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Nice. Btw speaking about this, [maybe this was mentioned already but I missed it then..] are there any spells, that can slow down aging?..or any spells what can make the targeted unit younger? [example: rejuvenation]

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Pretty good example.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...45883-temp.jpg

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Oh haha, so there is a spell called rejuvenation. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif
Nice! Thanks for the info Endo. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

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The one time I don't double-check the post... I upload a wrong pic, and don't remember to show it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

See my above post.

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Ah thx for the screenie!
Nice little blood spell. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

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Indeed. It's 100% Ebil.

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I havn't seen any screenshots of Sauromantia or any hints of the difference between EA and MA Pangaea. Please?

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Sauromatia: archers, horse archers, poisoned arrows... all with composite bows. Further, all of this is in Early Age, where heavy armor is very rare. A tribe of Jade Amazons has joined forces with the nation in the past, and they had a great impact on the Sauromatian society. Sauromatia uses three kind of mounts: most use horses, Jade Amazons use their lizards, and cannibalistic tribe of Androphags ride Serpents Pythium will use on later times. They can also recruit Hydras. They have access to all sorcery paths and Water, but Water and Astral are very weak.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...46219-temp.jpg

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Very interesting. I have a Pythium deja vu. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

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One of Sauromatia's starting sites is Swamps of Pythia... Pythium is later founded to the same area. Serpent mounts and Battle Vestals are probably the last bits of Sauromatian culture left in Pythium. No cannibalism, no man-flaying, no standards made of human skins... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

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Ah I see. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

PS.

My next wallpaper will be the Pythium theme. Pythium fans.. prepare your desktops! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

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You know what, I'm easy.

Just show me something cool and undead. Or something big and scary. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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I'm tired. I'll try to post some Oceania tomorrow, but as for now, you'll just get the first new, updated Doom Horror. Agon is the one you lot have already met.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...46328-temp.jpg

Weapons (all are magical):
Soul Leech: AN AoE life drain, MR negates, 0 damage (+str)
Life Drain: AN life drain, 0 dmg
Consume Soul: Death, MR negates
Astral Claw: AN, 0 dmg, increases Horror Mark
Curse Luck: special AoE something, length 4 so allows for repel. I don't know what it does.

Fear has changed. Agon still has Fear (+15). It's scary.

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Ohhh boy. But do the different Doom Horrors look different from each other?

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Very cool! I'm guessing Sarmatia, just across the Black Sea from Byzantium (but almost a thousand years too early for Constantinople), provided the inspiration for both the name and the amazons. I will be playing them.

I'm noticing that while a Scale Mail Hauberk and Helmet used to be 9+1=10, a Scale Mail Cuirass and Helmet used to be 7+1=8, and Scale Mail Hauberk, Full Helmet, and Round Shield would have been 9+2+3=14 they are now 12, 11, 13 (with Iron Caps, a Half Helmet, and a Shield).

If shields aren't added to protection, what do they do? Just add to defense or is there a block mechanism?

I've read that helmets are needed to protect the head, is that just for affliction checks or is there an actual hit location system?

As long as I'm being greedy, I'd still like to see something representative of the difference between EA & MA Pangaea. I do really appreciate your attitude, I'd also appreciate your work but you claimed it was easy!

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Very good! In the whole thread, you're the first to comment that! Here, these are the spesifics of
1) Sauromatian Cataphract's protection
2) defense and
3) Shield descriptions.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...46339-temp.jpg

Shield in short:
Shield has a parry value. If your shield's parry value made the difference between a hit and a miss, your protection is increased by the shield's protection. Even a Buckler on a def ~10 units makes a huge difference. Bandar Warriors armed with maces and bucklers are much better in melee than Bandar Archers with maces and (long? composite?) bows.


I mentioned EA Pan's spesific paths in a different thread, but I quess I could post few more pics as well. The main difference is that EA Panii have E1N4B1, a 100%EB random and a 10%ENB random. That s, they always have either E2 or B2, and sometimes one of their paths is further increased by one.

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Holy cow. I'd love to know the mechanics on what determines a head vs. a body hit. And a parry stat besides? I had no idea that they'd added that kind of complexity to the combat system.

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Besides the Great White and Great Black, I haven't seen any. It'd fit the monkey people, though. Also:


Have you heard the story about the crusading bull? It granted the remission of sins.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



On Head vs Body: size, perhaps mounted status even further, perhaps weapon length; I don't know, I'm not the manual guy.
For shields, see the edited post above.

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So instead of 3 pro and 2 def a shield is now providing just net 3 def -- unless the attacker has a Gate Cleaver, in which case the shield is just in the way? I'm happy with the concept but the practice seems to make shields, the most historically important piece of armor, less important. Unless the parry is the part applied against arrows? So my shield now has a better chance of intercepting that Gift of Heaven? I could definately like this.

Did you hear what the Hoburg Champion said to the dwarf who cast Gifts of Heaven at him? "I'm flattered."

Hey, I bet routing troops don't get to parry. Troops attacked from behind probably still do?

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Well, I sure do hope the shields parry arrows!

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Regarding the head to body ratio, it should be weighted 1:4 to make the 17 & 12 = 13. Hoever, with rounding anything from 1:3 to 1:9 works so...

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If it weren't for cursed luck I'd have no luck at all, doom, gloom, and Agon-y on me!

Sorry, I apologize, I didn't mean it, it was my evil twin.

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Trust me, shields are extremely important, lightly armoured troops without them can get decimated by archers.

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Also, as I said, even a Buckler makes a huge difference. Just try Bandar Log or Patala, and try Bandar Warriors against Bandar Archers, or the Vanara Chakram Throwers against mace-and-buckler wielding Vanara. I think the latter are Vanara Warriors, but I'm not sure.

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So let me see if I have the shields correct. Say that unit A has 10 defense (not including the shield), and 12 with the shield.

Unit B attacks unit A and has 5 attack and rolls a 6 (for 11). That might miss, except that instead it goes to a normal attack + the shield defense. So, if unit A had 8 protection, they would as if they had 10?

But, if unit B rolled an 8 they would score a 13 and bypass the shield, thereby striking at onle 8 protection?

Do shields still give protection (or is it just this defense system now)?

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Close, but per Endoperez's description above, if the parry makes the difference then the entire protection of the shield is added. So 15 protection, not just 2.

So shields are less useful in melee but better against missiles. Which, considering the likely importance of sacred troops who mostly don't have shields, makes combined arms more attractive.

If there's really no interesting differences between EA & MA Pangaea, then how about something revealing how Barbarian Kings now has a chance?

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Guys, there are two pretty apparent reasons why this mechanic was added when you think of the implications. #1 It means that, regardless of their defend or parry value, shields no longer provide any bonus whatsoever against Armor Penetrating attacks; in fact, most shields will be a handicap. This is a good thing. #2 It means that Armor Piercing attacks are not quite as lethal against a shield wielding opponent. I think this is also a good thing.

There are probably more implications, but so far, I really like it. I bet flails versus shields has been altered too. If I had to make a guess, I'd say that flails simply don't allow the parry bonus, thus negating the parry, too.

Just to go ahead and clarify things, I think we should use the term "shield hit(s)" for when someone's defense roll successfully lands in that parry zone. Ie. When someone parries with a shield, they take a shield hit, which is an attack that must beat Protection + Protection, Shield. Example: Using the unit above, when he takes a normal hit (to the body) he has protection 12. When he takes a shield hit, he has protection 27. For now, I'm going to assume missile weapons also have to beat this protection. In a way it makes sense, but it also sounds like missile troops will be pretty useless against shielded enemies.

@Endo
It seems like there could be other items/weapons that will add parry bonuses as well. Have you seen anything like this? Would these same weapons then also have a "Protection, Parry" or does it just use the weapon's attack bonus for this?

=$=

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Shields work nice in game. They feel different, their presence is felt (most notably when under archer fire) but they aren't overpowered.

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I hope all missile projectiles in the game were slightly increased in effectivity, or else this new shield protection functionality will only mean a nerf across the board for every projectile in the game. Well, all things will be worked out through patches, eventually.

=$=

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Against AP attacks the shield still has 15/2= 7.5 protection. That's seriously useful. It's against armor negating attacks that shields are a handicap.

Also, from v2.88: "* Flail and morningstar new mechanic (+2 att vs shields)"

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EA Pangaea recruit screen. Few new units but they're mainly just unarmoured versions of old stuff. As said above, Panii are E1N4B1, always have either E2 or B2, and have a chance of increasing any one of their paths further.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...46504-temp.jpg

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Barbarian Kings... You really make good choices! 3 new caster-types for Barbarian Kings, with strange combinations of Death and other paths, and all of them old. I won't show them, of course. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

But any way, here you have an Ancestor Vessel. Howling Bow is a Composite Bow with a Lesser Fear effect.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...46507-temp.jpg

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Looks very cool. I wonder what sort of a bless would be best for them. Perhaps fire if it aplies to missile weapons too...

Or Water.

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Fire is melee only. Water would give them more ranged attacks as well, so that could work. Fire or blood would work for increased attack and/or strength, which would affect all their attacks. Death would make them cause more afflictions, which would give them a use as slightly anti-SC, or at least anti-thug, force.

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More afflictons? so That's the mysterious "Death Weapon" effect. What does lvl 9 death bless do?

Water/Death could work.

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Death 9: some AN damage. I don't know the details, either; I'm not the manual guy. I don't remember what the icon and its description tell of the Death 9 effect, either. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

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Wait, so Death bless has been changed and it causes afflictions instead of fear?

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Yes. Morale system was redone, and Death bless was changed.
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...46537-temp.jpg

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Awesome. Light armoured troops with shields will have a chance to survive against archers now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

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Note also how Nature bless has changed ! In fact the effects have been swapped : now you get Regen at N4 and berserk at N9. Rather weird balance-wise IMHO (N4 becomes a no-brainer and N9 useless...)

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The AN damage for Death 9 is fitting, but it also make fire less unique in the game. I would rather rather seen some more, hmm, creative effect.

As for Berzerk, it's nott useless, it's just useful in certain situations. And 5% regeneration is too small to be a real no-brainer.

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Yeah I was putting it too abruptly : Berserk at N9 is not "useless", N9 it's just too big an investment for a Berserk2 effect.
As for 5% regen it's rather powerful on any thug-like sacred, such as Neifels, Agarthan Ancients, Cel Soldiers or even Demonbreds or such. This nearly make them immune to afflictions and diseases, and even 2 hp/turn is still very useful for creatures that are usually not killed in one blow : on a 10 turn battle they get +20 hp ...

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I'm not sure if +5% Regeneration is enough to save them disease and afflictions. 4 Nature can be a good investement, no doubt about that, but not everybody has troops that will benefit from it or those that benefit from it might find better options.

But perhaps Nature 4 has opened more strategies. And that is good.

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Regeneration isn't as good at preventing afflictions as it used to be. Regeneration also has the limit of not rising hp of the creature above his base hp; he won't heal until he's already hurt. Regeneration can make a tough unit who is goot at surviving on his own (e.g. a Niefel Giant) tougher to kill, but won't make a tough unit with low defense and low-to-mediocre (on Dom2 standards) protection invlunerable.

Also, Berserk is now useful in making the units and commanders unroutable. Commanders can now rout even before all units are dead, and often will.

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Endoperez,
Even with the changes you mention, I can't see how investment in N9 blessing can be justified for just Berserk2... As you said morale/rout rules have changed, and in fact normal units rather stand better than before!

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I'm not an expert on blesses. Berserk isn't as important as regeneration, but I might go for Berserk if I already wanted high Regeneration. It probably won't be as good as the best level 9 blesses, though.

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I can't remember all reasons for the switch of regen - berserk. I'll try to remember some.

Niefelheim and many other nations always had nature 9 blessing. That didn't feel right. Especially when there are new nations with big sacred summonables.

Now berserk might seem unattractive, but the increasing effect of regen might compensate so that people takes higher lvl nature at times.

It feels a bit strange that the rather magical powers of regeneration is easier to get than common battle rage. So this is more of a balance change then a thematic change and I'm not entirely fond of it. It works, but I can feel a bit annoyed at times.

I felt more concerned with thematically boring pretenders. It would not sit well with me if every pretender of Yomi took Nature 9 to make the Dai Oni regenerate. Few variations on pretender design combined with unthematic gods is not attractive. I do like unthematic gods, but not if they are always the same.

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@Kristoffer,
Sure the N9-frenzy for Niefelheim was a boring "exploit"/combo.
Problem is that now Niefelheim and Yomi will take N4-6, which is quite less costly...
And berserk was in fact a liability sometimes (for sacred mages !), not getting it at N4 will just make the choice even more obvious...
Personnally I would have kept Berserk at N4, get rid of regen at N9 and given Recuperation + some Reinvigoration instead.
I've always found strange that Reinvigoration was an Earth bless effect (plus the E9 bless is not spectacular...) : for Earth having some protection effect at E4 and "weapon of sharpness" (AP weapon) at E9 would have been cool ...

Just my 0.02

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Besides the idea of Dai Onis trampling forth led by an Earth Mother is pretty terrifying in a completely wrong way.

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Actually, PDF has a good point. Now many people will just pick Earth Mothers is with E9/N4 or N6 and save some points.

Recuperation wouldn't work for a bless effect since it does it's thing on the overland map. Reinvigoration + Regeneration at the highest level could have worked...or then we would have reinvigorated Niefel jotuns trampling around.

As for Earth, Earthpower gives reinvigoration, but I do agree that +4 protection is not much to cheer about. It's helpful but not worth 9 levels in Earth. Considering Earth doesn't have all that much going for it the bless also feels a bit "meh". It is helpful, but 9 in Earth isn't necessarily worth it.

I don't know what Earth 9 should have given. Weapons of Sharpness would have been, well, stupendously powerful.