Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Ermor has staled for the fifth or sixth time so far. Maybe finding a replacement player is not a bad idea? During the short period while Ermor was subbed there was at least some activity in the graphs. In the last 20 turns, he's just been sitting on his 8 provinces doing nothing, when not staling.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

I do not feel completely comfortable with looking for a replacement player. When I've reminded ermor about hosting times and stales they've expressed a desire to continue playing. That makes it a very difficult choice for me as an admin to remove the player against their will. If the player had expressed any disinterest to me in playing I would have no problem with it.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Ok, end of the road for Marverni. After a nice last battle I lost all I had left. No province left and no army, my opponent can storm an empty fort now.
I was basically dead since turn 5 when I stupidly lost my pretender but it's been fun nonetheless :)
See you all.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

OP updated.

Thank you for the game Kheldron.
C U in future games :)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

Thank you for playing till the end. Very much appreciated. :)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

I noticed the hosting reminder was set to 6 hours after the llamaserver was fixed, I've set it back to 10 hours.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

Hosting reminder? A once a week game needs a hosting reminder?

Heh, OK>

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

Just in case you totally forgot that it was actually hosting that week.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

Perhaps reminder should be 24-36 hours before hosting instead of 10?

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

Is sending items/gold/gems to another player without any followup message considered diplomacy?

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

Wow. I never even considered this as a possibility.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

Um, yes?

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

Yeah, I'd say that's verboten. Whether you're trying to influence another player (the understood message being "be nice, and maybe you'll get more free stuff!"), or are facing elimination and just want to spite your conqueror.

And if it's the later case, seeing as how this is an anonymous, every man/woman/child for him/herself game, what would be the point, except mere vindictiveness (which in a regular MP game, I'd totally be for :D )?

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

Yes. That would be considered diplomacy.

A attacks B. B sens A gems. Maybe A would cease his attack?- worth a try at the price of few gems.

A & B are neighbors. B sends A gems. Maybe A would think- wow, B is cool, of course I won't attack him. Oh wait a sec. Didn't C just attack B. Well I'll show this C not to mess with generous B.

etc.

As I see it. ND in RAND == Complete radio silence. No meta gaming, no msgs, no gold nor gems nor any transferable goods or favors.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

I don't play YARG2, but we are just about to start another NO DIPLO one, so i'll join discussion.
No meta-gaming? It's interesting. I don't think it's possible to avoid metagaming completely. When you attack enemy province you not always want war. And you can show it just by stopping crusade and withdrawing armies instead of taking another province. Is some situations it will be a very clear sign. And such "non-verbal language" is extremely hard to avoid and prevent. But is it really game-ruining? And with a good imagination you can find ways to deliver a message in some cases,mostly when enemy has all reasons to look for such signs (both nations have good armies, and aggressor had more need for that province(it neighbors his capital), or just the province is valuable for both but aggressor just is obviously stronger in all charts, so when he attacks and withdraws it's am obvious message "i just need this province because it's 20k+ and I like that damn adepts of silver order I can hire here .").

To make RAND completely RAND you should have a rule - if you took enemy province you should fight him till death. I'm not sure it's good idea though.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

militarist, that's a good observation. I was referring to out-of-band meta gaming. Meaning using communication channels outside of this game to influence it by meta gaming (like, expose your identity, threaten to retaliate in a different game, whatever).

I think that in game "signs" are not meta gaming and are ok. So if someone attacks you and just takes a few provinces and you don't want to attack back - fine. It's your risk that the aggressor would come back for more. Do with it as you will but it will always stay at the realm of guesswork and would never be comparable to a NAP.

I personally find it way more acceptable in no-diplo game than giving gems or gold. When someone gives you gold you don't have to guess much. Obviously he wants to carry favor. That's even "stronger" diplo than a "hello there neighbor" message.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

Of course giving nice gifts would be dis-allowed. But I would think spam-sending crap to fill up his slots would just be a war tactic.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

Quote from the OP:
I think we just need to forget there is 'send messages' button in this game.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

Lol, when I first read this I was looking for the joke or twisty punch-line. But then read the later thread posts and noticed people were debating it! So realised it must have been intended as a proper question :shock:

I'd say there's absolutely no way anything can be sent in a RAND game. Be it a message, gold, items, anything. As all of these are at least against the spirit of the rules (or just flat out against the rules IMO)

But sending gold could be turned into a basic-code way to communicate. How about sending the following gold amounts to your neighbour on the same turn in separate instalments :)

16
5
1
3
5

or maybe

14
1
16


I do regularly use the send items option in RAND games though. (actually during all game types). As sending items, and then cancelling them, is the only sure way to re-arrange un-removable items in your lab. I'm mainly pointing this out for the benefit of those who didn't know about this work-around for organising your lab screen :)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

@Calahan:
4
5
1
12

But seriously, it was a proper question. I also thought no, but I wanted to check if everyone else thinks the same way. And most specifically what admins think. Sending peace offers and crypted messages is not the only use of sending gems/gold/items. I had some different things in mind, but I am not going to give you ideas. So, to conclude - sending anything is strictly forbidden, for whatever reason it may be (except overfilling enemy's lab, of course, that's a valid tactic).

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

yes and
Not in this game :)

See WingedDog quote from the OP.
I'm slowly compiling a list of cheesy or MM intensive "tricks" for the purpose of disallowing them.
The spirit of the game IMHO is to have fun, iffy tactics that also add MM make the game slide closer to the "chore" pole rather than to the "fun" pole.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

LOL, guess I should have put a smiley in there ;)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

hehe, when not hearing nor seeing who you're talking to one smile(y) can make all the difference :D

Do you know the statistics re. airplane crashes due to stupid communication glitches?- you'd be surprised...

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

so, who was Yomi?

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

Me. Funny story of rise and fall. My shortest game so far :)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

I made some estimations about the threat levels of players for each nation after the first and second year of the game. They were based on graphs and what I was able to conclude about each nation's strategies. Yomi was ranked very high - among the top 5.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [23/24 players left]
 

Dimaz, I know first hand how good a player you are - Damn but this game has some tough competition.

Thank you for the game. I personally would really love it if you could find the time to write a short AAR and post it when the game's over.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [22/24 players left]
 

Thank you for staying till the end, I hope future games would be more lucky for you. :)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [22/24 players left]
 

Happy 4th of July, and good game all. I was Niefl, and botched it pretty good. I'll get the hang of this yet! :)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [22/24 players left]
 

Thanks for the game, don't forget to send your last turn, game still needs it.;)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [22/24 players left]
 

Done! Good luck to the players still in it, and thanks rdonj! :cool:

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [22/24 players left]
 

Thanks for playing Stagger Lee. See you in future games.

Oh, the drama, Neifel the all mighty has fallen.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [21/24 players left]
 

And what about Oceania, will he reveal his identity to us?

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [21/24 players left]
 

I personally would at least like to hear that the Oceania player contacted the admin, rdonj, before going AI. A bad show IMO if not.

As avoiding players going AI at any stage was (I thought) one of the aims of this particular series of games. Especially if they still had a fort(s) and troops left.


Edit: Thanks to those who stayed and fought until the end (Kheldron, Dimaz, Stagger Lee). It really does make a big difference to games when players fight until the last man instead of just bailing the moment the omens for survival start looking bad.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [21/24 players left]
 

Well, lets be fair, Kheldron essentially suicided himself, and Oceania did lose his capital and probably just has a fort filled with some chaff. I am very satisfied with players' effort, certainly nobody bailed out so far.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [21/24 players left]
 

Oh man, Oceania went AI?- Was it this turn?

If indeed it was as Psycho described it then it sounds as though it didn't really have impact on the game either way and looks like the player stuck to the end (of his resources and ability to make a difference). I probably would have preferred him not to go AI anyway but I can understand and accept his decision.

Another thing, How do you know all this stuff?- Other players may start adding things up to make an educated guess re. your ID. Best avoid such telling remarks :)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [21/24 players left]
 

Oceania was Graeme Dice. He did contact me before going AI and my understanding was that, basically, he had nothing left. He also isn't around right now and would have needed to get a sub or stale for a few turns, so going AI seemed to be a reasonable solution overall.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [21/24 players left]
 

Yep, I made a last ditch attempt to throw my remaining amber clan mages, and all of my nature and water gems at my enemies, but couldn't make a dent in them, and had only an empty non-capital fort with a single telestic animate and my pretender, so I went AI.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [21/24 players left]
 

Come on WL, give me some credit, I didn't say anything that cannot be read directly from the graphs. Here, I will elaborate:

Kheldron's suicide - We can see that Marveri lost all provinces and was left only with his capital. Then on one turn he loses all his army, but not the castle. This means that he tried to break the siege in a suicidal attempt. He then goes AI and writes on the forum about his fort being empty and then Fomoria takes it.

Oceania - His army graph rose very quickly over the course of three turns, which means he recruited/summoned a bunch of chaff. On the last turn he lost one of his two forts and 2/3 of his army. Most importantly, his gem income dropped below 6, which means he lost the capital.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [21/24 players left]
 

That was no suicide. In fact he had been sieging my castle for some time but I decided I had a chance of breaking it with gifts from heaven spam and such.
He had some losses but not enough :(

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [21/24 players left]
 

ok Psycho, good points. This is a fine line however and that is what I was trying to say. Even an acrobat can at some point slip :)

Thank you for the game Graeme Dice. Hope to see you with us next time around.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [20/24 players left]
 

Well, I guess I'm going to be known as the guy who got crushed by ulm playing lanka (n°1 in the Hall of Shame) :o
Good luck to all of you!

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [20/24 players left]
 

Wait, isn't it a bit early to tell goodbye? According to scoregraphs you still have a fort left, your research graph doesn't fall, so there are plenty of mages inside.
I know I can't make you change your decision if it is made, but I (and I think many others) would appreciate if you stay in our unperfect world for a little longer for the balance sake, as your actions may affect it's future. You would certainly make better scripting for those mages then AI.
Anyway thanks for playing, better luck in future games. :)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [20/24 players left]
 

Ermor, please have some respect to other players.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [20/24 players left]
 

*has a word or two with ermor*

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [20/24 players left]
 

Dear Ermor player, please stop staling like that. You see, I can't think of any good reason one might stale like that. If you're busy with RL or suddenly find that you don't like dominions then just say the word and we will look for a sub. If you need extra time you know the game policy for giving generous extensions so all you need to do is ask.

Staling like that is disrespectful to the other players. I'm sure I don't need to spell out why. We're a small and friendly community and quite tolerant but I think you're pushing it. Besides the other players feelings you may want to consider what image of your self you want to impress.

So please make up your mind, either play the game with us or find a sub. If you don't, I reckon that decision will be made for you.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [20/24 players left]
 

Okay guys. I've sent ermor's player a message to the effect that if he stales again he's going to be removed from the game, no questions asked. If he does, please feel free to remind me of this so the game can get back on course. Also I've set the reminder emails back to 20 hours reminder, to hopefully help make it easier for him to realize a turn is due. After that, it is on him to make sure his turns are in on time.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [20/24 players left]
 

Thanks rdonj. Ermor player had already sent his turn. I just hope it isn't AI turning order...

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [20/24 players left]
 

I think Ermor is a pretty cool guy. eh stales every other turn and doesnt afraid of anything. :smirk:

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [20/24 players left]
 

ok, seriously, that meme is lame. And I'm already feeling snarky about this game. (Cursed anonymity, you stop me from making fun of some players).