Re: Balance Mod Update
 

Kwok, did you fix up the ship design function that checks if a new design is needed? (As per the email I sent you).

Thanks

Re: Balance Mod Update
 

Greetings.

Version 0.95 of the Balance Mod is available. It will only work with v1.13 of SE:V and note that it is save-game compatible, but you'll need to re-design some of your ships to take advantage of same changes to armor size and ship requirements.

I tried out a couple of game for 10-15 turns in both beta 1.13 and retail 1.13 with no AI problems. Let me know if you encountered any weird AI behaviour!

http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Version 0.95 (08 November 2006)
-------------------------------

1. Changed - Decreased the engines per move value for Destroyers and Light Cruisers
2. Changed - Decreased the max number of engines allowed for Destroyers and Light Cruisers
3. Changed - Reduced Organic and Crystalline Armor to 10kT
4. Changed - Reduced Stealth and Scattering Armor to 20kT
5. Changed - Carriers now only require 30% of their hull devoted to fighter bays
6. Changed - Brave and Cowardly traits now provide small Combat To Hit bonus/penalty
7. Removed - Ordnance generation from Ordnance Storage containers
8. Changed - Supply/Ordnance Storage components can be placed on Weapon Platforms
9. Added - Supply storage for Weapons Platform Computer Core
10. Changed - Re-worked main Empires weapon selection
11. Added - AI fixes/improvements from SE:V v1.08 to v1.13
12. Updated - AI Scripts
</pre><hr />

Re: Balance Mod Update
 

You can also find the AI Scripts here in the resources section:
http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

Note they will only work with SE:V v1.13 and not v1.08!

Re: Balance Mod Update
 

Thanks for the update!

I still have yet to really get 'into' SE5 yet, but your work looks excellent from what I've seen so far.

Thanks again!

Re: Balance Mod Update
 

Thank you Kwok for your excellent and huge work!

MainStrings.txt
 

I can't start this version, I get a pop-up box that says can't find stuff in main record in mainstrings.txt. Do I need a newer version of mainstrings.txt?

Edit: Problem solved -- I deleted the old BalanceMod folder, then re-installed, and now it works.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...ainstrings.jpg

Re: MainStrings.txt
 

Small bug in version 0.95: the defense modifiers of stealth and scattering armor don't stack as the description suggests.
I don't know if this is a problem of the game itself or the mod: the savegames keep the original version the game was started (in my case 0.92) in the description of the game type even after saving it under the new version. Not a big problem but might be a little confusing.

Re: MainStrings.txt
 

I've accidently assigned the same identifier to Stealth/Scattering Armor so they are not stacking when combined. Thanks for the catch!

Re: MainStrings.txt
 

The mod is stopping me from using the emp files for the stock empires, it says too many research points used.

Re: MainStrings.txt
 

You won't be able to use stock empire files for a number of reasons, including different tech costs, tech tree, and racial costs to name a few. However I will be including some 2000 pt default empires for each of the main empires in the next version.

Re: MainStrings.txt
 

The turn times since 1.13 are taking ages compared to 1.8,two or three times longer.I don't know if this is a patch problem in stock or the mod.

Re: MainStrings.txt
 

I've noticed the same thing. I believe it is because combats now doesn't stop anymore before the time runs out, which makes AIs in war take forever on their turns because of the slow combat resolution system. Definitely needs a huge fix, it's become unplayable for me when a single empire can spend up to like 5 minutes some turns when they're at war( and someone always are).

The problem is actually twofold, though. First, battles themselves are taking way too long( is AI vs AI combat actually any faster than 8x strategic combat for the player? ), and secondly the AI spend many combats each turn hunting down fleeing enemy ships; combats that can last the full 5 minutes allowed.

In my case an AI empire spent 8 combats in a single turn hunting down a single harmless, fleeing frigate with 5 of his ships. Needless to say, that turn took forever to process. And that was *one* empire and *one* ship.

Should be a #1 priority for Aaron, as I see it. Most annoying part is that the AI isn't even using any of that time for 'intelligent thinking', he's just using it for chasing after a few unimportant ships.

Re: MainStrings.txt
 

I've also noticed this right on the first turn of a saved game in the balance mod after patching to 1.13 and .95

Fleet supplies
 

I just lost a fleet to zero supplies. I had about ten frigates (six meson guns, four missile frigates), and when combat started they all had zero supplies. The one opponant frigate ruined three of the fleet, and the rest are stuck because of no supplies. My fleet didn't fire a single shot.

According to the changelog,

v1.04 fixed - Fleet were using more supply than they should.
v1.07 fixed - Fleets were regaining supply and ordnance after each turn with no Resupply Depot present.

At this point, I'm not particularly interested in wasting another four hours of my life.

Edit: Ok, it's tomorrow and I'm over it. Still kind of sucky tho.

Re: Fleet supplies
 

This Balance mod rocks. I like how organic tech actually gives me more value than just normal tech (especially in the armor and weapon section). It makes it worth while to spend racial points on getting organic access. I also like the fact that larger ships need more engines. In general I find this mod much more enjoyable than Vanilla SE5.

Re: Fleet supplies
 

Greetings.

I've posted another update to the Balance Mod:
http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

It's a small update to fix a couple of items, sort of addresses long AI turn times, and increases the AI's design flexibility a bit.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Version 0.96 (09 November 2006)
-------------------------------

1. Fixed - Scattering Armor and Stealth Armor did not add their combat to hit bonuses
2. Added - AI Defense Ships implemented with se
3. Fixed - AI was using more Point-Defense than they needed
4. Changed - Reduced maximum combat time to 180 seconds
5. Changed - Space Combat Map Radius to 1500
6. Changed - Tweak AI Colony Type selection some more
7. Updated - AI Scripts
</pre><hr />

Re: Fleet supplies
 

Thank you Captain Kwok, for all your great work on the Balance Mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Fleet supplies
 

Thanks, much needed. I suppose Aaron is aware of the issues with way too long AI combat times in turn processing?

Re: Fleet supplies
 

Thank god for this mod.

Re: Fleet supplies
 

Yes. Item #9 on the v1.14 changelog should eliminate most of the extra combats that are drawing out the AI turns.

Re: Fleet supplies
 

Yes, thanks for the continuing effort poured into the mod.

I have comments from my current game in progress: it was started with 1.08/0.94 and is now 1.13/0.95 -

1) My Weapon Platforms with L2 APBs are drawn wrongly during space combat. When enemies attack my planets, they fire once the enemy fleet is appropriately close to the planet as they should, but the green beams are not drawn as originating from the planet, instead they emerge downwards from out in space somewhere and hit the ships! Obviously only a cosmetic issue, and could well be a vanilla issue rather than for the Balance Mod.

2) I still have troubles with the lack of expansion of the AI. I'm playing this game with Hard AI / no bonus. About 50 turns in, I have APBs, High Energy Weapons 3 and counting, and Extraction level 3 in all resources for robo-mining, and light carriers. I've seen level 2 DUCs, but apart from that I have seen no technological advances of any kind from the AI players - I've killed 2 minor races and am at war with the Eee. I realise that this is a previously known topic, and could also be caused by my upgrading SE5 and Balance during the progress of my game too... but that's my experience.

Still watching this mod avidly though!

Re: Fleet supplies
 

I suggest starting a fresh game, MisterBenn. There has been *significant* updates to AI research etc. in the latest versions, and they probably wont work optimally in a save game from the older versions, even though the patches are 'savegame compatible'.

I also suggest putting computer bonus up to low or medium; there's still some issues, like fog of war, that handicaps the AI far more than the player.

Kwok, it's great he's getting rid of exessive combats, but is there any chance he'll also try to optimize the AI vs AI combat code itself? It appears to be running, at best, no faster than 8x speed, probably not even half that at times.

Re: Fleet supplies
 

Faster strategic combats is probably on the to-do list with reducing combat replay file sizes.

MisterBenn: What are the scores of the AI players like? For 50-turns in on what I imagine is a low-tech cost game they should have at least 10 planets and 50-60 ships.

Re: MainStrings.txt
 

Hi
Cpt Kwok,
Can we upgrade the Balance mod version during a (solo) game with no ill effect ?

And kudos for the good work ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: MainStrings.txt
 

Great job Captain Kwok. My last save that took 6m50s to compute with 0.95 is now resolved in 30s in 0.96. I'm a bit wary of reducing the combat length to 150s though.

Re: MainStrings.txt
 

It's sort of a temporary measure until the next SE:V patch is out and the attack order gets cleared properly. When that happens I'll probably bump up the space combat radius to 2000 and see how that works with the 3 minute max combats.

---

Any Balance Mod releases with the same first digit in the tenths column (ie 0.9x) is saved-game compatible. Although if you updated from v0.94 to v0.95/v0.96, you might need to update your designs to take advantage of the extra space that was made by a few changes.

Re: MainStrings.txt
 

Nah, shouldn't be a problem. Any real combat is resolved in under a couple of minutes; it's just the 'chasing combats' that lasts for more, from my experience.

Re: MainStrings.txt
 

I thought maybe upgrading was my trouble. It's a good excuse to start a new game!

I'll try 1.13/0.96 from tonight.

Regarding the Strategic Combat changes: in that last game, I could pursue a colony ship with my frigate, and in a pursuit my ship would chase and get the first shot in right as the colony ship escaped the border. I found that it would consistently take two combat sessions running to kill one unguarded colony ship, and that is with the instant hit APB and a full set of engines. With the reduced combat time and new retreat circle, will it be possible to catch these craft at all?

Re: MainStrings.txt
 

I agree and I want (and already had) to increase the map radius size - but I dropped it a bit to reduce the AI processing times since they might enter such a scenario a half-dozen times per turn etc. Anyhow brief testing seem to work well with 2000 for the size in a frigate vs colony type scenario. In the meantime you could use fighters to chase down enemy colonizers faster. Even a early freighter-carrier can carry a small complement of fighters for such a purpose.

Re: MainStrings.txt
 

How about greatly decreasing the speed of colony ships? You'd think a colony ship would be large and slow, far more so than a warship which also has speed in mind. It would also increase the necessity of scouts in the early stages and hinder setting up colony ships many systems away in just a few turns; with how fast colonies become operational and all( i.e. 8 turns for space yard + supply facility = fully working military base).

I'd suggest a starting colony ship speed of 6 or 7, while the frigate speed could remain what it is( assuming maximum engines). Would help alot on those AI processing times to have the 'Chase the colony ship!' fights over sooner, and in one go instead of many seperate battles.

Processing times have decreased enough to make it playable again with 0.96, nice fix. Will see if there's any real disadvantages with it as I play.

Ship speed calculations
 

The ship speed calculations seem a bit off. I am creating a remote miner in a Destroyer lvl3 hull. With 4x lvl1 Ion Engines he has a speed of 7. I remove an engine, the speed drops to 5. I add a lvl1 Solar Sail that is supposed to add 1 movement point/turn, and still get a speed of 5. There is some rounding somewhere that doesn't seem to work right.

Re: Ship speed calculations
 

With the game about 40 turns old,it's still unplayable due to the bloody slow turns.Looks like I'll be playing MTW2 this weekend instead.

Re: Ship speed calculations
 

Re: Ship Speeds

It depends on the ship's engines-per-value and the values are always truncated to the whole number. Note that the LC is being shorted 1 movepoint unintentionally - I'll fix that up for v0.97, but you can do it yourself by replacing the EPM value of 3.66 with 3.5 for all LCs.

I'll see how the next few SE:V patches affect combat before making any other speed changes.

I've neglected to give the Solar Sail 5 movepoints (as the standard in the mod is 5 movepoints per engine) which is why it works only some of the time - at least that's my working theory but I can't it test it right now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Ship speed calculations
 

I've tried changing "Ability 1 Amount 1 Formula" for the solar sail from 1 to 5. I still get no speed increase when I add one. Looks like it's pretty complicated, so I'll refrain from using solar sails until the pro fixes it.

Also I am doing this on a Destroyer, but thanks for the fix for the Light Cruisers.

Re: Ship speed calculations
 

Solar sails don't work in stock right now, either.

Re: Ship speed calculations
 

Considering raising the # of research facilities for the AI? From what I can see they still don't have nearly enough research points. 7-13k points with 12-15 planets each, not alot to brag about.

Oh, and looks like we're back to the 'No intelligence points' scenario. With up to 15 planets for some, surely they should have a few thousand points.

Re: Colony Types
 

That observation is probably being caused by the AI encountering too many good resource planets in its territory as they are preferred over anything else... but the AI in general will designate ~20% of their colonies as Research and ~10% as Intel. There are instructions on certain colony types to build a mixed research-intel colony, or add intel centers on military colonies - but they really needs a breathable to be designated as such for them to get built.

Re: Colony Types
 

When we click on 'Autocomplete' in the Ship Design window, do the components that are being automatically assigned to the ship depend on the mod, or is the feature hardcoded? Because I've just tried 'auto-completing' a small satellite, the first one we get , non-researched, chose the "Satellite" ship type, and got among others a Solar Sail assigned to it. The listed speed was still 0, but hey http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

Edit: Solar sails are also getting assigned to bases.

Re: Colony Types
 

It will depend on the design type and if you selected an appropriate vehicle for that design type. Anyhow are sats not auto-completing correctly? Last time I checked a level-1 small sat should have a core, 1 weapon, an armor, supply and ordnance storage.

I haven't really restricted what extra components go on what, so you may see a few weird things from time to time.

Re: Colony Types
 

... plus a Solar Sail for a small satellite using the "Satellite" design type http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif. Same for a Defense Base. I can't add it manually though, it's not listed in the left pane.

Since no restrictions have been put in place I suppose it would be a lot of work to add them to every possible design. It's no big deal, I just thought that maybe the Solar Sails were somehow mislabelled, which may lead to other bugs, like them not adding any movement points, etc.

Re: Colony Types
 

Anyone else have problems with alliances? When the AI propose adding new members, my turn processing wont finish if I vote either yes or no. It halts at the 'processing all player turns' screen, frees all the memory used and just idles there.

Re: Colony Types
 

It's probably a bug in the alliance voting function that was added in the SE:V 1.13 patch and in the mod.

Re: Colony Types
 

Hi,

I just played an gmae with your mod and the 1.13 patch.
But the problem was that none of the AI developed at all, no ships, colonies or whatsoever.

Is this a already known and/or solved problem, or did I just missed a patch ??!!??

Re: Colony Types
 

You're probably using an old verison of the mod.

You can grab v0.96 here:
http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

Re: Colony Types
 

Thanks, guess it will work now.

BTW. I downloaded the new version (0.96) a few days ago, only forgot to install it, clever isn't it ?

Re: Colony Types
 

Don't know if it's a SEV, a 1.13 or a Balance Mod 0.96 bug, but the migration figures seem a bit odd.

I play the humans, rock/oxygen, and have a migration clause with the methane-breating Xi'Chung. I colonize a methane planet, in a new sector that is 4 warps away from the nearest Xi'Chung colony or my only other planet that has Xi'Chung immigrants.

Turn 1: colonization takes place, 25M humans come down from the colonizer (5% migration/year, 10% birthrate/year)

Turn 2: 27M humans (5% migration/year, 10% birthrate/year) + 181M Xi'Chung (5% migration/year, 12% birthrate/year)

Turn 3: 29M humans (5% migration/year, 10% birthrate/year) + 366M Xi'Chung (5% migration/year, 15% birthrate/year)

So, first, for the humans, the migration and birthrates seem to be calculated per turn and not per year.

And secondly, where do all these Xi'Chung come from? Even if migration does not take proximity and cargo ship carrying capacity into account (my best freighters can carry about 30M people, and I generate twice as many research points as the Xi'Chung do), we do definitely not see anything resembling a 5% migration rate. Colonized a 3rd planet, same explosive growth. I mix them with humans on a carbon dioxyde planet that is domed for both of them, and they again grow many times faster than humans.

Re: Colony Types
 

All those Xi'Chung would be coming from the other empire with 'invisible' ships, I'm guessing. Isn't migration just the people *leaving* the planet? It doesn't say how many people actually immigrated from other planets, yours or your ally's.

So in SEV you can actually have a planet loose population simply because they're leaving to other planets in your empire( or other empires, if shared migration) at a higher rate than the current birthrate.

Re: Colony Types
 

where is there detailed info on migration?

And what happens if he pulls off all the humans living on the planet? That'd allow more tonnage to devote to buildings because the planet would no longer be domed. Would the player still own it with having just xichung on it?

Re: Colony Types
 

I understand that the actual immigration process is abstracted by using an Immigration Rate percentage value. But how come I have 181M immigrants on the first turn after colonization, in 0.1 of a year? What does "5% migration/year" mean? 5% of what? The whole of the other empire's population? That would be silly.

Need to also check if all these millions are really removed from the other Empire. I've just researched Gas Giant colonization, and am about to colonize half a dozen more methane planets. 100M/turn migration onto each of my planets would leave the Xi'Chung empire empty within a year http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. Conquest through immigration for the win! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

What happens is that I have a mix of human and Xi'Chung population on the same planet, under my flag. If I remove the non-native breathers (i.e. humans) from the methane planet it loses its 'domed' status and I can exploit it as if it were a green oxygen planet with oxygen-breathing humans. The planet remains in my possession.

It works just like in SEIV, where you would manually first conquer then transport native-breathers to the appropriate planets so they are not domed anymore. SEV added this migration feature to do it automatically and without even having to conquer these other populations, you only need to micro-manage the removal of the non-native breathing colonizers if any. It's just that the immigration rates seem way off.

Re: Colony Types
 

What does "5% migration/year" mean? 5% of what?

5% of the current population of Xi'Chung are going to leave your planet that turn. It does not say how many will arrive( which is about 180 million each turn, judging by your post).

So after the second turn, 5% of those 181 million will go away from that planet, there will be a 12% birthrate and close to 180 million people will wander in from the other empire's planets.

181*0.05=9m
181*0.12=22m

181-9+22+180= 374m

So there should be about 374 at turn 3 assuming a 180mill immigration. Since the actual number is 366M that means the immigration was instead 172 million, a slight lessening from last turn.

Note that migration will obviously even itself out, once the two empires' population level starts to become equal, so they wont actually ever send all of their population to you. Note also that by using their population you gain their racial traits and loose your own on the planets/ships where there's a majority(?) of their population. Not sure exactly how that part works yet, not been in such a situation.

Unless the migration is a one-way thing in the pact, you'll also probably be sending alot of humans to them.