn. The game name will be whatever you named your directory.

Reply to Panther's email. Attach the mictlan.2h file from your game directory.

Your houseguests I cannot help with...

Re: Game Underway!
 

and the map...

Re: Game Underway!
 

It's Orania. It comes with the game. We're using a different .map file, but that doesn't matter except for the server.

Re: Game Underway!
 

this wil b alot of hassle all the emailing...

Re: Game Underway!
 

A server game would be ideal but it's only 3 times a week that you need to do any mailing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

Re: Game Underway!
 

but i am **** when it comes to files (too many files on my pc)

Re: Game Underway!
 

Having done both, I can assure you that server games are a much bigger hassle for the players. PBEM games are quite easy to do, as that is how the game was designed to be played by the devs. PBEM games are a hassle only the host.

As for myself, I don't plan on playing another server game ever again.

Re: Game Underway!
 

I've done both too and a properly set up server game is no more a hassle than a PBEM game, IMHO.

Re: Game Underway!
 

Shovah, you only need to take the one .trn file each turn and put it into the COW folder. Takes about fourteen seconds to uncompress and move, tops. Then, after you end your turn, take another six seconds to send The Panther your .h2 file. It adds a trivial amount of time to the process, and since you don't have to save all the .trn files (you can overwrite the old one with the new one) you don't even accumulate masses of files. In short, it's not a big deal.

Re: Game Underway!
 

Don't know if it will help, but I found Alneyan's multiplayer guide to be valuble for playing PBEM's. It seems alot simpler than server games to me, too. Here's the link:
web page

Re: Game Underway!
 

Well, like I said, if you have a decent server op then it's a snap. The server's I've played on had their own notification scripts too which emailed everybody to tell them the new turn had hosted. Then all you had to do was load the game, take your turn, and exit. Doesn't get much easier than that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

PBEM is easy too once you get the routine down.

Server vs PBEM
 

Actually, it is a lot more complicated than that, especially late game when turns can take an hour+ to do.

1. You must not accidently hit end turn when you first go into the server, or you will download a blank turn. If you are the last one to move, you have a stale. I can't possibly recall all the times this happened to me. You must always remember to hit the little "X" box instead of "End Turn".
2. You do your turn off-line and then you must upload it before the deadline. Since the deadline always changes (due to the fact that it is dependant on the last person who finished their turn), it can be hard to remember when the turn is due.
3. If you are the last to make your move, you frequently want to wait to the last minute so you do not get too much "time-creep". But if you wait too long, you have a stale.
4. And you need to check to see if there is a new turn up because the email notification does not always work correctly.
5. The ip address can change every time there is a crash.
6. The hosting deadlines can change significantly every time there is a crash.
7. Server games have been known to crash so bad that you cannot recover. This has happenned to me twice and to my son once. No PBEM game has ever went down this path for me.

Actually, most of these issues can be solved by a properly run server, which means NO QUICK HOST!!!! But the servers are rarely set up without the QH option.

I have had stales in EVERY SINGLE server game I have ever played. And I have had stales in EXACTLY ZERO PBEM games I have played. This is a lot of MP games for me (about 20, split approximately half server and half PBEM).

For the first 40 or so turns, both methods are about the same except that the server game can go a lot faster in most cases. But around turn 70 or so when the moves become very complicated and you have 100 messages to pour through, PBEM is far more flexible and forgiving, imho.

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

Which is why I'm rather fond of a server game using QH for the first 20 turns or so, then fixed hosting. As you say, it's nice to know when the turn is going to host, and not have to try and get the turn in at the last moment to keep it from creeping.

Oh, and I believe the server game can be set to automatically back up the game files before hosting, making it possible to recover from the corrupted game if need be.

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

Case closed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I could counter-point every single item on your list based on my personal experiences but you've already done that with your disclaimer quoted above. Really, it depends on the specific server and configuration settings. Making a blanket statement saying "all server games are horrendously inefficient and cumbersome!!" (in so many words) is rather unfair.

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

Fellow wyrms, we have our first crisis.

shovah is obviously not going to make the first move. This leaves me with two options:
1. Host the turn and force a stale. He will likely become AI fairly soon and we will then have a 16 player game. The nations who started next to Mictlan will have a huge advantage, especially if they invade early and kill his pretender with wyrm power before his Smoking Mirror gets enough buffs to survive in a world full of powerful fighting pretenders.
2. Try to find a sub. This will be extremely difficult since he did not take a wyrm pretender and therefore has no vote in Council.
3. Recruit a new player and start the game over on Sunday or Monday. Let the new player make a new pretender for Mictlan.

One thing to note is that I will be out of town on a camping trip starting tomorrow. After tonight, I will be unable to do any hosting until I get back home on Sunday.

Opinions? Right now, I do not plan of hosting the turn unless there is an outcry demanding it.

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

If it's a short-term sub, wyrm or not shouldn't be a problem. Alneyan could maybe even do it real quick-like. Nothing of great consequence is going to happen in the first couple turns anyway.
Well, aside from my brilliantly appropriate Robert Frost quote... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
If it would be a longer-term sub, it might as well be a replacement, in which case it's not a big deal to wait for the new Mictlaner to put together a pretender and restart the game.

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

What's shovah's intention? Does he have a specific problem he wants to solve, or does he want to bow out?

If he wants to solve whatever problem he's seeing, could he give a more detailed description of the problem? As in, several sentences (in the same post) telling us exactly what he tries and exactly what errors he sees? (Start with: are you running Windows? What files do you see in your "mods" and "maps" directories?)

I'd hate to have someone leave due to technical issues, but on the other hand, there has to be a lot of cooperation when solving these problems remotely.

If he's out, I vote for giving a permanent replacement a few days to submit a new pretender. Candidates might want to speak up now.

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

I agree that we should give shovah a chance to express whether he is in or out of this game now that he knows that this is a play-by-email-game.

If shovah is out, then I suggest that we find a replacement, but also RESTART the game so that the replacement can design his/her own pretender. We have not even finished turn 1, so no big deal.

Pasha

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

I'm down with this.

Shovah, speak up, lad! Give us details.

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

This morning, I resent him the turn file plus sent the mod file. He will have that when he gets home from school in England shortly.

I will be back Sunday. You folks can decide what to do while I am gone. If shovah decides to come alive, fine. If not, and we get a new player, then Alneyan has all the files for redoing the first turn, including loading the new pretender design on the COW site.

shovah - it's on you.

I tend to be quite intolerant of people who don't do what they say. I suppose that comes with age. Perhaps that was why I seemed a bit harsh on shovah in my post last night.

Panther

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

I'm with Panther - I mean, it was stated pretty early that it was going to be PBEM. And for someone to wait the week or two it took to get the game organized and started and then to start mentioning they're incompetent with files, don't like email, etc, etc....

Get a new player, I say.

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

Enjoy your trip.

I am also in favor of a restart, should shovah bow out.

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

im home, i havnt recieved anything in my email and i have tons of stuff comein out, if you want you could maybe give some1 control of me for first few turns and then make me ai as i have so much stuff to do now i probably wont have time (school tests, a few camps ect)

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

Ugh, I don't mind a restart so much, but I had a nice story about starting in "Silver Woods" instead of Vanheim. Better that we have dedicated players than my rambling prose, I spoze http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

Heh, I already wrote (and posted!) about my starting position. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif Maybe I should put a more obvious link to it. Do we have a page for writing about each turn?

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

We don't want an AI player so you're either in or we'll have to find a replacement.

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

replace me, sry

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

grumble grumble

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

We don't explicitly have one...I'd say, for now put it under a nation page (which some folks have already done). When I have time this weekend, I can maybe create a "Stories" page and link it on the front page.

Actually, anyone can do this if they want to. That's how wikis work!

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

Since shovah has bowed out, mictlan is available. From page one:

> Alternates/subs ... YC puffyn boron Archaeolept Naresh

Anyone interested? Speaking only for myself, I'd give one of those folks priority, but anyone else is welcome to express interest.

See the link in my sig for details, if you don't already know them.

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

I went ahead and made a new post - as folks not in the game already may not read a thread once it says "Game started"

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

I am in my daughters dorm at OU and was able to edit the post thread. I can check back in on Sunday when I take her back to the dorm to see if we have a new player.

Re: Server vs PBEM
 

This is no biggie. At least it did not happen after the game really got cooking.

Caelum available
 

If there's someone out there who wants to play but refuses to play Mictlan, I swap you -- I'll play Mictlan and you get Caelum.

Re: Caelum available
 

Woot! If I didn't already have Abyssia, I'd take that deal! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Caelum available
 

Okay, you win, twist my arm... er, necks?

Mictlan's fine with me if you want to keep Caelum, Zooko

(If I am Mictlan, I'd like to redesign to be a wyrm this time...)

Re: Caelum available
 

Hurray for puffyn!

And yes, we assumed any new Mictlan would want their own pretender.

Re: Caelum available
 

I'm actually equally interested in Caelum and Mictlan. I'm quite interested in not delaying people, so let's stick with what we've got -- I am Sak Of The Raptors and you are Whazzname of the Mictlans.

Re: Caelum available
 

I am Apep of Mictlan. I've sent Panther my pretender, so hopefully he will be able to start the game up soon.

Re: Caelum available
 

A friendly reminder: did you set a password on your Pretender? If you didn't, you may want to add one and send it back to Panther.

Panther should be back soon, so I would expect the game to start before long... Wait, I *am* the one starting the game. If you are reading this post soon after I've sent it, you should forward your Pretender to me Puffyn, and I will create the game right away (and forward the files to Panther).

Re: Caelum available
 

Alneyan:

I've taken to always setting passwords, so we should be good. I just sent you my pretender also, though at this point I fear we may have to wait until tomorrow for you to start things up...

Apep is a very patient wyrm.

Re: Caelum available
 

Hey - Thanks puffyn for filling in!

I will be heading to our nations capitol tomorrow for a 3 day business trip. I will be back on Wednesday night to host the second turn if everybody gets their first turn to me before then.

With any luck, I will host Turn 3 on Friday and Turn 4 on Sunday, which will then put us on a nice 3-turn per week schedule afterwards.

Re: Caelum available
 

Turns have been sent out. I hope I didnt make too many mistakes because I am in such a rush, heading to the airport and all this morn. I did have shoveh instead of Puffyn in my emails, but I did catch that and fixed it.

Re: Caelum available
 

Ack! I liked my former location better. ANd now I have to change my whole turn 1 story! grrr

Other than that, thanks to Puffyn for filling in and thanks to everybody else for efforts made to keep this thing afloat. Let's get it on!

Re: Caelum available
 

Haven't received anything this time ... could you please check if you mailed it to me @gmx.net ?

arralen

edit: .. it's gmx o.c. ...