Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

oh yeah, not the crazy good summons, but still enough electicity to light up New York City for a few days.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

It's clear that I have lost this war. Any turn now, my few remaining provinces will be lost and I can no longer offer any resistance. Since my vacation is coming up in the end of this week I will set my self to a.i.

I would like to thank everybody for a fun and rewarding game. I have learned alot, and it has become painfully clear that I have alot more to learn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Perhaps we will see each other in future games to come.
Take care, and gl all with the game!

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

You've been a worthy opponent Hardeldt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Look forward to play with u in other games!

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

yeah, it was fun. See ya around.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

So that I can learn, can somebody explain the proper way to use scout decoys? I've had more scout decoys than real commanders every time R'yleh has cast nukes at me for the past 30 turns. The only times they have worked has been when I move (not sneak) them along with the army. How am I supposed to use them? Do I have to sneak them into the province the army is coming from, or do they have to already be in the province with the army before the turn? Or does sneaking stop them working at all, and they have to just move along with the army?

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

If you want to use scout decoys, yep, they have to move with the army. Although I think it's not worth your time getting them and using them - it's useless unless they can be in some way useful in actual fights. Hell, for that effect, I just have a crapload of Star Children moving with my army which seem to be preferred targets for your attacks - with full research, they aren't really worth anything to me anymore, other than as a bit more expensive than regular Illithid Mind Blasters.

So, your main problem is that you don't have any cheap commanders which actually would still be worth something in a fight as well, but are expendable enough, too. If you start putting items on them they become better in battles, sure, but then it'll actually sting when you lose them... Which makes it less nice, and not really a good choice when you could put the items on your mages which need the protection a whole lot more.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

I think it would have been worth it. I've had plenty of time when I couldn't afford to recruit mages at all my forts to grab scouts. And they're nearly free (20). Your nukes have totally dominated me. But that's neither here nor there. I had them, I just didn't use them correctly.

So just to make sure I understand, they have to move, not sneak. So sneaking units are immune to (most) ritual attacks?

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Yeah. I think Fires from Afar and Flames from the Sky type of things will still also hit sneaking units. But that's different, since, especially Flames, is a rather indiscriminant killer in the first place.

But you know, watching that one fight in the north where you took back one of your provinces was kinda funny. I've never seen one guy getting enslaved, then charmed, then enslaved again and charmed once more before. I wonder why everyone was so happy about hitting that Tartarian Monstrum in particular. ;p

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Yeah, that was a hillarious fight. I was upset when he (my highest HP guy) got enslaved, and then when I noticed my guys started casting charm on him, I was really excited and rooting for him. And then he went over to fight my elephants, and I couldn't tell if he was attacking the charmed one or not, so I didn't know if he was mine or yours. That was fun.

There was another one lately when Pangea attacked my raiders with an army and the gorgon. I won the fight pretty handily except for the gorgon. Which passed out due to grip of winter. My whole army proceded to kill itself on her, plus lots and lots of my summons. All but one of my casters were out of range. So I think the frozen gorgon sat there while phantasmal wolves killed themselves on her until the 50 turn autoroute. That one was fun too. Plus I learned a valuable lesson about not always sticking my casters in back.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

yeah, you really outmaneuvered me with that storm. The Gorgon was set to attack rear, and as I watched the fight all I could think of was "Why is she walking?"...(the sound of me sapping myself) Oh yeah, no flying in storms.

Also, I think sneaking units can be hit by province hitting spells. Sensori's mind hunts killed three of my scouts in Ulmish territory.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Oh, they did? I guess I was wrong, then, and WonderLlama just got really, really unlucky.

But... That kind of lack of luck seems kind of impossible. I never hit scouts when they were sneaking in Caelum's territory. Maybe you can only hit scouts of other people rather than the one who owns the province?

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Well, some of the time I was sneaking my scouts with my army. And then that didn't work, so I guessed that maybe stealth movement came before rituals, so I started moving them one step behind my army. So it's not quite as unlucky as it seems.

But there must be something special about stealth and rituals. I've seen people on the boards say that one of the advantages of stealth is that you can raid and then stealth before your opponent can react with rituals. I wasn't sure if that meant stealth movement came before rituals, or protected against rituals, or what.

Could it be that mind hunt ignores stealth, but summoning style assainations (like earth attack) don't?

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

I was just trying a game against the AI and I was being plagued by assassins. I tried popping a few mind hunt's at them and never connected. Either they are moving out before the mind hunt fires or they can't be hit.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Hmmm, we had another battle where that Monstrum got enslaved. This time, I put a bunch of guys (with brains) in front of him to screen. But he still got targetted by the enslaves right off the bat. Is that because he's larger? Or is it just not possible to screen against enslave?

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Because he's larger. Casters for single target spells will go for what they deem the most valuable target. I think it is simply based on hit points, but I'm not sure.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

I know they'll go for a valuable target. I thought they still had to be able to see the target, though. So I tried to obscure line of sight. So does line of sight not matter (for this at least) or does the size of the target unit affect los?

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

I don't think line of sight matters for spell casting. I could be wrong.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Ok, thanks. That explains it.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

I know it's kind of close to the deadline, but can I get a bit of an extension this turn? Just 8 hours would do. My orders for this turn have taken a very long time. I have an hour at lunch to finish up, but I don't think that will be long enough.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Postponed by 10 hours. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Thank you so much. You're the best!

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

I'm curious what you will be come out with Wonderllama :-)

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Illithid, both young and old, have been having a nice time outside Caelum's fortress. That location has been deemed a safe location for the Illithid families to have good, whole hearted fun for the entire family at by the administration. The numbers of Illithid and auxiliaries only grow as time passes as more and more people hear of the fun being had on the ground level beneath the mountain fortress.

And there is much more fun to be had! Just this month, a new skiing resort just opened! Qubeley the Starspawn is the head figure of this entire endeavor of turning Caelum into an amusement park, and his fun sayings such as "R'lyeh is Rising" and "Fhtagn" are sweeping the nation! There is also an observatory for the young ones to watch the locals hiding inside their fortress. It's all jolly good fun!

In other news, Gouf the Starspawn, whom was thought to have been lost forever in time and space, came back the other month and in R'lyehian territory for once. And there was much rejoicing! He's just a bit crazy now, but no one's perfect!

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

It seems there has been some miscomunication and some of my demonic forces killed a little pangaeans army in Eribon(76) , we mourn the passing of so braves soldiers ;/

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Aldrick, my general who survived the fiasco with R'lyeh many months ago has been killed by my other ally. He will be mourned.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

I've been trying to send my turn in for the last 30 minutes, but hotmail isn't working. (It says the server is too busy.) There is currently a little over 2 hours until the turn. I expect I'll get it through in time, but if I don't, is it possible to fix it?

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Guys let us know how the battle in caelum capital goes !

There are so many troops there it will be an awesome thing to see, actually if some of you can film it trhough fraps or something similar would be most appreciated!

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Yeah, when it happens, it'll be a big one, and since he's not coming out, it's gonna be VERY disadvantageous to me when I eventually storm the fortress. I'm not seeing myself winning it, and if I do, it'll be because of crazy lack of luck on Caelum's side. Having checked out his army just now I can see that.

And based on what I saw... I'm getting the feeling that Arco and Marignon really did send all their gems most of the time to him. I can't explain how he has so much magical infrastructure left STILL even with like 2 provinces (which are besieged) otherwise. 25 gems from globals + 5 from your cap isn't that much, especially when you'd need to alchemize the Earth and the Air gems for Astral.

And now WonderLlama, your remains of the "alliance of good" really has gone to new lows - you're using blood slaves yourself. ;p

How do you explain THAT?

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

My allies did send me the gems they had left just before they went out, but not before. Most of my income is my own, and I'm perfectly comfortable in my castle until my dominion runs out. Arco sent me his blood slaves when he went out. I'm not really sure where he got them. I guessed maybe he took them from an abyssian commander in battle, though I'm not sure if that's possible.

As far as coming out of the castle goes, I was planning on it originally, but then I discovered my fountain can't even patrol/ break siege. Somehow I though I had patrolled with one before. So that was a nasty surprise. Can't see myself breaking out without it.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Went pretty much I expected it to go (lost), but in a way it went better than I had expected as well. Most of my unique item carriers survived the fight (and most of the SCs did too) while everyone else went six feet under or got Master Enslaved/Undead Masteried. Very little I could do against those - only thanks to Sword of Injustice I didn't lose the entire skelly army.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Nah, it's not possible. Could've been an event, though. I doubt he got them through blood hunt considering you were the "good guys". ;p

Yeah, I knew you would probably not come out there, which is why I tried to force the issue, fully aware that I was going to probably lose. The extent of the loss, however, was a bit of a bummer - only like 10 mages (luckily they were the guys that mattered) survived. On a positive note, I have a LOT of cash to spend now!

All in all, I think if you ever showed up outside your home, your guys would die in an insane barrage of spells. So that place's probably the safest for you until your dominion runs out. ;p

But if that's all you... How the *beep* have you gotten hundreds of astral gems and a bunch of others while pretty much under siege? That makes no sense.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

I'll explain where the gems are coming from after the game.

I'll also save this turn file aside somewhere. After the game is done, I'll post it so everyone can see the actual battle.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

do you have a clam economy? Where would you get the resources?

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

I did send him some blood slaves. They were from a random event.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

BigandScary, from the fight I gathered that he does not seem to have a *large enough* clam economy to explain it, unless this has been going on for a very long time (somewhat likely - how could've he had 400+ astral gems *during* the siege?). In fact, his clam income seems to be pretty much the same as mine. That's the thing I noted.

And my clam income, combined with my astral income, would be enough to cast one Wish per 3-4 turns. Sure, if I alchemized everything, I'd have more at my disposal - but I don't. I guess I could've just turned to Wishing, but I didn't feel the need. It won't take a lot of work to change that, however.

And WonderLlama, I knew how the fight would go when I went for it, but I went for it anyway. All in all, after watching it, I found it to be even more anticlimatic than I originally thought it would be. All I could hope for was that the Master Enslave would, for some reason, not go off - which it did. Same with the Undead Mastery. Damn AI working at the wrong time. I also could've attacked with a smaller part of the army, making the Master Enslave and Undead Mastery not go off with some luck. But that would've been far less fun (and far less upkeep releasing).

I saw the Undead Mastery guy and the Master Enslave guy before I attacked (that's why I attacked with that lone skelly leader in the first place, I wanted to know what you were packing) - and I knew how powerful the effects would be, especially with the Master Enslave guy having 5 in penetration. There was no doubt in my mind that I'd fail when I sent the turn in. Yep, I knew I would, unless you had done some seriously stupid choices in magic. As a result, it's nowhere near the end of me - I have much stronger armies brewing in the back. I just wanted to try if that bunch of suckers could pull it off, which it did not. ;p

EDIT: After thinking about it a bit, I can see how you could pull it off better. You thought you could hold back - which meant casting things (a LOT of things, like that Sea of Ice which was (and still is) pointless) you didn't really need in the grand scheme of things. You, apparently, didn't take into account that Arcoscephale and Marignon would only end up serving as speed bumps. There was nothing they could've done against concentrated, planned efforts to destroy them one by one. Their low research (especially Marignon's) were big problems for them I'd say.

And where I threw gems away at three to four different sides (Arco, you, Marignon, Ulm) in an attempt to weaken them and/or keep them at bay to help an ally, you only worried about Abysia while strengthening your own powerbase in the back. But in the process you left me virtually unscathed and let me bring about huge (free) chaff armies with which I flooded over Arco, seeped into Marignon and slowly (well, not that slowly - you didn't even try to stop me) made my way into your lands as Abysia chose to put his power into use elsewhere. This leads us to a somewhat funny situation where I can throw a numerically large army at you, make it bleed to death at your doorstep and call it acceptable losses.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

this is a mystery. I will be very interested to learn his secret.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Well, it's not that much of a mystery once you think about it - my and his gem incomes might have been nearly identical for a long long time, but he had two nations working as a buffer zone whereas I had to constantly react to his, Marignon's, Ulm's and Arco's attacks and throw all kinds of things on them (Mind Hunts, Earth Attacks, the works).

That obviously stunted my growth (and I mentioned it to Abysia quite a few times), while I knew that Caelum would probably be growing stronger. But now that he only has one safe province to work in without getting bombarded to hell... Well, it was all for naught. And now this game has turned into a "Wait till Caelum dies a Dominion death" game. :-p

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Ouch! I was fine with my Forge of the Ancients dispelling any other enchantment out there. Including my other ones. Just not the earth well. I figured I had a 4/5 chance. And I certainly need to gamble. Ouch!

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Sorry about the delay. Llamaserver wasn't accepting my turn last night for some reason. The first time I got a "Pretender not found" (or something like that) error email. The second time, I got no response at all. And didn't know it hadn't worked until this morning. But I sent it in again, and it worked.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Np wonderllama http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif btw your defense so far has been heroic, after losing all your province except the capital in like 5 turns you're proving to be very hard to beat definetly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Yeah, although it's a bit pointless since the game'll end with Caelum's destruction. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif Still, a valiant effort to make the game take just a few turns more.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Well, I had a good run. After that last turn, I'm ready to go AI. You hit me very hard with those fireballs. I was going to put up several redundant domes next turn, but I figured this turn all your spells would be going after my invading army.

It's your call though. I'm fine with trying to hold off a few sieges if that's fun for you all.

Either way, good game.

Oh, and as promised, my secret. I was up to about 50 clams. All those scout decoys that never worked as decoys had them. Maybe you figured that out. Those fire spells killed most of them though. I made them using Ice Crafters who had been empowered with nature. So they were half price. And I must have used about 20 wishes, mostly on gems. So I was in no danger of not being able to finance that. I was just about to wish for armageddon 5 turns in a row, which I figured would end blood hunting and bring you all down to my income level. But you got me too soon. Probably nothing shocking on what I did, but I didn't want to tell you about just how many scouts I had with pearls lest you go after them.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Well, that was kind of why I threw all kinds of crap on your home earlier in an attempt to rid you of the Air dome to let Abysia throw Flames from the Sky at you without it interfering. ;p To stop you from Wishing by destroying your clam base (which was all you had). And obviously you had more than was showing (suspicion confirmed by your guy having Wished again - a level 9 astral mage doesn't turn into a level 10 astral mage with all other magic levels rising a level too without wishing). I myself am using the very same technique and have my clams on hiding Star Children all over my nation. Yeah, I figured it out all on my own a few days ago! ;p

To make a long story short, I knew I used gems where you didn't (remote attacks, lots of them), and I should've realized before posting that you had used them for that (clams). Altho I bet it has required a lot of alchemizing to get that going.

As for you quitting... It'd work for me quite well. I think this game has gone past its expiration date.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

You realize you're changing the terms of the game? It wasn't team victories! That was part of our reasoning in attacking Abyssia--we saw that it was not in your interest to help Abyssia and didn't expect to be facing your combined armies.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

I guess I should have had multiple air domes up sooner. I didn't anticipate anything quite so damaging. I certainly had the air gems for it.

I have set myself to AI. I also thought there could be only one winner, although it wouldn't surprise me if R'yleh could just claim it.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Nope, we didn't change the terms of the game. Nothing in said terms said that allied victories were prohibited. And you were wrong if you expected that I would let Abysia die to your alliance. How stupid did you think I am? Had Abysia died, I would've been isolated and pretty much alone against FOUR hostile nations and would've lost any chance to win (or even help someone else to win). Yes, that's your alliance and Ulm.

Sure, we had a much looser alliance in place before the war with you, but your massive war forced it to turn into a much deeper one. I had to be sure that if I sacrificed my growth and helped Abysia with remote spells as much as I could, it wouldn't end up biting me in the *** in the form of Abysia doublecrossing me. And the same of course goes for Abysia - he had to make sure that I wouldn't start using my stuff against him.

At the moment, however, the game's not even fun to play anymore and I'd be willing to just call it a draw between me, Abysia and Pangaea anyways if they felt inclined to even if the "to the end" alliance was not in place. Since, all in all, the effects of the alliance is just that - it's a draw between 3 nations once Caelum is either destroyed or leaves the scene.

EDIT:

Just started thinking... Would you have been happier if I had lied about it and claimed that us three had come to an agreement that we'll call the game a draw after Caelum's dead? Since effectively the alliance has the very same end result, and I would have asked them about a possibility for draw even without the alliance. ;p

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

After all things have been said and done, you played your game pretty damn well. I never (well, before I realized your god was an Oracle and you took the Chalice from me) expected that you went the Wish way. That was the way I intended to go originally too, but never had the chance thanks to all the wars that depleted my gems turn after turn for a long long time. I however did expect to see a lot of nasties from you, which in someways I did, although due to your Wishing for things like magical power instead of using the gems for troops, I don't think I saw quite as much as I had feared, much to my relief. A really strong immobile mage isn't as a big of a threat as a huge army of moving killers. You can just besiege him and keep him locked up.

There's one thing that I wondered about as we finally managed to get past Arco and Marignon and head into your lands. I don't quite understand why you let me take over your lands so easily. All I used was a bunch remote summons which I expected to be destroyed very quickly (they were worthless chaff after all). I was surprised that you didn't even try beating them back at the time. Considering that I knew that you were stronger than either of us (Abysia and me) alone (took our combined efforts to beat you back)... It was a really big surprise. Of course NOW it'd be a lot harder because I've been able to start hoarding gems and whatnot, but at the time...

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Okay, it sounds like this game is over, so I'll end it. I hope you all enjoyed it.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

Thanks Llamabeast for awesome hosting! And yeah, the game was fun (or more like nerve wrecking, but fun nonetheless) for quite a while. Only in the last, what, about 10 turns, prolly less, it's been very obvious that Caelum was stuck in a downward spiral and the interest (on my part) towards the game started to wind down.

I also remembered why I never play a lot of PBEM games at once in any game, and why I always took some time out from them when they ended. I get crazy stress from those turns which can pretty much make or break the game for you and your side. Too many things could go wrong, and if they do, it could be the end of you... It stresses me out completely.

WonderLlama could've caused the game take a LOT more time if he had wanted to since his capital was close to impenetrable due to his awesomely powerful Pretender, so thanks to him for not doing that. Only way to get him out would've been dominion death... And that would've taken a long long time.

Re: Mongoose - MA game for new/newish players
 

I would like to take the time for some messages =)

First of all to Llamabeast : THANK YOU FOR YOUR HOSTING!
The service was wonderful and you were very present when problems arised ! a really plus http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Thank to all other players that contribute to make this game so exciting , in particular :

Sensori which was my allie for the most part of the game and from whom i've learned a lot
To the 'forces of good', Marignon+Arco+Caelum that really made the game interesting and helped me improve my skills a great deal to survive your onslaught http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif
To Wonderllama a particular note for being a worthy adversary ^_^
Eldanesh who was a friend in the beginning of the game and only due to war with my other allie ended up out of the game

For the other players i didn't have much contact with u.. hope to play other games though and meet u there!