Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

So, nobody can spend 1 or 2 turns to get rid of me? Come on! :p

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Well, I was working on that until I was distracted by other matters. :) Now I'm not really sure when I'll get to your last fort in the north.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Val, feel free to continue your crusade against Ctis, I don't mind waiting a bit more before you engage me. :)

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

I know I said I am normally a fast player and I am. But I have my wife's parents over for Thanksgiving (a big U.S. holiday) and I still have to work today. Could we do a 24 hour extension?

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

No problem; hosting has been delayed until 7:10 GMT Friday.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

I am having internet connection problems again. I can send my turn from work tomorrow, I just need a 3 hour delay, so the game doesn't host before I get there.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

I added 6 hours. New hosting time is 13:10 GMT Friday.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Didn't need it after all, internet working again.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Sorry, but I'm afraid I can't do that. :) Annoying that Fire King escaped, though. I went to a lot of trouble to get him. Bad luck that he respawned right near the edge of the battlefield after being killed. :mad:

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Ouch, that's a loooot of thugs. Need delay - 24h for start, maybe more later.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Ok, I postponed hosting. The llamaserver isn't responding at the moment but I'll have a chance to check before the original hosting time to see if the request took (hopefully it will be working by then).

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Well, at this point it's obvious that I can't stop Vanheim. I am just going to keep losing ground slowly, which will increase his gem and gold advantage more and more. Is everybody else content with letting Vanheim win?

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Another 24h delay please.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Ok, hosting postponed until 7:35 GMT Thursday.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

well you would have a had a lot better chance if you hadn't foolishly decided to attack me just out of spite.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

I don't do things out of spite (although I made it sound that way :)). I quickly and easily acquired some land which was supposed to give me a better chance. Think where I would be now without that.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Sorry, but I'm going to need to postpone hosting another day.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Seriously, what do others think? I am considering conceding to Vanheim. Do you want to try to do something or do you prefer ending the game?

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

I just started in this game - I'm not going to concede anytime soon.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

I hope you don't concede, Psycho. All I have done is raid - I haven't won a single battle and I haven't taken a single one of your forts. By attacking Mictlan you chose an interesting strategy - one that has held your province count even and netted you two forts while I launched my attack. Though I wonder if you might have been better off staying at peace with Mictlan and devoting those resources towards me. You certainly have the tools to kill my thugs.

As I said earlier, the one thing separating us was GoNB - gems, research, etc, were all comparable. GoNB is no small thing but let's face it: in a fair fight you are likely to defeat me. GoNB certainly gave me an edge but not as much as if we were equally good players.

As SciencePro mentioned, I don't think other nations have given up. It's understandable you'd want help against me but if the end result is you take my place, then the calculation becomes which nation and which player would I rather face in the end? I know what my answer would be.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

This is the end war. Nobody else has a shred of a chance of winning the game (SciencePro would have had a small chance if he joined me back then), I can't believe anyone thinks otherwise. You don't need to take forts, you are winning the numbers game. Raiding and dom push are winning the game for you. Eventually you'll be able to take forts as well without hassle. Even though my defeat is many turns away, if I feel it is certain, I will rather concede than play all those turns needlessly. And stop being so modest about yourself - you are an excellent player, probably the best I fought so far.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

I'm not sure if I agree with your assessment (and, more importantly, at least one other player doesn't) but I see what you're saying. But if that's the case, then the role of other nations is to play kingmaker - it doesn't really matter what side they choose as it won't win them the game.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

it seems to me that the only point in attacking me was to "prove" that only vanheim can win and convince us to quit.

It won't work.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

What I am saying is act now if you are interested in prolonging the game. If the tables switch and I become the first runner, then by all means everyone attack me. Don't play kingmaker - always attack the one currently winning the game no matter who he is. That is all.

I understand why you say you don't agree with my assessment. :) After all this is a game of diplomacy as much as of skill. The one other player who doesn't agree with my assessment is deluding himself.

Absolutely not. I already said what the point was there. I still hope I can win, but it's mostly wishful thinking. You cannot win by any means. Still, that's not a reason to stop playing. I am not trying to convince anyone to quit, but rather to act.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Okay well then lets do more playing and less talking then.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

I am doing my playing the best I can. Talking doesn't hurt it. And talking of playing, I need a 24h delay.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

But if there's no chance of winning why would anyone want to prolong the game? I understand the idea of playing it through for the sake of the game, but to keep prolonging it by one dogpile after another doesn't seem very fun. Better to spend one's time joining a new game.

Eventually someone comes out of those fights with enough power to take on everyone else. So then everyone did play kingmaker; they just weren't sure going into the cycle of dogpiles who that would be. And of course I think you figure you could pull that off in this case. :)

Ok, hosting has been postponed 24 hours.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

I understand your point of view. But, if people who realized they can't win the game anymore just stopped playing and went on to join a new game, that would create unfun games with massive numbers of stalers and AIs. The other solution is help the one winning win even faster, so you could go on to a new game. Both these scenarios seem much more unfun than dogpiling the strongest. Besides, what's unfun in dogpiles? :)

In dominions everyone is always playing kingmaker in some sense. That can't be avoided. For me, at least, it's more fun when it's done to create a balance of power, rather than to promote a chosen player/nation.

I certainly hope I could pull it off. So could you.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

I definitely wouldn't advocate staling/AI but I think many times there are other choices. For instance, in the first Cripple Fight game Meglobob and I fought a long war - it was a fun 1 vs 1 fight but largely irrelevant as more powerful nations decided the game winner. I don't really feel we had a responsibility to stop our war and dogpile the leader(s) but some might disagree and say we should have done exactly that. I think there's a responsibility to the game but not an obligation to proceed with a certain course of action.

Well, I guess that all depends on which side you're on. As I recall Executor wasn't too fond of his experiences with them. ;)

That's an interesting point but I have to admit if someone has been a good ally but played a better game, such that they are a leading nation and I am out of the running, I would hesitate to turn on them. If I weren't giving myself a chance to win but just helping a third nation get the win I doubt I would do so (If the third nation has also been my enemy then the decision is easy :)).

Hmm, so maybe it's better to be the second ranking power so that you can capitalize on such a situation than it is to be the leader who gets dogpiled? Guess I should have thought of that before casting GoNB. :)

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Yes, that is also a nice option. I don't know the exact game situation, so I can't say what I would do, but if my nation was irrelevant in the big picture, it could be fun to pursue a private little war against a good opponent.

Haha, yes I remember some of his frustrations. But, there were really some over the top situations with him. He was dogpiled by 3-4 nations at times when he wasn't near to being the game leader.

Well of course there are different positions on the matter. I stated mine, but I respect others as well. I guess it's situational. I try to keep in mind that this is not a team game and that playing it as a team may be unfair to other players who didn't have a team of their own.

It proved not to be the case in this game, but it most often is. Keep that in mind for your future games. ;) Also, there's the Sun Tzu's principle - try to appear weak when you are in fact strong. That was much easier done with gem gens. Graphs off would help as well.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Bah, I just keep making one error after another. I was thinking last night over my nearly done turn - should I take the safe path and leave most of the job to Ctis or should I try to annihilate the whole army by myself. I knew a thug in the army could be my doom, but then I though "Fortune favours the bold". Yeah, right. :doh:

Well at least Ctis knew what he was doing. One of your armies is gone, although it doesn't seem like a big dent in the army graph. And Hrimmner, the most beloved hero of the Van, has gone to Valhalla. May others follow him shortly. :)

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Ha! Yeah, I was using the same "fortune favors the bold" thinking. As you know, I got lucky storming one of C'tis' forts earlier so I figured how could my luck not hold up? But it appears that while fortune may favor the bold it doesn't favor the stupid. Let the roll call begin:

* I used an insufficient force to storm a fort that I knew was strongly defended.

* Though I knew it was strongly defended I didn't know the details of what was waiting inside and couldn't be bothered to send in a test force to check things out.

* I also couldn't be bothered to guard my only province to retreat to (why would I need a province to retreat to - what could possibly go wrong?).

* I neglected to give my F1 dwarf a skull of fire so he couldn't cast flaming arrows (this is one of my favorites).

* I assigned the valiant Hrimmner to cast mistform *after* I had already cast fog warriors. While a great warrior, Hrimmner doesn't make the best decisions and promptly cast Thunder Ward, sending his fatigue up to 75. By the time he engaged the AQ his fatigue was at 98 (!).

The AQ's attack did weaken me by killing a lot of troops (skinshifters without a MR boost don't fare well against the Aegis) and causing my fog warriors caster to burn through all 8 A gems (no fog warriors for the storming attempt). But even if I hadn't lost those forces and actually had flaming arrows I think I would have lost to C'tis ... well unless I got lucky. :rolleyes:

The worst loss wasn't the troops but the cap only mages - I only get so many of those per game so each vanadrott/dwarf is valuable. And the magic items - you'll have to ask C'tis for your Aegis back.

The good news is sometime soon you can expect to see Hrimmner again in his new, higher HP undead form. :)

Anyway, nice job yandav. I didn't really want to attack that fort until you mentioned it and I'm not inclined to try again soon. :hurt:

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

I saw your army two turns ago when Hrimmner didn't arrive yet and the dwarf was without the skull. But I figured you'll bring it in, so I expected flaming arrows.

That was some bad scripting on your part, but you got extremely lucky with Hrimmner, since he managed to hit the AQ with his first strike and bring mistform and mirror image down.

Also, on turn 8 of the battle, Hrimmner should have died to aegis when he lost a MR roll, but instead lost only 15 hp and stayed alive. That is probably a bug, since he lost the amount of hp he would have normally (without heroic obesity). So, go figure my luck in this game.

I don't know. His main advantages were the mirror image, stealth and high defence. He will lose all of those. I would bother with calling him back. Mummies are underwhelming.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Definitely; that's what I couldn't believe - that he scored a hit with that fatigue level.

I didn't notice that. I thought the Aegis would work like soul slay - 999 damage. But if in fact heroic ability HP increases save you I kind of like it - it would be a nice added perk of the heroic ability.

Yeah, mummies aren't that great, especially because they'll disease your own units if you mix them with your armies, but I thought it might be worth it because the heroic obesity would give the mummy a decent amount of HP.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

It does work like soul slay. In fact, the debug logs says 990 points of damage to the vanadrot. Oh, well.

Can I have my standard 24h hour delay, please.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Hosting postponed. We are slackers. :) Though you ask for the delays I usually submit my turn later than you. It would be good if we could speed things up a bit for the sake of the other players...

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Sorry, but I am not in a position to be able to do my turns quickly. Fighting a losing war where you still have a chance to pull it off is the worst scenario time-wise. In fact, I must ask for another 24h extension.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Understood. I wanted to keep the game moving quickly throughout but at this crucial stage it's even more important everyone have time to do their turns properly. But as game admin I at least should be doing a better job of getting my turns in more quickly so I'll work on that. Hosting postponed 24 hours.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

I unexpectedly went on a trip for the weekend. I'll be away from my computer until tomorrow evening. It would be nice to have 48h delay.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

sigh, i know that delays are necessary sometimes but this game is really going in slow-mo

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Sorry about that. The delay Psycho just asked for was a different situation than the recent postponements the two of us have asked for, since he was away for the weekend. But aside from this we have been on a slow pace. As I mentioned above, I need to pick up the pace myself but Psycho has indicated that he can realistically only manage a 72 hour pace. Not really sure what to do.

Having said that, I've added 48 hours to the hosting.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Well, if you'd prefer I can try to find a sub. I just don't know how any sub would be able to stay alive for more than a few turns, especially if doing their turns in 48h.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

No, I don't want that. It's a tough situation when you reach the late game balancing between people you have lengthy turns and others who don't. How about we go with 72 hours during the week (but stick with 72 and not go to a fourth day) and try to get turns done in 48 hours over weekend?

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

I can't promise anything. I am doing my turns as fast as I can. I can only be less thorough, but then I might as well concede now.

Suggestion to people with more time: join more games.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

The Aegis does a death attack, just the same as soul slay. However, a dominions style death attack is nothing more then an absurd amount of damage, namely a base damage of 999. The actual damage will very from this amount based on DRN rolls from both sides.

This leads to several interesting details. Though improbably, it is possible for a DNR roll to decrease this damage to a survivable level. Since it is also simply just a lot of damage, it also means that units with a second forms may be able to survive the attack.

If the a unit took only 15 points of damage while attacking you, it is more likely that they succeeded on the MR check versus the Medusa effect and instead took damage from another effect, such as charged body, which is auto-cast on any unit wearing copper plate.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Yes, I know about this. I once saw a feebleminded sphinx with 1400 hp survive a soul slay and lose around 1000 hp. But, here the debug log actually said 990 damage, so that's it.

There was no other effect that could have made damage to the Vanadrott. He had all possible resistances and the only other damage dealing thingy on my AQ was a single lightning swarm attack.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Well, that was certainly a fiasco. You taking GoNB bounty was bad ... but expected. With Mother Oak, your natural N income and those forest provinces I expected you to take it a long time ago. But it's the little things that get me: of all the commanders in that province your vampire assassin had to target my S random spectre, me not assigning bodyguards and forgetting to script returning on the aforementioned spectre (though I nicely gave him the gems for it), losing a thug to harpies, etc. Really just a bad turn. :sick:

On the bright side, this makes clear to all nations who the real threat in this game is. :)

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Bah, with GoNB I only managed to equal our incomes and you have ~20 turns of accumulated income. Research was the problem in taking it sooner.

You had many commanders in the province? I figured you gatewayed troops in with the specter and had at most a few thugs teleporting from there who therefore couldn't get targeted. Finally some luck for me then.

You didn't lose a thug to harpies (to my great dismay), he managed to retreat. You did lose Ganglere, though, so my curse upon your thugs may be starting to fulfill. You had some bad luck this turn, but nothing mayor. I still lost more since the beginning of the war and I pull in less money and gems, not to speak of blood slaves. How on earth can you afford to spam those dark citadels around?

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Sorry guys, I am going to need another 24h.

Re: Momentum 2 - Running
 

Ok, hosting postponed.

I do have the advantage of the accumulate income (though I'm not sure I've capitalized very well on that) but you have a 700 gold income advantage now and since we take turns exchanging provinces once you take back the ones I've raided recently your strong dominion in those provinces will push your income far ahead of mine.

I had enough commanders that a single assassin managing to target my spectre was not too likely. But the really frustrating thing is that I forgot to script returning.

That's right, poor Ganglere. Stupid life for a life. :mad:

A better question is how did you get enough blood slaves for that army of vampire lords you've got. :)