Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

We never told We do this out of humanity.
Ulm will remember Our short discussion of this.
We told him Jotun is getting too strong, and asked what we should do against it.
His proposal was seizing Ermorian provinces as long as it was still possible.
We had our doubts, would have preferred to aid Ermor with money, gems and diplomacy. Next turn Ermor declared its own death and we tried to scavenge from their remains what we could. TC and Jotun viciously defended their prey diplomatically. When Ermor showed vital signs again, We corrected Our mistake and opted for assistance of Ermor. That was the only moment when We changed the course of Our actions drastically.
We never said this was out of humanity, it is an action to contain Jotun expansion. In all this T'ien Ch'i didn't play a big role in our calculations, as We, no offense, just don't see them as a threat.

All told, Man has never broken it's word, and that is more than there is to say of T'ien Ch'i:

Quote:Originally Posted by triqui

Jotun and TC made a treaty with me about borders. They planned to attack me. Tien chi told me Jotun had a plan against me. He offered to join me and betray Jotun for 400g. I paid, and in the next turn both attacked me. I felt wronged by TC. I paid for something, and I got cheated.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Well, We thought our long friendship would account for more, than the sweet cheaptalking from the ruler of some backwood wannabe empire.
We do not take well to threats, but in appreciation of our friendship we will think about it and inform you in due time.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

I'm sure T'ien thought similarly.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Ad hominem, much? It is true that we of T'ien Ch'i are small, weak and likely not long for this world. However, our decline is not because of some moral deficiency, nor is our talk any "cheaper" because of our low province-count.

We fell so low because we joined up against the preeminent power of the time, shouldering the majority of the cost, loss and risk of hobbling Ermor, while Man was off fighting a far lesser foe and biding their time. We would have risen back up but we were ultimately denied the fruits of our labor by Man's intervention.

There are only two things that went wrong for T'ien Ch'i: Ermor fighting the good fight all the way down and Man jumping up and down on us after the fact. We are backwater because of you so we find your indictment somewhat silly.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

HEY! I was a real empire. Once upon a time. :rolleyes:

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

I was more talking about Man, but I guess that works for you as well.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Oh, I thought you meant when I was crying for help like a baby. Bassically what Tien Chi is doing now :p.

I don't get all the fuss about this :confused:. It's obvious that T'Chi is going to try anything to convince Ulm to attack Man, for the same reasons I tried everything I could to get Man involved in the war too. And Ulm will enter in the war (or not), when he finds it suitable to his own interests, using Tien Chi as an excuse of cassus belli. But the real reason to attack Man (or not doing so) would be his chances to win the game doing so. Exactly like Man did with my ask. Which is exactly what I would had done if I were in Ulm's (or Man's) position. And I suspect Tien Chi (or anyone else) would do the same too. Everything else is hypcr... err... diplomacy I mean.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Of course, all diplomacy in Dominions 3 is a farce. We're just busting Man because he's only giving the barest lip service to a coherent casus belli and (to me at least) sounds like he's putting lipstick on a landgrab rather than putting together a reasonable foreign policy.

To put it another way, everyone in Dominions 3 is after one thing. To win. Therefore, the worst possible thing you can do is make it look like you're going for the win now. You want to dress up your intentions and slowly work until you can't be stopped any more, rather than put all your chips on the table and make yourself the guy to beat. Had Man stuck to one gun (Limiting me or the stability of Ermor), any diplomacy myself or Tien tried would be our word vs theirs, at least as far as trying to start a bigger war. However, using both makes him seem duplicitous, like he's already decided what he's going to do and now he's just putting a dress on it for a night on the town, especially when the results of both actions are basically the same (taking my land on the island, or taking my land on the island and going further). It's hard to make yourself seem trustworthy when your actions aren't consistent with your words, and are instead consistent with the ultimate goal.

tl;dr version: Diplomacy in this game is ultimately a joke, but not playing the game at all, or playing it badly can be viewed as a threat.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Here here! Well said.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Well, maybe Man casus belli is doubtious. Fine, I'll accept that. So what? Ulm is not going to attack (or not to attack) Man based on his cassus belli. He is going to attack him if he feels doing so increase his chances to win. If he feels his chances to win are increased by waiting (to get X research, to see if you and Tien Chi attrition Man, or maybe to conquer Pythium first), he will wait. And his own farce of a casus belli is also stupid, in my humble opinion.

When he said "if Man's intentions are to stabilize Ermor we won't intervene", I almost laughed. If he care about Ermor future, he could act himself. He didn't, becouse he couldn't care less. He cares, as everybody does (and as everybody should), about his own goals.

Trying to represent otherwise is part of the farce, which we all play. It's a role we play, in this hypocresy game we call diplomacy. Which is fine, is a nice and fun aspect of the game, which I'm learning and enjoying (my previous MP game, with my friends, have different diplomacy, becouse we know each other, and often we play by groups, in two bands). But sometimes I find a little bit hilarious all this comedy, this talk about friendship, and all of that. Ulm will attack Man when he feels it will work. Be it in three turns, or twenty.


Everybody tries to achieve his goals. Mine is seeing Jotunheim and Tien Chi defeated before Ermor. Tien Chi goal seems to be hurting Man as much as he can. Man and Ulm should go for ultimate victory. And you and Pythium would try to ride the wave and wait for a chance, which currently don't have. Simulating anything else is just part of the show.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

I like this diplomatic hassle.
And I have to say I admire how well TC plays that game of diplomacy and how he can talk a blue sky green. I'd never be able to do it on that level, even in my own language.

As for my bad diplomacy: It gave me all I wanted: options. This turn I had all options for this game on my table, and it was my decision, which of them to chose.
Morla will probably tell you about my choice soon :)

One more thing: For me there is one thing much more important than victory, and that is: having fun! Sometimes even fun as defined in another great game: Fun

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

We announce that the nation of Man has been attacked without any provocation by Pythium.
Three of Our provinces have been seized by Pythium raiding forces. So as of now the nation of Man is at war with Pythium out of Pythiums own choice.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

We're holding a celebratory dinner in the halls of T'ien Ch'i. The sake will flow freely tonight.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Whatever happens, you will not see the day of Avalons destruction.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Maybe not but you still got a lot of fort to dig through before we're well and truly dead. Also, we would have sworn the same thing about Ermor just a couple of months ago...

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Yes, rest assured We are working on plans for that fort.
The difference to Ermor is: There is just noone left who could turn the tide for you. I am at war with everyone, or will be when the NAP with Ulm expires in one months time.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

The server shows my file as being received, though I didn't send one.
Morla, it would be nice if you could turn off quickhost until I tell here that I sent in a correct one.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Olm; anyone who doesn't go to war with you has basically decided to not contest your victory- tallest tree getting cut first and all that right?

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Well I basically elaborated on your options in the PM.
You made your decision and I can perfectly understand it.

I made my decision too. I could have had a shared victory with Ulm. But that would have been a dull end to a great game. I opted for the fun of a world war with dubious chances for victory.

I will have to live with the consequences of my decision, as do you. But I hope we have fun on the way :)

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

exactly- and to be honest i was getting bored. fighting machaka was so long ago.

edit; but yeah- this should be more fun for me for sure.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

OK, let me know if you need an extension.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

You can switch quickhost on again, my file seems to have been deleted.
I'd like an extension for 24 hours, don't know if I need it, but I can't guarantee I get ready today.
Could we perhaps extend hosting interval to 36 hours? I am fighting many fronts and my time schedule is rather tight with a job, building a house and 3 children....

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

you really need to prioritize olm- may i suggest abandoning your children?

OK, i´ll extend this turn 24h, the hosting interval is 48h i´ll extend it to 56h.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

I have interet problems, i waited to send my turn just in case anyone had problems, and now i am the one who is unable to send my turn, i should buy a laptop. I´ll try to fix my conexion an send my turn as soon as posible. 12h extension.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

I declare the nation of Ulm to be oathbreakers!
They canceled our NAP-3 before turn 40.
Now, in turn 42 we are attacked on all fronts by ulmish forces!
This is clearly a violation of our treaty, and we would not have expected something like that by our former friends!

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

:eek:****:doh:, our NAP ends in turn 42, so i make my move. Wait, i am noob:bug:, if i break a NAP-3 in turn 10 then i should wait to turn 13 to send my troops?.

Ahhhhhh, what a shame¡¡¡¡.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

That is something that's kind of complicated to figure out. Moreso if it was not done through the message system.

For example, if he broke it during turn 39, on the forum, do you count 39 as one of the turns? It's hard to say, especially since you could argue that they had three turns of reaction (39, 40, 41).

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

I understand it that after you announce it you may not attack for 3 turns.
So if it is declared before turn 40, 40,41 and 42 are the turns you may not attack. If you cancel ingame with a message arriving with turn 39 you still may not attack on turn 40,41 and 42. Thats how I would understand it. In both cases turn 39 is over, I couldn't change anything in that turn. Even so you could wait until only your turn is missing. Then cancel the NAP in the Forum and immediately send in the turn, that would cut reaction time to two turns with a quite dirty trick. I would still call that breaking of a treaty.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

The easiest way is to be clear and say so.

For example "I break our NAP. We are free to attack each other in turn X".

some people send the message in, say, turn 10, and count that turn as one of the 3 turns. Others say that a NAP 3 broken in turn 10, means you can attack free in turn 13, and others say it means you can attack free in turn 14+ (counting 13 as part of NAP-3).

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

I have to analyse that ill fated battle in depth, but my troops were not completely scripted for your attack.
And not all parts of the puzzle were into place.
I would not bet I had won, but your casualties would have been way higher!

Perhaps even the fort would have been mine by then!

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

WoW, i used that dirty trick without knowing, i break the nap unintended.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

When sending NAP ending messages through the in-game chat, there is no ambiguity. You send the message on turn 9, they get it on turn 10 and have all of turns 10, 11 and 12 to prepare. Turn 13 is when the two of you can clash.

When sending messages via PM or through the forum, my approach is to check llamaserver and see if the person has submitted their turn yet. If they have or if the turn hosts really soon, then assume they won't react to your information this turn (notify on turn 9 but don't attack until 13 because the notification wasn't really noticed before turn 10). If, however, you notify them while there is still plenty of time for them to react and they haven't submitted their turn yet, then you can count that turn as the start of your countdown (notify on turn 9, they have 9, 10 and 11 to prepare, fight on turn 12).

As triqui said, you can be extra sure there is no miscommunication by being explicit about what turn you're entitled to attack them.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Attention everyone. Let it be known that T'ien Ch'i offers to forge, for no mark-up, anything it can that is requested of it from anyone currently at war with Man. After all, about the only thing we have left are a whole bunch of mages and a lab or two. Now, we have crap for gems left at this point so we can't actually forge anything for free, you'll have to provide us the gems, but send us those gems and the smiths of T'ien Ch'i will forge away. We have a great diversity of magics at our disposal though our construction knowledge is only middling (construction-4... that might change in the next couple of turns, though).

Even if it's something that you would normally forge for yourself, if you don't need it urgently, let us do it for you. That way your mages can be researching or fighting against Man instead. PM us with your requests and we will do our darnedest to fulfill them.

Do it now... while we're still alive.
- T'ien Ch'i

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

So Ulm talks about unintentionally breaking our NAP. About the shame it means to them, and that they don't want to be called oathbreakers.

But their actions speak a different language. The ashamed ulmish armies have taken 3 provinces and a fortress from the former friends they betrayed.

We don't expect any of our adversaries to give a second thought on this. But We promise that the nation of Man will not forget!

Revenge for Saran Forest!!!

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

If anyone has good intel on some soft interior 'Man' provinces, please PM us so we can send our next round of raiders.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

The war started, 3 turns passed since NAP-3 was broken, the error was that i believed our NAP ended in the turn i started the ofensive, due to break the nap just before send my turn being me the last nation. I know it´s a dirty trick, i had learned that when i break a NAP i will specify the turn when the NAP ends, just to avoid confusion.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

It was canceled before turn 40.
So the three turns should have been 40, 41 and 42.
You attacked in 42.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

btw. I did so few intel on you, that I just now found your home province.
Quite interesting location.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Once Ti'en Ch'i is down and goes AI, Shatner is going to take over Pythium. I enjoy dominions but this game is sort of boring (no one's fault but my own) and he's eager to take the reins.


So Morla, when Shatner sends you his e-mail address, can you send him the game turns. Hopefully at the same time shatner will set Ti'en ch'i to AI.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

I wanted to confirm that Immaculate asked me to take over Pythium from him and I agreed to. As much as I have enjoyed all the roleplaying I've gotten to do as T'ien Ch'i, I'm eager to get more experience with MA Pythium (I'm trying the nation out for the first time in another MP game and enjoying it). I'm going to use this turn to get my affairs in order and next turn will be me going AI. As a result, please don't send any further forging requests since I doubt the AI will honor them. Fortunately I was able to get through all the ones I received (just barely) and will be sending those items out this turn.

On that note, how exactly to I set my nation as AI? I've never done it before and I don't see any intuitively obvious options in the game or in llamaserver.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

It IS rather intuitive

->options->become computer controlled
:)

I will miss you as TC player.

Btw: It's nice that all my whining showed some effect after all. But you needn't have staled completely, Morla.
I'll stop the whining now and start the beating.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

XDD, i extened the game but llamserver didn´t. Strange bug that happened in MorlaEAnoob. I had just arrived home with the stale surprise.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

edit- confused

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

For shatner to took over Pythum i have to change the email adress. Shatner i need you to PM me your email.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

okay- i will send a turn file for this turn.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Hold on, I think we might be doing this wrong. This turn (turn 44) should play like any normal turn: I play T'ien Ch'i and Immactulate plays Pythium (I'm using this turn to send out requested forged items and dispensing my remaining wealth to my allies).

Next turn (turn 45) I will set T'ien Ch'i as AI. Having done so, will I also be able to play Pythium's turn 45? If not then Immaculate (or someone other than me) will have to play yet another turn.

There is another option, I think. If I gave Morla a different email address than the one I'm playing T'ien Ch'i as, then Morla can set that one to send and receive Pythium's turns. Then I can simultaneously play T'ien Ch'i and Pythium this turn and the next. By the start of turn 46 T'ien Ch'i will have been retired, Pythium can be changed over to my primary email address and then I will be in charge of 1 and only 1 nation once more. Would that work?

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Even with different emails, the problem is the cd-key. I think Immaculate have to play one more turn. When both of you are ready for the change just PM me.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Will do.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

This is right. Shatner can't play both turns at the same time, unless he has access to 2 different dominions (he could do, if he make one of the turns in his own computer, and the other turn in one of a friend)