Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

One question:
Do your Partners (Partnership Treaty) get the "Ship Training Facility" experience bonus?

I have a humongus Toltayan fleet sitting in one of my resuply planets that also have the training facility, and they haven't moved in quite a while.

.

[ March 17, 2003, 14:40: Message edited by: Aloofi ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, you can only train your own ships and fleets. Same applies to the neural combat net thing.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, the AI does that. It can be nasty when they suddenly decide to turn on you...

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

The Toltayans are usually very loyal, though, or at least, they were the Last time I was allies with them, which admittedly was a long time ago.

You could try gifting them the planet... though that's a bit extreme.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

Well, they still there after 3 years of gameplay, 12 Toltayans ships, most of them Light Cruisers.
I thought they were getting the Ship Training Facility bonus, so if they can't then they are just doing an official visit to my planet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
I guess the AI just left them there because it doesn't have any war going on.

One question:
Does the AI upgrade ships?
Will the AI scrap obsolete ships?
What about mothballing?

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

Aloofi,

Are you at war with anyone, currently in your Proportions game?

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

sorry to post such a naiv question, but please can anybody tell what the mod "foundation" is?

danke und tschüß
KlausD

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I believe it was the Foundation for PvK's Proportions, either way, Proportions is a Diamond from any and all consequence.

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What?
I thought PvK was working in Azimov's Fundation!



[OT] By the way, did you know that Al Qaeda means Fundation in Arab and there were rumors that Bin Laden was "inspired" by Azimov's Fundation?

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So whats up, are you at war? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS is not entirely correct. IMHO, Foundations is a mysterious mod PvK is working for almost three years. At the moment of SEIV:Gold release, Peter decided to unleash some insignificant pieces in the form of Proportions http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif We can only fantasize how The Whole Thing should reallly look like http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nope, so far it have been a peaceful game. The only war going on is between the Drushocka and the Phong, and since I have a T&R treaty with both, the Drushs have been asking me to breake my treaty with the Phong, to wish I have replied "no" several times (Its cheating to not reply http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ) the Drushs have become "murderous" towards me, so I expect war to be declared tonight. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

By the way it seems like the AI doesn't retrofit its ships, everybody is way ahead of me in research and have more ships than me, but my ships are far better technologically.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ai does retrofit ships, but to do so, it must pull ships from a fleet. Usually it occurs after a battle, when fleet breaks up to damaged and undamaged ships. The change in AI status can also trigger fleet composition. But yes, if nothing drastically occur, AI keeps ships in existing fleets and do not refit them.

[ March 18, 2003, 19:12: Message edited by: oleg ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

Aloofi,
I was just trying to put together a reason why that Partnered AI is hanging out over your Planet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

I guess he just likes the view http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Better look out, Olegs Druskies are mean... Real Mean. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ March 18, 2003, 19:14: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

The Drushocka are losing to the Phong, I thought the Drushockas was suppose to be the baddest AI in town.
Who's the evilest empire in Proportions?
And who's AI is the most efficient?

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, I thought first it was my Ship Training Facility......
I guess is just the lack of wars.

Would the Toltayan AI accept to join me in war against the Drushs if I ask them or will they say no and our relation deteriorate?

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

Originally posted by Aloofi:

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Xi Chung-HIVE are the baddest AI in town.
~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well the Abbidon; Of coarse http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ March 18, 2003, 19:22: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

Actually the Rock Terrans may be the most efficient. They are Certainly very Prolific.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, I thought first it was my Ship Training Facility......
I guess is just the lack of wars.

Would the Toltayan AI accept to join me in war against the Drushs if I ask them or will they say no and our relation deteriorate?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Score Percent To Accept Declare war on empire := 150
Will Accept From Friend Declare war on empire := True
Will Accept From Enemy Declare war on empire := True
Score Percent To Accept Support us against another empire := 150
Will Accept From Friend Support us against another empire := True
Will Accept From Enemy Support us against another empire := False

May need to be 50% ahead of him in score http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Didn't know that. I always leave the Hive out cause i don't like their shipset. I don't like organic looking shipsets, that's why I changed the Drush shipset for the UFAs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif , but I kept the flag and the population picture.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What?
Are you sure?
I think they are in my current game. I'm playing large quadrant with 16 races.

What About the Krill?
Will they break my partnership with them and attack my weakest system just one system away from their Homeworld?
No wait, don't tell me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

The best thing of being a newbee is that the AI still surprises me with unexpected behaivor.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Where exactly are these files?
I'm thinking of changing the 150 to 100.
What do you think?

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

Ducks use my AI, so I refuse to believe they are losing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Wait a little and you will see them fighting back ! They are not baddest AI for sure. Xi'Chung is a vermin. Also check my latest Krill AI.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">One of the reason they are losing its colonization. They are way behind the Phong.
The other reason is that they claimed one of my systems http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif , and sent a massive 30 ship fleet to scare me or something, but they ran out of supply and now are moving one sector per turn to get back to their nearest supply base, while in the meantime the Phong have glassed one of their system almost unoppossed.
And the Phong have grown so fearless that now they have a minelayer mining a Warp point on the Drush side, while the the Drush keep sending ships one by one to the minefield. I suppose those ships are minesweepers.
Gotta tell you, your Drushs are really in trouble, especially if tonight they declare war on me and start fighting a war in 2 fronts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Its there any chance that the Drushs might convince their only ally, the Jraenar, to join their war against the Phong?

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Damn, damn, damn.. This is another manifistaion of horrible AI bug that affects Proportions' AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
here is a link to its desription:
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...=008385#000000
I made my AIs very aggressive in expansion/population transfer. But it backfired because of SEIV bug http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Next time, either play simultaneous turns or take control of AI races for every other 10 turns.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

Oleg,
I haven’t played out your Krill yet, But your Drushskies are VERY tough!!! As is!!!

Crystals are tough also; after they get there Point Defense Weapons on board!!!

Keep in Mind in Aloofi's game they may have a bad start!

[ March 18, 2003, 20:17: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

Thanks, John http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

But I am still very mighty pissed of by this "population transfer" bug. Up to the point I play "turn based" SE no more. What is the point if your latest and best ever AI becomes a laughing stck of a galaxy with all loaded colony ships sitting arond homeworld for years and years !???

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

I NEVER play se4 (turn based)… http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Reminds me of my old board game days http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

Me too, but as a cortesy to vast majority of SE players I'm obliged to check AI in "turn-based" mode. This is how I get to this bug I never knew about.. !

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

Gotcha http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Makes good sense, Oleg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 18, 2003, 21:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

Sorry, but was the diference between Turn Based and simultaneous?
Is it there tactical combat in simultaneous?
Is it better?
Is the AI better?

I love turn based, so i haven't tried the simultaneous. Sounds like RTS... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There is absolutely no correlation between simultaneous and RTS. 0% exactly, in fact. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Fyron, I love your short uninformative Posts, but i would like more info in why is so, please. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

How could they be similar? RTS is fast-paced, simul. is just the same pace as seq. (actually, maybe a little slower). There is no possibility of click-festing in simul as in RTS.

The only difference between sequential and simultaneous move in SE4 is that you don't have the unbalancing effects of player order making a huge difference in simul. like it does in seq. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Well... you don't get to thoroughly abuse the AI's inability to deal with tactical combat like human players can in simul., which is a good thing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I believe it was the Foundation for PvK's Proportions, either way, Proportions is a Diamond from any and all consequence.

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, it ended up being the foundation for Proportions. It was intended to do a lot more, but I didn't finish it in time for the Gold CD, so I just included the basic scale changes as Proportions mod, and since then have just tweaked and expanded Proportions, rather than going back to finish Foundations. The name similarity to Azimov's Foundation is unintended. The mod name refers to the need to build up fundamental prerequisites before cranking out fantastic abilities. This is most visible in Proportions with the need to do a lot of long-term building and transport in order to develop powerful colonies. The main missing parts that Proportions still doesn't have and that would take a daunting amount of work to complete properly are: the re-worked tech tree with more long-term decisions; the more drawn out weapons techs that vary from wimpy to devastating [edit: also for non-weapon techs, such as propulsion, defenses, etc, though there is a lot of this in Proportions already]; and the various racial tech areas which allow more different types of empires.

PvK

[ March 18, 2003, 22:39: Message edited by: PvK ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

Oleg's Druscs have 2 colony ship and 2 starliners sitting on their homeworld...... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

And since the Druscs are losing their war against the Phong, now they have decided to declare war on the Amonkrie... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif . I guess their leadership believe that "more enemies more honor" stuff.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

On the druscs defense, I must point that they had a very disfavorable start. No good planets on their system, and neighbors too close. On the other hand, they tend to claim system too far from their homeworld and with systems that have not yet been coloniazed in between.

[EDIT] I'm not sure who's AI declared war. It might have been the Amonkrie.

[ March 21, 2003, 14:22: Message edited by: Aloofi ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, this is the manifestation of the ugly SE bug in classical turn games. It is the major reason I play simultaneous turns only !

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

pvk

Sounds very interesting. Maybe you take some time to do this project? I mean you have done already a big part - proportions.

Its not that sure that SEV will rock (you know because of a possible RT-engine) so we will probably have to stay longer with good old SEIV http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

if you dont want to do it, well, proportions is also excellent as such.
Klaus

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, but there is no tactical combat in simultaneous, right?

Is it there any way to have combat in simultaneous?

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Real time combat will do nothing but make SE5 better. It will be nothing like Starcraft, as that is obviously where your confusion is. A simple pause feature and the ability to do anything while paused (except watch ships move and fire, just look and issue orders) removes any possible problems with RT combat.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Maybe you like realtime. I do not. (if pauseable or not)
To claim that SEV will be better with a RT modus is a pure assumption and a matter of taste. I (and I am sure many old vets of the SE series too) can live without it.

tschüß
Klaus

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Strategic combat, sure. But I guess you think of tactical - no way. But strategic combat in your solo games helps in many ways:
-You prevent yourself from using the tactical advantage, the AI hasn't
-It's training for PBW combats
-Once your fleet and ship strategies are set up, it saves a lot of time

But on medium/high AI bonus I would prefer tactical sometimes also.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, but there is no tactical combat in simultaneous, right?

Is it there any way to have combat in simultaneous?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree, tactical combat may be fun. Then I suggest to take AIs to your control every other 10 turns. Switch all ministers ON and let SE process one turn. Turn the race back to computer like it was before. It will temporaly clear this bug and greatly help AI !

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

Thanks Klaus!

It depends on how much time and interest I have in future. Sometimes it helps to take a break for a while... then the enthusiasm to mod SE4 slowly re-accumulates. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I have some ideas about what to do about the ever-frustrating AI, too, but like all modding AI in SE4, it'd be very time-consuming to actually implement.

PvK

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

Not sure if it was mentioned before, but ALL colony ships use colonyshipLarge as a primary bitmap. Hence, once I added this extra shup picture, it replaced all colony ships ! I think the idea is to use colonyshipLarge for "fast colony ships" only. Regular colony should still use colonyship as a primary picture !

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

My idea was all colony ships in Proportions should use "colony ship large", because there are no small colony ships in Proportions. Many shipsets offer colony ships that look like they may really be 300kT. At 1800kT, standard Proportions colony ships should most likely use the biggest-looking image available. If I or someone else added a really high-tech colony ship that was a lot smaller, it might use the ordinary colony ship image.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">SE IV tactical combat is interesting, but a lot should be said in praise of strategic combat too. It involves a lot of strategic thinkig how you design you ships, what strategy to be used, fleet composition and formations, etc. Overall I feel like a comander-in-chief when I prepare for strategig battles !

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Duh.. I made good colonyshipLarge pictures for Pequeninos and Manticore shipsets but I quess I will not include them in the reliase - I like ordinary colonyship pictures too ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

My latest change to Proportions:

Missile speed to 30! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Now the Capital Ship Missiles go straight for the target in one turn, as far as their range can go.

I ran a test with the Phong's Missile Destroyers.
I saw several improvements. With CSM III, range of 12, my PDC were able of destroy only half the number of missiles than with the original spped of 5. The problem is that the missile took 3 turns to fly the distance of 12, and allowed my PDCs to fire at least twice on every missile volley. With maximus fly speed the missile goes straight for the target in one turn, effectively cutting by half the chances of being shot down by PDCs.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

But it may be TOO good ! Now everybody will use CSM instead of beams. I agree missiles need some boost, but keep it reasonable. Actually, I think it would be better to increase "seaker damage resistance" instead of speed. Make it two PDC shots per missile instead of one.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

Missiles seem quite effective to me when heavies are combined with light missile systems, not to mention when combined with drones and fighters.

No?

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It isn't a matter of taste, it is a matter of making the game better.