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-   -   Did you know that? (Dominions trivia) (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=38392)

Soyweiser December 16th, 2008 07:02 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sector24 (Post 660565)
Isn't it a bug that -3 research = 1 RP but 0 research = 0 RP?
0 rp = 1 rp.
But the unit screen still lists this as 1 rp.
If you increase the rp, for example by a skull mentor, the 0 is increased to 9. And not the 10 you would expect from the unit screen.

MaxWilson December 16th, 2008 07:08 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
That doesn't sound like a bug to me. When the screen says "1 RP," you get one RP. When it says "9 RP," you get nine RP. The fact that the underlying calculation special-cases RP under zero is an obscure rule, not a bug.

It is, however, something useful to know. And I guess that's why you posted it here and not on the bug thread. :)

-Max

Dectilon December 16th, 2008 07:24 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Sometimes when you add a large stack of units to a commander you can exceed their command limit.

Example: I added 82 Mermidons to a commander with 80 command :)

Soyweiser December 16th, 2008 07:42 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxWilson (Post 660571)
It is, however, something useful to know. And I guess that's why you posted it here and not on the bug thread. :)
Your guess is wise, Mr Wilson.

MaxWilson December 17th, 2008 12:36 AM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
...you can gain experience stars in the middle of combat?

...globals can expire in the middle of combat too? For instance, if you kill the caster of Dark Skies, the sky will immediately brighten back to blue and your morale will go back up to its proper levels. I don't know if this applies to globals like Mechanical Militia and Fata Morgana, but I thought it was a nice touch. Good work, Johan!

-Max

JimMorrison December 17th, 2008 02:43 AM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
I'm confused by this RP mechanic.

Real RP = total paths + 2 + Magic scale effects ... right?

So a 1 path mage should have base RP of 3, Drain 3 is -2, so real RP would be 1 anyways....? How is it going to go negative? O.o

SlipperyJim December 17th, 2008 07:01 AM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Some mages (like the Horite Shaman) have penalties to research.

Wrana December 17th, 2008 08:00 AM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
And actual Drain penalty to research is moddable - previous version of CBM set it at 3, for -3 penalty at Drain 3.

Gandalf Parker December 17th, 2008 11:13 AM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
... you do not have to turn on a mod to play your turn.
Anytime Dom3 receives a turn it will automatically turn on any mod needed as long as that mod is in your mod directory. And automatically turn it off again when you finish.

You only need to turn on a mod (enable) to START a game with that mod. Such as a solo game or one you are hosting. OR to create a god using that mod so you can upload it to a game using that mod. But once the game is started you do not need to re-enable the mod to do your turn.

It is also possible (now, since the command was recently fixed) to create a desktop link which loads dom3 with a mod enabled. That way you can have two links for dom3. One which runs dom3 with the mod, and one that runs without the mod.

capnq December 17th, 2008 11:43 AM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dectilon (Post 660573)
Sometimes when you add a large stack of units to a commander you can exceed their command limit.

Example: I added 82 Mermidons to a commander with 80 command :)
Are you sure about that? Normally, when you assign a stack of units, any excess beyond the commander's capacity simply isn't assigned. Two of those Myrmidons shouldn't have moved from the garrison or commander where they were when you selected them.

lch December 17th, 2008 12:09 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnq (Post 660673)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dectilon (Post 660573)
Sometimes when you add a large stack of units to a commander you can exceed their command limit.

Example: I added 82 Mermidons to a commander with 80 command :)
Are you sure about that? Normally, when you assign a stack of units, any excess beyond the commander's capacity simply isn't assigned. Two of those Myrmidons shouldn't have moved from the garrison or commander where they were when you selected them.
As probably somebody else already wrote here before, you can give an item with a leader bonus to a commander and give more units to him than his unmodified limit is, then take the item back and he should keep the units.

Edi December 17th, 2008 04:32 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Regarding the research thing, seems like the mechanic is working as intended. All mages have a research value of 3 as base, + 1 per each magic path they have. Any intrinsic research penalty or bonus is applied after that and then the scale modifier from magic/drain and other external modifiers (research items etc).

This lead to a situation where the only units that can have negative research in drain dominion even theoretically are the ones who have a research penalty to begin with (Machaka Witch Doctor etc), and even that seems to be limited to a minimum of one if I understood it correctly.

Of course, if the negative research is taken into account so that it has to be negated fully before items are applied, that seems consistent too.

lch December 17th, 2008 04:49 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Yes, as said before, it seems that the mechanic is being applied correctly during hosting, but if I understood the original post correctly then the unit's info screen is showing it in a wrong way.

Soyweiser December 17th, 2008 08:40 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lch (Post 660755)
Yes, as said before, it seems that the mechanic is being applied correctly during hosting, but if I understood the original post correctly then the unit's info screen is showing it in a wrong way.
Yep, as a mage always adds at least 1 rp. The info screen will always show at least 1 rp. Even when the actual rp including modifiers is negative. Currently you cannot see if this is the case on the info screen.

I never thought it was a bug. Just an interesting feature.

archaeolept December 18th, 2008 03:48 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
It looks like forging is done either in order of unit ID, or reverse order of unit ID, randomly decided on each turn. So your lowest ID forger either is the first of your mages to forge, or the last, and you'll either beat that other guy trying to forge the boots of the planes, or you won't :D

good solution, Johan

lch December 18th, 2008 05:58 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
... or if you're really desperate for an artifact, you'll forge it twice with both your highest- and lowest-ID mage that can do so.

MaxWilson December 18th, 2008 10:35 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
...losing an eye to an Eye Shield does not count as damage for purposes of breaking Mirror Image?

-Max

Kristoffer O December 19th, 2008 06:07 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxWilson (Post 661084)
...losing an eye to an Eye Shield does not count as damage for purposes of breaking Mirror Image?

-Max
Of course not. It's just an eye popping out of its socket :) No real harm done!

lch December 19th, 2008 06:31 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Ah, I'd expected KO to do better than that. :) You could argue that a mirror image only goes down when you manage to strike an actual hit at an enemy, then you'd know which of the ones is not an illusion. The Eye Shield works passively (I assume that the vengeful spirit in it is invisible), all those mirror images are attacking the wearer and then stumble back with an eye gouged out simultaneously. No way telling the real one this way.

Tifone December 19th, 2008 06:39 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Well, you could see which one's eye actually falls to the ground and gets squashed under someone's foot. :D

Bleah :hurt:

MaxWilson December 19th, 2008 07:21 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lch (Post 661225)
Ah, I'd expected KO to do better than that. :) You could argue that a mirror image only goes down when you manage to strike an actual hit at an enemy, then you'd know which of the ones is not an illusion.
In that case, you'd expect area attacks like Fireball to not break mirror image, either. I think it's more like D&D mages: mirror image takes concentration to maintain, and getting hit disrupts your concentration. Eye Shield eyeloss is probably painless so it doesn't disrupt your concentration.

-Max

MaxWilson December 19th, 2008 07:24 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
...strength loss is permanent, and you can have negative Strength? In my game for this week, a custom province (from SemiRandom) had a bunch of R'lyeh-type creatures in it with ranged Steal Strength. I now have a whole squad of Ahiman Anakites, all of whome have Strength between -10 and -48. I haven't tested what happens if I try to besiege a castle with them. Actually the guy with -48 Strength should be really good at tearing down castle walls since your effectiveness scales with the square of your Strength. ;)

-Max

Dectilon December 19th, 2008 10:18 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnq (Post 660673)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dectilon (Post 660573)
Sometimes when you add a large stack of units to a commander you can exceed their command limit.

Example: I added 82 Mermidons to a commander with 80 command :)
Are you sure about that? Normally, when you assign a stack of units, any excess beyond the commander's capacity simply isn't assigned. Two of those Myrmidons shouldn't have moved from the garrison or commander where they were when you selected them.
I'm sure. In retrospect I should've taken a screen shot :/

MaxWilson December 19th, 2008 10:26 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
No, a screen shot would be irrelevant. It's known that you can do this, it's just surprising that you can do it accidentally (without adding and removing a command item). A screenshot wouldn't tell us anything that your words wouldn't.

Probably. I guess it's always possible the screenshot would reveal something we would otherwise overlook.

-Max

MaxWilson December 20th, 2008 03:18 AM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
...it can rain spontaneously, without a spell needing to be cast? In this case, there will be no Battlefield Enchantment icon in the corner. The only way to know it's raining is either 1.) notice the raindrop graphics, or 2.) see that your fire mages are mysteriously taking way too much fatigue.

-Max

Deadnature December 20th, 2008 04:58 AM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxWilson (Post 661271)
...it can rain spontaneously, without a spell needing to be cast? In this case, there will be no Battlefield Enchantment icon in the corner. The only way to know it's raining is either 1.) notice the raindrop graphics, or 2.) see that your fire mages are mysteriously taking way too much fatigue.

-Max
same for snow too...

lch December 20th, 2008 06:45 AM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
And for snow, you'll notice that your Water Elementals are suddenly Ice Elementals. :)

Provinces with high cold dominion don't have grass but only bare white ground. Maybe that's the case when it is snowing, too, can't remember.

chrispedersen December 20th, 2008 10:42 AM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
it is.

Now, what are the chances of rain or snow?

Gregstrom December 21st, 2008 06:30 AM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
My guess is that it's one weather check, and you get rain or snow depending on province temperature.

Is it known whether you can get storms as random weather?

JimMorrison December 21st, 2008 01:42 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregstrom (Post 661420)
My guess is that it's one weather check, and you get rain or snow depending on province temperature.

Is it known whether you can get storms as random weather?
I think I've seen them, on occasion (I watch WAY too many of my battles in SP....).

JimMorrison December 21st, 2008 01:44 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
..... while your normal units will fight successive battles with lost HP and reduced ammunition, PD is not tracked on a per unit basis, and so is full strength in each battle, if they fight more than once in a month.

Slobby December 24th, 2008 04:13 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Did you know that demons are unaffected by the dominion of MA C'tis? While there are no national blood mages for em, it might still be an interesting path to put on your pretender and then create an all demon army. Also Sirrush's, while not having the cold blooded tag, are immune, yet the scorpian king, another national sacred summon without the cold blooded tag, is not.

vfb December 24th, 2008 06:14 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
The Sirrush has swamp survival, which also gives immunity to C'tis miasma.

All demons and undead are unaffected by disease.

MaxWilson December 25th, 2008 07:29 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
...when Decaying units disappear into a puff of blood at the end of a battle, it's because they got Diseased? Diseased units which are decaying lose one hit point per combat round, even if they can regenerate. (Tested on Hydra Hatchlings. 25 HP... 24 HP... 23 HP... etc. Apparently it doesn't regenerate.) Normally regenerating creatures do not lose hit points to disease over time, but this appears to be an exception.

Have I also mentioned that Fear From the Horror Harmonica does not affect friendly units? The graphic hits them but they do not actually suffer Fear effects.

-Max

MaxWilson December 25th, 2008 07:47 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
...Blood Vengeance does NOT reflect Disintegrate? My guess is that this is because Disintegrate is 999 damage, which is a "special" number in Dom3. (For instance, attacks which cause 999 damage are not affected by Luck.) If so, other 999 damage attacks are probably also not affected by Blood Vengeance.

-Max

vfb December 25th, 2008 08:06 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Disintegrate got reflected when I tested it. You have to fail the save to take damage in order to have it reflect. You don't reflect damage that you don't take, if that makes any sense.

Code:
castspell: cnr96 spl405 (Disintegrate) vis0 x23 y15 spldmg999
vis 0 xvis 0
blastsqr: unr363 x23 y15 aoe0 dmg999 eff2 spc1082151040 as10186 al9
  affectvic vic364 hv0
hitunit 363 364 dmg999 spec1082151040 ba2
  spec_mr pen 13 mr 18 (unr 363 vic 364 dmg 2 eff 999)
damage shift negated 1007 pnts of dmg
hitunit 364 363 dmg1007 spec128 ba2
damage 1012 on Maker of Heroes, spec0x80 ba2

archaeolept December 25th, 2008 08:20 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
ah good to know - it seemed unthematic that disintegrate wouldn't be reflected.

MaxWilson December 25th, 2008 08:32 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vfb (Post 662129)
Disintegrate got reflected when I tested it. You have to fail the save to take damage in order to have it reflect. You don't reflect damage that you don't take, if that makes any sense.
Oh, okay. Sorry, my testing misled me. I dropped Kurgi into the middle of a battle and watched him reflect Fire Bolts, Incinerate, etc. back onto the caster, but Disintegrate always hit Kurgi. I guess you're right and it must have been just because Kurgi kept making his save. The debug log is always more reliable than empirical testing. :)

-Max

archaeolept December 26th, 2008 12:06 AM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
the resistance roll is made by the original caster, modified by the targets blood vengeance; so, it could be that the Disintegrate caster had a higher MR than the others, making it more likely for the spell not to reflect.

vfb December 26th, 2008 01:20 AM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
I omitted the first 4 casts of Disintegrate from the above log, sorry.

They look like this:

Code:
castspell: cnr96 spl405 (Disintegrate) vis0 x23 y15 spldmg999^M
vis 0 xvis 0^M
blastsqr: unr363 x23 y15 aoe0 dmg999 eff2 spc1082151040 as10186 al9^M
  affectvic vic364 hv0^M
hitunit 363 364 dmg999 spec1082151040 ba2^M
  spec_mr pen 13 mr 18 (unr 363 vic 364 dmg 2 eff 999)^M
  resisted^M
It's the Fallen Angel with MR18 passing the MR check against Disintegrate (cast by an Eye-of-the-Void wielding MR12 Maker of Heroes). The first resistance roll is made by the unit with Blood Vengeance. If it passes the check, nothing more happens, since there was no damage taken.

But when the unit with Blood Vengeance fails the MR check, then the Disintegrate caster still gets a chance to avoid the reflected damage, and if that happens, the BV unit dies:

Code:
castspell: cnr94 spl405 (Disintegrate) vis0 x23 y16 spldmg999
vis 0 xvis 0
blastsqr: unr316 x23 y16 aoe0 dmg999 eff2 spc1082151040 as10186 al9
  affectvic vic317 hv0
hitunit 316 317 dmg999 spec1082151040 ba2
  spec_mr pen 13 mr 18 (unr 316 vic 317 dmg 2 eff 999)
damage 996 on Angel of Fury, spec0x40805080(missile) ba2
The roll versus mr 12 does not show up in the log, but it's there because sometimes the damage reflection works and the Maker dies (my post above) and sometimes it doesn't and the Angel dies (this post).

I tested with:
Disintegrate caster = Maker of Ruins, Eye of the Void (pen+2, mr 12)
BV target unit = Angel of Fury, Flesh Ward (mr 18, bv 4)

chrispedersen December 26th, 2008 11:51 AM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
So you are saying there is a bug namely that if the target saves, the caster dies?

MaxWilson December 26th, 2008 02:14 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
No, vfb is saying that the caster is not at risk unless the target would have died. I.e. casting Disintegrate on a unit with Blood Vengeance +100 and MR 100 would not be risky even though it would be useless.

I wonder if this applies to normal melee damage too. (Maybe that explains why Kurgi has such low Prot.) There's a lot I don't understand about Blood Vengeance because I never play Blood nations.

-Max

MaxWilson January 1st, 2009 05:46 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
...Master Enslaving a blessed unit instantly changes the bless, in the middle of combat?

-Max

Lingchih January 2nd, 2009 07:33 AM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxWilson (Post 662194)

There's a lot I don't understand about Blood Vengeance because I never play Blood nations.

-Max
Yeah Max, you really need to play more blood nations. I shied away from them for years, but they are really powerful, and it's only a game, after all. They can be a pain, but it's really the way to go, late game, for a lot of nations.

MaxWilson January 2nd, 2009 01:06 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lingchih (Post 663363)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxWilson (Post 662194)

There's a lot I don't understand about Blood Vengeance because I never play Blood nations.

-Max
Yeah Max, you really need to play more blood nations. I shied away from them for years, but they are really powerful, and it's only a game, after all. They can be a pain, but it's really the way to go, late game, for a lot of nations.
A game which is specifically about being an evil, nasty, megolomaniacal god. I don't necessarily have problems with the RP aspect, I just love battlemages and hate gem-management (especially with the way the combat AI eats unnecessary gems), and the thought of having to have a gem carrier for each and every mage fills me with dread. The upkeep-free summons part is nice, though, so if I were to try a blood nation it would probably be Lanka for the Rakshasa Warriors and because they still have death magic (my favorite).

-Max

MaxWilson January 3rd, 2009 10:25 PM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
...elephants have 3 misc slots?

-Max

MaxWilson January 4th, 2009 12:52 AM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
...it is possible to get two afflictions off the same wound? I just had a priest get Never-healing Wound and Feebleminded off of one little red "4".

-Max

chrispedersen January 4th, 2009 01:06 AM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxWilson (Post 663805)
...it is possible to get two afflictions off the same wound? I just had a priest get Never-healing Wound and Feebleminded off of one little red "4".

-Max
I have seen the same thing.

While with normal wounds I don't think its possible, there are plenty of circumstances that will cause this.

For example.. Bow of Botulf, causes feeblemind - but the arrow causes damage, and if it causes damage you an also get an affliction from the damage. Its possible to rack up 2-3 afflictions simultaneously this way.

cleveland January 4th, 2009 01:27 AM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
Is it possible he was hit twice by the same unit, and you saw two "4"s on top of each other? Two weapons? Quickness, perhaps? How many hp did he have after the attack?

MaxWilson January 4th, 2009 02:40 AM
Re: Did you know that? (Dominions trivia)
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleveland (Post 663812)
Is it possible he was hit twice by the same unit, and you saw two "4"s on top of each other? Two weapons? Quickness, perhaps? How many hp did he have after the attack?
It was an arrow. Someone in that battle had a Bow of War, but there weren't any Bows of Botulf that I could see. Also, I only saw one arrow incoming, so I don't think it's two 4's superimposed. He had 31 out of 35 HP left after that arrow hit.

It's turn #7 of the battle in 508, attached.

-Max


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