Re: Melee Power Rankings Chart
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Got it=) AP doesn't affect the actual results, though, until I add trample. Or mod-output capability. So the previous results still stand http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Melee Power Rankings Chart
 

The combat simulator tells me that the number of ulm guardians or knights I can get for the first two turns of gold/resource will do far better against indies than the same amount spent on pikeneer_1s. But in play, the pikeneers seem to do dramatically better.

This seems to be for three reasons:

1, Most important, the repel causes indies to rout sooner.
2. The greater size of the starting out army with pikeneers causes my army to be less likely to rout.
3. The guardians/knights get bunched up in the default starting forces and don't actually do as much. On the other hand, if two or three knights are deployed such that they engage by themselves, they have a too high chance of dying.

Re: Melee Power Rankings Chart
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Repel is important, and the morale pool is important. However, there's another factor: Being swarmed.

The power ranking chart is generally 1-on-1, while in-game combat occurs many-on-many. This has two MAJOR effects:

1) A defense decrease each time a unit is struck, which is important versus Groups, and irrelevant in 1-on-1 combat.

2) Every action causes fatigue. 6 Pikeneers with 6 encumbrance could attack 7*100/6 = 119 times before passing out. 2 Black Knights with 5 encumbrance can attack only 2*100/5 times = 40 times, plus 2 lance attacks and 40 some 10-damage hoof attacks that won't really kill anything. Total 82 attacks, but considering that half of them are "hoof" attacks... let's say 60 net attacks. So against a horde of weaklings, Black Knights would pass out before killing as many units as Pikeneers. Fatigue also decreases unit stats and so forth.

So, to see whether you're better off with pikeneers or Black Knights, simulate EXACTLY what you want to do:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">C:\Projects\Java\Dominions&gt;java RectMatrix 7*ulm.pikeneer.1 2*ulm.black.knight
vs 20*light.inf 10000
..

Deathmatch Power Ratings for 10000 rounds:

7*Ulm Pikeneer 1 ------------ Wins: 70.8% Power: 1919 Overall: 1397
2*Ulm Black Knight ---------- Wins: 12.0% Power: 189 Overall: 347
20*Light Inf ---------------- Wins: 58.6% Power: 1293 Overall: 1000

Average --------------------- Wins: 47.1% Power: 1133 Overall: 914
Median ---------------------- Wins: 58.6% Power: 1293 Overall: 1000</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This fights 7 ulm pikeneers against 20 indy LI, then 2 knights against 20 indy LI. And as you can see, the pikes do better!

For reference, the syntax is:

java RectMatrix #*a1 #*a2 ... vs #*b1 #*b2 ... battles

where
# means the number of that unit type
a1, a2, ... mean the name of a unit
b1, b2, ... mean the name of a unit
"vs" is between the "a" units and "b" units.
"rounds" is the number of rounds for each engagement

This will make each unit on side "a" fight each unit on side "b" in a rectangular matrix. For example, in this scenario:

java RectMatrix 10*a1 10*a2 5*a3 vs 1*b1 1*b2 100

Each engagement would be fought to the death 100 times, and there would be 6 engagements, as follow:

ten a1's versus one b1
ten a2's versus one b1
five a3's versus one b1
ten a1's versus one b1
ten a2's versus one b2
five a3's versus one b2

[ March 05, 2004, 22:44: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

Re: Melee Power Rankings Chart
 

Incidentally...

Note that the big chart in this thread has "Deathmatch" rankings and "Gauntlet" rankings. The difference is that 1-on-1 "Gauntlet" is more like a real battle - units keep replacing the dead until 50 rounds are up, whereas "Deathmatch" ends as soon as one side or the other dies.

So the power rankings in "Gauntlet" mode are much more realistic for normal scenarios -1v1 "Deathmatch" is better for assassinations, Arena combat, and battles between very small armies (like a scout versus some local militia).

However, to really accurately model a large battle (homogenous on each side) you can't use the 1-on-1 numbers from the "Battle Rankings"... instead model the battle with RectMatrix or Fight using unit multipliers as shown below. The power rankings are just a sort of guideline.

If you look at Black Knights and Pikeneers in the Deathmatch mode, Black Knights are 20X as good... but in Gauntlet mode, they are only 2X as good.

Black Templars with a Nature/Earth blessing (reinvigoration/berserk/regeneration) would do much better, though. You can simulate blessing effects in the combat sim, but you have to do it in the unittypes file, not in the command line.

[ March 05, 2004, 23:28: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

Re: Melee Power Rankings Chart
 

I am bumping the old (ancient) thread having the unit listings Saber Cherry created with the help of her Java-based Combat Simulator. I think a link is somewhere in this thread, and it can be easily found by searching for Combat (not Battle!) Simulator. It produces numerical stats for units fighting. It might not support all the abilities of units, but it has most of them.

This was Last updated in (edit:) March, so it is a bit outdated... One more reason to learn how to 'pay for the free things'. Check the 'Time to pay up' thread for more information about that.

[ June 11, 2004, 19:08: Message edited by: Endoperez ]

Re: Melee Power Rankings Chart
 

Yay, some new deathmatch ratings, with new functionality!

I changed some things. First off, in response to Wombats' email, I fixed the combat sim's big bug, which was that it was not correctly calculating (att vs def) rolls since the last version when I tried to speed up some calculations.

Second, scores are no longer calculated on the basis of wins versus losses. Instead, the score is calculated based on kills versus deaths. So if 10 Ulm infantry fight 10 militia, with 10 militia deaths and all Ulm troops surviving, that is a 100% win. But if 10 light infantry fight 10 militia, all the milita die, and only 5 light infantry survive... that is a 75% win. This change makes the simulator MUCH more accurate for group versus group combat. After all, if you eliminate 99% of the enemy troops with (for example) a summoned lessor horror, that's basically as good as winning.

Lastly, and most interesting, I made an "Equalize" mode that takes a whole bunch of units and fights them against each other over and over (for 4 days...) and adjusts the squad size each time until the perfom roughly the same. This is enumerated below. The far left number is the the number of that unit type that is equivalent in melee combat to 200 militia (the kind with a spear and leather cuirass). That does not mean they beat 200 militia 50% of the time, but that they perform as well as 200 militia (or any other listed group), on average, when fighting all the other listed groups. Thus, if you are fighting a random squadron listed below (for example, 200 militia, 165 soulless warriors, 65 imps, or 4 lesser horrors) but don't know which one you are facing, any of the below squadrons would have a similar chance of success. Note that "Win %" and "Overall Score" don't seem to directly correlate... well, um, that's hard for me to explain, but basically, if a group has a high win% and low overall score, it does well against groups with a low win% and bad against groups a high win%, and vice versa. Anyway, there is some opinion and guesswork that goes into the formula that ranks these, but I don't think it's possible to have them all get a 50% win rate, so that's probably OK. Although I'll look into it =)

Regardless! For now, I'm assuming that (In melee combat versus other listed groups only) the below groups are all of approximately equal value, which will help me determine gold costs and potential unit buffs for my mod. And hopefully it will help other people as well. Just remember that these rankings are limited to other listed members! Against cavalry (which have higher than normal defense, and are not included in this simulation run) or ethereal units or with mages casting spells, the balance of power will change.

And one more thing - the program tried to make all the group sizes so that the far right number was equal to 1000, but obviously, it didn't quite make it (and it is probably impossible to get exactly). So if 23 Pan Centaur Cataphracts (which are not TECHNICALLY cavalry) have a score of 1110, that means that they're slightly stronger average, but probably a group of 22 would be lower than 1000, and 23 (at overall score = 1110) is the closest the program could get to equivalence (1000).

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Deathmatch Power Ratings for 12 rounds:

200*Militia ----------------- Wins: 46.2% Power: 892 Overall: 913
423*Blood Slave ------------- Wins: 29.3% Power: 501 Overall: 938
121*Militia Elite ----------- Wins: 54.2% Power: 1133 Overall: 974
141*Militia Medium ---------- Wins: 51.7% Power: 1053 Overall: 979
129*Tribal Warrior ---------- Wins: 48.7% Power: 961 Overall: 957
110*Light Inf --------------- Wins: 56.3% Power: 1207 Overall: 981
92*Light Inf Javelin -------- Wins: 56.6% Power: 1217 Overall: 991
91*Heavy Inf Ring ----------- Wins: 56.5% Power: 1215 Overall: 1022
66*Heavy Inf Scale ---------- Wins: 54.6% Power: 1148 Overall: 995
60*Heavy Inf Chain ---------- Wins: 54.2% Power: 1134 Overall: 1003
94*Barbarian Maul ----------- Wins: 52.2% Power: 1069 Overall: 966
70*Barbarian Sword ---------- Wins: 56.0% Power: 1194 Overall: 1016
83*Lizard Warrior ----------- Wins: 58.7% Power: 1297 Overall: 996
154*Raptor ------------------ Wins: 54.8% Power: 1154 Overall: 979
149*Ichtyid ----------------- Wins: 55.2% Power: 1166 Overall: 974
92*Ichtyid Warrior ---------- Wins: 54.8% Power: 1154 Overall: 993
195*Triton Knife ------------ Wins: 53.9% Power: 1123 Overall: 991
154*Triton Spear ------------ Wins: 55.8% Power: 1188 Overall: 989
126*Triton Guard ------------ Wins: 58.2% Power: 1278 Overall: 1011
200*Wolf -------------------- Wins: 53.6% Power: 1113 Overall: 1007
66*Mercenary Hammer --------- Wins: 56.6% Power: 1217 Overall: 1044
56*Mercenary Sword ---------- Wins: 56.9% Power: 1230 Overall: 1021
68*Mercenary Spear ---------- Wins: 55.1% Power: 1163 Overall: 1008
62*Mercenary Morningstar ---- Wins: 53.3% Power: 1105 Overall: 987
81*Mercenary Pike ----------- Wins: 58.0% Power: 1270 Overall: 1008
61*Mercenary Crossbow ------- Wins: 53.2% Power: 1099 Overall: 1001
45*Mercenary Captain -------- Wins: 55.8% Power: 1188 Overall: 988
10*Eternal Knight ----------- Wins: 31.0% Power: 536 Overall: 1006
163*Crystal Amazon ---------- Wins: 52.8% Power: 1086 Overall: 994
70*Garnet Amazon ------------ Wins: 53.7% Power: 1117 Overall: 996
83*Jade Amazon -------------- Wins: 54.0% Power: 1128 Overall: 991
70*Onyx Amazon -------------- Wins: 53.2% Power: 1102 Overall: 993
118*Flagellant -------------- Wins: 49.5% Power: 985 Overall: 911
117*Flagellant Blessed ------ Wins: 50.2% Power: 1005 Overall: 916
92*Flagellant Fire10 -------- Wins: 49.9% Power: 997 Overall: 891
110*Flagellant Earth10 ------ Wins: 52.5% Power: 1079 Overall: 934
108*Flagellant Air10 -------- Wins: 42.9% Power: 805 Overall: 961
110*Flagellant Nature10 ----- Wins: 51.7% Power: 1053 Overall: 954
73*Flagellant Astral10 ------ Wins: 38.1% Power: 688 Overall: 981
99*Flagellant Water10 ------- Wins: 55.0% Power: 1160 Overall: 1005
105*Flagellant Blood8 ------- Wins: 49.9% Power: 997 Overall: 917
75*Flagellant Fire9 Water9 -- Wins: 56.8% Power: 1226 Overall: 1011
60*Flagellant Fire9 Astral9 - Wins: 40.9% Power: 755 Overall: 969
53*Flagellant Astral9 Water~ Wins: 42.4% Power: 792 Overall: 1066
91*Flagellant Rainbow4 ------ Wins: 53.5% Power: 1111 Overall: 978
261*Slinger ----------------- Wins: 47.6% Power: 930 Overall: 1009
183*Tribal Archer ----------- Wins: 50.7% Power: 1022 Overall: 998
224*Villain ----------------- Wins: 52.1% Power: 1064 Overall: 979
180*Woodsman ---------------- Wins: 53.3% Power: 1104 Overall: 1002
180*Woodsman Blowpipe ------- Wins: 52.8% Power: 1088 Overall: 1016
248*Light Archer ------------ Wins: 49.9% Power: 996 Overall: 993
179*Archer ------------------ Wins: 53.4% Power: 1106 Overall: 981
129*Heavy Archer ------------ Wins: 47.1% Power: 917 Overall: 987
235*Light Crossbowman ------- Wins: 48.5% Power: 955 Overall: 989
185*Medium Crossbowman ------ Wins: 50.8% Power: 1023 Overall: 989
131*Heavy Crossbowman ------- Wins: 46.7% Power: 905 Overall: 987
129*Longbowman -------------- Wins: 56.4% Power: 1212 Overall: 961
146*Scout ------------------- Wins: 54.9% Power: 1157 Overall: 970
123*Spy --------------------- Wins: 58.9% Power: 1304 Overall: 1014
72*Commander Scale ---------- Wins: 56.3% Power: 1205 Overall: 996
62*Commander Chain ---------- Wins: 56.7% Power: 1220 Overall: 1036
53*Commander Plate ---------- Wins: 54.2% Power: 1132 Overall: 1005
53*Barbarian Chief ---------- Wins: 54.9% Power: 1157 Overall: 1022
41*Barbarian Lord ----------- Wins: 53.8% Power: 1119 Overall: 1044
113*Triton Lord ------------- Wins: 58.7% Power: 1299 Overall: 1002
278*Bloodhenge Druid -------- Wins: 37.0% Power: 665 Overall: 973
67*Ichtyid Lord ------------- Wins: 58.4% Power: 1285 Overall: 1001
134*Ghoul ------------------- Wins: 35.3% Power: 627 Overall: 999
139*Longdead Spear 1 -------- Wins: 33.9% Power: 597 Overall: 987
93*Longdead Spear 2 --------- Wins: 36.9% Power: 662 Overall: 1018
114*Longdead Sword 1 -------- Wins: 36.9% Power: 661 Overall: 1020
110*Longdead Sword 2 -------- Wins: 37.7% Power: 680 Overall: 1026
81*Longdead Sword 3 --------- Wins: 38.5% Power: 698 Overall: 1022
75*Longdead Sword 4 --------- Wins: 36.7% Power: 656 Overall: 996
38*Longdead Giant ----------- Wins: 39.2% Power: 714 Overall: 1074
235*Longdead Archer --------- Wins: 26.6% Power: 447 Overall: 925
114*Damned Buccaneer -------- Wins: 36.0% Power: 641 Overall: 1010
44*Mound King --------------- Wins: 38.4% Power: 696 Overall: 1026
347*Soulless ---------------- Wins: 26.7% Power: 450 Overall: 999
165*Soulless Warrior -------- Wins: 32.0% Power: 556 Overall: 1001
102*Heavy Soulless Warrior -- Wins: 31.7% Power: 549 Overall: 990
313*Soulless of Caelum ------ Wins: 27.2% Power: 459 Overall: 982
244*Soulless of C'tis ------- Wins: 29.1% Power: 496 Overall: 998
260*Soulless of Atlantis ---- Wins: 29.3% Power: 501 Overall: 1009
177*Corpse Construct -------- Wins: 31.2% Power: 539 Overall: 1002
116*Manikin ----------------- Wins: 32.3% Power: 562 Overall: 1022
91*Satyr Manikin ------------ Wins: 33.2% Power: 581 Overall: 1016
164*Harpy Manikin ----------- Wins: 40.5% Power: 747 Overall: 973
83*Carrion Horse ------------ Wins: 30.9% Power: 534 Overall: 1003
114*Carrion Wolf ------------ Wins: 33.1% Power: 578 Overall: 1013
119*Carrion Boar ------------ Wins: 32.7% Power: 571 Overall: 1010
68*Imp ---------------------- Wins: 35.8% Power: 637 Overall: 1005
52*Bone Fiend --------------- Wins: 37.4% Power: 674 Overall: 1019
36*False Horror ------------- Wins: 36.6% Power: 656 Overall: 1027
5*Lesser Horror ------------- Wins: 22.3% Power: 367 Overall: 951
142*Vine Man ---------------- Wins: 27.8% Power: 470 Overall: 975
19*Spring Hawk -------------- Wins: 30.6% Power: 527 Overall: 1035
62*Winter Wolf -------------- Wins: 38.8% Power: 705 Overall: 1029
76*AB Humanbred Spear ------- Wins: 57.2% Power: 1240 Overall: 1029
81*AB Humanbred Axe --------- Wins: 55.5% Power: 1180 Overall: 1007
54*AB Heavy Humanbred Axe --- Wins: 48.5% Power: 957 Overall: 1003
43*AB Heavy Humanbred Morni~ Wins: 51.1% Power: 1033 Overall: 1009
55*AB Heavy Humanbred Battl~ Wins: 52.5% Power: 1077 Overall: 986
43*AB Heavy Humanbred Flail - Wins: 50.6% Power: 1019 Overall: 1009
44*AB Inf Battleaxe --------- Wins: 52.3% Power: 1070 Overall: 1039
34*AB Inf Flail ------------- Wins: 47.1% Power: 917 Overall: 957
42*AB Inf Axe --------------- Wins: 50.3% Power: 1008 Overall: 1024
33*AB Inf Morningstar ------- Wins: 50.1% Power: 1003 Overall: 1035
57*AB Commander ------------- Wins: 53.3% Power: 1105 Overall: 1010
111*AR Peltast -------------- Wins: 57.7% Power: 1260 Overall: 1007
99*AR Cardaces -------------- Wins: 58.1% Power: 1276 Overall: 1013
46*AR Hoplite --------------- Wins: 53.4% Power: 1106 Overall: 1031
48*AR Hypaspist ------------- Wins: 57.1% Power: 1234 Overall: 1020
45*AR Heart Companion ------- Wins: 54.5% Power: 1144 Overall: 1050
124*AR Scout ---------------- Wins: 58.0% Power: 1271 Overall: 1011
33*AR Hoplite Commander ----- Wins: 54.7% Power: 1152 Overall: 1059
141*AT Spearman 1 ----------- Wins: 58.1% Power: 1275 Overall: 993
113*AT Spearman 2 ----------- Wins: 60.1% Power: 1354 Overall: 1010
87*AT Reef Warrior ---------- Wins: 57.4% Power: 1247 Overall: 1017
53*AT Coral Guard ----------- Wins: 51.5% Power: 1046 Overall: 994
71*AT Shambler -------------- Wins: 56.0% Power: 1196 Overall: 1001
167*AT Scout ---------------- Wins: 55.1% Power: 1164 Overall: 984
74*AT Shambler Chief -------- Wins: 56.7% Power: 1223 Overall: 1008
140*CA Spire Horn 1 --------- Wins: 52.5% Power: 1077 Overall: 979
107*CA Spire Horn 2 --------- Wins: 52.9% Power: 1092 Overall: 1014
214*CA Archer --------------- Wins: 43.9% Power: 829 Overall: 1003
199*CA Blizzard Warrior ----- Wins: 42.1% Power: 784 Overall: 1092
109*CA Light Inf ------------ Wins: 50.9% Power: 1027 Overall: 985
87*CA Inf ------------------- Wins: 47.9% Power: 938 Overall: 993
60*CA Storm Guard ----------- Wins: 48.2% Power: 949 Overall: 1015
48*CA Iceclad --------------- Wins: 45.3% Power: 868 Overall: 1001
36*CA Temple Guard ---------- Wins: 48.5% Power: 955 Overall: 995
96*CA Wingless -------------- Wins: 52.8% Power: 1088 Overall: 998
87*CA Scout ----------------- Wins: 48.3% Power: 950 Overall: 993
34*CA Storm General --------- Wins: 43.6% Power: 823 Overall: 943
172*CT Militia -------------- Wins: 51.5% Power: 1047 Overall: 989
98*CT Light Inf ------------- Wins: 55.2% Power: 1168 Overall: 1002
68*CT City Guard ------------ Wins: 52.6% Power: 1081 Overall: 985
60*CT Heavy Inf ------------- Wins: 51.6% Power: 1049 Overall: 992
73*CT Falchioneer ----------- Wins: 54.1% Power: 1130 Overall: 994
90*CT Slave Warrior --------- Wins: 56.5% Power: 1213 Overall: 964
70*CT Elite Warrior --------- Wins: 59.5% Power: 1328 Overall: 1018
107*CT Runner --------------- Wins: 54.2% Power: 1135 Overall: 980
44*CT Swamp Guard ----------- Wins: 51.2% Power: 1038 Overall: 976
55*CT Serpent Dancer -------- Wins: 57.4% Power: 1247 Overall: 1007
80*CT Sacred Serpent -------- Wins: 54.8% Power: 1156 Overall: 1000
83*ER Longdead Legionnaire -- Wins: 36.9% Power: 661 Overall: 1005
89*ER Longdead Velite ------- Wins: 35.9% Power: 639 Overall: 1002
4*ER Wailing Lady ----------- Wins: 40.5% Power: 745 Overall: 856
123*JO Vaetti --------------- Wins: 54.0% Power: 1127 Overall: 1010
40*JO Militia --------------- Wins: 40.6% Power: 748 Overall: 997
206*MAC Militia ------------- Wins: 50.5% Power: 1016 Overall: 992
264*MAC Archer -------------- Wins: 50.1% Power: 1003 Overall: 985
127*MAC Warrior ------------- Wins: 56.9% Power: 1229 Overall: 1010
45*MAC Hoplite -------------- Wins: 55.0% Power: 1160 Overall: 1021
32*MAC Spider Warrior ------- Wins: 53.9% Power: 1123 Overall: 1120
106*MAC Chief --------------- Wins: 56.4% Power: 1210 Overall: 969
92*Man Spearman ------------- Wins: 56.7% Power: 1223 Overall: 991
94*Man Longspear ------------ Wins: 56.9% Power: 1229 Overall: 1039
90*Man Axeman --------------- Wins: 52.9% Power: 1091 Overall: 1006
128*Man Longbowman ---------- Wins: 57.7% Power: 1261 Overall: 982
52*Man Tower Guard ---------- Wins: 55.0% Power: 1160 Overall: 991
30*Man Warden of Avalon ----- Wins: 53.7% Power: 1117 Overall: 1101
117*Man Forester ------------ Wins: 53.2% Power: 1100 Overall: 962
47*Man Castellan ------------ Wins: 55.2% Power: 1166 Overall: 1015
390*Man Monk ---------------- Wins: 34.3% Power: 605 Overall: 1001
144*MAR Crossbowman --------- Wins: 55.7% Power: 1186 Overall: 981
59*MAR Swordsman ------------ Wins: 56.7% Power: 1223 Overall: 981
76*MAR Halberdier ----------- Wins: 57.4% Power: 1248 Overall: 1016
77*MAR Pikeneer ------------- Wins: 55.7% Power: 1185 Overall: 1003
49*MAR Man at Arms ---------- Wins: 55.7% Power: 1185 Overall: 1025
228*MAR Friar --------------- Wins: 40.7% Power: 750 Overall: 999
251*MI Slave ---------------- Wins: 47.2% Power: 918 Overall: 980
158*MI Warrior 1 ------------ Wins: 54.0% Power: 1127 Overall: 990
107*MI Warrior 2 ------------ Wins: 55.9% Power: 1193 Overall: 1003
99*MI Warrior 3 ------------- Wins: 54.2% Power: 1132 Overall: 979
94*MI Warrior 4 ------------- Wins: 48.8% Power: 963 Overall: 987
80*MI Feathered Warrior ----- Wins: 52.6% Power: 1081 Overall: 1045
106*MI Eagle Warrior -------- Wins: 53.6% Power: 1114 Overall: 942
90*MI Jaguar Warrior -------- Wins: 57.2% Power: 1239 Overall: 987
69*MI Sun Warrior ----------- Wins: 54.2% Power: 1132 Overall: 1027
159*MI Scout ---------------- Wins: 55.1% Power: 1166 Overall: 1009
60*MI Tribal King ----------- Wins: 59.8% Power: 1342 Overall: 1026
217*Pan Harpy --------------- Wins: 41.4% Power: 768 Overall: 911
117*Pan Satyr 1 ------------- Wins: 54.6% Power: 1147 Overall: 990
117*Pan Satyr 2 ------------- Wins: 54.4% Power: 1141 Overall: 984
99*Pan Satyr 3 -------------- Wins: 56.5% Power: 1214 Overall: 1001
53*Pan Satyr Hoplite -------- Wins: 57.8% Power: 1264 Overall: 1016
75*Pan Satyr Reveler -------- Wins: 57.3% Power: 1244 Overall: 1000
51*Pan Centaur -------------- Wins: 56.7% Power: 1220 Overall: 984
26*Pan Centaur Warrior ------ Wins: 58.5% Power: 1288 Overall: 1063
23*Pan Centaur Cataphract --- Wins: 59.8% Power: 1340 Overall: 1110
90*PY Velite ---------------- Wins: 55.8% Power: 1189 Overall: 975
65*PY Legionnaire ----------- Wins: 52.0% Power: 1062 Overall: 986
58*PY Hastatus -------------- Wins: 51.2% Power: 1037 Overall: 980
47*PY Principe -------------- Wins: 51.1% Power: 1032 Overall: 948
51*PY Triarius -------------- Wins: 49.6% Power: 988 Overall: 1004
27*PY Emerald Guard --------- Wins: 52.8% Power: 1089 Overall: 959
61*PY Gladiator Trident ----- Wins: 58.5% Power: 1289 Overall: 1032
56*PY Gladiator Flail ------- Wins: 56.4% Power: 1211 Overall: 1017
88*PY Battle Vestal --------- Wins: 56.7% Power: 1222 Overall: 988
69*Hydra Hatchling ---------- Wins: 52.3% Power: 1070 Overall: 987
195*RY Lobo Guard ----------- Wins: 42.2% Power: 788 Overall: 986
116*RY Slave Trooper -------- Wins: 56.8% Power: 1226 Overall: 996
80*RY Slave Guardian -------- Wins: 57.2% Power: 1240 Overall: 973
47*RY Meteorite Guard ------- Wins: 56.7% Power: 1222 Overall: 1031
89*RY Shambler Thrall ------- Wins: 46.4% Power: 896 Overall: 986
167*RY Scout ---------------- Wins: 54.7% Power: 1152 Overall: 965
172*TC Archer --------------- Wins: 53.5% Power: 1109 Overall: 992
106*TC Footman Glaive ------- Wins: 56.4% Power: 1209 Overall: 998
109*TC Footman Pike --------- Wins: 56.8% Power: 1227 Overall: 1013
85*TC Footman Spear --------- Wins: 56.9% Power: 1227 Overall: 1025
103*TC Imperial Archer ------ Wins: 52.5% Power: 1076 Overall: 1007
103*TC Imperial Crossbowman - Wins: 51.5% Power: 1045 Overall: 989
79*TC Imperial Glaive ------- Wins: 56.4% Power: 1209 Overall: 992
69*TC Imperial Spear -------- Wins: 52.9% Power: 1090 Overall: 1025
52*TC Imperial Guard -------- Wins: 54.7% Power: 1150 Overall: 964
283*TC Eunuch --------------- Wins: 46.7% Power: 905 Overall: 953
65*TC Lu Tung Pin ----------- Wins: 43.1% Power: 809 Overall: 985
28*Ulm Guardian ------------- Wins: 53.1% Power: 1098 Overall: 1110
58*Ulm Inf Battleaxe 1 ------ Wins: 53.9% Power: 1124 Overall: 1005
42*Ulm Inf Battleaxe 2 ------ Wins: 49.2% Power: 976 Overall: 999
45*Ulm Inf Flail 1 ---------- Wins: 51.4% Power: 1043 Overall: 1030
29*Ulm Inf Flail 2 ---------- Wins: 46.3% Power: 894 Overall: 1023
52*Ulm Inf Hammer 1 --------- Wins: 50.1% Power: 1004 Overall: 1015
51*Ulm Inf Hammer 2 --------- Wins: 45.9% Power: 883 Overall: 1012
60*Ulm Inf Maul 1 ----------- Wins: 53.7% Power: 1116 Overall: 1015
43*Ulm Inf Maul 2 ----------- Wins: 50.4% Power: 1013 Overall: 1043
45*Ulm Inf Morningstar 1 ---- Wins: 49.3% Power: 979 Overall: 987
41*Ulm Inf Morningstar 2 ---- Wins: 44.0% Power: 833 Overall: 1002
57*Ulm Pikeneer 1 ----------- Wins: 53.6% Power: 1114 Overall: 1003
41*Ulm Pikeneer 2 ----------- Wins: 52.8% Power: 1088 Overall: 1012
41*Ulm Commander Hammer 1 --- Wins: 52.4% Power: 1076 Overall: 1020
41*Ulm Commander Hammer 2 --- Wins: 49.3% Power: 980 Overall: 1029
37*Ulm Commander Morningsta~ Wins: 52.5% Power: 1078 Overall: 1083
34*Ulm Commander Morningsta~ Wins: 44.5% Power: 847 Overall: 968
88*Ulm Crossbowman ---------- Wins: 51.8% Power: 1055 Overall: 989
157*Ulm Sapper -------------- Wins: 51.6% Power: 1049 Overall: 967
97*VA Huskarl Axe ----------- Wins: 53.5% Power: 1109 Overall: 975
91*VA Huskarl Spear --------- Wins: 56.3% Power: 1207 Overall: 1011
61*VA Hirdman Spear --------- Wins: 54.6% Power: 1149 Overall: 1021
51*VA Hirdman Sword --------- Wins: 54.5% Power: 1143 Overall: 993
75*VA Skin Shifter ---------- Wins: 56.7% Power: 1223 Overall: 1020
31*VA Einhere --------------- Wins: 54.2% Power: 1134 Overall: 1004
41*Werewolf ----------------- Wins: 54.6% Power: 1147 Overall: 960
146*VA Scout ---------------- Wins: 55.4% Power: 1176 Overall: 985
45*VA Herse ----------------- Wins: 55.6% Power: 1183 Overall: 1018

Average --------------------- Wins: 49.9% Power: 1022 Overall: 998
Median ---------------------- Wins: 52.9% Power: 1092 Overall: 1000
Overall RMS: 999
Overall RMH: 1000</pre><hr />

RMS: Root mean square.
RMH: (4th)Root mean hypercube.

The closer these are to 1000, the more similar the groups' powers are.

Re: Melee Power Rankings Chart
 

Another very interesting Chart Saber Cherry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

Especially the False Horror and Skeleton Ranks are interesting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

Could you add vans normal and with f9/10 bless ?
And Mictlan Sun Warriors and Jaguar Warriors with f9/10 bless ?

Jaguar Warriors and Vans can be massproduced so it would be very interesting how well they do vs. the other enemies .
And finally you could maybe also add f9/10 blessed centaur warriors and marignon knights of the chalice .

I consider all those as ultraelite-troops and it would be interesting how many are needed to beat e.g. 200 militia http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .
Finally you could maybe also add a few elite summons , especially Mech Men , devils , FoDs , Serpent Fiends , Demon Knights and Dark Vines http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

My guess would be that 10-15 Devils or FoDs are enough to wipe out like 200 Militia or 70 Principes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .
For comparision purposes this info would be excellent for me personally .

Re: Melee Power Rankings Chart
 

Since the fight was against militia it seems that would break the militia quickly did well. That why units with fear auras did exceptionally well ( lesser horrors, wailing ladies ). The units with many low penetration attacks did well ( hello imps! ).

Re: Melee Power Rankings Chart
 

Boron: DL the App and test it yourself. I personally have found the app to be VERY useful, thanks Saber Cherry!

As for devils vs 200 militia: The critical mass is somewhere in mid 20's. While 23 Devils are the first group to win over 50% of their battles, 26 already wins over 90% and 28 wins 99,9%. After you go past 30, the avg Deaths per battle start to quickly decline and not even extreme odds help the militia anymore as even if you run huge amounts of battles, the win rate for devils is flat 100%.

The key concept of cource is that the devils are surrounded. Their primary line of defence is the strong Def and high hit points, having 9 militaman poking a devil with sharp sticks at the same time is of cource bad. Once you have enough devils that they form a coherent enough line (in real game situations storm actually helps here), they start to win easily even if you up the number of militia. For the same reason, 70 principes perform considerably worse against devils, losing 99.9% of the time against just 20 devils...

All in all devils still seem a bargain for their price http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Melee Power Rankings Chart
 

Umm... no. The fight was against everything in the list, With amounts that yelded about the same results as 200 militia.