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Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
Had issues trying to log in again early this morning, sorry for the delay.
Alright just completed a review of my 2019/2020 Submission Campaign Parts 1-3 (Along w/the wash out of Part 3.), to also include all the intervening posts where we hashed out some issues and added a couple of pieces of equipment that came up during the process (i.e. T-64 BULAT M17) and mods based mostly on date and revised equipment (i.e. K2 PIP). The results were very gratifying for me to see, especially, for South Africa for all the work that was put into researching those tanks and all that came before in the last submissions around 4/5 years before-THANK YOU. I hope some players will take advantage as some of the countries in that area also saw some new tanks in the last patch. So what did I find, not too much really as indicated above and given Don's workload specifically in the OOB area these were I'm sure just minor oversights and as he posted I ended up giving him 5 pages of printed data just myself. With that being said I guess this year I need to shoot for at least 6 pages of data!?! :D Before you get that two or three beers, I'll save you the trip, I'll just "shoot" myself if it gets there. ;) :p So there should be no surprises here from well "forever" and the USA/USMC for the MAJOR ABRAMS headache I gave myself starting with M1A1 FEP that opened the door to the rest. Here's what I got... INDIA :shock: ARJUN MK-1/UNIT 020/END DATE/DEC 2025 VICE DEC 2015// I believe I posted that they are currently operational in the 43rd Tank Regiment-this strictly by memory earlier this evening. ARJUN MK-1A/UNIT 021/DELETE/AAG/ADD/RWS w/12.7mm// ARJUN MK-II/UNIT 022/DELETE AAG/ADD/RWS w/12.7mm// I think I know why these below might not have gotten changed, first because before it became known as the M1A2C, it was also "officially" called the the ABRAMS SEP V3. Next was submitted as a COPY of UNIT 517 (M1A2 SEP V2) that represented that Battalion/or Regiment that was sent to Europe in 2018 as an urgent equipment upgrade w/APS as part of a show of force prior to deployment overseas. As far as I can determine TROPHY is still equipped on those tanks. UPDATE: THEY ARE @ 2058. However it's still not been adopted across the board for the rest of the M1A2 SEP V2 fleet and we're still waiting on FOC for the M1A2C. I can see both sides clearly concerning the APS. That being said I'm putting them here anyway if for no reason to show that "I'm paying attention" out here. USA: M1A2 SEP V3/UNIT 538/RENAME TO/M1A2C// ADD/M1A2 SEP V2/COPY/UNIT 517/ADD/START/JAN 2018/TROPHY APS w/4 SHOTS// See POST 240 for all of the above That's it, I'm hitting the rack, GOOD NIGHT/or MORNING!! (I hit it and feel great!! ;)) Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
The USMC started deactivating it's tank battalions in July 2020 and it's looking like the plan is to have deactivated them all by the end of 2021.
BUT! Let's not jump the gun on future developments. |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
I was referring to getting the M1A1 FEP tanks "squared away" but, Don and I had this discussion also when I first started posting on USMC PLAN 2030, so to quote the late great Yogi Berra "It ain't over until it's over" and that's the way we're looking at the USMC MBT situation. Wait and see. Until then, enjoy them in the game.
Also as a side note; within the next month or so, we're likely to know the status of the UK MBT's & APC's. UK MOD is looking to get leaner and more flexible as well and it might cost them their heavy armor and possibly more to a lesser degree as noted above. COVID is costing the the major economies billions of dollars and something has to give and to some extent that means military budgets. I will have many posts on equipment where COVID is concerned as I post them. Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
House Rules Apply here, as noted. It is that time of year again.
Don, After a couple of emails back and forth, Ralph Zwilling from TANK MASTERS has agreed to provide me with answers to my questions concerning the current LEOPARDS in service with the BUNDESWEHR. My focus is from the LEOPARD 2A5 to the LEOPARD 2A7V. I also hope to get his thoughts concerning the BOXER T-40 for use in the BUNDESWEHR and concerning the UK's possible acquisition of them vice the AJAX and WARRIOR CSP. KMW has already approached the Government and MOD about procuring the BOXER T-40 which like the French JAGUAR is ready to go vice AJAX and WARRIOR CSP. I started that Post (Word Doc) concerning the above before work today and will hopefully have it finished before I go back to work Tuesday. I will leave you with this much from my ref, France and Germany adhered to the following...If it ain't broke, don't fix it., the UK should've followed suit. The issue isn't in the CT-40 Cannon but, in the fact that UK/Lockheed Martin/BAE changed the subsystems vice keeping the one that was designed to support the CT-40 as designed. They "cocked it up" and it appears they might pay a heavy price for it. So there is no operational AJAX or WARRIOR CSP. The French might have theirs (JAGUAR) FIELDED possibly by the end of this year or just into 2021 since their Gun Systems actually work. But before I go, do you have a couple of questions about LEOPARD or other you want me to ask Ralph about? The man has access, he writes books on their equipment and ours and does a lot of consulting and photographic work to include for JANE's. Also for you from 19 OCT 2020... Tank-Masters.de visited 1st Squadron, 2nd Cavalry Regiment "War Eagles“ (USA-Mine) during their training as part of the exercise Dragoon Thunder 20 at the Maneuver Rights Area (MRA) near Hirschau. Enjoy! http://tank-masters.de/?cat=4 Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
No questions from me. You have it covered
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Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
Don,
IF memory serves, concerning the following example, 120mm/L44 WGO1, the "hi-lighted" portion indicates the ammo type/or upgrade. Is that correct? Also if you know, have the LEOPARDS from the 2A5 on, have at least 1 or 2 versions that allow for add on armor "tiles"? It doesn't look like it concerning the 2A5's from what I saw last night in the OOB. The German LEOPARD issue has gone beyond the those tanks to include the BOXER. My first email was directed to the BOXER first with a couple beyond that. Due to the "dismal" amount of MBT's the Germans have, don't be surprised if the LEOPARD 2A5 doesn't get extended. At the end of 2019, the following battle tank variants and special vehicles were in service: 241 Combat ready tanks not counting the three command variants as hi-lighted below, which I won't submit. This also leaves out the 2A7V as some of the below will be upgraded to that MBT. Below is from another source (Recently found.) that in numbers and info is on par to Tank Masters. Leopard 2A5 MBTs: 19 Leopard 2A6 MBTs: 153 Leopard 2A6A1 MBTs: 2 Leopard 2A6MA1 MBTs: 29 Leopard 2A6MA1 MBTs Kommandeursfahrzeug: 1 Leopard 2A6MA2 MBTs: 20 Leopard 2A7 MBTs: 20 Leopard 2A7V MBTs: 104** Leopard 2 driving training tanks: 21 Bergepanzer 3A0 Büffel ARVs: 17 Bergepanzer 3A0A1 Büffel ARVs: 52 Bergepanzer 3A1 Büffel ARVs: 6 Gepanzertes Brückenlegesystem Leguan: 7* I'm going to give Ralph a baseline to compare the current LEOPARDS in service in the things that matter to us i.e. TI/GSR and other aspects of the FCS etc. without "overloading" him. I'll be using the following below... For comparison ABRAMS SEP - LEOPARD 2A6 w/ ATTICA/ABRAMS SEP V2 - LEOPARD 2A6MA2/LEOPARD 2A7 w/PERI R17A3 and finally M1A2C (SEP V3) - LEOPARD 2A7V (Which might be fielded, subject to verification.) the reason should be obvious to some, as these a near "peer" tanks in the world of heavy armor. That will minimize the work so I'm not having to "reinvent the wheel" on most aspects of these tanks, especially since we ironed out the ABRAM's last year. I guess my first submission will be about the German OOB as it looks now. Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
Quote:
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Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
First it has become evident to me, as I :rant:'d on in POSTS 1175/1181 in the MBT Thread, that the only way around the rework and to still be able to get the new and modified equipment into the game is to simply do separate thread submissions throughout the year. My hope is this doesn't go beyond the next two years as I don't want to swamp Don with the big submissions at the end of the year like some have been in the past.
It will require a little more coordination, but, that's what this Threads purpose was originally and currently designed for so we have an uninterrupted method of passing along our thoughts and everything else we use this for. So again, I would request, everyone else's cooperation in regards to keeping this channel open. There's a lot that needs to be done at my end which will fall to Don to carry it through as he sees into the game or not. And he's much more busy then me in regards to the game work. So in advance to everyone else, I THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR COOPERATION!! ;) :) Alright to business... Don, I have already and just finished going through the German OOB to include to a small degree the APC/IFV in particular the BOXER as earlier indicated. As I see it concerning the 2A5 we have UNITS 031/032/270/271-275. Concerning the 2A6 we have UNITS 033/034 EX/035/037/276 EX & 277 EX. I have already indicated that Germany never operated the 2A6 EX as this was an export prototype tank designed for that market. I was initially thinking to delete them, however, after sometime in researching and thinking about the situation, the right answer here is to just recapitalize or if you prefer RESET them to the missing variations we don't have. I would ask you at this juncture to consider the following to the above work I have already have, but in bringing this issue/problem up I have a very easy, I hope, solution (Insight: In the Submarine Force we learned not to bring up a problem without presenting options.). The LEOPARD 2A5 was the first model that allowed for add on armor yet we don't have any tanks in the OOB to reflect that as far as I know. We certainly have plenty of slots open to add them as it does benefit the player and game. The solution is in the Canadian OOB and I'm thinking UNIT 036 fits the bill perfectly and would also fit in nicely with the START 3/01 (Which might change.) of the German 2A6 tanks. We just need to transfer the Canadian HEAT values from their UNIT 036 and as I look at notes again, I think the German 2A6 EX would be better suited in that role as you've already updated their ammo through the years. If you decide those tanks make sense, we'll need to change the END Dates for UNIT 037 and if modified as recommended just above, UNIT 277 to 12/25 (Or add two more due to improved ammo upgrade issues since 12/16.) So later tonight, I intend to contact Germany to see about some better dates and if the help offered is still available to do so. If not, I remembered, I contacted as you might remember, concerning the East German use of the T-62/or the T-64 and a couple of other items (T-80) that popped up in the Forum. I still have the emails from the head of the BUNDESWEHR Tank Museum and might get help from there maybe. It's all or nothing when this gets done, as I don't want to revisit the OOB for these tank issues again. Let me know what you think about those improved tanks. I can also tell you I'll need to look into the Spanish LEOPARD 2A6E and the Greek LEOPARD 2A6 HEL. A couple things here first this Ref is represents many others I have and second for those who followed the submission of this tank the STRV-122 that's where I might be headed with those two previous tanks. http://fighting-vehicles.com/leopard...hull%20section. http://fighting-vehicles.com/leopard-2e-tank/ http://fighting-vehicles.com/strv-122-tank/ (This was unavailable when I submitted it but, fully supports it as we entered it. I intend to enjoy the rest of my evening and tomorrow we have errands as CINCLANTHOME wants to finish remodeling my room she's such a doer and organizer my room never looked better!! Good Night! Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
I'll look into this tomorrow.
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Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
I appreciate the response but, please don't get too far ahead of me on this unless it's to add the up armored versions I recommended.
Still much "hanging in the air" at the moment. I will probably have to take a closer look at the LEOPARD 2A5 increased HEAT numbers before we just apply them from the Canadian LEOPARD 2A6CAN. I'm putting all my attention into the German OOB it it could be the only thing I get done this year. I really want it to get done right to the best of my ability. Besides I'm sure both Andy and you have plenty of other issues that are of more importance at the moment. Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
This is simply an update on the German LEOPARDS as just sent...
"Ralph, (Tank-Masters) Good Morning! Hopefully all is well with family and you. Congratulations with your collaboration with Dragon Models! It is my hope we can proceed together so I can get my submission together for our next patch to WinSPMBT (Modernized Steel Panthers). As noted, our German OOB needs fixing. I have already indicated to the moderators/system managers that I'll be recapitalizing some existing units such as the LEOPARD 2A6 EX to up armored LEOPARD 2A6 with what I believe to be AMAP-B add on armor. Also tracking that the LEOPARD 2A7V that might get the IBD SMART ProTech armor . So, some of these questions would suffice with a simple Yes or No. I'll provide dates as we have them in the German OOB. We just use a simple Month and Year format, i.e. 12/2020. Our dates assume when the tanks became available for combat and when withdrawn from combat units. So, question #1 below will have a direct bearing on the end date for the A24/A25 tanks. A simple "Good " will work if you have no issues with the dates given below. I'm just concerned with the LEOPARD 2A4 -LEOPARD 2A7V. 1) In a national crisis would the training units' tanks be used in a possible combat situation? 2) LEOPARD 2A4 fielded in 01/1986. Withdrawn from combat units in 12/2008 (Which seems incorrect, as that's closer to when the training units stopped using them.) 3) LEOPARD 2A5 during or after KFOR, were they ever up armored with the "belly" steel plate for mine protection? My sources say no, we have them in the game as such. My understanding is due to the experiences of KFOR with the A24/A25, this would lead to the development of the 2A6M. 4) LEOPARD 2A5 fielded in 01/1996. Withdrawn from combat units in 12/2010. 5) LEOPARD 2A6 fielded in 03/2001. Withdrawn from combat units in 12/2025. The last represents the end time for the game. So, you see the urgency in trying to fix what we can as we find them while still adding new and retiring other units as we find them through the web. 6) LEOPARD 2A6M we don't have it in the game at all. All I can really find is that Germany had 80 built between 2004-2008. Some of these I know some were leased to Canada until they received their 2A4CAN/2A6CAN tanks. I'm assuming the BUNDESWEHR got them sometime in late 2004 or early 2005 and have no clue as to when they came out of service or were modified to another sub-variant of the 2A6. 7) I'm sorry but, getting a little confusing here. If I understand the temporary designation to support the modification being the LEOPARD 2A6M+, that this tank wasn't actually fielded but, would become the LEOPARD 2A6MA2 is this correct? Also, with further upgrades added, this same tank would lead to the LEOPARD 2A6MA1 and a further upgraded LEOPARD 2A6M some time in 2018 fielded? 8) LEOPARD 2A6M2 besides the dates for this tank, is this the one that received the same Fire Control System (FCS) as the LEOPARD 2A7? 9) From the LEOPARD 2A6M on until item (8 above, we don't have any of those tanks entered by those designations or with those upgrades noted on your site and a couple of other as current as yours. 10) LEOPARD 2A7 this we have as I submitted and looks to be current as it stands now with this project. I have it fielded on 12/2014 with game end time again, 12/2025. 11) LEOPARD 2A7V your thoughts please as to when you think it'll be fielded. And if you think I might be on the right track that it'll have the SMART ProTech armor package. Or do you think it might play more of a role in the development of the EMBT? 12) Again, if you have time, I would appreciate your help with my 10/26/2020 email to you concerning mostly the BOXER as I think we have units the BUNDESWEHR hasn't ordered to this point based I what I can find. If you have any thoughts, you wish to share please feel free. I will ensure you get full credit for your assistance and your website. Your website was the one that provided me with "concrete proof" that the LEOPARD 2A7 was fielded. So, I thank you for that. Have a good day! See you were "playing" in the snow great shots!! Pat" I'll find out soon if the offer was for valid. This will be slightly modified to send it to the Deutsches-PanzerMueseum (Under the purview of the BUNDESWEHR.) which as noted before provided me information on the East German use or not of the T-62/T-64 and T-80 tanks a few years back. As also indicated, I'm prepared to move on this on my own, however clarification on the items noted above would save me time and not wasting my time. The Dr. later this morning so, Good Whatever/Wherever!! Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
Yeah, it gets confusing. We'll see what answers you might get back and proceed from there.
Thanks Pat |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
Ralph came through for me at 0740 CET this morning all questions were answered. I will post them when I get a response to the following that was sent on 10/26/2020 which has been modified slightly since then and just sent. I'll repost those emails with his answers AND my comments as needed after his answers in ()'s as time allows this week.
Also PLEASE Do Not delete any tanks from the OOB. I'll be able to modify them with the add on armor and upgrade the others based on his answers, as I had hoped to do from the start. How good do I feel the source is? If the pictures aren't enough to convince you (Not You.) as they clearly show he has access, then go to the book section and see who does the "Forward" for his books. Just so that's out of the way. I will of course multi source my submissions as ALWAYS, with no WiKi. Yeah, look at me I'm a tank expert and let me post some :bs: and :gossip: on one. :rolleyes: Most people are well intentioned I'm sure on there. :angel Anyway... "Ralph, Good Morning! I I very much appreciate your quick response back concerning the LEOPARD's and I noticed the local time and feel you did it with your morning coffee. I have copied a portion of the 10/26/2020 email this concerning the BOXER. My feeling is that only Question #1 is relevant to this discussion for Germany. As far as I can determine, only Australia is actively pursuing the BOXER w/ LANCE turret. I believe this might be the case as well with the BOXER IFV however if they do, it'll be later in the process. The Australian Army I can confirm is already started training on in parallel with the Manufacturer trials. The UK might also be a candidate for the BOXER LANCE but that can't be confirmed until their Defense Review is released sometime this month to address their whole armor issue. Another reason is simply I've NEVER seen you post any pictures of any BOXER except the APC version. Finally Question #4 I've answered already unless you really surprise with something different. "Looking at the German OOB concerning the LEOPARD, I think I came across some issues outside of what we discussed. I'll list them below. Dates are the "big" issues again, other information is there for you to comment on as you desire. 1) BOXER APC - We have a fielded date of 01/2011 another site I sometimes use is showing it to be 2009. What do you say? 1a) I noticed on your pictures the 12.7mm RWS appears to have a thermal imager (We use TI/GSR) is this correct? 1b) 80km/h off road? That's outstanding! We do factor speed etc. 2) BOXER IFV - Again fielded date JAN 2011. 2a) We have it armed with a 40mm GL and TOW-2 (D) with 6 missiles. 3) BOXER w/LANCE Turret - I wasn't aware you got this version, though I submitted it for the Australian OOB under the LAND 400 contract. That being said, we have it fielded in JAN 2014 for the BUNDESWEHR. 4) LEOPARD 2A4 REVOLOUTION - I believe along with the LEOPARD 2A6 EX I mentioned earlier on, this is also only available as an upgrade, in this case for the 2A4 export market. We have it in the OOB, I know Indonesia was supposed to get it, Singapore operates a similar version and Turkey also was looking to do the same with thier LEOPARD-2T that never got off the ground due to the ALTAY. Did the BUNDESWEHR ever really have it? NO, mine. In my next I'll stay closer to the issue we discussed focusing only on the non-command tanks from your site that matches very closing from what I found from another site, maybe written by someone you know. If you want me to send it along next time let me know. Posted you "news" from DRAGOON THUNDER 20 in the Forum. Great stuff especially as I'm following developments of that STRYKER 30mm version until it's fielded with the ARMY. Take your time, insights are welcomed and your help is deeply appreciated. Have a great day! Pat" So, this will be it for me. But one last question, would you allow to use some of your pictures for the tanks I'll be working on with credit to you and the site where I do. I feel when we have pictures of them "doing something" it's better than them being in a "static/display" position. When this all gets submitted for submission and hopefully into the game would you like to be notified? I see this as a "collaboration" of sorts , that has "cleared the passage of fog for clear sailing" (It's the Submariner in me.) so I can proceed as I had hoped I could. THANK YOU AGAIN!! Pat" So I'll endeavor to enjoy the rest of this evening before returning back for another and fully disclosed exercise for the next couple of weeks. And fun will be had by all!!?!! ;) :D with hopefully with no :doh:'s! Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
1 Attachment(s)
LEOPARD 2A5 picture, hopefully!!
Attachment 16311 The above was an experiment. I wasn't sure based on the photographic equipment used if the pictures from Ralph Zwilling TANK-MASTERS.de would work (Size), second this answers one of the questions I asked Ralph and finally again early this morning he responded to my Oct. 2020 email I resent last night. Gotta get ready for work. Didn't the pictures used to show up in the posts so that you can see them? It's JPEG, :dk:, must've missed the memo or operator error :D. Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
1 Attachment(s)
Pat. Please don't spend a lot of time on photos. I know what works when they have to be resized to 160x80 and tanks with foliage all over them just doesn't work. What I have in the game now is in most cases "good enough" for the various models. If there's one that's not you can point it out and I will go find a game suitable photo.
Just remember, just because it might look great in full colour at 600x 900 res DOES NOT mean it will reduce to a workable photo using a limited grey scale reduced to 160x80 for use as a PIC in the game That said the photo you used for your experiment loads OK but it just isn't what I want in the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1612296308 |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
Didn't intend on submitting it for same reason-camo-and why I haven't in the past.
It just was the first picture shown on top of his LEOPARD 2A5 data sheet. Wasn't sure due to Hi-Res of pictures, whether or not they'd exceed allowable download size. I hit "submit reply" then hit the shower. Lot's going on here to. I'll be very busy anyway this month, the least of which has already started... https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/202...6761611603067/ That's the job. Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
OK. I just didn't want you spending a lot of time uploading photos. The data is what's important. If the photo is important just provide a link. It doesn't take much to exceed the limits for the forums which is why I use Imgur if I need to post something large as that's a link
Yes. It looks like you will be busy. What's with the blue rifles in that link photo ? |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
To me they look like a "high-tech" paintball or a version of "MILES" training system. There's another player out there "DISE" which has limited use with the USA and extensive use with it in Europe.
"The largest difference between MILES and DISE is that DISE is GPS connected, allowing commanders to view hits in real time on a computer screen, or afterward during an after-action review of a training operation. In addition, the components are much smaller and more light-weight than MILES was at the time of adoption. With MILES gear apparently crafty Lance Corporals and Specialists were known to have reset their device if they were “killed”, thus respawning. DISE has solved that feature through the technology utilized." https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...-welcome-dise/ Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
I saw some blue weapons in pictures of an article on training troops in boarding operations in the gulf.
The article specifically stated the blue weapons were special CQB training dummies. |
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Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
SIM rounds are fun and games until the bruises show up, then again they do teach a very important less. STAY OUT OF THE LINE OF FIRE.
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Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
I'm going to post below both emails with the answers Ralph Zwilling provided from Tank-Masters de. Before I do and not for the primary recipient of this, I've gone back to my sources PLUS both the manufacturers sites ARTEC and Rheinmetall. Also to https://www.bundeswehr.de/de/organisation/heer
His answers are all in BOLD any comment by me will be in "()". 47 minutes and counting... Gesendet: Dienstag, 02. Februar 2021 um 03:40 Uhr Von: "patrick conklin" <patrickjconklin@hotmail.com> An: "TANK - MASTERS" <r.zwilling@tank-masters.de> Betreff: THANK YOU! Ralph, Good Morning! I I very much appreciate your quick response back concerning the LEOPARD's and I noticed the local time and feel you did it with your morning coffee. I have copied a portion of the 10/26/2020 email this concerning the BOXER. My feeling is that only Question #1 is relevant to this discussion for Germany. As far as I can determine, only Australia is actively pursuing the BOXER w/ LANCE turret. I believe this might be the case as well with the BOXER IFV however if they do it'll be later in the process. The Australian Army I can confirm is already started training on in parallel with the Manufacturer trials. The UK might also be a candidate for the BOXER LANCE but that can't be confirmed until their Defense Review is released sometime this month to address their whole armor issue. Another reason is simply I've NEVER seen you post any pictures of any BOXER except the APC version. Finally Question #4 I've answered already unless you really surprise with something different. "Looking at the German OOB concerning the LEOPARD, I think I came across some issues outside of what we discussed. I'll list them below. Dates are the "big" issues again, other information is there for you to comment on as you desire. 1) BOXER APC - We have a fielded date of 01/2011 another site I sometimes use is showing it to be 2009. What do you say? The GTK Boxer was handed over to the BWB (now BAAINBw) on 23.09.2009 at KMW in Munich. The first Bundeswehr unit, Jägerbataillon 292 from Donaueschingen, received the GTK Boxer on 11 March 2011 during their training rotation at the German Army Combat Training Center in Letz lingen ( I'm currently looking at something past March 2011.) 1a) I noticed on your pictures the 12.7mm RWS appears to have a thermal imager (We use TI/GSR) is this correct? The FLW 200 features a CCD day camera, thermal imager and laser rangefinder ( I have to investigate the FLW 200 further.) 1b) 80km/h off road? That's outstanding! We do factor speed etc. Depending in the terrain like flat grass, etc. this is possible ( Speed issue off road flat terrain? I would think not but, not sure.) 2) BOXER IFV - Again fielded date JAN 2011. see Above 2a) We have it armed with a 40mm GL and TOW-2 (D) with 6 missiles. The Bundeswehr has the following Variants GTK Boxer Gruppentransportsfahrzeug armed with either cal.50 or 40mm Granatmaschinenwaffe (GRAMAWA) GTK Boxer Fahrschulfahrzeug (Driver Training Vehicle) GTK Boxer Führungsfahrzeug (Command Vehicle) GTK Boxer schweres geschütztes Sanitätskraftfahrzeug (sgSanKfz) (Ambulance) Currently all variants are upgraded to the A2 standard ( Here's where the real work is, there are 3 versions of BOXER's and they are GTK/GTK A1/GTK A2 the difference primarily will be in protection levels. For instance, I can see the GTK A2 at MRAP 7 by way of example. The UK might get this, no decision yet.) 3) BOXER w/LANCE Turret - I wasn't aware you got this version, though I submitted it for the Australian OOB under the LAND 400 contract. That being said, we have it fielded in JAN 2014 for the BUNDESWEHR. No idea (One of the Manufacturer sites indicated this more for export so to this for Germany-NO. That being said, Do not delete this version we'll need this to model it for Australia (w/SPIKE LR) and UK. It again is not in service with the BUNDESWEHR.) 4) LEOPARD 2A4 REVOLOUTION - I believe along with the LEOPARD 2A6 EX I mentioned earlier on, this is also only available as an upgrade, in this case for the 2A4 export market. We have it in the OOB, I know Indonesia was supposed to get it, Singapore operates a similar version and Turkey also was looking to do the same with their LEOPARD-2T that never got off the ground due to the ALTAY. Did the BUNDESWEHR ever really have it? NO, mine. NO (Not in active service with BUNDESWEHR. This was strictly an armor upgrade project for the exported LEOPARD 2A4. But like above save this unit as well for future modeling. Indonesia comes to mind right now.) In my next I'll stay closer to the issue we discussed focusing only on the non-command tanks from your site that matches very closing from what I found from another site, maybe written by someone you know. If you want me to send it along next time let me know. Posted you "news" from DRAGOON THUNDER 20 in the Forum. Great stuff especially as I'm following developments of that STRYKER 30mm version until it's fielded with the ARMY. Take your time, insights are welcomed and your help is deeply appreciated. Have a great day! Pat" So, this will be it for me. But one last question, would you allow to use some of your pictures for the tanks I'll be working on with credit to you and the site where I do. I feel when we have pictures of them "doing something" it's better than them being in a "static/display" position. When this all gets submitted for submission and hopefully into the game would you like to be notified? I see this as a "collaboration" of sorts , that has "cleared the passage of fog for clear sailing" (It's the Submariner in me.) so I can proceed as I had hoped I could. THANK YOU AGAIN!! Pat Never can sleep the night before a training session in the morning after standing post. I've got a couple of hours TV time with CINCLANTHOME on a rare bonus evening at home. So I'm done here. If I can get to the other before I go to bed I will. My TGIF on Sat.) Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
I will simply start with BOXER, there will be more work involved with it then anticipated. I've never taken "half-measures" in anything I've done and therefore I'll not start here. I've added another source (KMW) to address the FLW-200 RWS. This a much more capable system then I thought originally with a "target determination" from 50m - 10,000m. Now I have a German Mom and Aunt near Berlin, so I fully understand what the connotation is meant by the word "determination" as used above. Nothing crazy but better then they have now for TI/GSR. German BOXER UNITS 055 and 056 (Minus TOW.) will represent my GTK A0 models. Both the GTK A1/A2 will be new build versions reflecting better armor and updated weapons systems.
I will include a washout of what can be done in the interim, as I've found one tank each for deletion and the other to be removed from active status to a "reference" unit if you will, in case a foreign power decides to update their LEOPARD 2A4 tanks to the REVOLUTION standard. I'll just finish this below when done. I hope you'll read the questions through so I can keep my answers short in response to Ralphs. His answers are all in BOLD any comment by me will be in "()". Gesendet: Montag, 01. Februar 2021 um 07:04 Uhr Von: "patrick conklin" <patrickjconklin@hotmail.com> An: "TANK - MASTERS" <r.zwilling@tank-masters.de> Betreff: LEOPARD MBT Assistance as discussed. Ralph, Good Morning! Hopefully all is well with family and you. Congratulations with your collaboration with Dragon Models! It is my hope we can proceed together so I can get my submission together for our next patch to WinSPMBT (Modernized Steel Panthers). As noted, our German OOB needs fixing. I have already indicated to the moderators/system managers that I'll be recapitalizing some existing units such as the LEOPARD 2A6 EX to up armored LEOPARD 2A6 with what I believe to be AMAP-B add on armor (I can now verify this.). Also tracking that the LEOPARD 2A7V might get the IBD SMART ProTech armor Ralphs answer I feel, has me thinking if not it, it'll be something close to it.). So, some of these questions would suffice with a simple Yes or No. I'll provide dates as we have them in the German OOB. We just use a simple Month and Year format, i.e. 12/2020. Our dates assume when the tanks became available for combat and when withdrawn from combat units. So, question #1 below will have a direct bearing on the end date for the A24/A25 tanks. A simple "Good " will work if you have no issues with the dates given below. I'm just concerned with the LEOPARD 2A4 -LEOPARD 2A7V. 1) In a national crisis would the training units' tanks be used in a possible combat situation? YES. Currently 3./Ausbildungsverband Gefechtsübungszentrum Heer has 18 of the 19 Leopard 2A5. The 19th vehicle is with the BAAINBw-(This was a critical question as was the answer "YES" in caps. Most countries to the East operate more tanks then Germany does currently ~250 all types. See Post 256 for an exact count and type/models. 2) LEOPARD 2A4 fielded in 01/1986. Withdrawn from combat units in 12/2008 (Which seems incorrect, as that's closer to when the training units stopped using them.) The first Leopard 2 was handed over to the Bundeswehr on 24 October 1979. The last Leopard 2A4 used by the 3./Ausbildungsverband Gefechtsübungszentrum Heer was withdrawn in 2008.-(I concur.) 3) LEOPARD 2A5 during or after KFOR, were they ever up armored with the "belly" steel plate for mine protection? My sources say no, we have them in the game as such. My understanding is due to the experiences of KFOR with the A24/A25, this would lead to the development of the A26M. The Leopard 2A5s were never fielded with a mine protection plate-(I've already identified those units and will upgrade them with AMAP-B where it applies based on availability.) 4) LEOPARD 2A5 fielded in 01/1996. Withdrawn from combat units in 12/2010. The Leopard 2A5s are still used by 3./Ausbildungsverband Gefechtsübungszentrum-(Refer back to Question #1.) 5) LEOPARD 2A6 fielded in 03/2001. Withdrawn from combat units in 12/2025. The last represents the end time for the game. So, you see the urgency in trying to fix what we can as we find them while still adding new and retiring other units as we find them through the web. The Leopard 2A6 will get upgraded to Leopard 2A6A3-(The LEOPARD 2A6A3 is already in service. The export LEOPARD 2A6 EX will provide me 3-4 UNITS I can modify without reinventing the wheel.) 6) LEOPARD 2A6M we don't have it in the game at all. All I can really find is that Germany had 80 built between 2004-2008. Some of these I know some were leased to Canada until they received their 2A4CAN/2A6CAN tanks. I'm assuming the BUNDESWEHR got them sometime in late 2004 or early 2005 and have no clue as to when they came out of service or were modified to another sub-variant of the 2A6. A total of 70 Leopard 2A6Ms were built in two batches (15 and 55). 20 of these Leopard 2A6Ms were leased by Canada and later one rebuilt to Leopard 2A7s. Afterwards the Bundeswehr had 49 Leopard 2A6M and one Leopard 2A6MA1 (With SEM 93 radio system) Between end 2015 and end 2017 the Leopard 2A6Ms received an upgrade like new infantry phone, SOTAS IP intercom, fire suppression system, new thermal sight for the commander, etc. During the rebuild these vehicles were designated as Leopard 2A6M+ in order to differentiate them from the Leopard 2A6Ms. After all vehicles got rebuilt they were again named Leopard 2A6M. Since 2018 the Panzerbataillon 414 field 20 Leopard 2A6MA2.-LEOPARD 2A6M will require 2 versions as they were upgraded again. 7) I'm sorry but, getting a little confusing here. If I understand the temporary designation to support the modification being the LEOPARD 2A6M+, that this tank wasn't actually fielded but, would become the LEOPARD 2A6MA2 is this correct? Also, with further upgrades added, this same tank would lead to the LEOPARD 2A6MA1 and a further upgraded LEOPARD 2A6M some time in 2018 fielded? see above-This question and answer concerning the LOEPAARD 2A6M+, has bitten us you know where in the past. THIS IS WHY WE MUST STICK TO FOC!! i.e. BOXER LANCER WAS SHOWN IN THE SUMMER 2014 at EUROSTATY ANNUAL WEAPONS SHOW. Guess when it's in the game and who doesn't have it. 8) LEOPARD 2A6M2 besides the dates for this tank, is this the one that received the same Fire Control System (FCS) as the LEOPARD 2A7? It features the cables to either integrate the German or the Dutch C4I systems as Panzerbataillon 414 is a German / Dutch unit.-This tank is the one attached attached to the combined Dutch/German Brigade. I need to look into this to see if there's more to it than that, however, it might what it is. The command as I understand it is rotated between the countries, if I verify this, does it possibly mean the Dutch should have it? This tank (C41 System) allows for total interoperability with each other's BSM/Comms Systems. 9) From the LEOPARD 2A6M on until item (8 above, we don't have any of those tanks entered by those designations or with those upgrades noted on your site and a couple of other as current as yours. 10) LEOPARD 2A7 this we have as I submitted and looks to be current as it stands now with this project. I have it fielded on 12/2014 with game end time again, 12/2025. All Leopard 2A7s will get upgraded to Leopard 2A7V- (I might be late with the date but, if I'm within the 6 month "swag", I intend to leave it alone. With going any deeper at this point it might be closer to Oct. 2014.) 11) LEOPARD 2A7V your thoughts please as to when you think it'll be fielded. And if you think I might be on the right track that it'll have the SMART ProTech armor package. Or do you think it might play more of a role in the development of the EMBT? The Leopard 2A7V will have a frontal armor for the hull and maybe some changes of the material of the turret armor but these data are classified-(Pending any newer (armor) data before submission (I expect FOC late this year, or early 2022. So I'm going to pursue SMART ProTech.) 12) Again, if you have time, I would appreciate your help with my 10/26/2020 email to you concerning mostly the BOXER as I think we have units the BUNDESWEHR hasn't ordered to this point based I what I can find. If you have any thoughts, you wish to share please feel free. I will ensure you get full credit for your assistance and your website. Your website was the one that provided me with "concrete proof" that the LEOPARD 2A7 was fielded. So, I thank you for that. Have a good day! See you were "playing" in the snow great shots!! Pat I know deletions/modifications might affect other game factors. I'm very confident the following have no active role with the BUNDESWEHR in Germany. The following is to allow you "to get ahead of the problem", if you so desire. A) LEOPARD 2A4 UNIT 268 DELETE/NONE PAST DEC 2008. Some still in storage. B) LEOPARD 2A4 REVOLUTION-Well it's gone. I know we had some discussion a few years back on this. I guess we already took care of it in each others way. C) BOXER LANCE UNIT 560 REMOVE FROM GAME PLAY. We WILL need this to model the Australian/UK (Possibly) versions. It will need to be updated to the A2 Standard at the very least and possibly ammo as well which you have some better sources then me. Those versions will have the SPIKE LR turret mounted. D) This next though addressed above the BOXER GL/AT UNIT 056, would it be easier for you to just DELETE it, then me modifying it? That's it, I don't know when the deadline is, you can just PM on that if you wish. All I can do is get going on this and hopefully it'll be ready in time. If not, it'll be posted here when I finish it. We got through our ADMIN/Minor Drill portion in good shape as far as I know. This week "The World Goes to :mean:." and I'll leave it at that as I like my job ;) and still need it to get my axx to retirement!?! :D Appointments in the morning, so Good Whatever, Wherever you are!! Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
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Pat...... WHY would I remove units that you say just need modifications ?? That's not how things work. Both of units will stay as they are for now until I can find more info. The only thing I can assume this means is the Lance version is only used by Australia and is not fielded by Germany? As well it IS already in the Australian OOB so we don't need that to model the Australian version as it's already there ( U42) Don |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
Just to make this more "fun" than it is due to info acquired over the past year the German OOB now had 2 Leopard 2A6M's.
The first one is U35 with 50 FC and 6 stab and the second is U37 with 55 FC and 7 stab so keep that in mind that you will not show those in your OOB. In yours they are just A6's and the in-out dates are a bit different and as well U31 (Leopard 2A5) and U32 (Leopard 2A5-S) have been removed as has the 2A4 U268. |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
BOXERS-CORRECT, Germany does not operate the LANCE/or AT version. And what is in the OOB is the A0 version.
Australia will operate the LANCE w/SPIKE LR ATGW (2) along with APC and other versions. Their BOXERS are still in Manufacturer Trails and the Army just started training on them. I'm not seeing them before Oct. 2021 earliest. Even at that we'll still need to modify them because the ONLY BOXER in production is the A2 version now. That's what their getting and UK (First deliveries test beds sometime in 2023.) I'm tracking Australia very closing as I receive their official Army paper in my email, as I've pointed out in the past. So to be clear... 1. BOXERs for Germany, will all be left in for me to modify. I'll be adding about 5-6 more to represent the A1 AND A2 versions that include weapon station changes as well. 2. You got the LEOPARD 2A6M tanks covered, that being said, I'm giving you my I was looking at for the 2 versions. Remember we had this discussion when I first posted my tank questions to Ralph before he answered them, in here. Your response said it all to that Post so those tanks as far as dates were concerned was the first thing I researched across all my sources, they're free to use or not. Original LEOPARD 2A6M START 10/2004/or JAN 2005 and the END 06/2018 Upgraded LEOPARD 2A6M START 06/2018 and of course END 12/2025. For those that haven't been following along Germany took the LEOPARD 2A6M give it 2 separate upgrade production designations as the LEOPARD 2A6M+A1 and the LEOPARD 2A6M+. The dates above reflect the upgrade period, lead back to the following new and "old" designations of LEOPARD 2A6A1 (New Commanders version. Which I do not intend to submit as the following is the same tank.) ) and back again to the LEOPARD 2A6M again. I would ask to leave the first at TI/GSR 40. It would be the later LEOPARD 2A6 and other that benefitted from ATTICA FCS. I'm trying to keep separation with these FCS's as best as I can. We have self imposed TI'GSR 60 as max for tanks, that works and I'll need it for my LEOPARD 2A7V built. I've been thinking about this for a while that in case of "mission creep" I might need to increase the TI/GSR on the LEOPARD 2A7. I've talked about it, but we never addressed the German ATTICA FCS in the game and TI/GSR 45/or 50 for that FCS works for me. We have to coordinate on this issue 45 or 50 for ATTICA so that I can proceed accordingly. I'll need your numbers for that system so my tanks with match yours. I gotta get dinner and enjoy the rest of this evening as I'm sure the "fun and games" might alter my mood through the week. Australia from March 2019 through October 2020. Looking at the JANE's ref bottom maybe JAN 2022 better START date. https://www.armyrecognition.com/marc...einmetall.html https://www.armyrecognition.com/sept..._vehicles.html https://www.armyrecognition.com/june...v_program.html https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe..._underway.html https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...oured-vehicles Regards, Pat :capt: |
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Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
Thanks! Your 50 will represent ATTICA as it should.
At your convenience, please send me your FCS numbers for the upgraded LEOPARD 2A6M when your happy with them. I'll need them for parity between yours and mine with ATTICA FCS. ATTICA FCS: TI/GSR 50/FCXX/LASER R/F XX and STABILIZER X. Mine for "sake of argument" just to see how we're thinking together on this, mine would've been... ATTICA FCS MINE: TI/GSR 50/FC 50/55/LASER R/F 22 and STABILIZER 6. That's a lot better then saying "Hey! That's what I was thinking it should be also!" The above is much more honest. ;) Made a change to 401K gotta make sure my payroll deduction %'s for each fund didn't change OMG! 20MINUTES BEFORE THEY CLOSE!!!!! Regards,, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
https://www.overtdefense.com/2020/03...ility-reduced/
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Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
Well they'll (Australia) will still get some just not as many maybe since it appears no final decision has been made yet. Also we've got time as they're not fielded yet.
As noted watching events here closely as for other developments to include M1A1 upgrade to a SEP variant, Down selecting the APACHE AH-64E (We might not see this.) and of course the BOXER. Going back to my successful contact with their MOD (M1A1/Vietnam era Armor TO&E etc.), I've subscribed to their official newspaper. And, NO this isn't like "our" AIR FORCE/ARMY/MARINE/NAVY Times before anyone says anything. APACHE issue on Page 2 of the current issue of below ref. https://www.defence.gov.au/news/armynews/ Of course I'll use all my other resources as well. The above I've found to be very forthright in their reporting. My time is up. There's heightened World tensions out there right now. Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
I've "mulled" this over for sometime and have hinted about the necessity of a "Plan B" in this thread and in passing in probably in the MBT Thread as well, that being said, I will not press myself to meet a deadline I now know I can't deliver on.
My main objective German OOB) is still being worked, though slowly but, it progresses none the less. I'm not going into details or providing excuses, it'll be Plan B and that's that. I know Don (Andy) has other concerns he can deal with at this moment in time over the next couple of weeks before they go into "final production" of the Patch over the next few weeks. My apologies to all. Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
Don,
I came across the ref below while reading "my papers" and found the topic interesting of the ARIETE firing a drone from its MG. But "silly me" just kept on reading the @!&***+=! article. The wash out is MODIFYING 2 UNITS and DELETING 2 UNITS. Please don't do anything, I've already started the submissions to include my refs. I'm just tired, I never sleep well when "someone" is away and you know what's up. So here's the offending ref along with the following from the real (Accept no substitutions.) Italian Army. I'm silly typing time to finish... https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...m_its_gun.html http://www.esercito.difesa.it/equipa...ne/ariete.aspx Later today is a "wash" as you know, though I might manage to get it closer to finished. Let me know if you want this and your "drop dead date" via alternate OPSEC PM. It can also wait to be part of the PLAN B packages if you don't want to deal with this. I'm looking to keep and modifying UNITS 024 & 025 based on the references I have, as they represent the "best match" for the data. This is another case of a weapons Program Getting Cancelled. Don't read; it's bad for your health and makes you start crazy things!?! :doh: ;) :eek: :rolleyes: Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
I will be starting the final assembly of the upgrades by the end of the week then the final testing starts and to be quite frank I have little interest in last minute rushed changes to the OOB's. That's what turns into an "oops" a month later so if you have something on Italian units 24 and 25 make it quick and above all make it clear and simple. I do not want to wade through multiple links to dig out info. All I got from those two links was there is no C2 but C2s are 24 and 26 so I don't see how that affects 24 and 25. What is seems is there are Ariete upgrades to the basic model
And on top of that we have "C3's in 620 and 621 and "C4s" in 625 and 626 with a 122 L55 gun upgrade no doubt because someone gave us " good intel" that they were going into service and we couldn't find any evidence at the time they weren't The bottom line is you have three days tops to get me the info and yes, I understand what all is going on at your end. Forget about the Leo issues that is done and dusted for this year. After any adjustment to the Ariete I have to check if any were used in scenarios and all of that eats up hours. The good news for me there is there are few scenarios in MBT that involve Italy and it appears none of them use the Ariete. One final note. I see that these were set up with + versions using added armour and "plain" versions without it. At the time that *May* have been perfectly accurate in the mind of the guy who originally built the OOB but this is a GAME and in a game nobody goes into "combat" with a tank without the add on armour so my first instinct is to rip out everything without the add on package AFTER the initial release model. Oto Melara developed two different sets with different thickness-levels that can be adjusted to the nature of the mission but ALL we are interested in is the max armour protection that can be applied and those packages were first used in 2003. Assume for certain the "C4" in slot 625 and 626 with the L55 are now gone and it seems clear there is no need for a "C?" designation..... there are just Arietes. FURTHER EDIT Pat..... I'm going to save you ( and me ) stress neither of us needs ATM. I have reviewed what we have and info I have dug up on line and have condensed the Ariete line to four versions with progressive upgrades and next year when hopefully things are more or less normal you can tell me if its close enough or not. I do know that it's closer than we had. All models after 2000 have the added armour package which was designed around that time and in-service date is now a more correct 1995 On top of that I just discovered the "GALIX" is just another version of what we call VRRS and are only combat smoke and acoustic flash-bangs for crowd control. They are not an active "HE kill" weapon Quote:
https://www.lacroix-defense.com/prod...and&code=galix .... so is superflous on any vehicle with VRRS and has now been removed and the damned thing is in five OOB's ( I had a MUCH different day planned...........) |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
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You're in for so many "fun" times! If I may make a suggestion (or four). #1 - Weapon changes/additions/deletions #2 - Unit changes/additions/deletions #3 - Only now worry about formations #4 - Always keep in mind changes to FORMATION dates require alterations to the piclists. So even if you need introduce/delete formations a couple years earlier/later then they historically exist try to "group" formation introduction/deletion around set dates that will be used when piclists are modified. |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
I don't think he's contemplating a "USMC" type redo......at least I hope not. Once was enough
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Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
Where to start...
1. Don my apologies, my first instinct was just not to post anything concerning the ARIETE, I REALLY didn't want you to touch it. I'll take responsibility for that. I had already stated I knew things were getting close, I just misjudged the timing. In the future, I think it best if I see an issue to proceed and do the the work in a "quiet" manner. 2. Suhiir, are you kidding me!?! When I read that post, I don't know but I'll be nice and just say "BOY WAS I UNHAPPY"!!! In all the years I've been submitting my submissions out here, if you or anyone else think for one second, that I don't fully take into account the amount of work required by Don, once he excepts (And if you took the time to bounce my submissions against the affected OOB's you might be surprised at what you find.) my info I FULLY UNDERSTAND Don will have to every aspect of said equipment, wherever it exists within the game. And because I'm not smart enough to realize this, I guess that would include a simple "Date Change" as well!?! :eek: :rolleyes: Should've read into Don's Post after my last, you might never have posted your last. Bad timing on your part!! 3. Don and Suhiir, LEOPARDS and BOXERS, as Don knows and I have a long record of doing so, concerning equipment where for instance there is conflicting data, I've reached out to MOD mostly and at rare times to other sources that have direct access and sources within X countries military, most recently and as posted Ralph Zwelling who certainly does have that access within the BUNDESWEHR. The rest you know about my refs though to tackle the afore mentioned, I've found no less then 4 new references all from Germany with no translation required (Don likes that sort of thing!). So think of all the "FUN" Don and I had with ABRAMS (Last year or year before.) except and again as already posted I'm starting from the LEOPARD 2A4 and up. On cursory examination the earlier LEOPARDS I believe are fine. I've come across Date/Armor/Survivability and FCS issues. The email exchanges are very telling in the direction I knew already I had go in, based on the questions I asked Ralph and from my German based sources. Don got ahead of me on this based on my posts and has made some changes and added a couple of new tanks, it just made my job easier but as I know Don does with my submissions and as I started the work with additional notes, well we've always managed a compromise at minimum and I would expect no less later on. Concerning BOXER's you can expect at least 6 new build versions. The others will see modifications some as noted above with addition of weapons as one doesn't exist within the BUNDESWEHR as currently armed which will be modified with the correct weapon. Not as many tanks involved as there was with the ABRAMS where as Don is well aware, I went through +$%^&* tank in the OOB. Half at least were "game legacy" issues from the previous owners. I want to make abundantly clear to everyone, every major "redo" isn't because I'm sitting here on my AXX, with nothing better to do. They've occurred mostly from reading my "papers" like what just happened with the ARIETE if you read that article as posted. Sometimes I'll hear from a player or see something posted. I make no apologies for my methods my attention to detail is fine tuned from my military career. I can't let my guard down as a "civilian" due to the nature of my job. I WILL COME HOME AT THE END OF MY WORKDAY. Things have over the years already at our bases as matter of public record. And I don't subscribe to "It can never happen here" because NEVER can happen anytime on any given day. I'm really a tired nice guy but, play is play and work is work. And this is work, which for the most part I enjoy. Priorities Family/Health/Retirement Goals/Work and the rest, as they say "I just let the chips fall where they may." Now it's off to bed, company leaving in the morning, And back to work this afternoon. Suhiir you're still my MARINE Buddy but REALLY!?! Now I'm done!! Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
Actually if my post dissuaded you, or anyone else, from considering (even in the back of your/their mind) such a redo of an OOB I call it a success! ;)
And I don't, nor should anyone, expect Don to put in the amount of effort needed for such a redo. It's far more work then most begin to realize. I've "owned" the USMC OOB since it was rebuilt, blame any and all problems solely on me. Changes to weapons (that don't require the addition/deletion of a unit class) and units themselves (that again don't alter the the availability dates of an entire unit class) are fairly easy (if sometimes time consuming when it comes to updating WinSPMBTs several hundred scenarios). YOU know this Fastboat, and I know you do. My post was pointed at you but directed to the community at large. Consider yourself caught in the crossfire. Friendly fire isn't! |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
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The change to the Ariete gets rid of a number of speculative versions and it gets an icon upgrade
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1617219178 The old turret was about 18 inches ( RL ) too short. 10 years ago I didn't have a good top view to scale from |
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Very well done! What I also like is how you "captured" that unusual leading edge on the frontal arc with that "design" on it.
Pictures from Military-Today site for illustration purposes... Attachment 16354 Attachment 16355 Much improved over current one. Thanks! Regards, Pat :capt: |
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I wish to confirm the following "work" issue...
X-Country has both an APC/IFV and MBT with a SURVIVABILTY of 5. So X-Country will be deploying said equipment above to an IED/Mine environment and decided to add Steel Armor (Plates etc.) to the "bellies" of those units deploying. Using "KISS", is it safe to assume, that the SURVIVABILTY would increased to 6? That's my thinking anyway. Just wanting to establish some "groundwork" is all. Regards, Pat :capt: |
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If it's just the belly then sure I could see it going up to 6 as needed but only for the scenario not as a production run thing, unless that becomes something that is done at the factory. We learned the hard way the soft vehicles like PLSs and HMMVs etc...need armor. What we got post-welded plate was TARDAC kits of limited ballistic glass and door armor with some armor under the driver and TC sides of the vehicle. Then came the other thins like up-armored 1151s and 1152s. So if it's for a scenario, I say yes it would, but not for a final run thing. |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
6 will allow the vehicle and the crew a better chance of surviving over a 5 and a 7 makes the vehicle an MRV
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Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
Thanks! I just wanted to verify no other "variables" came into play and that it was just simple "KISS" involved issue.
Of course I do look at STANAG stats for a given vehicle when the issue pops up. Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
Lots going on with our house, our Grand Daughter Graduating H.S. (AWESOME!! and with honors!!) which means I'll be "dark for 2 weeks" (And no work!! :D) soon and finally trying to get MANY things done in here, so PLEASE, Thread rules apply here. THANK YOU!!
Concerning German OOB work, specifically GTK BOXER. The current weapons systems are the FLW-100 and FLW-200. Issue: The FLW-100 has a known "BLIND SPOT" on for GTK BOXER caused by a design flaw in the RWS Pedestal Mount. It sits too low. The fix came with the FLW-200 with a taller Pedestal mount and some other minor improvements. Both are still in service. My intended fix is to use a distinction between the two by penalizing the FLW-100 in it's TI/GSR. Though I can easily justify TI/GSR 60 for both, for now I'm thinking FLW-100 TI/GSR 45 and FLW-200 TI/GSR 50. If your good with FLW-200 @ TI/GSR 60, I'll make the corresponding change to the other as demonstrated above. Again I can easily support this. Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
Here's my thinking concerning BOXER FLW-100/200 (And investigating use of FLW-200 Plus w/Dual fed 20mm HE/AP mixed ammo load.)
GTK BOXER A0: Armed with early version FLW-100 12.7mm or 40mm/GSR 40./SURVIBILITY 5 GTK BOXER A1: Armed with improved FLW-100 same weapons/GSR 45/SURVIBILITY 6 & 7. The A1 when they deployed to Afghanistan were fitted by KMW with "belly armor" steel plate (Not in the field.), which will mean 2 additional units, 4 total for the A1 version. GTK BOXER A2: Armed with improved FLW-200 and as noted above, the FLW-200 Plus./GSR 50/SURVIBILITY 7. Current improved variant, based on "lessons learned" from the BOXER AO/A1 previous deployments to Afghanistan. 1. I'm seeing the addition of up to 6 more BOXERS. 2. There will be date changes to the right for the existing in game units outside of our "Wag", for everyone else, that's 6 months when we have conflicting dates. That being said, these are again driven by when the Training unit first got their FIRST one OR when the combat unit got their FIRST one. 3. I suspect there'll be other modifications as well. 4. From the BUNDESWEHR website, I'll be submitting around 3-5 new combat vehicles NOT currently in the OOB. 5. Some explanation in my last Posts in here on BOXER, I felt that GSR 60 was a legitimate number for the FLW-200 weapon system. After some thought and just reaching a decision earlier today, I decided against it. Why? Rightly or wrongly, that's because that's where our most modern/newest tanks in or about to be in are currently in the game. I might be corrected on this notion, but I generally see the newest APC/IFV at (At their upper limit #) GSR 50/55 (w/ATGW). HEAVY IFV GSR 55/60 these are normally your "tank killers" with same for all wheeled or tracked "tanks". AH Helos GSR 70. This if you consider ALL aspects of the running game environment and internal operating systems (Mostly Game Code.) 6. I finally with this "sign of life" would ask that PLEASE DO NOT GET AHEAD OF ME ON THIS. I already know, I need to modify the tanks as submitted in the last Patch. 7. This will almost or be in the same vain, be similar to TURKEY, INDIA, MALAYSIA, INDONESIA AND USA/USMC in scope. However the big difference is at least I knew it was coming. unlike above, it was more a matter of a piece(s) of equipment causing me to go down the rabbit hole in the above countries i.e. M1A1 FEP, LEOPARD 2T (DOA to ALTAY) etc. All legitimate issues that however, all required "looking back to look forward" I think most know what I mean here. Time for my WALK!!! :D Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
HOUSE RULES STILL APPLY HERE! IF UNSURE I REFER YOU TO POST #1 Para 1. THANK YOU!!
THIS AS MUCH FOR MY FUTURE TRACKING PURPOSES AS IT IS FOR YOUR READING PLEASURE. As I've already noted some work here. This does clear up a couple of questions in my head mainly what equipment are the Ukrainian forces training on both Germany and UK? The answer appears to the Heavy Artillery (100 Panzerhaubitze PzH 2000 155mm tracked self-propelled howitzers & AS90 155mm tracked self-propelled howitzers) those countries are providing. Just thinking "out loud" here wonder if any Ukrainian personnel are learning on the German LEO 1A4/5 or GEPARD. Time will tell. Also note, not that I ever read anything before I post it, the first UK date should read as February vice March. U.S. 121 "Phoenix Ghost" unmanned aerial systems, they were originally designed for the USAF sometime before the war and have been modified "slightly" to support Ukrainian operations. As effective as the "Switchblade" has been against heavy armor, it's been "suggested" the "Phoenix Ghost" might more so. https://fortune.com/2022/04/22/phoen...a-ukraine-war/ https://www.flightglobal.com/militar...431965f1bf988c The article: https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukra...o_ukraine.html Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
The "Mission Statement" generally takes more time especially with the topic below and as such is done now and posted below. Most know I'm a "deep digger" one it's ingrained to my DNA even prior to my military career further I owe it to Don and more importantly you the player.
I check on game reviews and the consistent remarks made about BOTH games are the level of research and updates made to these games. We've accrued other accolades; however, none is more important than those mentioned above as they're the only ones that I can make my contribution to the game and players. Be patient, the below is "proof of life" and hopefully the rest will come along soon. But for tonight this is it. Patch Post #1 for the 2022/2023 Campaign Page 1. Well, it’s been a while in fact the 2019/2020 Patch Submission was my last in this thread or at least in my Word files. So, with that be said there are “HOUSE RULES” in play here if unfamiliar please refer to POST #1 of this Thread. This in short is where Don and I hash things out and unlike “standard” post this is a living document and Thread for us to work through any issues to what I’ve posted. Look in all you want just don’t post anything in here please – thank you. My primary mission here is to address the Russian donation of armored units primarily to the Ukraine since the war started on 24 February 2022 to the present. Methodology is discussed somewhat in the MBT Thread in Posts #1416 and #1425 after which I had a significant life event happen that delayed me until now. To avoid the player from buying an “unlimited” single tanks and to keep to the reality of what’s going on the battlefield you will not for instance see the T-90M on my list as of this date only 5 totaled were either damaged/destroyed (3) with (2) captured in almost factory new condition which I’ve discussed several times in the MBT thread. So, what did I do? FIRST As noted above with the T-90M, you won’t see Russian BMP-1/2 OR 3, T-72A etc.. However, you will see the Russian T-62M/MV as the Ukrainians don’t have any stockpiled but fielded a Battalion of them in late November. Also, the Russians used a different ATGW on theirs as well. SECOND I spent HOURS reviewing videos and photographs. THIRD I set a standard for how many units would make the work and game worth having. I feel after MUCH thought the following was both practical and realistic to the war situation factoring numbers, condition of the units, estimated repair times and training which in most cases would’ve been minimal. That standard was based on the ability to field a minimum of 2 Platoons plus 1 as a “reserve” or if you will “2+1” . Fourth I further spent time with both OOB’s the purpose was to “whittle down” the number of candidates for this submission. If the captured tank was at parity with a current Ukrainian unit, I scratched it from the list. Result: I’m looking at 10 Russian tanks and 2 APCs and a date CHANGE for 1 Ukrainian APC. With a SMALL number of administrative changes for Unit names and dates. START dates will both be based on 2+1 as noted above and the dates of picture/video range from the CAPTURED tank section ONLY. Also, I offer Ukrainian Units as near peer ones to the Russian one submitted. Those Ukrainian units are already on paper, and the Russian tanks will generally be better overall. I would find those dates “fell in” very closely in most cases to the actual operational dates in numbers and also, WELL within Dons and my “SWAG” when info isn’t always definitive. Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
BACK TO WORK TODAY WILL DO MY BEST TO ANSWER ANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS QUICKLY. Here is the rest as a continuation of the previous Post.
Patch Post #1 for the 2022-2023 Campaign Page 2. A quick update, early this morning (Week ago almost.) and revisited the ORNX site since I looked into this last in November. Tanks that saw increases in captured tanks will be marked with a [B+” [/b]. The Russian tanks that saw the largest “captured” increases by several were the T-72B3M (As to be corrected below.) and the T-80BV. Also, to update the T-90M stats now show 9 T-90M: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (1, damaged) (2, damaged) (3, damaged) (1, damaged and abandoned) (1, captured) (2, captured) as of today. Also, for current/future players should we consider something such (C), 22 or CAP to denote their captured status after their “name”? The (31) after the name by example, shows how many were captured (2+1) of each unit. The [BPVR” [/b] means Photo Video Range by dates. As discussed in Page 1 this will set my START dates unless I have better data. UKRAINE/CHANGE/T-62MV/UNIT 023/STEEL TF 36/HEAT HF 35/TF 43/PARITY ISSUE/T-62MV SAME MBT BOTH COUNTRIES ARMOR WISE. // RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-62MV/UNIT 023/STEEL HS 10/HEAT HS 13/TS 21/TOP 6/PARITY ISSUE/T-62MV SAME MBT BOTH COUNTRIES ARMOR WISE. //These tanks were I believe both designed and built in what was then Soviet occupied Ukraine. The Ukrainian tanks were "inherited" after the Soviet Empire collapsed. There are no differences between them. UKRAINE/ADD/T-62M (33) +/COPY/RUSSIAN UNIT 021/PVR MAR10-NOV13 2022/START/N0V 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNIT 022. // UKRAINE/ADD T-62MV (8) +/COPY/RUSSIAN RIVISED UNIT 023/PVR APR10-NOV11 2022/START/NOV 2022. // The Ukraine just literally got rid of all their T-62 tanks except for the ones on display in museums and parks ~25 years ago. Though Ukrainian UNIT 022 was actually better in the T-62M1 BDD version which apparently Russia had as well. Also, it appears Russia will be bringing back a slightly modified version of the Russian T-62M1 BDD as part of 800 T-62 modernization Program to start later this year. ****** The question “hanging in the air” is do we add the T-62M1 BDD to the Russian OOB as copied from the Ukraine OOB as they had it? ****** https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukra...sian_army.html https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...91e1803f05bb9e https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...-losses-report https://weaponsystems.net/system/634-T-62M http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t62.htm Page 3. RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-72AV/UNIT 033/START/JAN 1988 VICE JAN 1985/PER REFS AT END. // RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-72B/UNIT 036/START JUN 1989 VICE JAN 1988/END/DEC 2025 VICE DEC 1992/PER REFS AT END. // Going with USA date. https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/mediawi...ttle_Tank_(MBT) http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/MBT/t-72bm.htm (This ref. not updated since 2000. See very bottom of page.) UKRAINE/ADD/T-72B (65) +/COPY/RUSSIAN REVISED UNIT 036/PVR MAR20-NOV29 2022/START JUL 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNIT 033. // RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-72B1M/UNIT 045/RENAME/T-72B3/START/JAN 2013 VICE JAN 2012/ADD/ATGW 9M119 AT-11 SVIR OR 9M119M REFLEKKS/HAS APS ARENA/TI/GSR 40 VICE 45/MG 125mm 2A46M-5 VICE 125mm GUN 05. // One of few Russian tanks that can use more than one ATGW. TI/GSR changed to maintain separation with the T-72B3M as submitted below, that tank currently represents the APEX” in T-72 design. However, I feel the rest of the FCS should remain unchanged. The Contract wasn’t signed until 2012 to begin the modernization program. By the end of 2013 a total of 270 units were produced. This tank as it stands compares "nicely” against the current Russian T-73B3 UNIT 697. RUSSIA/DELETE/T-72B1M/UNIT 047/TANK DOES NOT EXIST/NOT NEEDED FOR T-73B3/ALL T-72B3 HAVE APS ARENA INSTALLED. // See MBT Post # 1459 for further. As a postscript to that post, what I just did above I had written down almost a week ago-listen to that inner voice. Also due to that post, RUSSIAN/T-72BM/UNIT 037/I’VE LEFT IT UNCHANGED. https://weaponsystems.net/system/1410-T-72B3 https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...act_sheet.html UKRAINE/ADD/T-72B3 (83) +/COPY/RUSSIAN REVISED UNIT 045/PVR MAR07-DEC01 2022/START AUG 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNITS 042 & 043. // RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-72B3/UNIT 697/RENAME/T-72B3M. // As discussed in the MBT Thread, I unintentionally named this tank incorrectly when submitted during the 2013/2014 Patch Campaign. UKRAINE/ADD/T-72B3M (100) +/COPY/RUSSIAN REVISED UNIT 697/PVR MAR02-DEC28 2022/START AUG 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNITS 061 & 063. // https://weaponsystems.net/system/1410-T-72B3 https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ..._pictures.html http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t72b4.htm ******ORNX would report that there are currently 102 T-72 variants which they haven’t been able to classify with 80 Destroyed/16 Damaged/1 Damaged & Abandoned and 5 Captured. I call this journalistic “integrity”. ****** Page 4 RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-80BV/UNIT 040/END/DEC 2025 VICE DEC 1992. // This tank is very much still in service. Also, it’s confirmed that to date 199 been destroyed, damaged, and abandoned with 77 captured by Ukraine. However newer pictures seem to show it with Kontakt-5 ERA package. https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...res_video.html https://weaponsystems.net/system/832-T-80BV http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t80b.htm RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-80BVM/UNIT 046/FC 45 VICE 50/STABILIZER 5 VICE 6 .//Earlier models had a passive defensive system VRISS per refs. ALSO “In 2018 a first batch of 31 T-80BV tanks was upgraded to the T-80BVM standard. These operational tanks were first publicly revealed during a military parade in 2018. However, these initial tanks lacked some features of the T-80BVM demonstrator that was revealed in 2017.” In 2019 31 T-80BV tanks were too be updated to the modernized version of the T-80BVM based on the above mentioned 2017 demonstrator. That would be UNIT 048 below. http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t80bvm.htm https://weaponsystems.net/system/835-T-80BVM RUSSIA/CHANGE/T-80BVM/UNIT 048/ START/JAN 2020 VICE OCT 2018/TI/GSR 45 VICE 40/SURVIABILITY 5 VICE 4/ADD/ARENA APS SYSTEM//. Upon review of the ORNX pictures where the turrets aren’t too badly damaged, they are ALL clearly showing me the mast used for the ARENA APS. There’s only 2 trains of thought here 1. All got the ARENA APS installed SINCE 2020. 2. Russia ONLY committed those tanks with the ARENA APS to the war while the T-80BVM not equipped are “elsewhere”. At this time I feel we should leave BOTH these tanks in and go with thought #2 as there is no evidence to the contrary. https://tass.com/defense/1098733 UKRAINE/ADD/T-80BVM (32) +)/COPY/REVISED RUSSIAN UNIT 048/PVR MAR04-DEC22 2022/START/AUG 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNIT 046. // RUSSIA/DELETE/T-90A/UNIT 052/PER REFS T-90A ONLY EQUIPPED WITH SHORTORA-1 VIRSS SYSTEM.// “T-90A also has a laser warning system and an aerosol-generating system that uses 3D17 grenades of 902A Tucha (Cloud) designation.” UKRAINE/ADD/T-90A (12) +/COPY/RUSSIAN UNIT 051/ERA/VERFY KONTAKT-5/ERA NUMBERS LOOK HIGH FOR IT/PVR FEB27-SEP30/START/JUL 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNIT 064. // https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...ical_data.html http://www.military-today.com/tanks/t90.htm https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...er-syria-53907 ******ORNX would report that there are currently 180 Unknown tank: Variants (Mine-Based on placement on the list, I’ll assume these cover all T-80 and T-90 types.) which they haven’t been able to classify with 165 Destroyed/10 Damaged/3 Damaged & Abandoned and 2 Abandoned. I call this again journalistic “integrity”. ****** Page 5 Russian Captured APCs UKRAINE/ADD/BTR-82A (122)/COPY/RUSSIAN UNIT 700/PVR FEB28 2022-JAN02 2023/START/JUN 2022. // The advantages should be obvious for the Ukrainians here the armor is heavier than most of their wheeled APC’s and I don’t believe they have any APC type with a TI/GSR 50. https://postlmg.cc/xqKNpbWM (This was a little unusual from ALL the pictures I looked at as it came with a story.) https://weaponsystems.net/system/123-BTR-82 https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/mediawi...l_Carrier_(APC) https://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_82.htm UKRAINE/ADD/BMD-4M (11)/COPY/RUSSIAN UNIT 668 (or 341)/PVR MAR-APR 2022/START/MAY 2022/NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNITS 333 & 345. //Heavier weapons package against both. As compared to Peer Unit 333 its better protected. Against Peer Unit 345 its FCS is almost superior. http://www.military-today.com/apc/bmd_4m.htm https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ..._pictures.html ****** ORNX Reports Infantry Fighting Vehicles (1912, of which destroyed: 1210, damaged: 46, abandoned: 77, captured: 577) ****** UKRAINE/ADD/BTR-80A (61)/COPY/RUSSIAN UNIT 211/PVR MAR04-DEC06 2022/START/AUG 2022 /NEAR PEER/UKRAINIAN UNIT 307.// Again this unit is better than its Ukrainian counterpart with its weapons configuration and heavier armor by offering a HEAT package. https://weaponsystems.net/system/122-BTR-80A https://www.armyrecognition.com/russ...icle_data.html http://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_80a.htm ****** ORNX Reports Armoured Personnel Carriers (289, of which destroyed: 177, damaged: 5, abandoned: 12, captured: 95) ****** This concludes my Ukrainian capture list of Russian armor. ODDS AND ENDS UKRAINE/ADD/T-55S/ORIGIN/SLOVINIA/NO OOB/NEW BUILD/START JAN 2022/END DEC 2025/CREW 4/CARRY 0/SPEED 50 km/h/SWIM 0/EW 4 VRISS/RADIO 90/VISION TI/GSR 40/MG/105mm RO L7/RDS 36 (+UK SUPPLIED)/COAX 7.62mm/RDS 2800/ROOF 12.7mm (KORD?)/RDS 250 READY/NO ATGW/FC 45/LRF 22/STABILISER 4 OR 5/SURVIVABILITY 5/ NOTE: FCS HAS HUNTER KILLER FULL CAPIBILTY/NOTE: TO ASSIST IN NEXT VALUES USED UKRAINIAN UNITS 014 & 073 BASELINE/STEEL HF 50 HS 12 HR 6 TF 50 TS 18 TOP 10/HEAT 55 HS 15 HR 8/10 TF 55 TS 18 TOP 10/NOTE: THE CLOSEST MATCH IN TIME AND HAVING THE SUPER BLAZER ERA IS GB UNIT 062 CHALLENGER TES/ERA HF 15 HS 15 HR 4 TF 15 TS 15 TOP 10/UKRAINIAN SLAT ARMOR ON TANK REAR AREA see Ref 4/ROF 6.//I accept some of the above might change but I’ve done the best I can with the very limited information out there. The SUPER BLAZER ERA is (Page 6) stout even by today’s standards unsure what ERA Ukraine added or where. But you normally don’t go backwards. SP and SPAA Developments Tread Post #240 https://militaryleak.com/2022/09/21/...ks-to-ukraine/ https://mezha.media/en/2022/09/20/th...-armed-forces/ http://www.army-guide.com/eng/produc...of%20the%20jet. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ks/ar-AA15WpCv (This ref justifies START/UNIT IN TRAINING/Lead picture shows rear SLAT ARMOR “The new photos reveal recent additions to the M-55Ss: explosive reactive armor and slat armor on the hulls.”) USMC/CHANGE/ALL FEP-T/UNITS 846, 847, 848, 849, 851 & 852/REMOVE CIWS TROPHY APS. // There were only 2-5 USMC M1A1 tanks involved in a joint test with the USA involving the “Proof of Concept” to determine the feasibility and testing of the TROPHY APS and to address any compatibility issues in mating our systems to it. The tests were successful HOWEVER the USMC was already in the beginning stages of PLAN 2030 which as we know now had the tanks near or at the top of the list to remove. The USA proceeded onward and in a manner of speaking so did the USMC in preparing to send their tanks back to the USA and “Sun setting” all their armor and maintenace support units. As you will see below the “timeline” doesn't support APS. https://www.defense-aerospace.com/us...-for-m1-tanks/ https://armyrecognition.com/april_20..._21504162.html 15 October 2019… https://www.joint-forces.com/defence...y-aps-delivery 24 March 2020… https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...e-corps-tanks/ (Note front of the turret. No APS Sensor.) 21 JULY 2020… https://www.businessinsider.com/mari...talions-2020-7 (Note the caption of top picture and turret as well.) 06 DEC 2020… https://news.yahoo.com/tank-marines-...131331371.html (Original Military.com article. Note picture same as above.) 08 January 2021… https://www.defenceprocurementintern...d-leonardo-drs I was going to do a little more here, but as my “Marine Buddy” knows I’ve been sitting on this for about 3 years now. Why now well assuming Andy and Don are still willing, it won’t be long before we’ll be “sun setting” ourselves. IF all goes well, you have to remember after this Patch, there’ll ONLY AT BEST THREE LEFT the FINAL one WITH Andy, Don and GOD willing WILL BE THE 2025-2026 Campaign (And besides Don, I know a special handful of others understand why I’ve called it a CAMPAIGN all these years.) Lastly, I want to THANK Suhiir for trusting me after discussing it, to allow to build those tanks initially and some other things she ALLOWED me to do in her OOB (Don’t kid yourselves, it’s hers alright!) of course, there was a downside because we ended up having to redo to some extent almost every ABRAMS in the game in the 2019/2020 Campaign. Regards, Pat :capt: |
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
I will begin to wade through this later this week........
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Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
Thank you for all this valuable information Fastboat.
Does an icon exist for the M-55S by any chance? |
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