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I have not heard anything back from Ylvali. Has anyone heard from her? If we do not hear something soon and she keeps staling, we are going to have to make a decision about contacting llamabeast regarding the admin of the game and how to handle Pythium. If we leave the nation to stale, it will unbalance the game.

Any thoughts?

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Hey guys. I just got the game recently and I'm eager to sink my teeth into MP. If you guys are having trouble finding a sub, I'd be happy to jump in.

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Well, since as far as I can tell, Ylvali hasn't signed on the forum for 2 weeks, and thus hasn't showed up to explain the situation... it looks like we really don't have any choice but to ask for subs.

The other players should chime in with their opinions as well.

(We should probably put the hosting of the game on pause, until this is resolved.)

Btw, thanks for the offer Piggles, we may have to take you up on it. Also, welcome to the forum.

Edit:
I've sent a PM to llamabeast to resolve the lack of admin situation, which means I'll likely be the next one.

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I still don’t have anything from Ylvali and fear she has dropped out. I am with Darkstone, we can take Piggles up on the kind offer of subbing in.

We have four stale turns, which is a lot. Continuing to stale is no fun and AI will disrupt game balance.

Piggles, if you join in, you need to be ready for a defense against MA Ermor. I have been focusing my attention on Ulm in the last few turns, but you would likely be next… You would have NAP/alliances with Ulm and Man, which it would be nice if you could maintain for at least a few turns. I cannot say what their deals are with Ylvali, so it would be good to talk with them. And in all fairness, you will probably have enough on your hands with Ermor that you won’t want an extra fight.

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Alright, I've postponed the game for 24h while we resolve this.

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All right, I sent a PM to Darkstone with my e-mail address. I'm still quite new, and probably at least as clueless as many of you were when this game first started, so I'll try to keep pythium intact at least long enough for her enemies to get an honest whack at her. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif It sounded like Ylvali had a lot going on, so I'm going to have to get to work!

If Ylvali wants to take over again, just let me know and I'll turn things over. I just wanted to see what the later stages of MP games looked like. I feel like that'll help prepare me for what to expect when I start my first brand new MP game.

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Piggles,
Welcome. I play Eriu.

This will give you a chance to see late game tactics. Just kick back and have fun. Try some different buttons. As an FYI the writing is on the wall for the rest of us vs the Agartha/Ermor machine. That doesn't mean you can't have a good time. Enjoy the small victories you (we) can yet win. PM me if you need anything.

-SSJ

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Alright, it seems Piggles is the new player of Pythium.

Piggles:
I'm setting Pythium to your email. What you're going to want to do is go to:

http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Acouchi

And click on request turn resend, then choose Pythium. (I could this myself, but I want you to get acquainted with using the llamaserver, which is the server that hosts our particular game. You can see what turn the game is on, and when the game is going to host. I believe there is more information at the beginning of this thread.)

This should get you the latest turn.

In case you haven't read this particular section of the manual yet, the part relevant to playing PBEM is on pages 29-31.

That should cover everything, but if you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

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Piggles,

SSJ has a good approach to things and this has been a huge learning experience for all of us. I am not sure I agree with him that the writing is on the wall, but he is correct in pointing out that Ermor is not your friend! Saxon will be friendly, but The Unhappy One (my pretneder) will not... I don’t know what Nero has out for scouts, but generally speaking, I have the continent to the south of you and have been moving north, pushing you and Ulm before me. Over the last four or five turns, I have been focusing on Ulm for various reasons.

You can feel free to attack me as we are at war and I imagine there are a couple of provinces you will want to as clean up quickly. I had been raiding in your back areas. In all fairness, you need to know that the castle in the north which is being seiged by some hawks has an income of over 300 per turn. You might want to look at lifting the siege, which should not be a big problem given that I have no support in the area. I think it is around 15% of your total gold income.

You should also look at the use of Fog Warriors with your main armies. It is a highly effective tactic that was being used against me in pretty much every battle. Also, learn about Communions (there is a great thread on the forums you can search for) as it is a real strength of your nation.

Finally, my main armies are chaff undead (no surprise there) and I have Tartainians. I have the Chalice, so the feeble mind problem does not exist for me. That means you will face SC who teleport or fly over the front lines. I have found this tactic very different than SP and had to adjust. SSJ taught me a lot about it, the hard way…

You also need to be careful of my mind hunts. You have the astral to defend against it, but you have to pay attention.

Also, you have a decent position. I have considered your nation the most likely to win for quite some time, but was able to knock out a series of your SC harbingers and air queens which turned the tables. I was optimistic I was going to be able to take Nero out, but far from convinced.

I hope this helps. It is all things Ylvali would have known or guessed, so I am happy to share. If you have any questions or just want to chat about the game feel free to post or PM.

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Piggles, have you received your turn?

Looks like we're going to have to wait a bit longer for the next turn. I'm adding another 12 hours to the timer. Hopefully then we'll be able to get back to the slaying and blighting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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Just submitted it.

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All,

You will be pleased to hear that Piggles has already managed to upset a number of my grand schemes and has jumped right into things. Looks like we have a good sub in our game!

Also, has anyone seen a little old lady wandering around in their lands? SSJ seems to have lost his pretender...

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Going on vaca for a week so Xanatos is gonna sub for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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Email address set up for the sub.

Edit:

Also, what happened to Ulm? He staled last turn, and looks set to stale again.

If he stales again, and doesn't show up to ask otherwise in the next 48 h, I'll have to set him to AI.

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P,
Very nice summary from Sax. You might want to summon some scepters (with both stealth and astral) and have them travel in stealth in your big armies. They can surpise mind hunters. Learned that in my other game.


Cheers,
-SSJ

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Sax,

She wasn't much to look at (especially after the earth elemental played patty cake with her http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/Injured.gif ). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

She was designed almost purely as a late game wild card (D10 + rainbow) but I couldn't get the air/fuel mixture quite right...

-SSJ

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Ulm staled again, I have not heard anything.

SSJ, I found the death blessing very helpful against Karim's early rush, but only mildly useful otherwise. I had taken it to be thematic and in a rush to get the pretender in. Not sure I would go with it again. Have you found it interesting?

Also, on the stealthy astral, it is a nasty idea. Against a nation like Piggles, who have astral all over their national mages, one expects it, but against some other nation, it could make a mess of things. Of course, with the Chalice, it is not such a big deal in this game for me...

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Sax,
There were tested reports in some forum thread that the death bless transferred to ritual attacks if you had the ritual caster wear a Shroud of "BS" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif . I have not seen that antecdotally in my rituals. With D10 carrying a 400% affliction chance I figured many cheap rituals would become devastating. Also late game undead mastery with D10 mage + a couple items would make large late game undead attacks moot (assuming you could get the spell off). I figured at that level it might even work on tarts.


-SSJ

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Alright, this is the last chance for Ulm. I'm postponing the game for 12h. If he doesn't show up by then, he's AI.

*sigh* Though I do have some sympathy for Ulm since his original ally dissapeared...

I believe I am correct to assume that the general etiquette is that if you feel like you've lost the game, you don't just stale, but ask the admin to turn you AI. So whoever is beating you doesn't have a twice as easy time of it.

Edit:
SSJ: I've heard similar reports about the Death bless, and believed it verified.

As for Undead Mastery, that seems quite useless against 26 MR tarts even with max penetration gear (since the spell is MR+). I believe it's use is more against the undead hordes of Ermor... or even EA C'tis.

No, against Tarts without an undead horde, I'd probably be suggest spamming control the dead.

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I had heard the death bless applies on attack spells, but had not heard about it with rituals. It is hard to tell the impact in the game, as the opponent isn’t usually keen on telling you just how bad you hurt him!

As for announcing you are dropping out, I agree it would be polite to let others know. I was impressed at how meister_miagi stuck it out with R’lyeh, even when in an impossible spot.

I suspect this is a common problem, especially with new players, as the time commitment involved in a game is big. Further, one can know they are in deep trouble for a long time before actively being knocked out. At 72 hour turns, it is only 10 turns a month.

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Alright,.. setting Ulm to AI.

I suppose the only way to do that is to set the Ulm email to my own, resend the turn, and then set him as AI, and then send that turn? A bit inconvenient.

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Lol, now I know what happens when a routing SC that won't die and has pathetic damage output is surrounded by 500 undead, and the only way out is through a tartarian. Answer: the tartarian slowly gets worn down to a nub, routs, and is followed by the entire Ermorian army. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif Unfortunately, the person who routs first still loses.

And I'm saddened to report that "Piggles' Revenge" froze to death while happening to be in the path of 50 retreating wights. He was destroyed by the first Ermorian unit that reached him, a skeleton. This is a poor omen indeed.

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Now I am dying to see the turn, but since I am at work on a really poor computer, I can only see the reports, but can not see the actual battle!

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Good lord, what a mess! I have to see these battles. It is not as bad as I had feared, nor is it as good as I had hoped. It is something completely different! What did you do to my commanders?!?

I also look forward to seeing who Piggles’ Revenge was. Perhaps I will have to rename a Tart after him/her/it.

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Sorry for not making this request sooner, but is it possible to have a 12 hour extension on account of the July 4th holiday? I'm going to be working at a fireworks stand from 8am to 10pm, and I could really use the extra time to plan out my turn. Thanks.

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Done.

Good Game
 

With the latest Ermorian and Agarthan victories, over Ulm and Man respectively, controlling the globals, and two thirds of the map, I believe we've managed a very difficult task against some incredibly tough, resilient, and crafty opponents, and this game can be declared finished.

I know Ermor wanted to do a couple more turns, but I've just sent a skeleton turn in to clean up a few provinces and not stale, and I'm not sure how excited anyone else is about continuing.

I want everyone to know that my position was mostly about getting lucky and my chosen strategy just panning out. My early game was secured due to having a very excellent position in the southeast corner, Arco to the north having a slow start and not grabbing too much land, Ermor to the west, focusing farther west when Machaka invaded, and of course an alliance with said Ermor early on.

Things continued to go well when my only other neighbor, Oceania went AI for unknown reasons after I turned back an early invasion from them, and this cemented a position I could consolidate and build towards mid/endgame.

My strategy consisted of heavy diplomacy, limited aggression and significant defensive play, really extensive scouting and scrying, and building up vast gem producers for the greater part of the game. Being left alone for quite a long time and wasting few resources on continuous conflict was a large part of that.

My rainbow pretender was able to fill in the role of casting/forging anything I needed, early on the boosters which let me fill in everything else.

This allowed my gem income to be really grow to become off the charts, and to be free with such great spells such as Earth Attack, Blight, etc. as well forging significant amounts of equipment.

I was also lucky in getting a garnet amazon site early on which let me dive into some bloodhunting which otherwise would have been very difficult.

I can't help but mention how important scouting/scrying is. By knowing who is where, and with what, let's me really pick and choose diplomacy, battles, strategy, etc. and how to best deal with a specific opponent.

Hoplosternum deserves mention for being a trustworthy ally until we needed to conquer each other to win the endgame, meister_miagi for pure resilience and character in playing and staying around in a mostly unwinnable position when I've seen other players quit, and SSJ deserves mention for making me want to pull out my hair in frustration more than a few times. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Lastly, I was lucky that Saxon turned out to be such a great and trustworthy ally, with advice and opinions that significantly improved my game. As far as I can tell, Saxon's success can be attributed to his mastery of Ermor tactics, beginning with his skillful defense against the bless-rush by Machaka. His position was further improved by Van being domkilled by mistake early on, which left a vacuum that was able to be filled by him and Machaka, and eventually, just him. Watching many of his fights through scouts, was both inspirational and educational.

Thank you everyone. You've all made a very fun, challenging, and enlightening game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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As much as I have grown attached to this match, I have to agree with Darkstone. Further play is pretty much foreordained and, while the results might vary by a turn or two, the outcome is clear.

I credit my success to lucky initial placement and diplomacy. Where I started was a long way from any other capitals. Given that I staled my first two turns, I could have been in trouble, but got lucky. I had a SC pretender, which I was able to turn into a lot of early provinces.

Karlem, as Machaka, managed a quick dom kill and then came after me with a SC pretender Cyclops and those holy spiders. The same turn I ran into Darkstone, so I messaged both. Darkstone offered a much better deal and was very transparent in his discussions. Essentially, he built trust, explained a deal and explained why it was good for both of us; so I went for the deal. It later grew into an alliance, largely based on verified trust. I can not emphasis enough how critical this alliance would be to our success.

Karlem went for the rush knockout, but Ermor is the wrong nation to try that on. It has a spell called Apostasy, which essentially charms holy units. Once the spider rider is killed, the very strong spider has low magic resistance and is easy to charm. His bless troops quickly turned into my bless troops and I then pinned his SC down with my death bless, which racked up afflictions. After that, I pretty much took the entire bottom quarter of the map.

Diplomacy was critical throughout. I was able to work deals with many nations to get magic boosters and, most critically, the Chalice. I was also able to set up some good NAP and even get a few attacks made to my advantage.

SSJ, as Eriu, launched a wise attack on me with Wind Ride. He saw my lead on the graphs and figured I was a long term danger. At that time I did not have the Chalice and did not have a good end game plan, so I did not agree with him. I felt Pyrthium was the real danger long term. In any case, I had a very hard time dealing with Eriu and if he had invested more in it, it might have taken me out. Truly, two or three more of those attacks, at the same time, would have crippled me. It certainly slowed me down a lot. I was also engaged in a war with Rhyleh, which saw him stall and maul me. Darkstone and I were coordinating and Ray invaded from the north, but meister-magi still hurt us badly. It would be many turns later that Darkstone finally took him out. As Darkstone said, a great performance for a nation in a very tough position.

Pyrthium and Ulm then launched a solid joint attack against me. Ulm came by land and took a fair bit, but I was not worried. They were so far behind in research that their large armies were really just targets for spells. However, I was limited in what I could do because of a massive air attack by Pyrthium. Harbringers and a Queen of Elemental air, took massive chunks of my back territory and had me reeling. I eventually managed to get penetration items and spent a fortune mind hunting them, but eventually killed them off. I also made a deal with Hoplosternum for the Chalice, some diplomacy which led to later success.

By that stage I was getting a lot of Tarts and, though painful experience, learned how to use them. Without them and the Chalice, I would not have been able to take the next steps and probably would have fallen to the next combined attack. However, with winged boots, I was able to move quickly. The only reason I had boots was that I had traded with Man for a Bag of Wind, again, diplomacy.

I cleaned up my back yard and jumped over the water to invade Ulm and Pyrthium. I chose to focus on Ulm, as they were weaker and I hoped to get lots of gem income from them. It was at this stage that Ylvali started staling, which did mean I did not face a counter attack. I had assumed she had been saving up for a new offensive and really feared she was going to hammer me. I had calculated she could get some of the high level global astral spells up, which could have been very bad for everyone else.

Ulm had some castles in key locations, but once I got the capital, they were in trouble. I also started a dominion push, as I saw they were very low. In the end, I think Man’s dominion did the actually killing, but I made sure it was low enough to happen.

When Piggles joined us, Ulm was in the final stages of collapse, so I turned to Pyrthium. Piggles made me pay for my advances, but was not able to stop them. I have been picking provinces off and he has not been able to recover them. Piggles, you might think your pretender has me pinned in that castle. Take another look at the current dominion and what it does to his hit points and regeneration. I was coming after him this turn with regular forces plus petrifaction, paralyze and soul slay!

Also worth a mention in diplomacy is a big thank you to Darkstone. We set up a good working relationship and supplied each other with a steady flow of information and ideas. Game wise, I got a great deal, as his intelligence network was remarkable and provided me with both strategic and tactical information. Thank you again for pointing out my Wraith Lord was using his fist instead of a sword! Also, having a rock solid alliance allowed me to focus on my troubles. If that had not been in place, I am sure I would have gone down to Eriu or Pyrthium. I suspect that Darkstone would have also had a lot of problems with Arco if he had not been able to focus. More important, I gained a lot of good insights into both people and the game through our discussions.

I am very curious to see what is happening in other parts of the game. I propose that we post our last turns somewhere, so interested parties can have a look at each other’s nations. Can anyone suggest where we could upload the turns? Alternatively, I would be happy to email my turn to anyone and would be happy to receive the turns in the same way. Let me know your address if interested. I am reachable at scottis100 at hotmail . com Also, if anyone wants to discuss an aspect of the game we just played, let me know.

Unfortunately, due to family considerations, this has to be my last full game. Through diplomacy, my wife has agreed to me playing 48-72 hour turn around games without long term attachments. I am going to offer myself as a sub for the slower games and see what I can get. I look forward to meeting with you there!

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I was ready for a few more turns only to try out some end game mojo but... that said I'll concede to the Ermor/Ag Axis. So you two aren't going to duke it out? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Under "Shoulda, coulda,woulda..."

Should have done many more Plagues. I learned too late the potential of that spell. I think it could have been quite annoying even for Chaliced Ermor (Chalice can't be everywhere http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

Should have amassed more ponietroopers and launched them all at once (as Sax suggested) instead of piecemeal. I did have significant stealthy forces sneaking towards Ag that would have had Dark pulling out some hair. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Should have saved death gems and cast a D12 well of misery with the Crone. Would be tough to dispel.

Could have protected my twiceborn crone MUCH better and used her more effectively. Wish I had bought enough Astral/Blood for critical mass (barely started blood economy a few turns back).

Eriu temples are only 200gp. Tried to leverage an immortal/twiceborn strategy with that. My Dominion almost suffocated Aby by accident.

I enjoyed my alliances with Aby and Man very much. They were true to their swords. We should have started working closely much sooner (all three of us vs a single smaller opponent early/mid game, then another..., then another..)

Ag's second generation marble dudes were very tough cookies. Nice recovery Dark after the lightning incident on prototype #1. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Thanks also to my enemies. Without them the game would be nothing.

-SSJ

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wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! Is it over??? As my territory didnt grow much for like 60 turns or so http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Yehaaaa!!!

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Klag,
Nice signiture pic!
-SSJ

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No SSJ, we're not going to duke it out. When Saxon's game was interfering with his homelife, he was going to bow out of the game. These lategame micro turns take a hell of a lot of time, so we figured this 'allied win' was the next best thing to duking it out if we reached this point.

Besides, duking it out would just invite the remaining players to have a chance at victory in the chaos. ;p

By the way, SSJ, I had two major stealth forces on my way to you as well. GOR + Equipped Umbrals leading more umbrals.

The tarrasques were really dissapointing. I hope they're given a boost at some point by KO.

Lastly, I think what I was using was the perfect set of gear for the oracles, if it only didn't so much in gems. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
And if only my extra slot marble hero didn't die so sadly.

--
Yeah Klagrok, it's over.

Considering the situation, I'm pretty surprised you never cancelled our NAP, and joined Eriu and Man. I really feel like you could have made the difference when it mattered and add an extra punch to the combo.

But thanks nonetheless for sticking to our agreement. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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Well my pathetic income never really gave me a chance---plus was gone on vacation so figured didnt really want my sub to start attacking--and of course appears to be major bug with the demonbreds--they do what ever they please spellwise..... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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Thanks guys, I learned a lot in the few turns I was able to play. I got in a couple nice jabs at Ermor, but there were a few times where I got a little too fancy with the scripting and things ended up happening in a totally different sequence than I had planned. Now I know a thing or two about how temperamental the scripting engine can be. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

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So true. Eriu is set to now set to AI. It would be fun to see the computer fight it out with all nations set to AI. I don't think there is a provision for that though. Good game all!
-SSJ

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Not sure why you're going AI, the game is done. :0 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Oh right, it's my job to declare game finished. Silly me. Saxon, you'll receive one of my turn files today.

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weird got another turn????

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Er... I forgot to do it last night, and I just set it to be declared finished. You should get an email saying so.