Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

You're also paying to support developers and a publisher who don't simply release a couple of perfunctory patches before releasing a somewhat-debugged and slightly-expanded version as a $$$ sequel or expansion just months later... followed by a $$$ 'Gold Edition'... and who actually take into account user feedback.

If you look at EU, for instance, what was the length of the gap between EU and EU II? And did the publisher and developer show any inclination whatsoever to deal with major issues such as the AI's tendency to fixate on particular provinces, its blatant cheating with respect to (complete immunity to) fleet attrition, or so forth?

If you take developer responsiveness into account, you'll often find better value with, say, Illwinter, Malfador Machinations, Battlefront, HPS Simulations...

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

I think the previous posters in this thread explained it pretty well, but I'll sum up why it's okay for dominions 3 to be $55.

First of all, it's the niche market that dominions caters to. D3 will only sell a few thousand copies to a select few hardcore TBS and fantasy/myth fans... there's no way illwinter/shrapnel can make any kind of profit (and therefore continue to make games) if they sell it at less then $55.

Secondly, the 300 page spiral bound printed manual costs ALOT to produce. The manual alone adds at least $10 to the price and is well worth it.

Thirdly, let's look at what the game features shall we:

Over 1500 different units...all with unique abilities and strategies for using them, 600+ spells.. and not just a bunch of spells that are just the same spell with varying power, but unique spells with unique effects and unique descriptions.... FIFTY unique nations to play as with wildly differing strategies... add to that all the choices you have in a single turn, multiplayer support, modability, improved AI (which is a feat for this level of detail), and oh yeah, a 300 page manual...

Now tell me this game isn't worth $55 to a fan of this type of game...

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

A couple things:

1) I agreee with Morkilus the wise, sitcky this!

2) The OPer is not trolling. Let's not start a witch-hunt here. The person has every right to not only speak his mind politely, but also pose a difficult question.

3) "More for less" has been adequately explained. He means more as in the price compared to Dom 2, and less meaning lower production values than larger development schemes.

@Talley
Everything you have brought up has already been addressed eloquently by people with very piquant points. You are priced out, and that's all there is to it. You will overcome your perceived dillema with the game's price or you won't.

**Tries to use hypnosis -- "You will get over your dillema..."**

Shrapnel's current goal is to run a business. Maybe the business owner(s) possess the utlimate goal of helping good games reach people, or maybe not. Trying to find their proper place in the market is probably a good way to achieve a goal like that though, even if many are priced out. Don't be convinced by convention that they are making a bad decision here, when it could very well be the best one to reach their goals. Then again, maybe not. Maybe they are shooting themselves in the foot. We'll probably know for sure in five years.

=$=

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Digitalize everything =). Save the production cost, save the manual cost. Lower the price, easier accessibility, HURRAH FOR ALL!! Except for the people who have to do the extra work of the digilitalizing =).

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

One problem with digital-everything: it becomes trivial to put an essentially identical distribution onto, say, P2P systems. For a game that offers a decent single-player mode and does not involve heavy copy protection with online activation or so forth, this is risky. While a physical manual can be scanned (although one can make this harder, through the use of extremely ugly color schemes -- SimCity copyright sheet, anyone? -- 300 pages of that would be insane), at the least it's something that differentiates the licensed from the non.

One of the more common arguments you'll hear about P2P music is that if the studios don't want people to simply download their music for nothing, they should offer extras -- the experience of a performance, goodies with the physical CD, et al. From a pragmatic point of view, this is not unreasonable in either music or software. A good bound manual would seem to qualify so long as the users are willing to absorb the cost.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

We can't, since the manual rather directly affects the manufacturing costs of the game.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Well, let's see...

If I require 4 strategy games with high production values at average market price to keep me entertained for 6 months, but only one strategy game with decent production values at 1.25 times average market price to entertain me for a year...

I've always regarded Shrapnel as the game industry equivalent of one of those rare import furniture/home decor stores. The stuff is kinda expensive, but you can't get it anywhere else, and it's damn sure cooler than anything you could ever buy from Sears or Target.

Good strategy and war titles are a rarity these days, after all, so I feel the little bit of extra money spent is well worth the product that Shrapnel delivers.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

50€ is about four months of WoW (if you don't count in the initial purchase, which at the time when I bought the game was 55€ but seems to be now 25€). I've played WoW for 18 months. Sure, graphics are cuter in WoW than in DOM, but graphics has never been the reason for me to play games.

I presume I will be playing DOM3 (just as I did/do play DOM2, or EU2 or CK) for years. Most likely not as horribly much as I played WoW, but neither is the price that much compared. When I evaluate "Bang for Bucks" I would dare to say DOM3 has a much higher BfB factor http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Yup only Eu2 comes somewhat close to Dom2 for me.
And Dom3 adds lots of new nice stuff.
Dom3 is simply the best turn based strategy game i know, and turn based strategy games are my favourite genre http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

And the dominions community is fantastic too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.
I have started recently playing Eu2 in MP, 2 of the 3 games i participated ended because the players started to argue and the 3rd game is currently in this phase too and it is uncertain whether we can continue it.
I played at least 20 dom2 longterm mp games which take as much or more time as an eu2 mp game, almost all of these games were finished and normally the players all behaved very fair and mature.
In my eu2 MP games though whining and *****ing is too common for my taste http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif.

If you love turn based strategy games then consider that you will play Dom3 probably longer then the time you played your 3 (or more) favourite other turn based strategy games.
If you bought those other turn based strategy games on release they costed you at least 3x40$. Compare that to 55$ for Dom3.

Re: Are we paying more for less?
 

Exactly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

When i still played Dom2 blitzes i always thought if my companions already had Dom3 this would be even more fun.
Fortunately this is now over almost and in a week i hope everybody has their copy of Dom3 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif