Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

I don't know... 3 to 1 may be a bit more than is necessary. I mean, we're actually more or less holding our own in a pretty much 1 to 1 ratio at the moment. If ulm hadn't had so much trouble expanding he might not even be in danger of imminent death right now. It would take a pretty big map to justify the 3v1 I think.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

I liked the idea before of vets going solo, while noobs pairs of into teams or such.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Poor ulm. You guys all picked on him, didnt you? Merciless noobs!! ;)

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Nah, mictlan is who we're picking on. Mictlan who lost 20+ jaguars and numerous support units to just some pd in a battle over one of my provinces.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Currently this guy is me, but I'm quite glad of the long timer as I've just been so very tired lately, and then there's the whole rebuilding a computer thing. I'm going to try and get two turns done now though, so sorry for the delay.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Going away on friday, will be back on monday.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Ulm, on the scale of luck that you just had, that probably ranks about a 12 on a scale from 0-10.

:re:

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Oh, do tell on. Ulm hasn't said a thing yet. And I still haven't checked my turn yet. And won't be able to for a while longer, I need to shut my computer down for a storm. But do tell! Or ulm, you can tell also.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

So in the battle for his capital, my 150hp pretender received TWO afflictions from glancing (5-8dam) arrow hits in the first two turns. Which is ridiculously lucky on its own. But then more than that he got Crippled and Chest Wound so he could neither reach the front lines to turn the battle in my favor, nor flee the battle once my men routed. Off the scale luck!

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

The consensus seems to have been that the vets would gain the upper hand in the mid to late game due to their ability to create thugs or SC's and their familiarity with the magic system, maps, etc. I'm thinking of 3:1 to balance this, it will be a larger map and a longer playing game (as you know I don't care for this cramped stuff).

I'll likely give them first choice of nations.

Perhaps an indie strength of 3, though I'll need to balance this to ensure timing.

Edit: But we'll have to see how the current game plays out.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

The Gorgon has yet to take the field. We shall soon see though, what the Noobs can do against the Gorgon. (That first fight didn't count. She only had a rawhide shield for equipment).

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

I'm aware of the psychology involved (if people know they have the extra time they'll take it), I'm also aware that there are instances when people really do need extra time because they've got other priorities. Frankly, doesn't matter much to me, I've got an attention span longer than 48 hours and I'm not in any rush.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Yeah, game is at a good pace. Let's let it ride. I just don't want to see 72 hour too soon.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Imo it's not the thugs and SCs that are the big advantage the vets have over noobs, it's their overall knowledge of how to use spells and summons effectively, and knowing how to use their resources most efficiently. Actually thugs are probably harder for a noob to make than an SC, since they are supposed to be both cheap and effective as opposed to just effective. The vets are also probably better at dealing with early SCs, which is something I was worried about for this game with the choice to make many SC pretenders being an obvious one for them, but so far it hasn't been going too badly.

I think a map that allowed a proper 2 to 1 advantage for the noobs would be just fine, 3 to 1 and you start running out of room to maneuver and you may not be able to come at them all at once. Then again maybe that would work, but I still think it might be a little too much.


Wow, that is pretty rough. Ulm must have the luck of the dominions gods on his side to be pulling off a crazy stunt like that.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

3:1 is just too much. Possibly if all the noobs were rank amateurs - but as we can see from this game that is clearly not the case.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

i'm pretty sure affliction chance is determined by the nominal hp value, which is determined by the current province dominion; ie., if your pretender has 100 base hp, and the enemy dom is at least 4, he'll only have a nominal max hp of 20... so a 5-8 damage hit will yield a really good chance of an affliction.

also, arrows tend to be more likely to give chest wounds.

being crippled was bad luck :p

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

3:1 is indeed too much. As we have seen in this game, perhaps 2:1 is too much. Many noobs pick up the MP game very quickly, and when it is 2:1, with all the Noobs surrounding the Vets and able to attack on multiple fronts, well, it just becomes a quick duel, with all the Vets mid and late game knowledge thrown out the window.

That said, I certainly don't think this game is anywhere near over. A few of the Vets are still strong, and though I am a bit province poor at the moment, the Gorgon will soon make up for that.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Quite correct, the vets advantage comes from their in-depth knowledge of every facet of gameplay including the strengths and weaknesses of every available unit.

The actual number of players would not be much more than at present. But as I say, we'll have to see.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Admitedly, some of our noobs are greener than others, but I did give the vet team the opportunity to review and/or reject any noob team member whom they felt to be a ringer. They will always have this right.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Aww, I get NO credit. Yeah, it was bad luck that provided that specific affliction. Besides, I cursed you. Doesn't that make afflictions more likely? However, I am proud of the fact that I've now survived battles with two enemy pretenders and fended off a serious attack against my capital. BTW, you blinded my vampire! How rude...

Also, I am definitely a rank amateur. It's probably obvious.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

I agonized a great deal over placement to be fair to both sides, as there were two continents, the noobs were placed on the larger one and the vets on the smaller one, I wouldn't say that anyone was "surrounding" anyone else.

I've always been in favor of larger maps with delayed hostilities as I detest the rush mentality. If the vets feel that they won't be able to retain the advantage in a longer playing game with a majority of green noobs, or feel 3:1 is too much we certainly won't do it.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

You certainly deserve the credit. And beleive it or not, your probably more experienced than I am. :)

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Given that you cursed him, lumen, I would say that probably had everything in the world to do with it.

We do have a fair number of "relatively experienced noobs" on the team. I think on the frontline it's jomon, ulm, and gath who are the least experienced. Most of the really inexperienced players are on the inside though, with the exception of utgard who has been fairly quiet on our little forum and we have absolutely no idea what he's up to :P Technically I'm supposed to be one of the more experienced noobs on the team but I'm not terribly happy with my performance on the field so far, having one of the lower province counts and getting my army slaughtered by the first triple bless jaguar army I meet, feh. It's just a good thing my pd has so many archers.

It would have been more in spirit with the idea of the game to have more completely green noobs, I'm not sure how many of them are around at the moment though, and would not be too intimidated to go up against a team of some of the better players.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Maybe if I had gone Ulm, Jomon, Ulm or someone I'm more use to like Ulm. And exspecially not someone never used before like Bogarus. But honestly first MP game and I don't think I've ever played a SP game longer then 2 years. I wonder if that makes me a nice refreshing Lime Green.
I kinda get distracted easily, quit the game and then start up some other game I have on the comp. Rinse and Repeat.

I'm actually hoping that playing these games, with a turn will keep me playing them longer.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

It looks like I'm doing fairly well in the game but this is mostly due to the fantastic starting position I had. I don't think this map is very balanced.

This is my third MP game and I'm nearly eliminated from my first two. Before starting MP games I had only played EA nations in SP. I haven't yet played a game past year four. I really am a newbie, but that doesn't mean I'm not a quick study.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

I could always use forum ranking, # of posts, join date, etc as a general guide to noobishness in the future (most vets have over 2,000 posts to their name), but of course this doesn't really say anything other than how many messages they've posted. :)

This in combination with the veto power of the vets (provided they use it) should ensure we get what we're looking for.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Only problem with being a quick learner for games, is that you get bored of them even quicker. I remember High School playing chess, after a while I got so bored I would just play suicide chess against others.
Not until I learnt to play Go did I start playing properly. But then there were only a couple people who could play.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

I think I may go to a 42 hour turn interval @ turn 10 to accomodate the more action oriented players in this game and any future games.

Some stats:

Provinces:

Noobs = 76 , Vets = 21, Indies = 28

Income:

Noobs = 9043, Vets = 1901

The noobs currently hold almost 4 times as many provinces and have more than four times the income of the vets. Not necessarily surprising.

Research:

Noobs = 3193, Vets = 1537.

Dominion:

Noobs = 999, Vets = 541.

Vets are doing a bit better in terms of research and dominion given their team size as compared to provinces and income.

Army Size:

Noobs = 3860, Vets = 1481.

No surpise here either, given the 2:1 ratio, though it is slanted in favor of the noobs.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Oh yeah!

Go is also a beautiful game. So simple and complex at the same time. Just play 9-dan against the noobs and they often have a chance to learn and do well in the same game.

It's a real credit to Dominions 3 that it has held my attention nearly twice as long as any other game [of my adult life] so far, trailed distantly by lesh2's linux port of Jagged Alliance 2-1.13, which is a completely different kind of game but also has a fair amount of modding possibilities.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

I thought this was the case but you actually didnt curse my pretender till *after* he took the afflictions. I do give you some credit for good orders, but not for this :) It really was just insanely lucky.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

The Gorgon has come forth, and of course in one turn taken the lead in the Hall of Fame. All should fear the Gorgon. Muhahahaha.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Gorgons, I wonder I could summon Devils to defeat such a thing. Anything you can suggest for decapitation your Gorgon.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Vets: I didn't institute a delay on behalf of Evil Homer as his message indicated "Going away on friday, will be back on monday." and the turn did not host till around 20:50 GMT Monday, so I assumed he'd be back in time, though I see now Mictlan staled last turn. In the absence of an explicit PM or request for delay or otherwise, I'll assume we'll press on, unless I hear an objection from the vet team.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Yeah, no biggee SS, not much harm done. Now that the Gorgon is loose, not much harm can be done.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

LOL! I knew you all were picking on Ulm - even tho you denied it. Midgard just wiped out Ulm's whole army. Watching that fiasco almost pays me back for losing my pretender :) I consider it poetic justice for you all putting all your eggs in Midgard's basket.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Actually the eggs are being passed around pretty liberally :)

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

And look what it got you!

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Actually neither ulm nor midgard have received very many eggs. However, you do have a point. Many eggs were broken last turn and it made a pretty big mess. As a result of this we are looking into steps to mitigate the loss to overall omelette production.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Hah, The Gorgon sees a Wyrm. What a nice statue the Wyrm would nake.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Avoid staling if at all possible.

Thanks everyone.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Heh - someone is always going to stale Septimius.

How bout some props for me tho, for all those skin shifters I massacred in toe to toe combat?

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Quite true, the more people involved the greater the chance, it doesn't bother me later in the game as much as it does early on though. :)

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Delicious. The soon to be Wyrm statue comes within reach. We shall put it right in front of the main gate to our citadel.

Damn. Takes 100 monkeys to move the thing though.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Meh, skinshifters are as numerous as the needles on a pine tree. You can tear down as many as you like, but all you'll be left with is a giant mess to clean up.

Also, it appears that the vampiress might have met her match :shock:.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

If only she'd stay dead.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

I've decided to leave the hosting interval at 48 hours for now.

Contemplating either one of two hosting schedules for any future games:

1st 10 @ 36 hours, 42 hours @ 20, 72 @ 40 or 50.

or turn 1 @ 30 hours, turn 10 @ 36, etc, etc, 6 hours added every 10 turns.

Trying to find something that will work with everyones schedule, including my own.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Yeah, those sound like good hosting schedules. Never go over 72 hour though. People tend to forget about the game.

And oh, no one seems to want to attack the Gorgon. Funny. How can I get her Hall of Fame numbers up if no one attacks her?

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

well I'm sure if the Gorgon attacked a vet, it would greatly rise up. and hopefully die. just a suggestion

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

This is a difficult game to set hosting intervals for as opposed to say a FFA game, at any one time there are likely to be players with only 1 or two provinces, cramped space, time requirements for communication, all while attempting to keep people from getting bored and accomodating different schedules.

I also considering a hosting interval curve:

Turn 1 (36) hrs, turn 10 (42) hrs, turn 20 (48) hrs, turn 30 (42) hrs, turn 40 (36) hrs, etc.

This allows for an accumlation (expansion) period. The top of the curve could be indie prov=0.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets, LA, CBM, Game Running.
 

Yeah anything over 48hrs really kills the momentum of the game. Personally, I think that at the very least, turns 1-10 should be 24hrs MAX. They are such fantastically small and easy turns it doesnt really make sense otherwise.