Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

I told you you would regret this foolish war!

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

krpeters, you should use Rudras. They're awesome thugs, especially at killing enemy SCs. Four arms = fun with axes of hate.

Their biggest weakness is the terribly low HP they have, but otherwise they're great. Natural(and storm) flight, fire death air magics at 3, all the good stuff. Well, they do cost a lot, 45 astral, so they aren't that good for massing. Devatas are better in that respect, but they do have Astral-2. :)

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

hey hey, sry exams. I'd be free in a week, but until then I'm quite busy. And it doesn't feel right postphoning that long. Anyways I'll be fine by tomorrow, since the heavy exams will be done.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

Cool man don't neglect your studies!

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

Tiavalas, don't give away my strategy! ;->

Hereward, why would I regret a learning opportunity? :-P

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Good answer :)

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Hey, so I'll be starting work 40-60 hours a week starting Monday, and am going to keep sending my turns in asap. If after next week it doesn't look like it's working though, I might request a sub. Just a heads up!

<3

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

OK I'm cuirrently dtoo hung over to play, but ill sober up after the xtentions of 12 hrsa.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

too hung over to type too, apparantly.

Which reminds me, who put the 'e' key next to the 'r' key? That can be a real pain in SP games!

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Looks like I'll be away until Tuesday for holiday funstuff. If it isn't too much trouble a delay would be awesome.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Done, I'm assuming Tuesday NA time. I'm quite busty too, practically for the next two weeks with family and friends.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

k changed hosting to 120 hrs for the holidays.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

hey Ermor are you still there? Having problems?

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

I'm here, I've just been without a computer for several days. I'll play my turn later tonight, sorry for the delays >_<

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Good to hear! Let's get this show back on the road!

Minor Kitty, Llamaserver is waiting for you too...

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Hey! We have a turn in! Hopefully everyone knows we're still playing...

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Next hosting is Jan 2nd so people have alot of time to realise.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Now that the holiday season is over I propose we put hosting back to 48 hours, what do people think?

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

60 hours would be a lot better for me, but I'll go along with the general consensus :)

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

I'd prefer 36, but I could live with up to 72. But we do need to get this game moving along at some point.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

I'm personally up for 48hrs, I find that I'm losing determination, but gaining hatred...

Anyways I believe I'll be a bit busy for the next week moving and getting reestablished. Not impossible, but I prefer longer turns.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

I don't mind what the interval is, long or short, both is good.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Ok so you are going to put the timer to 48 or 60 now or after you've finished moving kitty?

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

ABSOLUTELY, I just got back and due to some nice polite Natives and their railraod block for Idle no More I'm late 8 hours. I need to get stuff like food and textbooks so I'll delay until tonight

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Hehehe, it's for the greater good.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Did I miss something? I thought this was a newbie game...

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

???

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Well, after watching one of my major forces getting squished like a bug, I'm feeling a bit outclassed.

I have one or two tricks still up my sleeve, but if they don't work, I think I'll be giving up on Dominions.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

One thing I noticed peters is that you didn't have any mage support in our main battle, and i'm guessing you didn't have many mages in the battle against tiavals due to the sea element. Army strength could be considered 1/3rd troops, 1/3rd thugs and SCs and 1/3rd mages, roughly, and if you are lacking this 3rd element then it's pretty likely you will lose...

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Also one of bandar's main strengths is the mobility of its top tier mages, who can teleport around and so join a battle all the way across the map in 1 or 2 turns from the capital.

As for the newbie element of this game, players who haven't played many mp games could still be way higher in ability than other 'new' players because of the strange learning curve of this game and the almost infinite different strategies you can employ. Although many of the players, especially agartha and ermor and me, and ulm before he left, are very competent in decisions and compositions, they still seem to me to be many levels below the upper tier of players - I have been playing one other game, my second, where there were some upper-tier players, and I was facing many SCs in the 30-40 turn period, and facing such strategies as small stealthy forces attacking many of my provinces each turn which I could hardly defend against. This game in comparison is much easier and 'standard' in that it consists of large areas which are very defendable through a few choke points, which encourages more standard large army vs large army play.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Yes, I recognize that my offense was extremely suboptimal. I was expecting to lose the battle. I just also expected to do some damage along the way, or learn something useful in the process.

For example, earlier in the game, I was sending my troops to their doom against Marignon's fire mages. Initially I had them staged up front to attack immediately, and so his mages easily incinerated them. I could tell from this that positioning was the issue, and that I should stage them at the back of the field instead to keep them out of range for the first few turns.

In this battle, I cannot conceive of *anything* my troops could have done differently... except simply not be there altogether.

I don't mind losing. I do mind being steamrolled. And apparantly there are greater differences in skill amongst beginners than amongst experts.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Well, the cutting line was "less than 10 MP games played." and when I joined the game, that was true. By now, I have played over 10, and my learning curve has been exponential(which is normal for dominions).

The reason why your armies did so little is because I am so far ahead in research and the battle was underwater. To go to the mechanics, it was because of fatigue. Since your guys aren't natural ambhibians, they were at 7 encumberance underwater. This is extremely bad for units with high defence like your white ones, since each 10 fatigue lowers defence by 1. Practically each 3 combat rounds remove their defence by 2 and attack by 1. But what is more, I cast Curse of Stones, which increases fatigue on a unit, making it even more terrible for your guys to fight. And finally, I cast School of Sharks and Army of Gold and Lead. The sharks are useless normally, but with the Army of Gold spell, their protection increases by a massive amount. What this means, is that your white ones have to hack away at them for a longer time(and underwater it means more fatigue). By the time my naturally ambhibian agarthans arrived to the battle, your guys were severely tired, and with each round, they became even more tired(since my protection is immense, so while my guys are terrible at fighting, they can remain in the combat for a long time without being killed, which means more fatigue for your guys). Not to mention my powerful battle mages(earth magic 5 for many) cast Magma Eruption, which practically killed everyone in it's path, and my Pretender cast Prison of Sedna, which freezes a full 10 squares of white ones(they can't act, and they take more fatigue).
And as the final point, I had Sword of Aurgelmer on a guy, meaning all of my guys were under the effects of the Luck spell(50% of all damage sources are cancelled.)
Overall, you had just 2 battle mages(siddhas, with 2 air and 3 astral magic levels, both of which are some of the worst for underwater battles(except for high level unit boosting spells), while I had at least 6, among which were my pretender(fire 6, water 5, earth 5 or something), an agarthan with earth 4, one with earth 5, and one with water 5. I also had two great krakens, who, while being not so great as spell casters, are unstoppable underwater in combat unless countered with heroes specifically designed to kill them.


Overall, it was a battle of attrition due to my high level spells and liberal gem use.

Had it been not underwater, but over water, it would have been different since: a) I couldn't use my great krakens, b) couldn't cast the shark spell, c) your fatigue and defence situations would have been massively better since you wouldn't have had the underwater penalty, d) I couldn't have cast prison of sedna.

For the smaller battle, I had 3 poison golems with expensive gear and area kill weapons. It's no wonder why they won, since they're worth at least 100 gems each and you had no way to counter it.

This late in the game, mundane armies aren't that useful as killers. They're more useful as targets for mages and slowing enemy SCs down. With research and item use at such a high level, mundane troops lose much of their power. At least until you reach the research I have, since I can cast Weapons of Sharpness(halves protection) and Army of Gold/Lead(upps protection by a massive amount). Other spells exist, like Fog Warriors which are super good.

With the resources you had, you couldn't have done much differently, it's true. Your mages and troops were ill suited for an underwater battle against my naturally underwater guys and powerful mages.

I am by no means a great player, this is the first game ever I'm on a position where I might actually win. And that's due to great luck in the beginning. Playing against actually great players is a horrible experience, where they send out Bane Lords with flying boots and the like by turn 20, and you can do little except weep as your troops get killed as they hop from province to province while avoiding your mages who might stand a chance against it.


I hope this helps your morale, you haven't been steamrolled yet, I have barely touched your provinces. If you coordinate your attacks with Abysia properly, you should be able to counter my advance, and it would be wise to recruit allies against me.

The point is, choose your battles where you know you are going to win, and don't fight against a large enemy army without first knowing what sorts of units and tactics they use, unless you have a great advantage due to some factors, like I did.


As for your problems with mages in the beginning, use a lot of worthless troops(like markatas). The enemy mages will cast their spells on them and soon they will be without fatigue and can't cast anything. Then your better troops that were behind the monkeys will attack them. Using expensive units like White Ones against mages is generally a bad idea(especially unsupported), since they don't have much ranged or magic defence. Their advantage is melee combat


And there are indeed huge differences in beginner players. It was stipulated that one should have played less than 10 games. Yet, the difference between 1 and 9 games is huge, since you learn a massive amount playing against humans rather than the AI. I have also been studying how the game works by checking http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Main_Page and http://dom3-mod-inspector.googlecode...?mod=CB1.94.dm

Knowledge is power.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Well, the other embarrassing thing is that this is something like my 8th MP game... so technically I "should" be better. And admittedly I am improving. But... it's just generally a frustrating experience.

As someone once pointed out, an 8-player MP game has 7 losers. So to enjoy Dominions MP, you generally have to enjoy losing :) I can tolerate it when I learn a valuable lesson, like "Don't send astral thugs against astral mages". But I get irked when I learn the same lesson the AI keeps teaching me over and over -- "don't send inferior forces against superior forces". OK, but then what do I do if I have only inferior forces? Hide in my castle? :(

Which is my strategy at the moment -- I'm in full retreat. Vanheim will have most of my provinces soon. But I'll be building up something useful for counterattacking (I hope!)

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

BTW, is Ossa still around to comment on how he was abused by me and Abysia? I feel bad about killing him -- he was a better player but with a worse starting position than I.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Read the wiki I linked when you encounter something that makes you think it's out of your class. Once you understand why it seems so powerful, you may realize it has great weaknesses that you can exploit.

It was certainly(and still is) frustrating fighting against Caelum or Vanheim or other air nations with heavily armored guys(like Abysians), something I did a lot in my early times. The thunder strikes their mages dish out makes me want to cry, when my troops can't get even close, and I don't have cheap units to use as chaff to take their attacks. Sometimes Dominions is pain. :)

Generally when you're inferior, yes, you defend and hide until you can match the enemy, making attacks at their poorly defended provinces down the line(You get stealthy monkeys, right? Although if I remember correctly, they are terrible useless even as raiders since they have no armor and you don't get stealthy mages(Or are nagini stealthy in human form? A nagini casting Wooden Warriors will make them a lot more powerful)). Basic guerrilla tactics. :)

Research, trade for gems, summon guys and equip them with items, or summon battle mages and have them cast high level spells.

Hiding from Vanheim shouldn't be hard, their troops are mostly expensive and thus not good at sieging. Agarthans on the other hand are cheap and have a siege bonus.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

I am loath to give you strategic tips regarding our war peters as I am still in a difficult position, but I will tell you some good things soon.

Kitty, are we going to decrease the hosting time tomorrow?

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

taking *** whoopins is the easiest way to learn. of course, i should be a genius by now...

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Unlikely, I just had a spat with my roommates and I'm temporarily expelled . (by that I mean my generally jackassery finally got to them) I'll extend by 24hrs and see where things are.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Dominions is notorious for its negative affects on academic careers :)

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Due to the demands of RL I have to leave soon, so I'd like to pass admin to someone else. Also I have delayed until I find a sub.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

I nominate tiavals, krpeters or Ossa

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

I don't mind being the admin, but I have no particular desire for it. If someone else wants to be, go ahead.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

I think you should just take it on tiavals, doesn't take alot of effort and we might as well cut short any delay

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Problem is if I remember that I'm the admin for the game. :P

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

I'll nominate Tiavals (to escape the responsibility myself :)

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Sso the reason why I don't step up is that I also have to leave in a week or two, but I want to get as many turns in as possible before I go.

Kitty or someone else needs to put up a sub request also...

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

No, a deal was made with Van. He gets a good deal of the lands.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Is there any hope for a sub, or should Abysia just go AI?

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Give it another day or two I guess. Tiavals, you need to get the admin password from kitty...

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining
 

Ah, got it already, I'm ready to admin.