Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

True enough, but such is diplomacy. I could have attacked you too, but that again would have made Ermor easily the most powerful nation. R'lyeh jumped the chance and now Kuritza is ranting about how Ermor is imbalanced and never again shall he play the game with Ermor and so on. I didn't want that. I was very much against Ermor around 10-15 turns ago, had plenty of armies on his border, and was ready to attack, then the fiasco with the staling occured. Basically what happened was that everyone was *****ing about everything, so I decided to stand back and let actions speak for themselves in-game for other players - so far I know that Man has attacked Ermor, and supposedly Abysia too.

And make him the top nation? How would that exactly change the situation? Then me or you would've needed to start a rantfest about how Man is overpowered and must be attacked, or I will never play a game with Man again since he's had time to grow with good strategic choices.

I like the new thread title by the way ;)

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

I asked you nicely many times. You and Quitty. You did nothing. Oh, both of you said 'yes, of course we will fight Ermor'. And kept doing nothing or attacking other players. Load of bull? HELL YES.

If you are going to attack me, this ruins the game completely. Its so much easier to make up some dumb reason and attack these who fight Ermor, while attacking Ermor is so... scary, yes?

Grats, coward.

Zeldor, you have won. THE most undesereved victory ever - these (so tempted to use this word) did nothing to stop you, and now Rlyeh will stop me, as he did with Marignon before.
I am out of here. I tried to open their eyes by reasoning and by critizising. But this is the worst game I ever played.

And if you are still 'not convinced LA Ermor is OP', just watch the graphs again. Yes, your opponents played badly, but this is also a large part of the game. There are many unskilled players; you started surrounded by them, and they even staled. Under such conditions, any nation gets very strong, but LA Ermor simply wins.

This would be different had me and Isokron (I fought him and I can say he is good) started near you... but this game is a proof that 'automatic gang-style balance' doesnt work; instead of joining against common treat, silly people turtle and hope they wont be next. This is why LA Ermor has more than twice the number of victories than its closest competitor. Yes, more than twice because HOF is not updaded anymore, I checked that. And thats even despite LA Ermor is often banned from games.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Are are nuts?

I am not LA Ermor. I dont have thousands of free units rising from their graves every turn. And I would surely suffer very, VERY heavy losses by spearheading the attack on Ermor's hub of power, while you and Rlyeh could get some Ermorian lands (he cant really defend against us all) and grow stronger.
And yes, then you could unite against me. I've seen this happen, in games with, you know... experienced players. Leaders come and go, and this is what makes Dominions fun. Turtling and complaining how you cant win anyway wont teach you anything.

... nothing will.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Pointers from you. How cute.

I had NO opportunity to attack Ermor. I had no border with him, and still working on getting one (Caelums castles are between me and him, I just stop his hordes by sending SCs while my armies siege castles).

He did. But Ermor has TOO MUCH spawn. For a while, trivial tactics you described seemed to work, but then rigor mortis, darkness (not sure Zeldor had to use it, but still) and Ermor's own SCs changed that.

Zeldor plays better than Ossa, for sure. But one cant fight overgrown LA Ermor alone, and Ossa asked for help, repeatedly. I guaranteed you and Caelum that I wont attack you if you attack Ermor, and even promised SC support.
Speaking of being nice and diplomatic... you just ignored me and turtled. Ermor is scary, ha ha.

Lots of crap.
Ermor needs land to get spawn, and gems. Ossa needed help. By fighting Ermor you'd give Ossa some breathing space, and most importantly, if you dont stop Ermor, whatever the cost, he kills you. I told that before, nobody believed me. I turned out to be right, but you are too stubborn to accept it.
Oh, and about you being able to defend against Ermor.... What a sad joke.

You lost your chance to win this game as soon as Ermor started growing so fast and his neighbours, including you, didnt do anything about it.

I already stated that I promised not to attack anyone who attacks Ermor.

Yep, Ermor takes skill to play right, just like any other nation.

Ganging on Ermor gives everyone an edge. And not trying to stop the leader is game-ruining.

Also, what is this "everyones war against Ermor" you talk of? Are you attempting to say with all this that the game can not be fun if Ermor wins?[/quote]
I am saying that watching Ermor defeat everyone one by one and not even trying to win is not fun. What you do is much worse than just going AI.

Ok, now thats it. Zeldor can declare himself a winner, if his conscience allows it after everything that happened here.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Thank you for being constructive.

I offered you a way to attack him/said I was open for such negotiations. You did not take the chance. Do not blame me for this.

Yes. All true. With enough chaff to fill the battlefield, Ermor could very well beat pretty much anything. But that requires that he'd pool everything he has into few single armies, which he has troubles to do (lots of MM, ferrying troops, nothing undoable though). With the forces I saw battling (Again, I did not see everything, but I did see a lot) Ermor certainly did not have several thousand undead per every fight. By the time Ermor has Rigor Mortis, Marignon should very easily have Solar Brilliance (counters darkness too, from what I remember) very easily. This is only one of many counters for those. Also, Mind Hunts. I believe you've heard of them.

Again true, but I had no way of knowing if you'd keep your word. In addition there was still aggressive mictlan south of me, and abysia south of him and north of me.

I fought (somewhat single-sided, I admit) wars, after which I could've struck Ermor with very little effect, since I didn't have anything to counter (immortal) SC's. I got that counter ready around 5-10 turns ago, which is too late.

Like stated, against a battlefield full of undead (meaning 2k-3k+ per fight) I'd struggle, probably lose too. I have national access to d3 mages, w3 mages and s3 mages. All very well capable of countering hordes of chaff, and sc's. Out of his dominion I can fight against his immortal stuff, inside it there's not much point.

True, Like I said, I should've done something earlier, which led ultimately into me losing.

Again, words. Promises can be broken. It would've been counterproductive to you attack me while I was attacking Ermor, since it would've strengthened your position considerably, I admit that. Which again leaves my southern/northern borders, and R'lyeh whom with I've had absolutely no contact regarding to anything, peace or war.


Exactly. Zeldor seems to have done very well in my opinion. I did not, and I know why. I've learned from the experience. Have you learned from this?

Except that the last (strong) nation standing would be you. I do not know what Abysia has, so I will not comment on that. I suppose he has some fire kings and possibly unique blood summons though. All very well counterable.

So, you are after all saying that the game cannot be fun if Ermor wins due he playing his nation well.

With you admitting that you cannot defeat Ermor, I believe he's the rightful winner. I'm ready to concede the game for him should he want to end this. I still would prefer if you'd fight on to actually see what happens.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

You most certainly did not! You PM’d me exactly once ever and that was responding to questions I sent you.

Well I certainly hope it ruins it for you! That’s the point. There is nothing I could do to enjoy myself more than attack you right now so it will hardly ruin things for me.

I am attacking you because of all the whining, all the name-calling, and all the useless drama. You’ve turned this game into a laughingstock of silliness and I can’t think of any way I could enjoy myself more than attacking your nation.

Well the likelihood is that either you are going to win or Zeldor is. Zeldor’s been helpful and friendly and sportsmanlike. You’ve chosen the opposite route. So obviously Zeldor is much more deserving of ultimately winning than you are.

But I'm not surrendering. As far as I'm concerned we'll play it out until the end. If/when Zeldor wants to take my territory i will fight tooth and nail over it. Sure, it would be nice if I had a decent ally or two but I'd rather lose to a sportsmanlike player than be allied with an a-hole.

Zeldor’s success in this game has little to do with Ermor’s inherent abiltites and everything to do with his social skills, a gene you were apparently born without.

Smell you later!

Maybe you should try Farmville. I think it’s more your speed.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

>> With you admitting that you cannot defeat Ermor, I believe he's the rightful winner. I'm ready to concede the game for him should he want to end this. I still would prefer if you'd fight on to actually see what happens.

I might have prevailed, to be honest. But see the smelly comment from Science above. He enjoyed himself killing Marignon, now he is going to enjoy himself killing me. Of course, he cant 'kill' me, but as in Ossa's case, I wont be able to fight both Rlyeh and Ermor effectively.
I wont give him this pleasure.

>> So, you are after all saying that the game cannot be fun if Ermor wins due he playing his nation well.

No. Even Zeldor said it here - he was surrounded by underplayed, staling nations, and then Rlyeh backstabbed his only adversary. Now you decided to turtle, and Science keeps attacking these who might fight Ermor. Its not a victory I would call 'sportsmanlike'.

>>You most certainly did not! You PM’d me exactly once ever and that was responding to questions I sent you.

I asked everyone, in the forum, many times. I also PMed you, indeed, answering your questions and telling you that we should aid Marignon and I am about to attack Ermor. Which I did. You didnt answer me and didnt attack Ermor too, making sure Marignon didnt recover from your backstab.

>> But I'm not surrendering. As far as I'm concerned we'll play it out until the end. If/when Zeldor wants to take my territory i will fight tooth and nail over it. Sure, it would be nice if I had a decent ally or two but I'd rather lose to a sportsmanlike player than be allied with an a-hole.

Yes, you are not surrendering. You are ruining this game by once again supporting an already winning side from underwater, making resistance futile. How very nice. Oh, and speaking of maneers, whining and name-calling. Please do read the previous page. I stated that I asked for help, repeatedly and in a civil maneer, to absolutely no avail. You told me that I should have 'asked somebody for help' and called me an 'a-hole'. Twice now. Go wash your mouth.


I only despaired after Isokron asked to close this game. Just when I was about to finally get a chance to fight Ermor and do something meaningful in this game.
Hehe. Nobody listened to me when I tried explaining just how much more dangerous adequately-played Ermor is than any other nation. When I despaired and lost my temper, I've got your attention at least. Of course, you still didnt understand anything. The likes of you never do.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

A somewhat neutral comment from the peanut gallery... I've been following this thread for awhile given that I've played with about half of the players here in various MP/Blitz games, and this thread is pretty notorious on IRC too.


I think there's a divergence of expectation amongst the players here, where some clearly regard the point of the game being in-game victory and only that, and that people should act in a game-optimal manner without regard to any other interests. The other party clearly includes diplomacy and meta-diplomatic actions as part of their decision process. It's not my place to assign fault or anything, but while I don't think consorting with Sauron's the smartest idea for one's own livelihood, being indignant in expectation for allies in your holier-than-thou war without any regards to diplomacy is not constructive either. From what I understand Zeldor put a decent chunk of time playing the diplomacy game, and ultimately a lot of Dom3 is that unless you play the No Diplo games. Heck, as he showed, with a good investment of time into diplomatic overtures, you can divide your enemies and even ally them despite clearly leading in the charts.

Obviously these MP games are a huge time investment, and with that builds ownership and attachment, but I think certain players may regret that their comments and behaviors will be permanently etched into the records of this forum. Take a breather, it's a game at the end of the day, no need to wade deep into the mud just to carry the battles into the community itself. :/

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Come on, let's not exaggerate the drama.

There were many weak players in the game. But they bordered everyone. Am I to blame that others did not take use of their weakness? Kuritza took a prov with sages near C'tis cap, unforted, and C'tis has lower research than I do. Pan suicided his pretender after casting a global with him, which let you easily kill him.

Why are you blaming me here? Is it my fault that previous R'lyeh player did not tell me about his agreement with Mari? that Mari did not inform new R'lyeh player properly? that new R'lyeh player was really much better player and made some use of his nation and finally killed indies? that some players got convinced by people like you that Ermor is uber and panicked [like Jomon who retreated instead of owning me with massed archers]? that Utgard did not attack me early on, when he couldn't really do much?

You did serious mistakes in your diplomacy. You limited to to Ermor and anti-Ermor camps. But it was not really that. It was either me, Mari or Man camp. You forgot that you need to convince someone to help you win. Convince someone that you winning is better than me winning. And it looks like you failed in that.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

I doubt I will regret anything, to be honest. Oh I would, were I to keep playing with these people again. But really, would you play again, fully knowing that this crap will happen again and again?

I actually care about peoples opinion about me, funny as it may sound. Usually, that is. But sometimes you just get tired of stepping on the same rake. I had enough games with a clear leader spending days charming everyone else to the point they just hand him the victory. I dont blame these people, actually. Not anymore, at least. Zeldor did a good job here, and I have zero hard feelings towards him. But newbs (and/or loonies) who buy it make me annoyed. Irrational, unreasonable people arouse some irrational anger in me. :)

Sometimes you want to play Dominions with sensible people who dont play to make others win. You wish for game companions who actually play to the end; play as in 'strive to win', not 'backstab somebody just for the fun of it, and then lose'.

Such community doesnt exist, obviously. There are no ideal people (flashnews). So I have to stop playing. My wife will be glad, to be honest. )))))
And about these who called me an *******... Or my harsh behaviour that will be 'etched into this forum'... Who cares? Some will remember me as a good player, some will remember me as a bad person. Some probably wont. But at the end of the day its just some game forum.
/shrug

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

As Kuritza does not answer/reply to what I said, I'll ask everyone, shall we continue this game or simply concede it to Ermor?

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

i'd prefer to play it out.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Declare it over.

I dont want to play against both LA Ermor and LA Rlyeh, Isokron told he doesnt want to play anymore, you said that you dont care who wins and Science-a-hole only plays to grief these who fight Ermor in this game. No point to keep playing.

Unless, of course, Science agrees to keep doing nothing (its his forte, after all) and let normal players finish this game without his random attacks. But I dont believe he will, I think you know why.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Know what?

Maybe I will be able to annoy this Science dude back, or just give a good fight in my last game. I am staying.
To the end!

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

And while we are at it... postpone hosting, Abyssia is staling.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Oh, I really doubt we can get Juffos now...

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

In Soviet Russia, Juffos gets YOU!

Down with Abyssia, then. :) The outcome is clear anyway, we are doomed.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

He extended the hosting. So let's just... drudge along this game apparently. Meh.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

I guess I will get in a turn tonight when I get home if we are really continuing then.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Hehe that was a pretty quick flip-flop you got going on there. I have to admit I feel the same way - every time I go on to this forum I feel like taking a different strategy. One morning I feel like berating you or ossa into quitting (improving my position but probably not enough to get me up to #1). The next afternoon I feel like trying to make nice and work together. One day I'm happy to jump into the drama screaming just a bit louder than the last guy. The next day I feel like its a chore and stressing me out.

Anyway, I'm sorry I called you an a-hole, Kuritza. I don't know you in real life so you probably aren't one. You said some annoying and immature things on an internet forum but, hell, who hasn't? Sometimes it seems like that is the whole point of having the internet in the first place.

So I've got some detailed ideas of how we should all proceed from here. Oh wait - there is someone at the door, let me get that first. I'll be right back!

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Ok, lets say I'm sorry too.

The less feuds IRL, the better for Karma. Today is the anniversary of our (mine and my wive's, that is) buddhist wedding, by the way, so lets commemorate it by being maneered, heh.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

ATTENTION PUNY HUMANS!

This is to inform you that SciencePro has been eaten by Shub-Niggurath. He will not be missed. The empire of R'lyeh is now under the direct control of he-who-must-not-be-named.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

The elder gods congratulate you on your futile human mating activities. It turns out that Buddhist brains taste better. Nom nom nom.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Ok, the loss of Queens was a result of Zeldor's good play.
But THIS? This is just plain dumb... auto-rout because of really low PD, I haven't seen that before, EVER in my life. You need to have at least PD 10 to auto-rout a fat SC usually.

Gosh. Its almost as stupid as Science trying to "strenghten" his hopeless position by helping Zeldor win. Cant say I understand people who have fun making the game less fun for others. But lets not start it over again.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Well seems like sciencepro thought this was a good time to backstab me despite our nap. Im retreating from your territory Zeldor, attack me if you wish but im going to spend the rest of this game (probably a rather short time) fighting rlyeh.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

mnahn' orr'e SciencePro wgah'n shogg syha'h

stell'bsna n'gha

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Kuritza:

Why did you teleport him there anyway? It looks like fate does not want you to win :P

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Oh well... I just discovered I forgot to sent my redone turn.
The one I did after decided to continue playing and putting a great efford into.

Thanks to me having submited a blank turn with "go ai" I didnt notice the next hosting was due today:/

May I ask for a rollback :doh: ;) ?

If you say no I'm ok with it, given the progress of this game, but if everyone would agree I'd happily continue... bah :(

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

OH yeah, sure. I just wondered what's with all that call of the wind spam :P

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Yes, a rollback pretty please )))))
I'd really send Queens there again had we rolled back THAT turn (deserved loss is a deserved loss), but this dumb auto-rout because of low PD......... mweh.
Thought I'm more clever like that. :)

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Admin?

I'm online again from around 2 gmt on today - if we could just rollback and I submit my altered turn...

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Kuritza:

Of course no changing of turns. And if someone forges artifacts otherwise he'd not, he sends them where they should be :P Etc, etc.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Zeldor, shoo. You've got a TWO turns rollback, which counted as a free reckon on Ossa's armies :) Heck, you even have a free Dreams of Rlyeh support now, which I cant do anything against. ))) So in all honesty, you shouldnt object to a single change now.

As I said, the only thing I will ever change will be this devil. This whole thing was absolutely dumb anyway, you have to agree on this. Or dont rollback at all - I can cope with this loss, as annoying as it is. :)

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Sure, but if the rollback happens it's just to let Marignon still play and not be set AI, not to correct stupid mistakes [if you want to correct that, I'd want to fix one big battle I lost and I didn't know would happen, and so on].

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Just as before the rollbacks happened because you made a mistake, and it was corrected, even though some of us disagreed, cough.
So... come on. :)

And it wasnt even exactly a mistake on my behalf. This is the very first time I see a Devil rout because PD of, like, 3-4 was killed. Usually they ignore PD that low.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

One rollback I can live with, but wouldn't prefer any more.

Kuritza, you do know about the hp limit autorout, right?

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Why did you pick smth so powerful to defend a province of minor importance anyway? I could not use much to attack it, 25 PD would have killed my attacking force alone. Probably 15-20 too.

And I think everyone lived through frustrating moments like that. I lost so many Golems to turn50 limit that I stopped to summon them for a while. Or other extremely stupid things [communion exploding itself with phoenix pyre against routing enemy, or unscripted vortex of returning when defending VP].

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Because I had to make the turn in a big, big hurry, like 30 minutes, after almost a 48-hours travel. If I had some time to really consider the situation, of course I would abandon that stupid province. :)

By the way - no, you seem to overestimate my mighty PD and underestimate your endless hordes. My PD doesnt stand a a single chance against your chaff.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

You overestimate my chaff's ability to deal any damage to heavily armored troops [Marignon's Royal Guards were totally owning me and I throw hundreds on his few without result].

I was doing my turn in a hurry too - like one hour before hosting. With some unsatisfactory results.

So either a rollback with only Marignon submitting modified turn file or no rollback at all. I personally have no profit in Marignon not being AI [rather contrary, but I have existence of any AIs in the game].

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Did you see ANY armored troops in my PD? ^^

Anyway, I also dont care if Marignon is AI or not, he wont change much now. Actually, for the sake of game balance it would be BETTER if *some* players will go AI now instead of doing some random crap. :)
And as I said, no rollback is fine with me too, I know I cant win now anyway, so some stupid losses to a stupid flaw in the rules (you know, looking at the 'pd 3' its hard to guess it will be enough HP to rout a Devil) dont really matter. Question is 'when' we lose, not 'if'.

But after your rollbacks, I didnt think you will object against a real rollback so strongly. I hope host will disregard your objections as he disregarded mine and Ossa's back then. :)

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

We are all just stating our opinions here of course :) It's up to Juffos to decide and give us orders.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Zeldor was given some mercy, others will be given too.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Yay!

Now, it will be funny if freshly generated turn will be worse than this one, which is possible :) But - heck - at least it will be funny, eh?

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

The elder gods wish to inform you that it makes no difference if you rollback dozens of turns or roll them ahead or place them in a loop.

We exist in all times and all places.

We laugh at the limitation of your puny brains. Only perceiving one moment and then the next and so on. Pitiable! Of all the billions of moments in your life you could be experiencing ALL of them simultaneously. And all the billions of moments in the lives of all the other living things on Earth and of all the other billions of inhabited planets in your galaxy and the other billions of galaxies in your universe and all the billions of universes in the multiverse and of all the billions of multiverses and so on.

Ah its no use explaining. Words fail. Only when you are one with the void will you understand.

As you prepare for the inevitable, enjoy this video clip:

http://www.movieweb.com/video/HUOpFTOTCxmqSX

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

The video cannot be viewed in your region. Not so omnipotent now, are you!?

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

BTW, why are people submitting revised turns? Wasn't it supposed to be rollback just for Marignon?

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

The dark ones curse Hulu for hoarding their silly video clips for only those in the United States! A Spectral Hunter has been dispatched to Hulu headquarters in Los Angeles, California to deal with the problem.

We offer this music video as a substitute:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb9By-lODgk

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Everyone can resubmit their turns. Think of it as a global mulligan. You are allowed to complain as much as you would like to.

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

Gof’nn ah-“complaining” ilyaa wgah'n ebumna n'ghft syha'h

Re: Setsumi - Come for the game, stay for the drama!
 

BTW, why did we do a rollback, when Marignon is still AI?

Another question - why not abck to 72h hosting?

And another thing - special announcement from Ermor coming soon.