Re: VQ Counters - NO Debates
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nope. In this scenario, the VQ winds up dead, even though she died in friendly dominion, loses magic paths, requires priests to call her back.

(This happened to me in AllTheNations on Mosehansen, at which point it was all downhill.) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Interesting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif This could be the stake in the heart we are looking for. Kill the queen and jack the capital. Well only one way to verify....Be back in little while....

Re: VQ Counters - NO Debates
 

[quote]Originally posted by Pirateiam:

Quote:

I have tested it extensively - never has lost to a VQ 1v1 - she gets nailed before she buffs. I have let her buff and it is 60% kill success rate. With VQ with misc army things change but I know I would send more the one on a strike anyways? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif 2 to trample chaff 2 to hit the queen works quit nicely. What seems interesting is that there are other successful units that work so it does not exclude nations.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just curious, how does it work out if she has cheapo equipment ? Probably use stuff that is cheap but up to the same level as golems.

- Kel

[ May 06, 2004, 04:48: Message edited by: Kel ]

Re: VQ Counters - NO Debates
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nope. In this scenario, the VQ winds up dead, even though she died in friendly dominion, loses magic paths, requires priests to call her back.

(This happened to me in AllTheNations on Mosehansen, at which point it was all downhill.) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Interesting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif This could be the stake in the heart we are looking for. Kill the queen and jack the capital. Well only one way to verify....Be back in little while.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sadly this does not seem to be correct (pulls hair out) I have tested it 3 times and the VQ just materialized inside capital...no death...back to the drawing board.

Re: VQ Counters - NO Debates
 

[quote]Originally posted by Kel:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Pirateiam:

Quote:

I have tested it extensively - never has lost to a VQ 1v1 - she gets nailed before she buffs. I have let her buff and it is 60% kill success rate. With VQ with misc army things change but I know I would send more the one on a strike anyways? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif 2 to trample chaff 2 to hit the queen works quit nicely. What seems interesting is that there are other successful units that work so it does not exclude nations.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just curious, how does it work out if she has cheapo equipment ? Probably use stuff that is cheap but up to the same level as golems.

- Kel </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The success rate goes down 1v1 to about 6 successes out of 10 but
1.) I would never use only one Golem anyways http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

2.) The key is getting to her before she buffs and using lifeless (Golems) so the dang Life drain does not turn her into a 100+ HP Buffed VQ

Re: VQ Counters - NO Debates
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nope. In this scenario, the VQ winds up dead, even though she died in friendly dominion, loses magic paths, requires priests to call her back.

(This happened to me in AllTheNations on Mosehansen, at which point it was all downhill.) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Interesting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif This could be the stake in the heart we are looking for. Kill the queen and jack the capital. Well only one way to verify....Be back in little while.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sadly this does not seem to be correct (pulls hair out) I have tested it 3 times and the VQ just materialized inside capital...no death...back to the drawing board. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Too bad. It would be indeed a good counterstrategy, all you need to do it to overcome 25 (or whatever) defense in the capital for 1 turn with few summoning spells.

Re: VQ Counters - NO Debates
 

Golems are VQ worse nightmare. They can be the end of her in almost any mid game if used properly. Just buff them to level 3 astral (use items or/and empowerment) and teleport them at VQ at right moment. You can do it from anywhere so if VQ player gets bold and starts attacking outside of his dominion - nail him. You can attack her almost anywhere and before she moves so VQ will never be safe anymore. Also, all her buffs are really expensive to get since they are in so many paths so it usually takes only once to kill her outside of her dominion to get rid of most of them.

Golems should be properly equipped of course (boots of flying, magical weapon, etc.).

Re: VQ Counters - NO Debates
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nope. In this scenario, the VQ winds up dead, even though she died in friendly dominion, loses magic paths, requires priests to call her back.

(This happened to me in AllTheNations on Mosehansen, at which point it was all downhill.) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Was this in the original All the Nations game? I was playing Machaka, so it was probably me who first defeated your Vampire Queen.

In that game at least the VQ came back inside the capital fort right away. As I was storming the fort, I fought her twice. The second time was much easier as she had taken a hit from a Black bow of Botulf and was feebleminded.

My experience is a bit limited, but I will tell what did work in that battle. First, I thought Dust to Dust would be great against a VQ, but seems it is not. My witch doctors made several hits, but no damage. Either they didn't really hit (it's hard to see) or the damage is not magical so etherealness negates it.

As already said, black bow made the second fight easier - it gives no MR-roll. But what really was useful was the web spit of spider knights. A hit from the web lowers her defence to 4 and immobilizes her. And then just attacking with normal troops was quite enough. I guess a spider lord with the web spit and a black bow or something similar would be really nice against a VQ..

Re: VQ Counters - NO Debates
 

It would seem that others are correct regarding how to best use Angelic Host vs. a VQ.

Summon-drop of several hosts would only work well on a lone VQ being used offensively... which is perhaps not so difficult to deal with.

If the VQ is being used more defensively, at the lead of a strong army... an army you can match, with the exception of the VQ... then it would be semmingly best to bring a couple of hosts scripted to "attack fliers" to negate the VQ effect almost immediately... leaving your armies to fight more on even ground.

However, I imagine the VQ would bring a stable of fliers of it's own to mitigate this effect somewhat...

Re: VQ Counters - NO Debates
 

VQ does seem to still be an advantage in taking indepts early in the game. Other gods can do that also so its not that you get an unfair lead. But you worry about the damage it takes while the VQ isnt such a big worry in that area.

Re: VQ Counters - NO Debates
 

Wouldn't mandrogoras be a good counter. They are undead, their sleep vines ignore armor and etherealness, six attacks pro mandrogora, 4 hits would be enough to put the vq to sleep, less if she was already fatigued.

Black forest Ulm gets that Nightzehrer hero, who is a better Version of the vampire queen. Only not stealthy, but he can get an heroic ability. Make him your profet for better effect.

Pretty new at dominions, so might be wrong.