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Re: Late Era Team Game
Ermor and Agartha are allies, as are Marignon and I. When we attacked Agartha, we attacked Ermor as well. They are as one nation to us.
And yes, we know where we are going. And Patala certainly has nothing to fear from us. -Pythium |
Re: Late Era Team Game
Ermor would hardly be interested in an NAP with me if I *weren't* considering attacking him, would he? Of *course* I'm considering attacking him, I essentially said as much myself.
But, you volunteered to be attacked I did not make big talk - I simply wished to express my opinion that for me to actually *eliminate* Patala, assuming I can do so, would be diplomatically unwise, therefore I offerred surrender terms which you may take at any time. Now, to the big talk: I didn't attack you, and I don't like unpredictable or suicidal people at my border - I just had a bad experience with a neighbor hurling himself futilely at me, resulting in his own death shortly therefater. So I don't want to eliminate someone at this stage, but I'm torn. You have no chance, Patala. Your pretender is a giant metal sissy, your elephants have proven themselves useless against my superior forces, and I can deal with any raiding force you can come up with using a single thuging atlantean priest. Your ally is similarly poorly equipped to oppose me. If you show the good sense to surrender now, I'll be reassurred that, if you attack me, it'll be a sensible decision and not a fit of pique. |
Re: Late Era Team Game
Well I don't suppose you'd want to be left out, after all you are my last neighbor *not* attacking. In related news, on my way down I'll be inflicting casualties on the armies of Pythium, Marignon, Atlantis and Bogarus and the best of their troops which survive will hopefully be starving and diseased so anyone who's concerned about the very large size Atlantis is *before* gaining a 15 death gem income partnered with the research strength of Bogarus might want to use my still kicking corpse as a distraction while it lasts. Or, you know, you could take over a couple no-income territories. Your choice.
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Re: Late Era Team Game
The Council of C'tis has concluded that Mictlan is a threat to this world and the next. C'tis will not have his allies be trampled on by fire-wielding halflings. Don't expect this to be an easy battle.
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Re: Late Era Team Game
Bring it, snake boy.
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Re: Late Era Team Game
Move closer dr P and I'll move all forces I have to stop you I think I can stop your jags and flags http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif not 1-1 but I'll just put everything I have in their path http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
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Re: Late Era Team Game
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The throne of bones will be awarded to the pretender most suited to enter the black gates, and we will not put ourself in the way should any other lesser God aspire to death. As to the reputed alliance between Atlantis and Bogarus we can assure you that it is only hearsay and false rumors. Not a single fish has been given our tent-owners and such break of etiquette is not easily forgotten, and we are a people of remarkable longevity (most of us can also remember why we went from one side to the other side of the cauldron. We are not like goldfish in that regard). The best of our troops take the fish from the weak, so starvation is of no concern to us. It only make the Teacher of Philosophy certain in his choice of servants. Diseased weaklings and mournful shall suffer for their lack of resolve. We even hire mercenaries to feed those intent on surviving. But fish tastes better, and the darkness billowing out from Ermor is a threat to all fish-eating peoples in the world. Enemy of Fish - Enemy of Man. Frusen En, Voice of Frysen |
Re: Late Era Team Game
We are pleased to report a victory against the monkeys on several fronts. His remaining force of elephants is about to be cut off and exterminated, and C'tis has wisely run away with his proverbial tail between his legs. His God cannot get home his capital before I siege it.
Given our successes thus far, we consider withdrawing our offer of surrender terms - but will let it stand a bit longer. |
Re: Late Era Team Game
C'tis has indeed retreated... for now...
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Re: Late Era Team Game
I'm going to stop you still if you move closer to my capitol
so let's see who's retreating next turn.. I have 19 elephants and some archers and just bought me a very expensive mage...and got some nice research going on.. I think some troops will not like it |
Re: Late Era Team Game
Pythium reports are in. Ermor is apparently sending several armies south in an attempt to relieve Agarthan lands of the scourge of Doctor Death. Agartha seems unable to defend itself without them. So be it then. The good Doctor commands the dead... they cannot fight against him. He will stop them in their tracks.
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Re: Late Era Team Game
The damned march North, South, East and West in numbers without end. Self styled Princes of Death spring like weeds in our path as death itself is loosed on the world. The throne of bones grows with each of you I consume, and think not that your dominion includes my subjects for my will is absolute. You shall all be my subjects eventually, even if you should win today. The patience of the grave is absolute as well.
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Re: Late Era Team Game
I was recommended by my fellow team member QM to try an abuse build pretender (PoD) to get a picture of how unbalanced things are.
I'm quite happy to agree that it is ridiculously powerful/useful. Baalz: Seems you have met other PoD's. I'm a bit curious how common they are, in this game, but particularly in games in general. I need me a nerf. If people are uncomfortable with revealing their gods just tell me an approximation of PoD percentage in MP games. I think these MP's are good for me and balance in general http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif |
Re: Late Era Team Game
Well, out of what, a couple hundred pretender chaises available there are probably a dozen to twenty that are almost always picked by experienced players in my experience. Out of those there are a handful that are *very* commonly used because they're seen as being much more powerful than the others. I'd say probably 30-40% of the time I fight an experienced player they've got one of the following:
Prince of Death Wyrm Cyclops some flavor of lich The reason these are so popular is because they're capable of expanding aggressively early with very little/no equipment/buffing, capably supporting/defending an early rush, keeping relevance into late game as you start adding buffs/equipment, and are fairly cheap. |
Re: Late Era Team Game
I have never seen this many PoDs in one game. This is only my second LA game ever, I normally shy away from it because of the freespawn nations.
My question: Is there something about LA that makes the PoD more appealing than normal? Granted I am using one, but this is the first MP game I have tried one, and it was for reasons beyond some overpowered chasis. |
Re: Late Era Team Game
Well, I think EA and to a lesser extent MA are more weighted towards sacreds and good blessings. PoD isn't usually a great choice for a bless strategy. I've encountered plenty of PoDs in both though...
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Re: Late Era Team Game
Well my enemy already knows my pretender and also the starspawns have build a castle next to him..
the real god is a cyclops |
Re: Late Era Team Game
I disagree that the PoD should be nerfed, because I don't think SC gods are grossly overpowered compared to bless-chassis gods (at least for the bless nations.) Rainbows and titans may also need boosting, as a class, but nerfing the PoD does nothing to help that problem.
The *other* SC chassis, which are seldom used, need to be made more powerful, rather than nerfing the prince of death, ***WYRM*** and cyclops. Possibilities: * Heat from hell or a natural fire shield for the Moloch? * The various dragons could have a decent base dominion strength. They are dragons, after all. * The shedu could have glamour. etc. P.S. - I don't have a PoD, I have a triple-bless oracle instead. |
Re: Late Era Team Game
Pythium's pretender is named Doctor Death. Want to take a wild guess what he is?
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Re: Late Era Team Game
It is easier to nerf a few than boost a hundred http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif and I'm more interested in making new stuff than altering old stuff.
I'm inclined to call my PoD overpowered since he is able to take innumerable provinces without risk of loosing his ability to take more. Flying, fear, (awe) and survivability through high stats is a bit overkillish. My crippled god is still as functional as he was in the beginning, much due to awe and fear. It bothers me. I like the fireshielded Moloch though. There is a new fireshield on appropriate units (seraph, ophanim etc, but not elementals and other sprites with a drawn fire). Actually I do like the occasional boost, but I can't see myself going through them all. --- Now, lets try another angle. What gods are used as bless-chassis? |
Re: Late Era Team Game
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Re: Late Era Team Game
Mostly watery ones http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
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Re: Late Era Team Game
Water and earth really are the most popular blesses. I'd say they get abused about equally, it's just there is a slightly wider range of pretenders to do water with. The other important distinction is that the earth ones also tend to be awake for SCing. The oracle is mostly just there because it's the easiest to duel bless with.
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Re: Late Era Team Game
ZOMG oh noes, someone could *win*! We can't have that.
Beware thou the terrible Nerf Bat, which comes in the night and strikes down the proud and the powerful. I'm much more concerned with balance between overall strategies (Supercombatant vs. Bless, for example,) than with balance among chassis choices. There is infinite room for cool powers, and more are always welcome - so if a given chassis never gets used, give it cool stuff until people want to play it. |
Re: Late Era Team Game
Yeah, a good bless is just as good as an awake pretender with the right sacreds (which is why you see blesses so often), and a lot of nations without sacreds really need the early province-taking boost to get resources into their capital. I know I was relying on my pretender this game to clear out the stuff around my capital early so I could start building troops...Marignon's starting army + one turn of recruits with only your capital's resources isn't a reliable turn 2 expansion force, and if you have to wait til turn 3 to get a second province you're pretty much sunk...I'd also vote for buffs vs nerfs. (Especially the production scale, I'm still quite in favor of upping the gold coefficient, I think it would help a lot and not make it such an obvious loser scale). Similarly upping dragon's base dom by a point or two would help them out a LOT in terms of competitive pricing. Other chassis would be more difficult to balance, but that's an easy start.
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Re: Late Era Team Game
I think I would find the game less fun if everything suddenly became super balanced. A lot of the fun for me is learning, over time, which pretenders are good SCs, which ones are good for which bless, which ones have some special ability that you might need for a certain strategy.
These are things you don't know when you first start playing the game, and it is really enlightening when you find them out. Now adding things to make less desirable pretenders into suddenly viable ones, that would be interesting. |
Re: Late Era Team Game
I wonder who dares put his SC against mictlans trip bless jags in the first 20 turns and probably even the 20 ones after that
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Re: Late Era Team Game
KO could look at the CBM (?) mod for pretenders and scales.. I liked it when I had a look at it in one game I played it really seems better balanced.
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Re: Late Era Team Game
While of course, all things being equal, boosts are preferable to nerfs, I think pretty much any reasonable plan of balance has to include some nerfs. If you look at the good options and bad options, most are relatively close together, but there are some outliers that are just exceptionally good or exceptionally bad. For those exceptionally powerful outliers, it just does not make sense to try to figure out a thematic way to bring everything to their level. In addition, if you want to bring some level of balance in a few strokes, it is much easer to do with nerfs. As KO has said, he'd rather be making new content than tweaking things, and as far as I'm concerned that probably makes for a better game too. With just a few nerfs, it's easy enough (in most cases) to come along behind boosting what's needed.
On a side note, the poor solar disc needs a fire shield much more than the moloch. |
Re: Late Era Team Game
Lets not take the PoD the way of the Vampire Queen though if you catch my drift.
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Re: Late Era Team Game
Just take away his Awe. It's the combo of Fear and Awe that makes them so awesome.
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Re: Late Era Team Game
But the awe just comes from dom9/10, right? That can't be taken away, at least not just from the PoD.
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Re: Late Era Team Game
Battle report: plains of Umidor (55)
The invading armies of Mictlan didn't heed the warnings of the righteous god of Patala and marched towards the Patalainian capitol, as promised the combined armies of Patala where awaiting them. In the east 2 groups of elephants (12 and 19) where arranged next to the groups of 100 atavi archers The army was led by indepent commanders under supervision of a bander commander. The Naga had sent 4 nagarishi to bless the battle with their presence. On the other side of the battle field a King of rain led 50 flagellants and 30-40 wild and terrible jaguar warriors. Clearly an army which would recieve a false blessing to enhance their weakish bodies. The patalan armies, entrenched and ready had the first stroke. Before the King of rain could say his false divine blessing four blade winds and 100 arrows rained down on mostly the flagellants killing half of them before they could get a twisted faith. After that the wretched king of rain blessed his remaining troops and they charged forth only to fall again to blade winds and archer fire. After 2 turns the naga blessed our army even more by staying bravely on the battlefield while they had been ordered to leave after bladewinds had been cast twice. All hail patala. |
Re: Late Era Team Game
A minor irritant, but we salute his pluck nonetheless!
We hope that he shows similar vigor when facing our actual army, rather than one of three raiding forces - of which the other two continue to maraud, unimpeded, through his western holdings. Furthermore, we extend a gracious invitation to his fine and shiny army to head northwards, where we may express our appreciation first-hand. |
Re: Late Era Team Game
accepted, i hope you do not mind we also pass this invitation to our ally C'tis and his 280 persons large army north east of my position http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
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Re: Late Era Team Game
KO if you read this there is a bug in the game, this turn (currently played) I just put my turn on save and exit, the game explicity says that i need to finish the game via end turn if I want it to be send (which is good, I didn't want it send yet) but when I look at the status page it's send none the less.
3 turns ago this got me into war with dr P. it's not good. |
Re: Late Era Team Game
Hmm, OK.
This is my perception of your grievances: You are saying that there is a faulty message atm. Currently you can not save game and exit without the next turn generating. Only by don't save and exit can you prevent the generation of a turn. You want the message to be correct and the mechanic to be changed. |
Re: Late Era Team Game
yes it would be nice not having to send the turn or redo it.
your perception is very sharp, you must have fishy eyes |
Re: Late Era Team Game
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Of course it is better to make more things cool, but I find it unlikely that I would be able to coolify all gods to the same level. When one god is empowered and coolified you will suddenly need to do the same to new gods, in an never ending race for COOL. This is called inflation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif It is my perception of almost every game I've played that sooner or later the creators fall for the lure of inflating what's cool or powerful. I'm actually proud to say that one of the first mages in the dominions, is still one of the most powerful, namely the Arch Theurg. True, cool =! powerful, but some believe that they are. I suspect even fewer would play the Mother of Monsters if she was cooler and ate population in a province http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. --- On the matter of blesses/SC's. What are your thoughts? |
Re: Late Era Team Game
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It was quite a while since I had a look at it, so it might take a look. More likely I'll ask for important CBM stuff from time to time. Balancing the game is also very much depending on my current activity in MP games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif |
Re: Late Era Team Game
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Re: Late Era Team Game
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If you quit without saving right after you start you can do your turn at home without connecting, and next time you connect the finished turn will upload. That way you don't have to finish your turn in one go. |
Re: Late Era Team Game
Actually, even simpler, and safer, is to exit after the turn downloads without even going into the turn.
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Re: Late Era Team Game
ehm nice solutions but I'd just prefer if everything worked as it should.. no offence KO http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
anyway if you think pplz should not try to take best setup for a MP game to try to win you are living in a fantasy world.. in SP you can RP in MP you spend half a year on a game so some results would be nice AND that means going into it as strong as you can. my point.. your view of playing the game is not right |
Re: Late Era Team Game
Of course it is right http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
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Re: Late Era Team Game
Here's how it works:
* If you "Save and Exit", the game engine makes a .2h file for you. * If you then log onto the server, it'll automatically send any .2h files you have. It's the second behavior that sometimes trips people up; you generally get used to it (not connecting to the server until you're really done with your turn,) but it causes enough headaches, especially for new players, that it may not be ideal. I'm going to be out of town Sat and Sun. Given the timer, I might not even miss a turn, but could we have an extension just in case? Now that my war has heated up I don't want to leave my armies hanging. |
Re: Late Era Team Game
Really the changes that need to be made to the other pretenders are not hundreds of changes. The human mage types should be geared better towards being a rainbow/bless chasis, and some of the Titan/Monster types should have their costs or cost to add a new path reduced.
As it stands now, if you want a decent bless, it is more cost effective to take the supercombatant who has the starting paths for the bless than it is to take a simple mage. If you try to build both equally, the supercombatant comes out ahead in dominion and scales compared to the mage all other things being equal, making choosing a mage pretender pointless except for rainbows, which in themselves can often be inefficient. Finally, alot of the pretenders are redundant. There is no reason to take them often times because there is a similar pretender who has more advantages. |
Re: Late Era Team Game
maybe the special abilities on pretenders should be more diverse and powerfull so decision is not just made on how you get certain paths you want cheapest.
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Re: Late Era Team Game
I find it hard NOT to power game in a setting in which you're trying to banish every other nation and their pretender gods to hell for the rest of eternity, kind of inspires a no-holds-barred attitude ;-)
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Re: Late Era Team Game
Personally, I would give all of the rainbow pretenders #magicboost 1 for all paths, and an (additional or expanded) utility ability.
This means that rainbow pretenders are flat-out-superior as *spellcasters*, but their blessing would cost the same as any other chassis. At present, there isn't a lot of call for spellcaster pretenders, but I think this would change (at least for certain nations with a strong military but minimal dependence on sacreds) if spellcasting on rainbow pretenders were simply a better deal. For the titans, I'd say that every one should have a potent, and useful, #onebattlespell. I put together a list at one point which QM is going over. All of this is a bit drastic for vanilla, though. The presence of the modding engine means we can test changes like this out and see what happens. |
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