Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Which, really, is how it should be according to B5...

Although, ISTM that there should be some allowance for slow construction ships earlier on.

You could use the "builds with only two resources" trick, or just limit the build rate of base yards as well.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">WinRAR (at www.rarlabs.com) makes Zip files that WinZip can open up just fine that are much smaller than WinZip can make them. I suggest you use it to make the zips.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I've posted this before. But there was no reaction, so I'll post it again.

SJ: Well, make them a little bit more understandable for the mere mortal like me. I don't really understand anything of the sensors the way they are now. You did a hell of a job on the armor (even I get it now), maybe you could something simillar to the sensors too?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Well, simply, one of each type will stack.

1) Start with the basic sensors/ECM... they're almost always worthwhile, except on civilian ships.
2) Then consider the advanced sensors/ECM... decide whether it is worthwhile to spend 10kt (or 20 for both) of space to get 8% (or whatever level you have) more combat bonus...
3) If you decided to add the advanced, then take a look at the 3rd level sensors/ECM... is it worth spending yet another 10 or 20 kt for an even smaller combat bonus?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Quote form SJ:
is it worth spending yet another 10 or 20 kt for an even smaller combat bonus?

?Que? More space for less bonus? What the... I don't get it.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Ehh... oeps. I think I lost the sensors. Damn, I erased them all. And no, I don't have a spare copy with me here in the Czech Republic. Could someone be so kind to send me all the sensors?
Tjeez, I feel stupid now. Hope you guys can help me out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

You start with say, 40%/0% (ECM/Sensor modifiers)

If you spend 20kt for basic components, you can get that up to, say 60%/20%

If you spend 40kt for both basic and advanced, you get up to maybe 50%/30%
(10%/10% MORE, for 10kt more)

And if you spend 60kt for all 3 classes, you could get 55%/35%
(5%/5% more, for 20kt more space)
IE, less of a boost for the second and third addons... diminishing returns, you see?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Yes, now I see. Thank you for enlightening me oh, ye Great Knower of All. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Ehh... hope someone has time to upload the sensors for me... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Hi again Pathfinder

I'm now reaching the closing stages of my first B5 game - it's been a long haul but generally speaking very entertaining.

Fathoming out the tech's has been a game in itself as I deliberately didn't read through the data files in detail to find out what research lead to which devices; that meant that I went up a few blind alleys before the scientist types sheepishly owned up that they'd wasted all the funding I gave them :lol:!

A few oddities have shown themselves as the games progressed and I have a couple of more general Queries too:

1) Anti-Matter engines and reactors didn't show up in the 'available kit' list when designing ships until I developed the engines up to Prototype V - then they suddenly popped into existence. The technologies would be reported as discovered in the 'start of turn' news but they were nowhere to be found - curious.

2) Multi-warhead missiles don't seem to be able to target seekers - I wonder if this is because they're not actually Point Defence weapons?

3) Only Jump Drive I seems to be available, no matter how many tech levels you develop in it - is this a deliberate restriction or simply that the other stages aren't in the Components file yet?

4) There are no pictures for War-Stations, which gave SE4 a headache when I tried to build one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif . I transplanted a suitable pic and all was fine again but it would be nice if a race specific image was available (I don't have the artistic skill to do this for myself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif !).

5) Despite there being a tech tree for them, there aren't any Advanced Matter Weapons - this was one of the 'blind alleys' I spoke about earlier http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

6) I can understand the reasoning behind Ionic Weapons giving a negative bonus to ships with crews but I'm not sure that it makes sense for them also to give a minus when fitted to satellites (tho' I suppose it's possible to argue that as the satellite is so small the radiation has a negative impact on it's electronics).

7) The "One Space Yard per planet" restriction works fine in the un-modded game but it was an unpleasant surprise in the B5 mod to find out that once I'd built a Space Yard III on an outpost I couldn't then construct an Advanced Military base (which had been the whole point of founding the colony). It might be an idea to put a little warning message on the Space Yard to let players know in advance that this restriction is in effect.

As before, don't take these minor niggles as nagging criticism - it's a great mod you chaps have developed with a lot of interesting ideas that take the game in whole new directions. I hope you take my comments in the spirit they're intended i.e. a form of play-testing report.

One Last question ... I understand the concept of 'leaky armour' inherent in the mod and think it's another one of those good ideas the mod's stacked full of ... but ... isn't it a bit too leaky http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ? I was going up against Destroyers (with fairly puny particle weapons) in Battle Cruisers with maxed out Refractive Armor and was getting big holes shot in my ships!

I guess I was just surprised that the armour was so ineffective and surmise that I must have been doing something wrong on the design front. I was mixing up the various flavours (i.e. Primary, Alternate and Addtional) as well as including ten or twenty units of Structural Supports - does that have a negative impact on the efficiency of the protection? Or did I have unrealstic expectations of how much protection the amounts I fitted (five or six 'slabs') would afford me?

Any clues from the designers as to how to properly construct the 'armour belt' for ships will be gratefully received http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, I know, hard to read my answers in the middle of the quote...so sue me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ June 17, 2003, 23:26: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, first of all, structural supports are just that... since they have fewer hitpoints than most of your components, they are usually hit LAST.
As the description says, though, this can hold the ship together...
If the enemies aren't careful, they'll probably waste shots attacking the dead hulk...

For moderate to small ships, you probably only want the "Primary" Passive Armor, and possibly a second for cruisers.
It gives you some crystalline ability, so you'll take less damage from each hit, but dosen't provide the "bulk"...

You will want to bulk up using inert armor for more solid protection
(the crystalline effect will reduce incoming fire, the inert armor can protect the internals from the rest)

In general, the Heavier the armor, the better.
Even though it has a lower hitpoints per size ratio, the heavy stuff absorbs a greater % of the shots, letting less damage leak into the critical components.
Of course, if your ships are getting vaporized in one volley by large fleets, try lighter armor, for the added hitpoints. Your ship will still be a writeoff, but it will distract the enemies longer.
In small combats, heavy armor is better because your weapons and engines will remain intact longer, allowing you to dish out more damage.

-----
For inert armor;
Light armor = more total hitpoints
Medium armor = average all around.
Heavy armor = more protection to critical systems.

Structural supports are a special case past the extreme-light end of the spectrum... They have infinite hitpoints per KT space, but provide basically no protection to internals.

Passive armor reduces the incoming damage, but can't do all the protecting on its own... think of it as multiplying the hitpoints of your inert armor by a few percentage points.
EG: if your passive armor totals 5 CA points, and your enemy's guns do 20 damage, your inert armor will effectively have 30% more hitpoints.

PS:
And don't bother expecting to not get holes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
With armor, the holes will just be smaller; in combat, anyone who is hit will bleed.

[ June 18, 2003, 00:24: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Imperator Fyron,

I need your assistance in emailing me a copy of my Narn empire file and anything else that I will need to stay in the B5 campaign. My computer bio were conrupted Last week, and lost it all. I got SE4 1.49 up and operating B5 mod OK. Tried downloading my Lastest turn from PBW, but the SE4 wouldn't access those saved files.

Thanks for any assistance you can provide
Lighthorse

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Well... this probably isn't what you wanted to hear, but this is a zip file of my B5 Mod folder (so it works with the PBW game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ):
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newup...1052175132.zip

If you don't want to download all of that again, I can upload a zip of just the Data folder.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Phew... I found a copy of the sensors on my laptop. Jehaa! We're back into business. Today is a slow day. I think I can spare some time to work on 2.0. Yes, live is good with this kind of weather.

At the moment I'm sitting on the balcony of my hotelroom. Beside me is a nice beer and above me shines the sun. I'm overlooking Prague and I'm enjoying the company of my good (and willing) girlfriend. Yes... live is good on days like this. Czechia rulez! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Timstone, you are in Prague with a good and willing girlfriend and YOU ARE FIDDLING ABOUT ON YOUR COMPUTER!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Hmmmm, you need to get out more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Hey, my stuff needs rest sometimes. Tjeez, give some rest will you?!

And how are you Big Cat? How's live treating you?

Later this evening we'll dine at a very expensive restaurant. Yeah, I can affort it easily. That's also great about this country. I'm like a tourist. I can pay for everything easily. I have (compared to here) a high wage, so I can spend money like the upper class here. Great I tell you!
Yes, maybe I'll go and stay here. Nah, not good idea. Lower wage here and I'll miss my sweet good old Holland. But this expensive diner is only the first step towards a big question. I'll ask this girl (sorry woman) if she would like to go with me to Holland. Hope she agrees. If not, I'll knock here unconscious with a brick (Bricktop from Snatch, hehehe) and kipnap her. yeah, that's the way to go.
Oh, to clarify the whole predicament (for the Big Cat). I met this girl before (I mentioned her in a story of mine in Ye Old Cantina, oh sweet memories), but she was on holiday in Holland (she lives in Poland, but a large portion of her family has moved to Holland). She went back to Poland. About three (maybe four) weeks ago I met her again (what are the odds!!) via a friend of mine in Poland. He said he knew a cool girl for me. Our surprise was huge when we saw eachother agian. Since then she and I went to Czechia (I had to go there because of my work) together. Now fingers crossed and off to diner. Yeah! Feeding frenzy!

P.S. The 2.0 Version of the B5 mod is back on track again. I won't have much time this week and the next. But from time to time I have some time to work on it.

Edit:
Reffering to the P.S. piece: Time?! This is no time to argue about time, we don't have the time...

[ June 18, 2003, 16:38: Message edited by: Timstone ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Timstone, I am confused. I dont understand what is happening other than you are working in PRague and some young Polish lady seems to have introduced to you several times as your perfect partner...

Enjoy living like a prince. What work do you do anyhow that takes you to Prague?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I'm an engineer (remember the famous gearbox?) and currently I'm establishing traderoutes if you will with a Polish company and a Czechian company. The name of the game are generators. The one for powering a large factory (2 to 5 MW). It has been a long trip (two months). I really wnat to go home again, but with a prize... hehehe...

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

OK, so you are fiddling about with some generators for a Polish company and a Czech company and also a Polish bird....

Right, does this involve nappies?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Hahaha... would like to know eh...
Nah, she's toilet-trained.
A little question Big Cat. Do you still remember the tale I posted in The Cantina (the one about the timetravelling gearbox and RD and I ending up in Midevil Europe)? Hope you do. Otherwise the tings I told you now would be meaningless and not understandable for you. If you need any clearification just tell me.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Timstone, I am trying to forget that story - as I recall, that kicked off when I was "off forum" in Japan or Borneo or Morocco so dont remember all the details, other than the fact that we didn't manage to lose you in 1240.

Oh well, better luck next time. Perhaps you should make a guest appearance in the BarTrek thread as our resident Dutch engineering and nappy expert

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Hahaha... fiasco! You bastard you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
You what they say in Holland about not able to lose me? "Onkruid vergaat niet." It roughly translates as "Weed never dies.".
And no, I'm not starring as the Famous Dutch engineer and nappy expert, I really don't have the time. Maybe, just maybe after two weeks, when I'm back home. With my prize, I hope...

Now, I off to diner, wish me luck.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

No worries Timstone, now remember that the fork goes to the left of your plate, the knife to the right, dont put your napkin in your collar or in your troUsers, dont especially pull your trouser pockets inside out, unzip your flies and pull your "bratwurst" out and tell your girlfriend this is your elephant impression.

Do use cutlery, dont guzzle your wine, dont fart at the table, and dont say to your girlfriend "hey, I said to Eric Clapton that if he likes my "Wonderful Tonight" song then go ahead and use it, just dont mention me on the record" chat up line

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Good luck Timstone, a bird in the hand is... well potentially messy really, but we're not talking that kinda bird are we. Hope it goes very well.

Oh, and I thought you were a physicist... didn't you go and do some work on the large telescope in Hawaii at one point?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Thanks for the responses Pathfinder and SJ :thumbsup:.

The advice on the use of all the disperate types of armour will come in handy next game SJ ... I knew I was doing something wrong http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif .

I was aware that the Structural Supports didn't contribute much to the overall 'armour' effect, I was just concerned that by putting them on I was somehow intefering with the ability of the advanced armour types to do their job (as I vaguely recalled reading somewhere around here that mixing up the kinds of armour caused the protection effects to become eratic).

From what you say tho', it seems I either misremembered what I'd read or that the problem has now been cured. Many thanks.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

-=-=-=-=-= NON Babbylon 5 Mod related stuff-=-=-=-=-=

Hey Timstone! Before Jean Luc recruits you for the TSSS Phong's Head you could always join me. The Deadstar continuum is always looking for an ally to combat The Galactic Federation. I mean it's like 5-7 guys against poor old me! Ragnarok isn't posting much so any help would be appreciated when you get back http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I'm sure we could find an overly evil and destructive use for that gearbox of yours! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I Now return you to your preprogrammed Babylon 5 Mod thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

The only difference you should notice when adding two different types of armor is that you have less space for each individual type, and thus get less of their effect http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Dinner went well, and the night even better...

Big Cat: Thanks for the advise, I needed it. Always forget those basic things when I'm having a feeding frenzy.

Jimbob: That would be the VLT (Very Large Telescope) in Chile. I only went there for one month, enoug to Last me a livetime, bleh...

RD: Sure, I'll join you. I'm always on the lookout for other evil geniuses, but after my work/vacantion in Czechia. Sure is a pitty that good old Rags doesn't post anymore. btw, how's old Mac?

B5Mod 2.0: Ah, yes. Yesterday I sorted out the weapons every race can get (general stuff).
Now a question about the weapons families. How do they work? Is it so that every laser (no mater how it's called) gets the same Weapon Family number and every missile (no matter how it's called) gets the same Weapon Family number or does every tech (be it, bLast laser, breaching pods, basic missile, etc.) gets a different family number? Oh, and most important, what does it represent, how does the computer use it?

SJ: Ehh... yesterday I saw that the armor is a bit strange. You gave Structural Support 1A the same roman numeral as 1F, only 2A till 2F has a higher roman numeral. Why is this?
The same with the light, medium and heavy armor. They all got roman numeral 1. Does that mean the computer also sorts out the different upgrades (better armor) acording to the research levels involved? I don't get it.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Bumpski...

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">ohh, God, he is learning Polish already http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Hahaha... LOL!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Every weapon type needs it's own family (as they have now). All missiles do not get one family, each type of missile needs its own family number. In the unmodded game, Capital Ship Missiles and Plasma Torpedoes are both missiles, but they get separate family numbers because they are different weapons. CSM I and CSM II have the same family, but PT I has a different family. The AI uses the family numbers in making ship designs.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The letter part of the name is an upgrade of that level of armor (the number part). 1B is not a new level of armor above 1A, it is an upgrade of the 1 series of armor. I hope that made sense. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Yes, quite clear my good man. Thanks for the advise.
The only thing I can think about now is why does the computer need two family numbers (Weapon Family number and Family number), but that should be of use with the non-weapon thingies.
Thanks again for the clear explanation. Two thumbs up for you.

Edit01: Almost 600 Posts. Yehaa!

Edit02: Nice number of Posts in this thread; 3232. Niiiice.

[ June 20, 2003, 20:49: Message edited by: Timstone ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Timstone: good news on the girl... excellent!
Oh, and PM for you too.

Edit: Hey, I'm only 3 Posts away from 600 myself! That's a surprise http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Course I'm still less than 1/10 of the way to the number of Posts that Fyron has...

[ June 21, 2003, 00:39: Message edited by: jimbob ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

i have got a low amount of Posts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I finally finished going through the tech file to sort out the confusion it was causing me. The conclusions I reached follow. I will split it into three Posts to avoid the "huge page of ink" effect and boost my post count! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

1. Mine Tech beyond 3 is only used in the various Versions of the Anti-mine Missile. This seems counter-intuitive. AMM progress should be based on Ballistic Missile technology, with Mine tech 1 required to advance to AMM III, then Mine tech 2 to AMM VI, and Mine tech 3 for above VI.

2. Similarly, the minesweeper component should need progression in Mine tech as above.

3. I think jump gates should be bases, not ships. The explorer class ships, BTW, were construction ships for the EA jump gates, and the jump gates were immobile once constructed.

4. We need to implement pseudo-Newtonian movement for fighters. As it is, larger fighters are mostly just faster than small ones, which seems counter-intuitive. I have started this already, if anyone wants to see it.

5. The Anti-fighter Missiles, like the AMM, require fighter tech equal to AFM level (even though fighter tech only goes to level 6, and thus AFM above AFM VI will never be available). The fighter tech required for AFM should mirror that of the AMM above.

6. Infantry max level should be 3, not 4. There is no result for Inf tech 4.

7. Currently there is no way to raise planet conditions. This can be a crippling factor for the races that have low reproduction or low tolerance if they get a planet with “unpleasant” conditions. I recommend that the Homeworld Hub get the added ability of raising planetary conditions by 1%, 2% and 3% for levels I, II, and III respectively.

8. The Shipboard Space Yard should have a family different than the Base shipyard. I recommend 11005, which is free.

9. The Supply depot component doesn’t seem necessary. Recommend it be deleted.

10. It is peculiar that the cargo hold component size is so big (75 kt), given that a cargo hold is the most easily resized component there could be: it is just space, in essence. Recommend that all sizes, costs, and capacities be divided by five, to make the cargo versus speed payoff more interesting. Troop, fighter, satellite, and mine capacities would be unchanged.

11. The resupply tech seems a waste of space. Its only effect is to allow for larger depots, which would logically be a function of cargo tech, not resupply tech. Recommend that it be deleted and the resupply tech requirements in facilities.txt be changed to cargo.

12. Nothing uses any armor tech level above 2 except the Drazi external launch rails II component, which requires armor level 3! Since armor is one of the more expensive techs, recommend that the armor requirement for the Drazi be dropped, and that the max tech level for armor be set to 2.

13. Nothing uses the cloaking technology. Should be deleted.

14. Nothing uses sensor tech above level 8. Recommend making the max tech level 8.

15. The current treatment of scanners doesn’t make sense to me. Current, scanner tech can go to level 7, but only the Ancients can use Long Range Scanners level 6 and 7. There is no logical reason why Scanner 6 and Scanner 7 components should not be “Ancient Scanner 1” and “Ancient Scanner 2”, with added scanners 3-5. Then, limit scanner tech to level 5. The ancients should enjoy the advantage of their ancient tech. They shouldn’t have to research the “mundane” scanner techs to get to the “good stuff.”

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

16. The only payoff for Computer tech beyond tech 1 is “Computer combat” which isn’t a tech used in this mod. Recommend delete CC tech area and set max computer tech level to 1.

17. The only thing that uses Minerals Extraction tech 4 is the Aggressive Mining Colony III. AMC advancement is unusual: AMC I is available at ME tech 2, AMC II at tech 3, and AMC III is available at tech 4. I think it is cleaner and more logical to assume that AMCs are not higher tech, they are just less careful. They should be available at the same tech level as their non-aggressive counterparts, and the ridiculously low payoff for the hideously expensive ME tech level 4 wouldn’t have to be rationalized. Players also get to make the choice of doubling their output at the cost of reducing the planet to a wasteland (for Am doubles the effectiveness of the equivalent regular MC, but that assumes that the choice is between the two, which it is not if the AMC requires a higher tech). I also think the mineral costs should be the same for the AMC as the MC, rather than higher. In fact, it probably SHOULD be lower, given that no environmental safeguards need to be provided.

18. Max level for ME, OE, and RE should be 3, not 9!

19. The Stellar Manipulation tech is not used and should be deleted.

20. The max level of Applied Intelligence that is used is 3, not 4.

21. The maximum level of Medical Technology used is 4, not 10.

22. Organic technology is not used, but should be. I think it should be left in for now, and self-healing ships should be introduced at some point.

23. Planet Utilization tech is not used and should be removed.

24. Advanced Military Science is okay as is, but I did note that the facility “Advanced Military Outpost” really only makes sense as a replacement for the manufacturing colony. It does not generate any resources, though (not that I ever understood why the ManC did so!) nor is it a spaceport for the system. This facility needs a bit of work before it is ready for prime time.

25. Applied Political Science tech is not used and should be deleted.

26. Organic Engineering is not used, but should be as per above.

27. Physics should have a max level of 2, not 4.

28. Psychic Studies is not used (except by Psychic weapons, itself not used) and both should be removed.

29. Psychology is not used and should be removed.

30. Religious Studies is not used and should be removed.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

31. Temporal Studies is not used except by Temporal Weapons and both should be removed.

32. Biotech Weapons should have a maximum level of 10, not 12.

33. “Ballistic” is mis-spelled under (the first) Advanced Planetary Weapons in the techarea.txt file. There are two techs, both called “Advanced Planetary Weapons.” One is under weapons technology, the other under advanced weapons technology. Dunno if this was deliberate or not, but there are two approaches to the weapons allowed by that tech. Of course, researching the second one is dumb if you have already done the first!

34. Organic Weapons is not used and should be removed, unless there is a desire to use them for Old Ones.

35. Ditto Crystalline Weapons.

36. I didn’t even try to do anything with the unique techs, as we all know they need work.

37. Stellar Harnessing is not used and should be removed.

38. Fission Utilization should have a max level of 4, not 3.

39. Fusion Utilization should have a max level of 4, not 3.

40. Ditto for A-M and Gravimetric Utilization

I didn’t look at all the racial and weapons techs. They need to be examined race by race.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I also have had some time to get deeper into my engine analysis. the current engine setup isn't very continuous, because it has big jumps at certain points. It also maxes out speed of the big ships (due to the 256 engines limit)quite early.

What i am trying to do is come up with a schema that uses a better mix of engine points and bonus movement points to create a more continuous curve of improvements, without getting too distorted by the effects of bonus movement points.

Timstone, I strongly urge you in Version 2.0 to stick with ship hull sizes in even multiples of 100, and make it cost 1 engine per 100 KT to move, vice the 1 per 50 now used. That would simplify things a lot.

PF: I also have been looking at the AI effects on research and speed. Two things struck me:
1. The AI doesn't seem to get a call to research propulsion above level 13. Am I reading that incorrectly?
2. The AI gets the call to research Antimatter Utilization very late - after it could have been using AM engines, in fact. Was that by design, or just the way it turned out?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

BTW, I could add my new tech file, but have forgotten how to upload here! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

To upload, go to the main Intel Forums page. Go into the first Category (mods scenarios uploads), and pick the appropriate thread.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You have to have a movement point available to open or close a WP, so bases can not use them. So, they must be on ships.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Val had a very good reason for making them so large. Perhaps someone else will remember.

[ June 22, 2003, 06:53: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Grumbler: Tjeez, you've been busy. Too much time on your hands? Rest assured most of the thingies you've found will be taken care of. The strange things you've found in the facilities did escape me. So I've changed them accordingly.The reason for the large amount of open tech levels is (very surprisingly): The Mod isn't finished yet.
Because of my busy schedule at the moment I can't take care of all the bugs, but Posts like this really help track them all down. When I'm ready to release a test Version of the 2.0 Version, hope to get as many Posts with good advise and bug locations. Keep up the good work!

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

IF: Good point about the movement. I had forgotten (never actually built any, meself, in all the games that I have played! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif )

Timstone: I know that the mod isn't finished yet, and that's why "delete" for the time being should consist just of adding a racial area to the tech, such as 2 (deeply religious). You have to do this for the nonce anyway, since the AI still calls for those techs and if you simply erase them you will get an error message.

I did find out why you cannot have aggressive mining at tech level 1, though: if you do, all the mining stations on the homeworld are aggressive in the setup! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif That might be kinda cool for a "we have to get off the homeworld before we choke on our own excesses" scenario, but that's not B5's canon.

So, while I still think the tradeoff should be there, it cannot start at Mining Tech 1. Perhaps the AMC I should be deleted and the tradeoffs just be between MC II and AMC II and MC III and AMC III.

And, TS, I didn't do this all in a day. I actually started the tech-tracing before my computer went down in the early spring, and I finally got the couple hours needed to finish it.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Good digging Grumbler. And good thing you are on the net again.
I've done some digging and numbercrunching of my own and I decided to swap the costs of the Agressive Mining and normal Mining buildings. I also modified the tech levels a bit. Though, I'm not sure what to do with the excess levels (Val gave 9 levels of minerals extraction, rads extraction and organics extraction). Ah well, maybe a good idea will come to me (probably in the middle of the night).
Again, excellent work my good man. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Edit: Oh shoot I forgot, could someone upload his (or her) settings.txt? I really need it to verify some things.

[ June 22, 2003, 18:24: Message edited by: Timstone ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Thanks, Tim,

Another bit of data I grubbed out but never got to post, on Education Centers and Arch Sites:

Comparing the Archaeological Site with the Educational Center we find that we have some problems.

The following rations help explain the problem ratios are the AS number divided by the EC number:

AS I to EC I:
Cost Minerals: 0.41
Planet - Shield Generation: 2.00
Point Generation – Research: 0.67

AS II to EC II:
Cost Minerals: 0.44
Planet - Shield Generation: 2.00
Point Generation – Research: 0.75

AS II to EC II:
Cost Minerals: 0.45
Planet - Shield Generation: 2.00
Point Generation – Research: 0.80

Each has a unique ability usable by only one per planet, but these I will ignore for the nonce, because as I will show, the AI will build a single AS on each research planet anyway, and the Ship Training capability is not generally applicable.

The problem with the current setup is that the AI follows a very inefficient path on its research planets. To give an example of how profound this can be, I will use the following case:

Assume a small planet. Assume that the population of the planet is 250 million (though this assumption is only for illustrative purposes, it isn’t too far off from what you typically find). Ignoring for the nonce population growth, you have 380 construction points per turn. Assume Research tech level I.

The AI will follow the following pattern when it builds up the planet:
Build EC I
Build AS I
Build three more EC I
Build Medical Center I
Build two Covert Ops Center I
Build two EC I

I, as a human player, on the other hand, build more rationally and never use the EC as follows (I will build the MC I and CoC I even though I probably wouldn’t myself, as otherwise the comparison becomes impossible):

Build five AS I
Build Medical Center I
Build two Covert Ops Center I
Build two AS I

Now, the AI will spend 286 turns to complete the planet, while I will spend 172 turns. True, at the end of it the IA has a planet producing 7446 RP per turn and my only produces 5986, but I have had a lot of RP production in the meantime that the AI has not.

After 50 turns, the AI has totaled 19,710 RP, and I have 44,530.

After 100 turns, the AI has totaled 110,960 RP, and I have 201,188

After 200 turns, the AI has totaled 565,969 RP, and I have 670,578

In fact, after 300 turns my method still holds the edge in total accumulated RP, 1,225,378 to 1,155,225. Given especially the disproportionate advantage of early RPs, it is clear that the AI strategy, while logical, give a human player an enormous advantage.

There are two solutions: reduce the cost of the EC, or increase the cost of the AS. As the game already moves so slowly, I think that former is the solution.

If the EC’s price is set to 150% of the AS, it still makes sense to build both of them on a planet. While building an all-AS planet still provides an early edge, by turn 100 of the planet’s history the AI strategy will be 16% better than the all-AS strategy.

In order for this solution to work though, the ratio of the EC producing 50% more RPs than the AS must be maintained at the higher tech levels. The current methodology simply adds 250 RP per level to both facilities. I think that it would be better to just increase production by 33% for each facility, thus yielding the following RPs at levels I/II/III (rounding a bit for ease of comprehension):

Archaeological Site: 500/665/885
Educational Center: 750/1000/1325

Thoughts?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

And I think everybody has realized that the costs for Covert Ops Center and Listening Post sould be reversed? Otherwise, no one should ever build a CoC, as they are twice the cost but not as good.

One LP is the most any system needs.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Another somewhat trivial question: was it deliberate that the scout ship and fast courier do not obey the Newtonian rules (i.e. have one engine per move vice what should be 2 and 3 respectively)? Would it not be better to simply not require life support or crew quarters under the assumption that the bridge was big enough to include all that for the small crew?

My problem is that I guess I have a hard time making seclected ship typres violate the laws of physics to make the game work! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

As it is, the scouts are no big deal, but the advantage the FC has is so enormous as to make it generally unwise to build any other transport type.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Still having problems getting the AI to build spaceports properly. I thought the "scammer jammer" dodge would work, but since SJ isn't a system-wide phenomena, every planet builds a trading post if you give the SJ ability to the TP. But if you don't, then no system builds a spaceport-type facility.

If you actually call for the "spaceport" ability, then the AI choses the most advanced facility with that capability - the Homeworld Hub! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

If we use an unused system-wide capability to get the spaceport ability, then all of the AI construction_facility files need to be redone. If we just use the SP ability (and just not make the HH a spaceport), then this will still require rewriting the c_f files.

The easiest thing to do would be to just make all the races "natural merchants" (or whatever that trait is called that eliminates the need for spaceports) and get rid of the SP ability for homeworld hubs (else you will not start with one), but it seems a shame to get rid of a concept that is so inherent to the original game and which makes so much sense.

Thoughts? Alternative suggestions?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Those ships are supposed to be really really fast. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

If you require no CQ or LS, then the ship will get penalties to it's movement when you build it, as it will not have at least one CQ and one LS on it. You can add the abilities to the hull to get around this though.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Grumbler: I already saw the mistake with the Covert ops Center and the Listening Post. But very sharp of you.
I didn't crunch that many numbers (I hate testing, besides I have more fun things to do...) on research. The only thing I can say is: GREAT WORK. Really I mean it, your approach is good. The most logical thing for me to do is to addapt your recomendations. So, I will.
Nice work.