Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

The first CTCS 40mm system has been turned over to the Brits. It appears the early data on the performance of the ammo was pretty much on the mark. Also loading process is shown in the below ref as well which to this point I don't recall seeing before.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march..._32203161.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

I've been tracking this for a long time now as closely as possible, now that basically we're starting to get both really good artist renderings and pictures which will hopefully lead to better Icons and data for making these systems work in the game.

Attachment 14141

So next we have JANE's take on the delivery to the UK of the first production CTCS 40mm which gives us the following...
1. Excellent rendering of the weapon itself.
2. A really good and updated picture of the UK AJAX
3. An update that the "mirror" French JAGUAR is still on track.
http://www.janes.com/article/59010/u...-cannon-system

Remember this is a joint effort between the UK and France.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

You really think so...

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

The photo of the Ajax in the game is as good as it gets right now and anything to do with the EBRC or the EBMR is REALLY thin.

When they finally roll those out they will go into the game

Don

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

To the joint effort-yes I've already posted a couple of articles on this. Also yes, way to soon for the game. Just pointing out the fact that we're getting some early confirmation of weapon, ammo performance and the likely configuration of the AJAX. The French JAGUAR is still in the artist conception phase as far as I know.

Regards,
Pat

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Some nice pictures and details for the AJAX variants here: http://www.generaldynamics.uk.com/AJAX/image&video.html

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

I'm with Don here. We've been burned too many times by "what if" systems. One of WinSPMBTs major advantages over most tactical games is realistic TO&E data over a period of time. Sure lots of games have great data for a very limited period (the various WW III Fulda Gap games out there) but none covers WW II to present.

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

1930 to present when both games are looked at together............. 86 years and counting

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

This next should clear up the "joint" program issue from the preceding posts. I would like to further just clear up a doctrine issue concerning the French and UK in the realm of APC's. Simply the shift has occurred both with UK that had relied more on wheeled types than tracked, where France has gone the other direction. The last serious wheeled APC for the UK was with it's involvement with Germany and Netherlands in the BOXER Program. The UK after it's withdrawal would soon start the FRES-SV Program which suffered from many issues but, was being developed as a tracked vehicle. Anyway that kept Don and I busy for quite a while as I recall. Here's your story and a little background on the FRES-SV as well.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...system-4847154
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...ntracts-01130/
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/fres/
http://www.armyrecognition.com/unite...ations_uk.html


Regards,
Pat
:capt:

P.S.
Yes still tracking FRES-SV Program for about 8yrs. It might make it in before 2025!?! :rolleyes:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

FRES has been one of the largest British MOD disasters of recent times (not a small thing to say). To be fair it was complicated by large scale UK involvement in Afghanistan and making any resulting vehicle survivable when hit by a mine or large IED.

So Ajax ends up about 40 tons (?) meaning A) it cannot be transported by air except, perhaps by the RAF C17 Globemaster aircraft(?) Anyone ??? and B) Ajax is roughly the same size as Warrior 2 will be, with the same main weapon system. Can UK afford two such similar sized AFV's ...

Even if the C17 can carry the Ajax, the RAF has a limited number of them. FRES was meant to be relatively easy to deploy and air transportable. The British Army wants 8x8 vehicles for the new Strike Brigades, but where to find the money for them even if they are largely 'off the shelf' overseas vehicles...

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Don,
Should have some in here already on the USA AMPV but, the below is the newest I have. In a nutshell they're in the prototype building stage. If the below gets resolved expect this program to be fast tracked besides, the Philippine Army will modify every M113 we can send and we've been sending them and yes, they've been modifying them. These are weeks or less old from my files...
https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/R43240.pdf
http://insidedefense.com/insider/amp...tion-explained
http://gpsworld.com/kvh-delivers-tac...ew-ampv-fleet/

Again sorry I missed the question in the SP/SPAA Thread. :D

I almost feel like I should do another ever popular "smilie" story-you have to admit it's been awhile but, I have to go to bed!?! :vroom:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Ahh the M113 the tracked, sort of armored, version of the jeep.

I'd like to, but don't expect, the Army to keep the same versatile, mobile, simple, roomy (for it size) basic design. But no, they'll cross it with a Bradley thus making it unsuitable for vast number of useful variants that keep the M113 going.

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Well......there are already in the new upgrade, I guess we'll see how close they are over time

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1460032183

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Pat you did good to mention this because when you did I went in to check something and discovered that I had not as yet entered the SP mortar version into the OOB's, so I did.....then I fired up the game to check them and found instead of a green camo one I was seeing the winter one which is the next one on the list......so I went back and checked and everything was perfect in MOBHack but it was out by one in the game....checking the code has not yet reveiled the problem but I have discovered its bigger than I thought so without thatwe would have probably missed it until likely 5 minutes after someone else looked at it and wondered why they were getting winter Icon in August

So the release is on hold again until this gets sorted out...my job right now is to find the boundaries then work inward

So in a back hand kind of way I thank you .....it saves us a lot of aggravation to find things like this before everyone else but this one's turning into a bit of a nightmare and without you posting this I would likely have missed it:doh:

Don

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

crisis averted.........problem found and solved

..but I would have missed it if I hadn't checked that SP mortar

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

It is after all what I do, even if by accident!?! Sort of like the "Rabbit Hole" in reverse. Those :censor: :tur: tanks are coming to mind right about now-again!! Anyway saves me some typing (OK lots of...) on the AMPV that you've now got it in the game already-Thanks! Much easier to just track dates. If only all of it could be that easy!

Regards,
Pat
Ohhh Yeeeaahhh :capt:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Some things I hope to accomplish for the next patch in this area. Some I've been tracking for awhile now...

Denmark: The most ambitious APC competition has just ended along the anticipated result of tracked versus wheeled based on how the competition was setup.
http://www.janes.com/article/51105/d...-artillery-buy

But just hot off the presses...
http://www.janes.com/article/59596/d...ry-procurement

INDONESIA: Now for something a little different on a very versatile platform that has performed better than oridginally thought.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/janua..._12601161.html

RUSSIA: Unless we give defensive points on vehicles for engine location :rolleyes:, I can't justify the slot being wasted on the next. The only other change is rear access for the troops compared to the "base" unit mentioned we got in the game about 3 years ago now.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march..._32403162.html

JAPAN: They are getting ready for a major upgrade to their AAV's.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april..._30804163.html

USA: An interesting change in philosophy but, one I can understand given they'll be around for quite some time.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april..._40704164.html

We've gone around the world so this should be good for now. Have a great night/or day!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

I would think the fact Bradleys have racked up more armour kills than the Abrams might have something to do with it.

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Well ... there are a LOT more Bradleys then Abrams, and since they're capable of defeating tanks with TOW ATGMs it sort of make sense they'd have more kills.

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

I think that Armata IFV chassis has the same protection of the MBT but in the game it's not

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Tracking these closely...

First good data look at the T-15 BMP with update.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april..._52504162.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi...res_video.html

BOOMERANG update Don and I have been watching this one for years now. There at one point it seemed like this would be fielded much sooner but, due to economic and technical issues it didn't get off the ground and was in danger of being canceled. This spawned the BTR-82A which is probably Russia's best APC in the field.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april..._12404163.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi...fication_.html

Just reading my daily newspapers. ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

It is important to be watchful of the the words written into the references used in equipment. I see a growing excitement over certain Russian equipment in this case the T-15 ARMATA APC/IFV. The words that seem to be passed over by some readers in these refs posted are "...based upon..." which by definition is the same "as modified from" etc. etc. The most obvious difference between the T-15 and the T-14 ARMATA MBT is in the engine placement which is front mounted on the T-15 and rear mounted on the T-14 MBT. There will be armor differences as well which are well covered in what we have already available to us on the web. It should be further noted that the T-15 WILL NOT be the main APC/IFV of the Russian Army but will be used instead by more specialized troops. That distinction will fall to the Kurganets-25 and our "old friend" the Boomerang, now more clearly defined as the BUMERANG K-16 APC and K-17 IFV. This discussion would also cover Israels NAMER. Which is about to receive in typical Israeli secretive fashion, a new companion APC/IFV, the EITAN 8x8 which is a major departure from it's normal "tracked armor" frame of mind. They've successfully kept this vehicle "under wraps" obviously for sometime. From what I have thus far, we could be looking at one of, if not, the most advanced and protected APC's out there. Again look at the embolden word in the last sentence. The JANE'S ref I believe was the first to note the EITAN which is included below.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march...g_vehicle.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi...res_video.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/augus..._10208162.html
http://www.janes.com/article/62755/i...st-wheeled-apc
http://www.defence24.com/423491,eita...in-advantages#

It would be my hope that we "slow down" just a bit and let the information flow. There is enough equipment that is out there NOW that we don't even have in the game or for that matter has even appeared in any of the threads as of yet.

Trust me I have many files on my system to cover the above. All I'll say is "when I can I will" I just can't do it now and it kills me to know this could be my third year that I probably can't submit to the Patch Thread even if only to be a PITA to Don. ;)

I just feel sometimes we're rushing ahead to meet "certain expectations" only to find as we've discovered not that many years ago, we had to clean up the OOB's of equipment that never got off the ground for various reasons, or were only prototypes or test bed platforms. And if "properly" entered and fielded, we had to modify them in light of newer and better information because they just weren't that "battlefield game changer" everyone thought they'd be when put to the test or they were used beyond "kicking the tires".

Every new car you'd like to buy looks REAL GOOD until you've owned it for awhile, it's the one you don't like quite as much but are wondering about none the less, that'll more then likely be the better car for you. We would call that a "gut feeling" too often ignored with regrets later.

Do you understand where I'm trying to come from here?

Ask yourself why I used the above, from a job I disliked due to industry practices after I retired, but if there's enough of you "it looks REAL GOOD" people out here, just maybe I should reconsider-so I paraphrase-Want to buy a car? :D ;) :p !!!

Yep-Still Tracking this equipment and development in my own way.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1471141359
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1471141093

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Yeah " based on" could mean a lot of things. For one , nowhere is "concrete" used to desciribe a component of the armour package of the T-14 as it is for the T-15 and the speeds as reported by army recognition T-14 vs T-15 are not the same .....not really even close......70 kph vs 80-90kph. ( maybe it's all that concrete......) and that doesn't make sense if the point of the 15 was to support the 14's The basic chassis may be from the same basic stock but that's where the similarities seem to end,

I'm not making any radical changes to the set up we have now without more info but I acknowledge that I missed some of the ERA first time around but details were even harder to come by first time around

Don

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Amen to that.

It seems since the Ukrainian Crisis started and we entered into the "Chilled/or Chilly(?) War" all this equipment is coming out of the woodwork, though in regards to the Russian ARMATA Package that's a long "on again off again" program going back to the "BLACK EAGLE". We respond by moving up the M2A2 SEP V3 program, UK with the CHALLENGER upgrades with Germany, France etc. etc. responding in kind. Australia is practically revamping their entire Army and it's equipment from an Infantry based one to one that'll be more mobile and Armor heavy. Every current truck in their inventory will be replaced by about 4-5 variants of the German MAN family of trucks within the next five years or less. It's the largest military truck deal made in a very long time.

We are in a period now worldwide of the greatest introduction of new equipment we've seen probably since the Cold War. And for us that'll present it's own set of issues which is why I'm being a little more cautious than normal and spending more time tracking and researching many of these pieces of equipment and trying to sift through the data to find the "commonalities" among the many refs out to properly establish as solid a baseline for any given piece of equipment becoming available to us.

Quite frankly, I don't want to spend the next fifteen years "fixing" equipment when I can be playing with it in a game instead.

It's just where my "heads at" right now.

The EITAN Icon looks real good!

Sometimes I wish I had another "me" I could pull out of a box to help me here, however, and I hear you, that thought scares the crap out of me as well let alone what how CINCLANTHOME would feel about that!?!

Anyway Savannah calls in the morning where a little R&R and a couple of "pints" of SMITHWICKS in the evening should set the world right again! ;)

Enjoy your weekend everyone and take care.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Thanks...... once some actual dimensions are published I can adjust the size to match..even a photo of it parked beside something else would be helpful but for now that's "close enough"

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Nice short video of the Eitan 8x8 HERE
(unfortunately not driven past anything we know the size of)

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

In the pic is a good view of what appears to be a M2 MG, length of about 1,654 mm (65.1 in). Import it into a photo program (I;m away from my PC atm) and use that as a measure for a rough guess. From looking at the two humans I would guess that from the driver to the beginning of the two rear extensions (just above rear wheel) would be about M113 sized but much taller.

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Yeah that's where I got that top view photo :)

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Little update on the new USMC ACV.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/def...ther/86131020/
I give the BAE variant the edge because they took into account the 13-man USMC rifle squad when designing their vehicle. The SAIC version only carries 11 passengers.
http://www.naval-technology.com/news...-phase-4842337

And in other news it looks like the aging AAV (formerly LVT-7) is getting yet another upgrade.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/def...tico/81869442/

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Now in with survivability set to 7 and a new pic. We'll deal with side armour changes later

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Survivability 7 is probably a bit high given that the AAV doesn't have a 'V' hull and the floor armor is still only aluminium. But that and any armor upgrades can wait.

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

They claim MRAP equivalence so it's a 7

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Since when has anyone believed manufactuerer claims :D

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

She does look "beefed up" compared to the standard AAV. But here's what the USMC has to say about it. Looks like I spotted some shock mounting in the mechanical part (Don't think they're the "mains" though?) of the video. We live and die by that stuff on the boats.
http://www.marines.mil/News/News-Dis...-upgraded-aav/

You will find in this next video from SAIC one of the IED tests conducted on the AAV SU which is it's official designation as noted in the USMC ref above.
Already has a name isn't that special? :rolleyes:
http://www.saic.com/about/about-saic...tories/aav-su/

Did my part to pack out Mom today, chilling out and watching some closing ceremonies. Take Care!

Regards,
Pat

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

That's what I've called it too..............

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

I suspect it'll wind up being AAVP SU or AAV SUP for the APC variant, 'E' for the engineer, and 'C' for command.

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Tracking some new Chinese APC/IFV developments

Derivatives of ZBD-04 IFV (Unit 740)

Basically, China realized that once they'd fulfilled the need for the PLA Marine Corps to have a heavy amphibian IFV in the ZBD-04; the same chassis could be used for a land-based IFV; resulting in:

http://www.military-today.com/apc/zbd_08.htm

http://english.chinamil.com.cn/news-...nt_6682644.htm

ZBD-04A / ZBD-08 AIFV (Name is unclear, sources differ)

Which essentially is the ZBD-04 product improved to:

Hull:
Frontal: 30mm AP-I @ 1000m
Sides: 14.5mm AP-I @ 200m
Rear: 7.62mm AP

at the cost of greater weight (4 metric tons heavier than the 04) and only being able to swim rivers and lakes; as opposed to the 04's sea-amphibious capabilitity.

Some derivatives of this vehicle are showing up in C3I roles, etc.

Recently, ANOTHER prototype showed up on the Chinese Internet (TM).

http://china-defense.blogspot.hk/201...hting.html?m=1

It appears to be part of the developmental process for their "second generation" Airborne IFV to replace the ZBD-03; and they have abandoned the 100mm/30mm coaxial armament for 100mm/7.62mm coaxial in this prototype.

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Israel must be releasing/or confirming information on the EITAN 8x8 already out there, so by way of an update...
http://www.armyrecognition.com/israe..._10208163.html

Also something I've been keeping my eye on...
http://www.military-today.com/apc/ofek.htm

The above gives me a "warm fuzzy" on the "The Great MERKAVA troop carrying debate." I believe we settled on 6 fully equipped troops. It also confirms what we found as the high number of 10 troops at the time as well they can carry. And before someone gets a little "nuts" over this :deadhorse: topic, we realized then that from MERKAVA Mk III on, the tanks hulls were modified from the Mk II to allow for more space by increasing length and storage efficiency of ammo etc. etc..

This was a VERY HOT topic that would cause a person to receive the "death penalty" from both forums as I recall.

22 and a wake up - life is good!!

Have a good night - ready wrap up my work week later this afternoon/night! :jam:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

If anyone sees length and width stats for the Eitan let me know

Nevermind.....found it ( looking for a second source now but the proportions look good now compare to the top photo I have )

Dimensions of the Eitan
Length - 8.35m
Height - 2.62m
Width - 3.29m


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1474116800

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

AUSA 2016 gives me the perfect excuse to post something before try to beat out "Pee Wee's Big Adventure" just driving on the "right side" of the road should be interesting enough!?! :cool:

Anyway...
1. USA to receive its first up gunned STRYKER prototypes. Still nothing definite out there if this is to include ATGW capability.
http://www.janes.com/article/64277/a...ed-in-december
http://www.janes.com/article/64341/a...elaying-cannon

2. BAE has unveiled it's next Gen BRADLEY.
http://www.janes.com/article/64295/a...xt-gen-bradley
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/l...-bradley-conc/
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Sec...8701475590307/

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

First possible photos of 30mm STRYKER and a designation and name:

XM1296 Dragoon.

http://breakingdefense.com/2016/10/a...n-vs-russians/

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Here's the PDF datasheet for the Kongsberg MCT-30 mm Weapon System turret chosen for the DRAGOON:

http://www.ksat.no/~/media/KPS/Datas...%20MCT-30.ashx

Main armament: MK44 30mm Bushmaster Automatic Cannon
Ammunition handling: Linkless ammunition feeding: 2 x 75 ready rounds

NATO standard 30x173mm ammunition (AP, HE, TP, PABM)
Programmable Air Burst Ammunition
Reload from under armor

Coaxial gun: 7.62 mm, 600 ready rounds
Smoke grenades: 2 x 4 tubes (Optional)

Sight system: Sight includes: Day Camera, Thermal Imager and Laser Range Finder (LRF)
Identification: ID Range > 3000 meters (standard vehicle target 2.3 x 2.3 m)

Turret movement: 360 ° movement in azimuth
-10 ° to + 45 ° elevation
up to + 70 ° elevation (Optional)
Stabilization: Fully stabilized including point stabilization.

Protection level:
Baseline protection is STANAG level 1.
Add on Armor up to level 4 (Optional).

Other options:
Missile system
Threat detection systems
Commanders Independent Weapon Station
Active Protection System

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Great!

We've been talking about an 8x8...pitfalls, advantanges, etc. I'm interested to hear more about how the Dragoon with supporting fire vehicles are intended to pick off scout vehicles and other light vehicles so the Abrams can concentrate on Russian heavies. We do this in our game, save Abram fires to take on Russian tanks.

So, I took a Stryker and put a Bushmaster 30mm in weapon slot #1. Now, I need a pic (would be nice to have.) with the new turret.

Thanks MarkSheppard good job!

=====

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

So basically the US Army has invented a LAV-30?

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Wip...........

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

It needs a weapon like the German 30mm with sabot for ground work, The Bushmaster in the game now is set up for aircraft use

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

Check the USMC OOB, the EFVP was going to be armed with a 30mm Bushmaster and I believe Weapon# 77 is based on the German one.

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

The German 30mm and the 30mm Mauser, the USMC 30mm Bushmaster, and the USA 30mm M230 ChGun and Bushmaster 30mm, are all weapon class 19.

The USA 30mm does not have Sabot values as the German 30mm MK 30-2 and the USMC Bushmaster.

However, the problem I encounter is that the weapon cannot be changed from a different OOB. If I buy the USA Stryker, I don't know how to load weapon 77 or 169, USMC and Germany OOBs respectively onto the USA Stryker.

Now, the USA 25mm M242 CG 81 has sabot values and I could simply load that weapon. Or, I could load the Bushmaster in weapon slot #1 and give it sabot ammo, roll the dice and see what happens.

=====

Re: APC Development and related topics.
 

In Mobhack, open the OOB with the weapon you want to copy from. Navigate to it on the weapons tab, and then use the copy function. That weapon is now in the paste buffer.

Now open up your target OOB, go to the weapons tab and find a free weapon slot (if there is one - if not, you are stuffed). Paste the weapon you just copied into that slot. Save weapon data before moving off. Now open your modified APC in the units tab, find the cannon (probably slot 1) and change its ID to the slot number you used to paste the copied data into. Change ammo to suit. Save OOB and exit Mobhack. Job done (though you should run the points calculator on the resulting OOB).