Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sanctions don't really do anything you know; when there's a will to make money, there is ALWAYS a way. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It doesn't help when American companies have these unions who are demanding sky-high wages, and won't back down. No wonder a lot of American products costs so much; they have to provide the money for those wages. I for one don't believe we no longer need unions. Between federal laws and OSHA, all of the original concerns 100 years ago that forced unions to be created no longer exist. I believe unions are now just an extenion of organized crime, and only exist now to finance the mob. We get rid of the unions, maybe increase our minimum wage rate by a $1.00 or so, and maybe American prices will come down so they can be competitive to foreign products.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I hope not French Canada hehe, J/K everyone, well if I had to vote which part of Canada could be part of the US, I would take the western half, sorry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, speaking for the Western half of Canada, we dont' really want to join America any time soon. Yep, no wars suits me just fine. Hardly any national enemies.... ya that's good too. And everyone loves Canadians!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No you don't really want it, you just bring it up whenever Ottawa isn't sufficiently attentive.

I've got a chick-friend like this. When she's not getting enough attention from her fellow she starts flirting with me, in fun. Like Western Canada we keep it strictly verbal and above-the-table. But apparently it works, and his jealousy gets her what she wants out of the situation. And despite his occasional threats on my life, we're pretty good friends.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

As long as Western Canada doesn't ever shout out "Oh Washington" when she's maiking love to Ottowa. That would be really akward, and could have serious ramifications for our Free Trade agreement. Not to mention Ottowa might get a complex and have trouble keeping Newfoundland above the artic circle.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

Keep in mind that increasing minimum wage always leads to some people losing their jobs and to inflation. It is a fine balancing act, not to be tread lightly.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

[quote]Originally posted by gregebowman:

Quote:

Originally posted by TerranC: It doesn't help when American companies have these unions who are demanding sky-high wages, and won't back down. No wonder a lot of American products costs so much; they have to provide the money for those wages. I for one don't believe we no longer need unions. Between federal laws and OSHA, all of the original concerns 100 years ago that forced unions to be created no longer exist. I believe unions are now just an extenion of organized crime, and only exist now to finance the mob. We get rid of the unions, maybe increase our minimum wage rate by a $1.00 or so, and maybe American prices will come down so they can be competitive to foreign products.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually it's not that American products cost too much it's that Chinese goods et.al are allowed to get away with working conditions and practices that I am sure most or you would not want for this country.

I would imagine most U.S. citizens wouldn't work in the conditions that Chinese workers et. al. are forced to work in.

Chinese companies are allowed to dumb raw toxic waste into their rivers and pollute their air - I would challenge anyone who claims there are too many regulations to go to Beijing and then claim they would want to live in that Toxic wasteland.

I am not sure what you mean by "sky-high" union wages. But I do know that most equivalent non union workers get paid the $5.00/hour minimum wage with no health benefits. And those federal laws mentioned are being eroded or simply not enforced by the current administration.

[ January 15, 2004, 20:18: Message edited by: rextorres ]

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, here is a little quizz for you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

True or false: US industrial production is less than $140 billion.
(US imports from China is about $140 billion).
True or false: China has more than 375 Million slaves/prison workers
(Chinas total workforce is 750 Millions)

Numbers from the CIA factbook

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

If you think the place of manufacture is all you have to consider, think again!

Bill Moyers did a feature on Walmart on his PBS show "NOW with Bill Moyers" a few weeks ago.

http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/walmart.html

Wal-Mart Facts and Figures

World's largest retailer, 2003: Wal-Mart
United State's largest private employer, 2003: Wal-Mart
Wal-Mart's worldwide workforce: 1.3 million
Wal-Mart's most 2002 annual sales figures: $245 billion
Gross Domestic Product of Switzerland, 2002: 231 billion
Number of Wal-Mart stores worldwide: 4,300
Number of Wal-Mart stores opened on October 29, 2003: 39
Average hourly wage of Wal-Mart employee, 2001: $8.23
Average hourly wage of unionized supermarket workers: $10.35
Wal-Mart's price of Kellogg's Corn Flakes vs. competitors price: 56%

I had heard they had some labor troubles and lawsuits, but the truth is beyond belief! It gives new meaning to terms like 'skinflint' and 'Scrooge'... Check this out:

Their average employee working in the US makes $15,000 a year, $7.22 per hour! These employees gross under $11,000 a year. The company brags that 70% of their employees are full time, but fails to disclose that they count anyone working 28 hours a week or more as full time. There are no health care benefits unless you have worked for the company for two years. With a turnover rate averaging above 50% per year, only 38% of their 1.3 million employees have health care coverage. In California alone it's estimated that the taxpayers pay over $20 million annually to subsidize health care benefits for these employees who get none from this behemoth corporation.

According to a report by PBS's "Now" with Bill Moyer, their managers are trained in what government social programs are available for these "employees" to take advantage of so that the company can pass on those costs to the government (meaning taxpayers). It allows them to not only keep their $7 BILLION in annual profits, but to do so by substituting benefits they refuse to provide with benefits paid for with taxpayer dollars.

The National Labor Relations Board has issued over 40 formal complaints against the corporation in 25 different states in just the past five years. The NLRB's top lawyer believed that their labor violations, such as illegal spying on employees, fraudulent record keeping, falsifying time cards to avoid paying overtime, threats, illegal firings for union organizing etc., were so widespread that he was looking into filing a very rare national complaint against the company. (The company contributed $2,159,330.00 to GW Bush and the GOP in 2000 and 2002. The NLRB attorney was replaced when President Bush took office.).

They force employees to work after ordering them to punch out. In Texas alone this practice of "wage theft" is estimated to have cost employees $30 million per year. Wage theft or "off-the-clock" lawsuits are pending in 25 states. In New Mexico they paid $400,000.00 in one suit and in Colorado they had to pay $50 MILLION to settle one class-action case brought against them. In Oregon a jury found them guilty of locking employees in the building and of forcing unpaid overtime.

This company holds the record for the most suits filed against it by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. A lawyer from "Business Week" (not exactly the bastion for supporting Labor) said, "I have never seen this kind of blatant disregard for the law." They had to pay $750,000.00 in Arizona for blatant discrimination against the disabled! The judge was so incensed that he also ordered them to run commercials admitting their guilt.

Nearly 1 MILLION women are involved in the largest class-action suit ever filed against a corporation. Although women make up over 65% of this corporations work force only 10% of them are managers. The women who have become store managers make $16,400 a year LESS then the men.

The corporation took out nearly 350,000 life insurance policies on their employees. They did not tell the employees and named the corporation as the beneficiary. They are now being sued by numerous employees, and although the corporation has stopped this practice of purchasing what is known as "Dead Peasant Policies", a company spokesperson stated, "The company feels it acted properly and legally in doing this."

They practice "predatory pricing": They come into a community and sell their goods at below cost until they drive local businesses under. Once they have captured the market the prices go up. Locally owned and operated businesses put virtually all of their money back into the community which helps keep the local economies vibrant. This corporation sucks the money out of the local community, decreases wages and benefits and ships the profits out of state. This company doesn't buy locally or bank locally. They replace three decent paying jobs in a community with two poorly paid "part-timers". In Kirksville, Missouri when this company came to town, four clothing stores, four grocery stores, a stationary store, a fabric store and a lawn-and-garden store all went under. Eleven businesses are now gone. (The above information can be found in "Thieves in High Places", James Hightower, The Penguin Group, New York, NY, 2003 p. 166 - 193.)

In Contra Costa County, northeast of Oakland, the county board enacted a ban on so-called big box stores. Walmart responded with a phony voter registration drive meant to put a measure on the ballot to overturn the ban. For this they paid canvassers a higher wage than they pay their own employees.

[ January 15, 2004, 23:45: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Weird, I have a friend like that too....

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

Well, I don't know how it works for you, but I'd have to admit that I started it. Few things are as entertaining and without risk as flirting with married (or otherwise firmly attached) women.

Not that I'm trying to derail the topic here or anything. I'm all for calling a spade a spade and Wal-Mart the devil. This is entertaining and without risk as well, though not quite so entertaining...

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

Well, no I didn't start it. Just turns out she liked me and I didn't even know it. Whenever she gets in a spat with her boyfriend, she comes to me. But I'm still in highschool, so maybe this has something to do with the weird dynamics that exist in every highschool that don't exist anywhere else.

(Edit: Sorry for getting the off topic topic farther off topic http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

[ January 16, 2004, 00:28: Message edited by: Renegade 13 ]