Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Hi, Desdinova.

Have not heard from you in a while, you have been missed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Good point, there is a monthly Commercial income Value you receive from the Trade Centers that increases with Industry Techs, and at a high level this may be a good facility as an alternative to a Research Expedition or Intel Facility for a scrub planet.

Either way, a Human Player will absolutely need at least ONE in Finite and or any No Warp AIC Game.

But, you may get much more Bang for your Buck with Colonial Settlements making ready for the upgrade to Towns and Cities http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

----

I cannot wait until you try v3.00;~ Desdinova http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

AIC plays a little is faster, and the AI is a little tamer (just a little http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif with none = bonus and you now have Temporal Cities… Not to mention a special City for every Race.

[ June 06, 2003, 19:05: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

When I play temporal, I consistently go overboard with radioactives during first 50-100 turns. There is simply not many thing with high radio cost in the beginning. May be make temporal space yards cost even more radio and less minerals ?

[ June 06, 2003, 15:56: Message edited by: oleg ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

EDIT:
If you are not Playing Finite, I do not understand. What is the Problem, with Surplus Recourses? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

In Finite, you will be soon Struggling to maintain any income; building Urban Structures, Colony ships, etc. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

----

The Rads that you ask to be tacked on the Temporal BSY, however will cost players increased RAD maintenance and usage to build.
Besides, once its built your back to the near same Rad income as before http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Trust me, you will need every Rad you can get in Finite Play when playing Temporal or Crystal.

Also in Finite, you need to invest Urban City Development early so you may have Rads in the End Game, and this takes Rads to Make Rads as the saying goes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

As your Temporal Weapons increase so, will your Rad Expenditures. This will be a resource struggle in all forms of play.

Oleg, I suggest you further increase your Empire Storage the Old Fashion way, Build Resource Storage facilities they are really xtra quick in AIC to build, please check them out for an early scrub build http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

In Finite, and Non Finite to a less degree, building Urban Structures, the Empire Storage really starts to add up.

Trade Centers help in trading Surplus Resources for Needed recourses http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

One of the best investments a Human Player can make with Surplus Resources in AIC is Tribute or Gifts to the AI Players

AI Campaigns v3.01 will be ready in a few Hours.

This will have an increased Empire Storage as we Discussed earlier.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 06, 2003, 23:42: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Duh... I get spoiled by Proportions and almost forget about storage facilities. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I guess I should go back to basics in resource management. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

No, Duh, needed. I forget too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I wanted to retain some econmics from se4 and build AIC also with our favorite Proportions MOD; in mind http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 06, 2003, 22:12: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

=====================
AI CAMPAIGN v3.01a Update
=====================

Intel Projects:
Expanded the Psychic Intel Projects, some available at Psychic Studies level one. (v1a)
Revised some AI and Human Player Intel Projects with multiplayer considerations.

Quadrant Maps:
*NEW~Three more Centurion Systems created total now 4.
More Centurion Systems may appear in each new game.
Revised most Quadrant Maps to be a little more AI friendly.
Added a few special items for the systems.
Added a few more Moons to the Systems

Interface:
Reorganized quadrant menu.

Conceptual:
This update further reduces AI early expansion, in most none to Low bonus games.
Reduced AI starting Intel points 25%.
Restructured Resource Storage for Human Players.

Facilities:
Added Crystalline (RAD) Value Improvement Plants ~GLV
Removed the ability for Human Players to build Psychic Meditation Retreats.
Psychic Intelligence Center 1 and 2 levels are available with just Psychic Technology.

Vehicles:
Improved the smaller War Ship Maneuverability modifiers for the Human Players.
Added new Medium Star Liner Images to Extras Folder ~GLV

Components:
Lowered Robo-Miners size so extra supply may be installed on Small Transport.
Rad Robos may have Three Per Vehicle now.

Notes:
Intel Projects went into Psychic beta 1.
Starting Empire Point Storage Increased about 33% for all Human Player Races ~Oleg

----------------
DOWNLOADS

AIC Version 3.01a Update files only.
Updates AIC 3.00 Versions, Only .

AIC v3.01a update, will NOT break existing v3.00 saved games)

-----
Psychic Intel Update v1a.
Updates ALL AIC Versions .
(size 14kb)
-----

Please download AI Campaign v3.01 Complete if you never received your copy of Version 3 - AIC goes Multiplayer .

LINK > AIC v3.01a <

~
In simultaneous games: After Updating or Patching, it is recommended that you log into the Host and then end your turn. The game will start you right were you left off. Please check your designs and if they are fine, you are good to go!
~

[ June 09, 2003, 13:19: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I know a detailed list could be quite extensive. But it seems that everyone who steps up to the plate and starts to learn how to modify the AI has to a lot of test cases to figure everything out. We all do it, and for the most part each of us does some of the same work over and over again. For modding the data files there are excellent tools (DavidG's comes to mind) available that rapidly speed up the progress. For the AI, there is little help, but some things like Attrakius's AI_DesignCreation_CheatSheet have been extremely useful. I was thinking about a similar little document that would encapsulate your extensive knowledge on AI state switching. The format might be something like:

Current State: Exploration
Changes to: Infrastructure if
1: Other Players Seen & Enemy Near
2: Other Players Seen & No Unexplored System Nearby
Changes to: Defend (Short Term) if
XXX
YYY

What do you think? In any case I'm sure I'll have many questions for you if you have the time and energy to help me out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

[ June 06, 2003, 20:17: Message edited by: cybersol ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Ah Geez, I just get a game going with AIC 3.0, and here comes another Version! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif J/K - great job guys from what I have seen so far, it is like playing a whole new game. As to the comment below about AI states, Mephisto and I were trying to find an old post the Aaron had done to this effect on the beta test forum. Unfortunately, I think Shrapnel deleted it. We will continue to look for it or if I find my testing notes, I will paste them here.

Later
-TG

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wow, thanks... Tampa_Gamer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

v3.01 is just a small update and it won't break a v3.00 game...

Great on the AI States, this can come in handy.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I know a detailed list could be quite extensive. But it seems that everyone who steps up to the plate and starts to learn how to modify the AI has to a lot of test cases to figure everything out. We all do it, and for the most part each of us does some of the same work over and over again. For modding the data files there are excellent tools (DavidG's comes to mind) available that rapidly speed up the progress. For the AI, there is little help, but some things like Attrakius's AI_DesignCreation_CheatSheet have been extremely useful. I was thinking about a similar little document that would encapsulate your extensive knowledge on AI state switching. The format might be something like:

Current State: Exploration
Changes to: Infrastructure if
1: Other Players Seen & Enemy Near
2: Other Players Seen & No Unexplored System Nearby
Changes to: Defend (Short Term) if
XXX
YYY

What do you think? In any case I'm sure I'll have many questions for you if you have the time and energy to help me out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Absolutely, Cybersol.

I am sure you and I can work out any AI situation.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 06, 2003, 22:43: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

JLS,

FYI: You might want to look at the intelprojects.txt file and you will see that there are two anarchy Groups and I think one of them might of been for the ai_balance_tech but it says human_balance_tech. The new Version looks great.

SunDevil

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Thanks, Sundevil... I'm on it now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thanks again SD, you are right on, the lower one belongs to the AI Balance Tech.

Players need not be in a rush to patch, this is only denied to the AI at this time. I will give the file a thrice over in the morning, and have a little patch out then.

-----

Intel is not a strength for me, ANY help that can be offered, would be dandy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

For example, do you think I could improve the order of Psychic Intel’s, additions, subtractions anything not too intrusive and nothing destructive.

In your opinion of overall Intel in general, the strengths and weakness on any particular costs and/or project, good or bad for the AI?

[ June 07, 2003, 03:02: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ha ! Too late now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif That’s ok Oleg, the AI should be fine with out the anarchy Groups Project, if you choose not to Patch, the Intel Project File http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
For the most part unless the Human is a Psychic Race it is unlikely you can hurt him with this project until later in the game, and at that point, there are better projects for you to attack with any way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

EDIT:
However, this next update v1a, will lower the:

Counter - Intelligence Levels for the AI players, is programmed now for Solitaire play. This setting is less advantageous, for the AI then the previous Multiplayer settings in v1.

[ June 08, 2003, 00:18: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Thanks, Grand Lord Vito http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Just received your E-Mail and these are great suggestions for the new Intel Projects update.

Programming most of them now; any more ideas please post or send more mail http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The file should be done and Posted in a few hours….
EDIT:
Make that 3 Hours.
The wife, has a few chores for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Thanks again; ~GLV

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 07, 2003, 16:06: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

=====================
Psychic Intel Update v1a.
Updates ALL AIC Versions .
=====================

Changes from v1:
Ship Bomb: Increased to 60 ~GLV

Engine Damage: Is now a Human Players Project only

Sabotage Ship 2: Lower Cost almost 25% for all players

Sabotage Ship 3: Lowered Cost almost 33% for all players

Crew Rotation: Human Players Lowered Cost to se4 defaults of only 5000 and doubled the effect.

Crew Rotation: AI players Cost is Double that, and only have 1/2 the effect of the Human Players.

Disinformation: Reduced the Cost by 50% for all Players

Food Contamination: Human Players is set for se4 default costs with enough effects to take out a new Colony

Anarchy Groups: Fixed for AI and updated; ~SunDevil,
AI now has access. Lowered cost for Humans almost 50% and decreased the AI effects.

Counter - Intelligence: Decreased the effects for the AI players.

-----
Note:
Food Contamination:
~TIP~ Good to hit the AI or another Human Player with this when he starts a new colony. If successful, you should starve that Player off the Planet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Ground Contamination, Weather Disruptions has PreReq of Tectonic Engineering as it applies and in this way, both Projects can be removed from Play (AIC v3.00+) thru the in [new game / Technology Areas allowed] menu. Click Tectonic Engineering.

Intelligence moduale for non Psychic Players can be removed from Play thru the in [new game / Technology Areas allowed] menu.

Ship Bomb: The ships Engineering Sections damage control (if installed on the ship) should handle any damages from this project http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Counter - Intelligence Levels for the AI players, is programmed now for Solitaire play. This setting is less advantageous for the AI; then the previous Multiplayer setting.

The next AI release for AI Campaign will be programmed as such; that some AI Races will be more susceptible to Intel then others, and that one or two AI’s may be superior.
Xiati will be the first AI race to look out for.

Psychic Intel plus the Centurians Dead System

>>>1055034519.zip<<<

~
~~
~

[ June 08, 2003, 13:13: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Alternate for Centurion Dead System ~Beta~

Link below (size 23k) this also includes Psychic Intel v1a.

>>>1055034519.zip<<<

Please let me know, your thoughts?

[ June 08, 2003, 14:00: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hello, JLS. You seem to have learned a lot about the AI state switching. Could you look over this thread? If you know a lot more about this, I would love to hear it. Maybe you could summarize what you know and post a cheatsheet on AI states. Any assistance would be appreciated!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS, how did you learn so much about AI programming, when you have said, “you fix refrigerators for a living”?

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Basically, I learned a lot of the AI by designing the Abbidon for PvKs Proportion mod. I became awestruck by; if this is done, the AI will do that. I mostly could not stop playing and tinkering with the AI trying to see if I could make it jump thru hoops.

When I started AI Balance Last summer, over time, I could anticipate what the AI would do, find its weaknesses then try to improve it the best I could for AI Campaign.

When, I would be stuck, or could not figure something out, I would Email Aaron Hall, now this was the beginning of Last year, so he must have had time, because in the half dozen emails I sent including the one this year, Aaron replied the same day. The Last reply Aaron sent was on a SUNDAY, talk about a work ethic http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Matter of fact, it was Aaron that explained the inner workings of AI States and the Political Files http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

That is, to say… Trial and error on my part and good support from Malfador Machinations http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 08, 2003, 18:55: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

[quote]Originally posted by JLS:

Quote:

Originally posted by Tampa_Gamer: [qb]Ah Geez, I just get a game going with AIC 3.0, and here comes another Version! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif J/K - great job guys from what I have seen so far, it is like playing a whole new game. Later -TG

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree, TG.

I am going to slow the Versions down… The wife is starting to think, I would much rather tinker with AIC; then to tinker with her http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 08, 2003, 18:54: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Bug???? V- 2.9 Phrong has had several fleet/ships go into and out of mine fields W/O going BOOM and there where no sweepers in the group http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

He,he,he !! AI has build in mine sweepers into ship hulls. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I tried to protect my system in the game I am writing about - BAD idea, Xi'Chung zipped through my puny minefield.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

FYI for new AIC players. Regarding Minefields

Excerpt from AIC MOD Info:
AI balance allows the AI and Human Players to have some specific Components, Vehicles, and Abilities. Some examples are: the AI better handles mines now , point to point re-supply, faster ship training, sector scanning, Stellar manipulations, combating Plagues to name a few and does not use our fun stuff like; star liners, low level Master Computers etc.
~~~

Yes, most AI Players will blow thru a 100 Minefield with a large fleet …. Just like, you would expect a capable Human Player opponent would.

Pre Light Cruisers age Fleeting for the AI:
50+ Scouts will blow thru a 100 Minefield
25+ Escorts
17+ Frigates
7+ Destroyers

About when the AI Player starts fleeting Light Cruisers especially Carriers, you can expect the AI to clear Minefields 100%, when fleeted with a CV and escorts vessels . Just like, you would expect a good Human Player opponent would.

That is not to say, the AI will not make mistakes or loose many a good ship; Scouting, or a few Capital ships returning to or from a yard or refuel base (as a Human player may)

===

Please keep this in mind; the higher the Computer Bonus the faster the AI will fleet Light Cruisers and Carriers. When this happens the less effective your minefields will become.

[ June 09, 2003, 12:52: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Hive had Light Cruiser a long while ago (suspect from a Ruin) Therefore, I do not expect the hive to get to Cruisers any time soon.

I new you were in for fight for the game then, but not before I found out you where against the Xi'Chung Hive in the first place.

~

Playing against the Hive in AIC, may be like playing against the most Notorious Multiplayer Person you know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[ June 09, 2003, 01:13: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mottlee, this is not a bug. Please see below FYI post.

With AIC v3.00+, the AI develops Slower in Computer Bonus Games [NONE]...

With the Human evolution Rate is extremely faster in AIC v3.00+.

Please refer to the v3.00 Posted Release Info Below.

[ June 09, 2003, 01:18: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

The probable final Version for AIC will be v4.00 for se4 v184…
I am still compiling the ReadMe File for AIC. Following will be some of the text.
-------------------------------------------------
STARTING YOUR FIRST FEW AIC v3.0+ GAMES

Neutrals for the most part are always good

After they become warm to you. Offer a trade of 50k of resources a Comm Link even your Colonizer Tech - any one; should trade for their Colonizer Tech http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Neutrals also offer the Human Player large monthly dividends through Trade and Research Treaties. Refueling rights, not to mention somebody to pick when the time suits you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

~
Small Quadrants with many AI. The AI will soon be crowded and all but the most Serine may decide for the expansion fight. You will end up on the AI hit list in this style game. (Not recomended fore new AIC Players)

~
For your first AIC v3.0+ game:
Play a Standard default Setup.
You may want a Medium or Large Default top Map at first.
With Low to Medium AI Player Count.
Low to Medium AI Difficulty selection.
Absolutly NONE in Computer BONUS.

In the Advanced Traits when you Edit your Race, you are Required to choose the *top HUMAN Trait* and then please take the FREE options of 1 and 2 as well as any other choices you may want.

Please, further take any or ALL the FREE MP Handicapping choices to help you build the Empire you are comfortable with. (All 3 MP) would be a bonus of 1000 Points to you - The AI does not mind, so don't you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

For 3000 Points - AI Campaign has a lot to offer the Dual Racial Trait Human Player . Any Combination is very good. Please check out each of your Population Centers on your Home World, when your game starts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

~~~~~
PLEASE NOTE: The ending AI Traits are reserved for the AI, and will break your game if you choose any inadvertently.
~~~~~

Start building a Scout or two, a few Base Ship Yards, Colonizers etc.
You will need many star liners.

If you find you are neighbors with an Aggressive race, be prepared http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Important starting researches are, Ship Construction 2 and 3.
Military Science for Point Defence.
Construction so the Colonies will build with further designs.
Propulsion 2 is good for the Scouts to install efficient engines.
Ship Yard Techs for faster build rates if you are not Temporal Race.

Any research path is fine, above are just a few absolutely needed base line Techs, in AIC.

In regards to the Best overall Race Package in AIC, the choice may arguably be the Crystallurgy Racial Trait then the Temporal Race.

If you like Intel Projects, the Psychic Racial Trait may be for you.

Organics as expected, will give you a fine war footing. Also, there are abondent organic resource in AIC for the even the most rapacious of the Organic Species http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

You may also find that the AI in AIC to be very interactive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
=================================================
Suggested AI Computer Bonus Levels in AIC:

None: All first time Players. MP Handicap per your se4 Experience.

Low: With good AIC Economics and you start beating the AI Regularly. Also opens more options for the AI in No Warp Games. Remember to reset your MP Handicapping, the AI is tougher.

Medium: Very Competitive in No Warp Games in other games the AI is Extremely Tough with this setting. Good for most Multiplayer LAN or PBEM Games, with many Human Players.

High: Only a few Multiplayer games may require this setting.

The AI curb does and will increase, as the game Years tick by.
Each Bonus Level also will increase this AI Curb.

(The during game AI Curb advance is different then the In Game Bonus, and is fully Programable in AIC. To start and to End. Even to reverse itself for Finite)

=================================================

The best way to start with Centurion rich Systems is to generate one to your liking from the in game Quadrant menu with the Centurion Ruins map (AIC v3.01+). You may generate one to a few hundred Systems from this map… In addition, it is great for a one on one game as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I recommend you set the AI player count, relative to the Systems that you generate, for a balanced game, the less AI the better; for you that is. It may be best to keep the AI players down (1 per 8-12 Systems), and not to play with any AI bonus in this style game of AIC.

Remember, the AI likes those artifacts too.

[ June 09, 2003, 12:00: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

JLS: Ha! Now I find out (no bonus http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )! Just had my emperor's head handed to me by an organic race..

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I bet it was, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif - Xi'Chung Hive ;~pathfinder

[ June 09, 2003, 02:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Uri'Kal?? actually. I would have recognized those bLasted bugs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

We have just Started a LAN MultiPlayer game with one Other Human Player.
Beta testing AIC v3.02.
To include AI Planet Utilazation Revisions, Centurion Systems and Psychic Intel Projects v2.

Most game events will not be Posted this more in the way of the Speed a LAN game may proceed playing AIC.
------------------------
No Warp Style Game, view all players off with a 12 full Cluster Default Large Galaxies Map, with AI Players Count High, Default Medium Difficulty for AI players Selected and AI Bonus set to Low.

I am a Science - Crystalline - Hydro - Gas Giant Race. Game is Played on a Intel 500 mghz XP Gateway Computer (HOST) No options or MP Handycap. No Strategic Fighters

Other Human Player is Science - Temporal - Carbo – GAS GIANT on a 1gig 2000XP Dell. No options or MP Handycap. ? 500 cost Strategic Fighters.
--

2000 Point.
No Warp Style Game, view all players off with a 12 full Cluster Default Large Galaxies Map, with AI Players Count High, Default Medium Difficulty for AI players Selected and AI Bonus set to Low.

The Random AI Player Yeild was 9 AI major Players and 5 Nuetrals thru out Quad.

Games First turn Starts 10:30 EST. June, 9-03
1rst Yr-11:04 est. 10turn, expended 1/2 Hour including setup and posting. Started in 11th Place.

2nd Yr-11:14 est. I have a Poor Starting System – Built and about two Colonize 2 Gas non Breathable Worlds… No Ships or Base Yet. 16th Place.

3rd Year-11:41 est: All 3 Gas Non Breathable Colonized, (5) Star Liners avg 2 per Colony. Scraped HW space Dock and port for a Settlement and the Crystalline (RAD) Improvement Plant will be completed in a few Months. This is a Plant will be a prep for future trade income. Colonies built mostly Research Expeditions until Resources are needed. Crys Restructuring Plant and Energy Lens Built on Scrub Colony. 16th (Last) Place.

4th Year-12:08: HW Starts BSY II construction of 2 Underway. Colonies; once Research Expiditions are Finished build Cry II Torp Sats for the Future Warp Holes Defense… 1 BSY (Missile II Sats), no War Ships 16th Place

5th Year-12:49 est: 50 Turns in 2hrs 20min...includes Pizza Break.
HW Scrap Settlement builds Research Computer- Freighter Built (SL HULL) to transport Sats built at Colonies to the HW (auto repeat w HW +3 Cols). 2 BSY II making Missile II Sats. Starting Frigate and Escort Construction. all level 2+ components. Small TAC Fighter 1, with lvl 2 Turret Research in a few months. Ship Traing II Built on scrub. 16th Place.

Year 8.3-14:34est: Warp Opener, opens first warp

10th Yr-15:40 100 turns in 5Hrs 10min in 2 Player LAN

[ June 09, 2003, 20:42: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Hey guys finally get to play again. I've got the newest Version of AIC but have a question. Creating a new empire. How is this best accomplished, is it better to edit an existing one or can I just click on add new and go from there. Also when you are setting up your new empire it has use race minister style. Choices are use selected style or use style from race. But if I start a new race where does it get it information from? Just curious as I would like to mix things up here as well instead of using just the four that come with this mod, but I would like to understand what I am doing. Thanks.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Either way... Please just remember to take *Human Player MUST SELECT here first* from the Advanced traits Menu (as it is with the supplied examples), then any options you may want other then the AI traits, including the MP Handicaps that will give your Empire 1000 extra Points to spend. Think about setting up a Dual Race.
Please refer to the instruction for
STARTING YOUR FIRST FEW AIC v3.0+ GAMES , less then 10 Posts down http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, the Races that are supplied are an Example. By selecting YES use style from race, you are able to use the Speech files for that race folder, as opposed to the default speech file http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

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You may also Paste in (one) Race Set that you like from this Forum to the AICAMPAIGN/Pictures/Race Folder then CREATE NEW and selecting that Portrait.

Advanced…
If you copy any more then one, and only one person is Playing. Then all NEW Races that were added, but the one you choose; will need AI FILES from AIC.

[ June 09, 2003, 21:38: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

So it only uses the speech file and that it? It has no bearing on how the ministers actually act? Like if I use the other option and I get the choices of aggressive and so on those have no bearing on how the ministers actually work?

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, it will be fine for all ministers, as you may be used too.
Except the DESIGN Minister he may not design your ships the way you want, just as se4 or other Mods...

---

If you do not go into any Data Files or alter any, then no problem, other wise:
If you rely on the ministers, you will at least have to have the AIC, AI files for that Race in that folder http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
For example: You will need an Organic Race Research Minister, to research organics, etc.

[ June 09, 2003, 22:10: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

If I start a new race then, when I choose my race and ship pics it is then also picking where it will get the minister info?

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Yes, HercMighty. Pick any supplied race, and alter it as you would from a MOD or the se4 game, you have done in the past.
Besure to Pick from the Advanced trait Menu the top *HUMAN PLAYER* trait. Please do not take any bottom AI Traits.
Please refer to the instruction for
STARTING YOUR FIRST FEW AIC v3.0+ GAMES, posted below.

Info on ministers only.
Yes, if the race you pick, has not been added by you physically, and is the standard se4 races Styles that was supplied with AIC. You will be fine with the ministers.
Just keep an Eye on the Design Minister, he likes to dabble with YOUR designs every time you get a new tech, as you would expect with se4 or other Mods...
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

This also does not mean you will like any of their decisions, most of us never do. But yes they will make them for you, if you want. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I personally like just starting with the Intel Minster only, then taking over after I meet another Race.

If you wish to add a Race other then the supplied Races, I will be happy to assist.

[ June 09, 2003, 22:45: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

The other Organic Race in AIC, and the only race that deviates from the Basic se4 Races, would be the Drushocka. They prefer no Atmosphere and make good use of the rocky moons.

The Drushocka race is a XiChung want a-be, and can be tough. The Drushocka are Impulsive, and as such, their actions and Research goals tend to be erratic. As result of this lack of focus, the Drushocka may decline in most non-bonus games.
~
Then there is Ukra-Tal the other Organic race of the three, are a very Serene race, and it is unlikely they will resort to violence from anger unless pushed to the extreme http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

------

Name := Drushocka
Biological Description := The Drushocka rather resemble greenish moss-covered boulders. They move through the oscillation of these moss fibers along their bodies. Suffice to say, they move very slow. However, they make up for this in physical toughness. Since they are predominantly composed of silicate and Organic based materials, they are literally as tough as rock.
Demeanor := Impulsive
Culture := Workers
Planet Type := Rock
Atmosphere := None

Name := Ukra-Tal
Description := The Ukra-Tal are an ancient peaceful people who excel at politics. They have also developed advanced organic manipulation technology.
Empire Name := Ukra-Tal
Empire Type := Collective
Emperor Name := Weshra-Tal
Emperor Title := Imperator
General History Description := Though they are actually a very peaceful people, the Ukra-Tal have been plagued by wars since they first ventured into space. History has shown that the Ukra-Tal are rarely the aggressors and that they are usually attacked out of fear of their organic technology. History also shows that the Ukra-Tal are not to be trifled with. Though slow to action, when they do go to war, it becomes a very serious endeavor.
Demeanor := Serene
Culture := Politicians
Planet Type := Ice
Atmosphere := Methane
Design Name File := Scandina.txt

[ June 09, 2003, 12:22: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Will the patch kill ongoing 2.9 games?

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Yes, in v3.00+, AIC goes towards Multiplayer and is a full upgrade. However AI Minefield handleing is basicly the same as 2.91-. Accept Human Player Minefields will be more effective over a longer periode of time in AI Bonus [none] games with AIC v3.00+.

It adds much for the Human Players Evolution and to tame the AI in None Bonus games

Please Download the Complete Version of AIC 3.01a this will add new Races, and Upgrade AIC to Multiplayer - More Centuriaon Systems and adds Psychic Intel Projects http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Please refer to v3.00 and v3.01a release Posts below.

[ June 09, 2003, 13:22: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Okay I got it figured out now on how to do the empires thanks.

Your Fighter Mod though has me scratching my head a little though. I want to make sure I understand before I get to far into my game so I am not to handicapped. How are fighter different from a standard game? What are you doing different?

I guess I am confused by no strategic movements mentioned in the readme file and what the the free strategic fighter movement option in the race setup alters.

I am playng with simul movement.

Thanks for your help, I appreciate it. More of the game makes more and more sense as I read through the information a few times but I guess I am not getting a good grasp on this for some reason. I figure when I get to it a few times it will make sense, but I'm trying to understand as much as I can before I get to it.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I am certain that the whole field of fighter' weapons is far from the optium setup. They are just too generic. All "armor-skipping torpedoes" have same statistics except the cost for example. JLs is working on it but he will need all the input from us, players. Please, contribute !

[ June 10, 2003, 20:24: Message edited by: oleg ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

JLS,

You might already know this but I am pretty mad right now. If you look in the techarea.txt file you will see that the space yards tech field has a racial trait of 7 which won't let any of the ai or neutral races build space yards. I am 400 turns into a game of no warp points and was just checking out some of the other races and noticed that their ship building option was grayed out and none of their inital planets had a space yard facility. I should of checked this out in the first fifty turns, I guess you live and learn. I just don't see how this escaped the testing process before this patch was released. Thanks again for a great mod, but I did just have to scrap a 400 turn game.

SunDevil

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

be creative. give them stuff.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

SunDevel.

I have Played with Version 3.00 and also upgraded from 3.01to v3.01a and in all the games the Neutral does build Yards and bases.

The v3.01a game I have now, the neutral has 13 bases 5 of which are Yards, all have more then 10 and theirs one with 18 Base. Also a No Warp Game.
However, as far as I can tell, all the Neutrals are now and have been making yards and plenty of bases.
I play with veiw all and all the AI is doing GREAT, maybe to great.

Is it all Nuetrals, or just the one with a a problem? Which race was it?

When you logged into that Neutral, you must have seen the Design for Base Yards. Are you also saying the Neutral has no Space Yard Facility as well? When you loged in did you see if that AI could build one? Oleg, just published a game on the Forum, where the AI made and lost tons of ships.

I just started 3 different games real quick and all the Nuetral have Yards http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Did you add or install another Mod over AIC… AIC is not compatible with other MODs until Version 4 comes out.

What starting options are you using, other then No Warp? Can you Email JLS your Savegame?

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Sundevil, my game is also AIC v3.01a. No Warp with High Tech Cost. AI bonus is none.

All the AI including the Neutrals have bases. Did you modifie the game any?

I love the game, it plays great. I have not seen any Bugs yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Hi, SunDevil.

Sorry, to here about your 400 turn game.

I can assure you the AI and the Neutrals have the ability to build and start with Space Yard Facilities. In the games and Settings, we have used.

Olegs Forum game, the AI had Plenty of ships http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif - If we look close enough we may find a jpg of a BSY or two http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Has anyone else seen the AI in AI not building Ships or bases?
~

There are still a few things that are being worked out in AIC and we will continue. However, between a full days work, Program AIC and time with my family. Well anyway, I do try not to make mistakes, and I thank all here on the Forum, that helps test and play AIC, and they all have been and are, outstanding people http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

~~~
May I ask you a few questions about your game?

What did you have the defaults at, when you started that game?
What Neutral is it that does not have a YARD?
Do the other Neutrals build or not have a Yard?
What did that AI build for facilities for that planet?
Could it be posable that it was destroyed by an Attack? (if one AI)
The rest of the AI Players, are they fine?
Did you make any changes in the supplied AI or Copy any foreign AI to the game without the proper AIC AI Construction and Design Files?
Did you modify any Data Files or install a MOD add-on?

~~~

Known oddities in AIC v3.01 to date. An oddity is not a bug, since the Human Player game, play is not affected.
1: AI was not getting a Project in intel ~Found by SunDevil. Fixed and Patch v3.01a.
2: Weird Looking Tiny Dead Sun in the Centurion System, no effect on game ~We now have a different Image, since that was too weird.
3: Planet utilization. Oleg and I are working on a few thoughts and I left few Techs open to the Human Player for the time being.

As far as I know these are the only oddities, which can be found in AIC, and will be resolved in v3.02, and will NOT break existing save games.

Still in Beta are:
1: Psychic Intel.
2: AI Infantry and Troopers versus Human Player Armored Vehicles and Battle Line Tanks.

I also just now started (8) in a row No Warp games (4) with Medium Tech Start and (4) without and All the AI and Neutrals have Ship Yards. Also started 8 normal games, same variation with NO AI Problems, All the AI and Neutrals have Ship Yards.
====

AIC is not compatible with any other MODS at this time. Modified data or AI files, yes, I am sorry, your game may be a scrap http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

If you wish, Please send your Save to my work, > CES-Incorp@MSN.COM < and I will see what I can do to salvage your 400 game, and return it to you, for your play; Tomorrow around 3pm est http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 11, 2003, 05:39: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

GLV, I do not have your save, but you had/have a v3.01? regular game going around 1400 turns. How is the AI in that game? You are in 2nd or third as I recall.

Please, resend the save file.

GLV, you are playing NO WARP, I thought you did not like no warp http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ June 11, 2003, 04:47: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">EDIT
AIC defaults to the TACTICAL FIGHTER MODUAL.

Strategic Fighter is in Option 1, so may players may Play and Test it.

Strategic Fighters are NOT a default , if you want them, you have to choose it from the Traits menu http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
If you do not Choose Strategic Fighters the AIC game is defaulted the Tactical Fighter Module only.

Tactical Fighters: Do not move in the System, so you can not park your CV's 1 away from the AI's Planet and BLast him with impunity, you will have to Commit your Fleet.

Strategic fighters: you can do all the above http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Its not you, AIC is growing faster then the README. I need to rewrite existing readme with a Help and Getting started text, and package it with the game.

===================================

It is best to have some se4 expearence though when starting a MOD.
With AIC, some of the AI Players, can be unforgiving.

I recomend if you have little se4 expearience to Start AIC with a LARGE Default map, None in Computer Bonus and Number of Computer Players, Computer Diffaculty set to LOW. Play as many turns as you like, learn the new Components and Facilities the Econmics and meet a few AI. When your ready, just start a defalut game, with all the Options you want.

[ June 11, 2003, 16:19: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

JLS,

In the actual zip file of the 3.01 Version, if you look at the techarea.txt file you will see the spaceyards tech set to a racial trait of 7. If you then look at the racialtrait.txt file you will see that the humans have a racial trait of 7, thus not giving any of the ai even an option to research space yards because they are not set to a racial trait of 7 just the human players.

SunDevil

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

JLS,

There are the same files within 3.01a as well.

Please just go to your site and download the full download of 3.01a and then open up the zip and look at techarea.txt file and the racialtratits.txt file and based on the spaceyards being set to a racial trait of 7 how any of the ai players are suppose to be able research that tech area let alone build any spaceyards.

SunDevil

[ June 11, 2003, 06:44: Message edited by: SunDevil ]