Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

I was talking about with the doubled cost, at 3200 minerals. That comes to 60800 minerals for the 19 research labs alone, with 7600 maintenance.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Now to compare different hull sizes.

As a basis of comparison, use standard 10 kT LS and CQ. Fill bases with minimum C&C comps, nothing else.

Small base:
80 kT used, 8% of hull used for C&C comps
2150/5400/2100, total 9650
9.65 resources/kT used for hull and C&C comps

Large base:
200 kT used, 6.7% of hull used for C&C comps
5750/15800/5300, total 26850
8.95 resources/kT used for hull and C&C comps

Massive base:
320 kT used, 6.4% of hull used for C&C comps
9350/26200/8500, total 44050
8.82 resources/kT used for hull and C&C comps

The large base is definitely more efficient in terms of C&C than the small base, by a small margin. The massive base is still more efficient than the large base, but just barely. Using large bases, you pay a little bit more overall, but have more SYs to use in the end... And you get to build them faster, to get a bit of extra boost on research due to having labs operational sooner than when building massive bases.

[ August 06, 2004, 18:41: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Now with master computers (lvl 5).
massive base 5000 kt:
40 kt used, 0.8% of hull used for c&c comps
6000/21000/4000, total 31000
6.2 resources/kt used for hull and c&c comps

Comparision: 1.0-6.2/9.65 = 0,55 (55% better ratio for massive base). Now, who in their mind will use LS/CQ for research bases?
Yes with small bases you get your research immediatly, but it worth to wait 5 turns to get 16% more research for the same price (building time).

Edit: with tweaked SY rate massive base can be built in 4 turns.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yep, I've made a mistake (as always) with calcs for massive bases, sorry.

Costs:
Massive astral base - 5000/20000/0
1 AC V - 1000/1000/4000
12 research labs V (you can't put more on 5000 kt base) - 3200/0/0 x12 = 38400/0/0
Result - minerals: 38400+1000+5000 = 44400; org: 20000+1000 = 21000; rads: 0+0+4000 = 4000
Total - 44400/21000/4000
Maint. ~ 5700/2700/500

And you still can easily support 4 bases (48 labs) with 1 resource planet, so my conclusion is true.

[ August 06, 2004, 19:09: Message edited by: aiken ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

So what would be your suggestion? Research labs still have to be useful...

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

For the more evil races out there, I am going to add slave labor camps. Trying to decide on their stats. Keep in mind that the unhappiness will stack, so 10 SLCs will cause 10x as much anger as 1 SLC. Assume a Mineral Miner produces 800 minerals per turn for all examples. Two possibilities are as follows:

a) 10% more productive, +2 anger per turn

With this, building a max tech Entertainment Network (-10 anger per turn) will balance out 5 SLCs. 5 SLCs make 4400 minerals per turn. 6 Mineral Miners make 4800 minerals per turn. Alternatively, you could build 10 troops per SLC to balance out the anger. So, 60 troops balance out 6 SLCs, which make 480 more resources per turn than 6 Mineral Miners do.

b) 10% more productive, +1 anger per turn

With this, building a max tech Entertainment Network (-10 anger per turn) will balance out 10 SLCs. 10 SLCs make 8800 minerals per turn. 11 Mineral Miners make 8800 minerals per turn. Alternatively, you could build 5 troops per SLC to balance out the anger. So, 55 troops balance out 11 SLCs, which make 880 more resources per turn than 11 Mineral Miners do.

What do you think should be done? Slave Labor Camps need to have an advantage over Mineral Miners, without being way too much of a burden...

[ August 07, 2004, 22:10: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">FYI only

Fyron when AIC was first released a few Years ago, as you may recall it also included Slave Camps that would yield extra Resources and IIRC that had a 2 to unhappy (Balanced by other positive Happy Facilities).

However, some felt that it may be insensitive so I dropped the Slave Camps immediately.

Call to power also had a Hugh out cry against their Slavers as well, as I later found out.
I was very satisfied the right thing was done when I droped the Camps.
- - -
AIC always had unhappy Planet modifiers on the AIC Intelligence Agency (2u) and Citizen Databanks (1u) and this is balanced by System and Planet happy facilities such as AIC Urban Centers, Universities, Medical Facilities, Military Barracks (5h), etc. and has work very well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ August 07, 2004, 02:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Economic slavery has been a large part of human history for millennia. It is a part of a very large number of sci-fi universes. So are many other very evil things.

There are many items in stock SE4 that could be said to be just as, if not far more, insensitive. Conditions damaging bombs are insensitive to the Japanese that had atomic bombs dropped on them in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Plague bombs are insensitive to the native American tribes that had diseased blankets given to them to so that they would be infected and die by the US military. Hell, they are insensitive to all native Americans, due to Europeans bringing various diseases over to the Americas, wiping out 90% of the native populations. Napalm bombs are insensitive to the people that had friends and/or family killed in any of dozens of cities that had napalm dropped on them to set them on fire and kill civilians during World War II. Stellar manipulation devices that destroy stars or planets, create black holes, etc. are extremely insensitive, as they are weapons of extreme mass destruction. Should we remove all of these things too?

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

FYI only

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

I have to agree with Fyron. Somewhere, someone's grandma was killed by slipping on a banana peel. I still wouldn't ban banana peel jokes.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

So now to change subject... what facilities do you think would make the people unhappy to have near them (on the same planet)?