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Re: Crossbows vs. Longbows
Something I learned while checking this topic : the long bow should be considered as a cousin of the composite bow.
True, it's made of only one piece of wood... But the piece of wood that was taken was cut among different layer of the tree, running through the core to the exterior skin (yew ; other trees were less efficient), acting a bit like composite bows. Without the problem of the rain going against the glue ! It seems it took one day to build one. Compare that to composite bow or crossbow ! The rope accounting for half the price (sometimes in silk) In a way the yew long bow was a bit like a giant, rainproof, composite bow. |
Re: Crossbows vs. Longbows
Originaly posted by Sombre :
>You have no chance that any of that will be implemented. >A mod could easily be made to make knights berserk (though I >wouldn't use it) and I guess insanity or shattered soul could >be given to various military commanders (which no-one uses >anyway) but that would be an exercise in micro more than >anything else. I have to learn to quote :) Just curious why you wouldn't want knights to be made berserk ? Suits the medieval mentality, no ? In a way, Knights are irregular. Heavy Cavalry should behave as trained army corp. But knights are more elite but untrained to fight in groups or obey orders ? I would like to have a real general unit in the game. Maybe add bonus when the pretender or prophet leads the army (so that you don't have a general in every stack) ? |
Re: Crossbows vs. Longbows
Yeah, except berserk works as much more of an advantage in the game. Berserk knights won't retreat even when the rest of the army does. And considering knights are tough already, could win fights even after the rest of the army has routed.
To simulate what you're suggesting, you'd really want an effect that made knights ignore the scripts they're assigned. Charging at once instead of holding, not attacking the rear, etc. An interesting idea, especially if it was only a chance, but much harder to implement. It would require entirely new code. |
Re: Crossbows vs. Longbows
Bah! Don't you get enough of that already with mage scripts? :P
Knights with the 'berserker' attribute would charge into battle if they received damage and passed their morale berserk check, even if they were supposed to Guard Commander or whatever. The extra fatigue from being berserk is kind of bad. |
Re: Crossbows vs. Longbows
Knights varied a lot in terms of discipline. Some, particularly the religious orders (e.g. Templars, Hospitallers) were generally disciplined professionals.
The idea of charging without due care and attention was an eternal problem for any army. It wasn't just some of the more hotheaded troops like knights and Scottish highlanders, but it also happened to some degree with professional armies such as that of the Byzantines. |
Re: Crossbows vs. Longbows
Berserk in dom3 terms = a morale 99 guy that doesn't autorout, can punch through awe/repel, wins battles after the automatic rout turn limit etc. It's suitable for fictional norse berserkers or whoever, but not impetuous knight.
An #impetuous tag which emulates only the 'charge and ignore all orders' part of berserk would be ok for certain units. But it's not going to happen. |
Re: Crossbows vs. Longbows
I think the fact that my knights often ignore my "Hold and attack REAR! I said REAR! The commanders! The mages!!" to charge the first line of enemy infantry. sounds pretty much similar to what you want... and it's already implemented!! :D
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Re: Crossbows vs. Longbows
I realise you're right.
I wasn't looking at this as an advantage for the knights. The idea of having 'rash' or 'hothead' troops seems fun still. It would make all the difference between, say, Hoplites, Roman legions or templars on the one side and barbarian hordes on the other side of the scale. Maybe an idea for Dom 4 ? So maybee we lack a 'discipline' characteristics in troops ? Does madness work on non commander troops ? It could work ? I remember reading of one battle between french and english (french were winning of course ;b) where rumors started on the filed that the french 'train' (treasure ?) was left unprotected. The english troops rushed there, followed by the french one and everyone started looting with no consideration of nationality... By the way, did not the berserker (bear seeker ?) in nordish tales die at the end of the fight from exhaustion. Either that or he triy to kill its comrades ? |
Re: Crossbows vs. Longbows
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Edit: I've seen the megathread on Somethingawful and have perused the forums, yes. I saw this thread and it is a litmus test of mind when judging a fantasy game. I've found that games with good range weapon parity tend to be good overall while games full of Longbow fanboyism tend to be crap. |
Re: Crossbows vs. Longbows
I'm just waiting for Bogus, a knight on a winged steed, and a pair of wizards to turn up now.
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