Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

I was discussing this with Xanatos via PM. I guess I keep a closer eye on the forums than some (having begun my dominions career as a lurker here), and did nothing with the turns that we rolled back on. He gets the turn and does it, which should not be a problem. The results of our battles have not changed, but some details did, not because of a bug, just random randomness. One of his big Niefel Jarls was killed on the turn we first rolled back. In the do-over, he retreated and survived. Xanatos had done the next turn already before realising we were rolling back and had orders in his .2h file saved. If it had happened the other way around and the Jarl survived the first and died the second, there would have been orders in his .2h file for a dead unit, and may have crashed then.

I really am new to this stuff, but maybe if we can all agree to move our existing .trn and .2h files to a new folder (emptying the davidandgoliath folder completely), then wait for llamaserver to send out the turn we roll back to, and all of us go on from there, we might be OK?

Before we do that though, we need to think about whether we need to roll back 1 :sick: or 2 turns :puke:

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

If I understand this correctly, and I might not, moving/deleting our existing .trn and .2h files should have no effect on this problem. A .2h file mismatch can cause a crash, but shouldn't cause unit id weirdness in the next turn.
OTOH, doing so can't hurt and it might help, so if we're going to rollback we might as well try it.

I'm about 95% sure we can't roll back 2 turns.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

What we need now is a delay in the next turn due or Llamaserver will play the next turn.

We can send an email to the Llama Admin an ask advice.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

I am the emergency Admin for D+G...I am going to set it back 24 hours until someone takes control and has a definitive plan.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Can we turn off the timer until we get that plan?

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Rolling back the turn is not enough? It seems easy and Llama has an option to do that. Or the problem is that is not so easy and there are other complications? It's the first time I see this problem so sorry if my questions bother you.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Guys,

Here is the problem, if we turn the timer 'off' or we keep vacillating on this, we are going to start losing players OR they will not see when we are starting and THEY will stale the next time and we will NEVER get this going.

thejeff is probably the most knowledgeable on this and I for one trust his judgement on what we should do.

IF we want to redo the turn agian then so be it, but we have to address the 2 nations that have already turned the NEW redone turn in. So they will have to delete the 2h files or whatever it is we do and go from there.

Its my expieriance that the longer we wait on this the more people will lose interest and drift away.

So, whatever it is you want to do, lets do it by tomorrow evening...Please.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

+ 1

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Just tuning in here as my dismal position in this game has lessened my interest.... although I have my capital again albeit the former occupant removed some of the important buildings :mad: I don't have much knowledge about rollbacks but something seems seriously broken about the *feature*. Anyway, I'm fine how ever it gets resolved and will continue to make life harder for my enemies and easier for my friends.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

--excerpted from Thus Spake Puppet: Divine Servant of Vano

:doh:

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Well, if I'm being touted as the expert here, I'd say do the rollback.
There's two things we could try. And it may be worth doing both if problems persist.

First, simply rollback and try to rehost. We know only Ermor and Fomoria have submitted turns and no one staled, so have them and only them submit new turns. Then host and hope all the problems go away. That has the virtue of being simple.

If they don't, we can roll back again and have every one submit new turns. In this case, everyone should delete any .2h file they have and redo the turn from scratch. If there is something weird from the previous rollback causing these problems this may get rid of it.

It may be easier to go straight to that, to avoid having to do extra rollbacks. No guarantees either will work, though.

Whichever, use llamaserver to send an email to everyone telling them what you expect them to do.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

OK Folks!!!

Lets all check in and get on the same page and lets do this.

If you don't understand what he is saying, just ask and we will get you fixed up.

C'mon and lets get this thing GOING!!!!:up:

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

I have yet to find a player to take my spot. Any suggestions?

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Aren't we going already? The rollback has already happened as far as I know? Don't make this any more confusing as it already is! ;)

I just wanted to point out that the game thinks Pangaea and Caelum may be cheating because of some unexpected increase in wealth. I am not sure what did this, but as me being Caelum I can ASSURE you all that I am NOT cheating. It must have got something to do with the rollback or something.

If some feel this game has derailed beyond repair we'll forfeit.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

I've seen these messages a lot of times and don't mean you're cheating, maybe you've had a couple of very good events, for example :)

I don't know if this issue with the IDs is affecting your game or not, but for me has been a very bad one "event" because I've lost a very important unit and all its magical items (20-30 gems).

A mess.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Hi- i thought i would advertise here. I got a good position with sauromatia in CASUAL EA FOR BUSY SCHEDULES which is mostly a newbie game too. first in research, second in gems and territory... carving up the enemy (helheim) with big stacks and got some nice SCs coming up too...

Please check out that thread... its a SUPER fun game and the position is getting really interesting.... it would be a shame to AI.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Yesterday, I posted a request for advice on rollbacks in the multiplayer thread. What comes through most clearly is that it should be avoided at all costs. I'm not sure we have that luxury any more. One veteran player kindly gave us four options, though. Unfortunately three of those options were don't do it! :re:

The fourth option included deleting all .2h files.

We are either going to put our heads down and bull forward hoping no future unit or item strangeness occurs, or we are rolling back. If we roll back, I think we should all delete (or move to a backup folder) all files in the davidandgoliath folder. As for Agusti's unit and items - is there any way you could unequip and get the items to your lab this turn? I know that is like changing orders, but if the unit is doomed for no good reason, maybe the items can still be saved.

Really just thinking out loud. Please, we need to hear from more players on this.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

how do we get the new .trn file?

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Ossa is going to take over for me as Helheim in this game.
Yskonyn: are you still admin? Can you set Helheim to accept turns from an e-mail i will send you via PM (its ossa's). its one of the admin option under the game settings.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Xanatos: There is no new .trn file. We're still on hold. I'm not sure why.
We'll need to roll back or postpone again soon.

Grudge? Yskonyn? What's the plan?

Farewell Immaculate!
And welcome aboard, Ossa. You come at a most confusing time.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Hello Ossa.

This game's been a lot of fun so far. We'll be going again soon.

Right?

right?...

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

I want the game to continue as it seems to have the most even fighting I have seen in many games...

I am somewhat computer challenged so whatever you guys want to do, just tell me how to do it and lets get it done, even if we screw it up its better than NO movement )in my opinion).

Sooooooooo, thejeff, your in charge as far as I am concerned.

Tell us what to do and we will do it and if it works fine..if it doesn't we will figure it out from there.:up:

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

I can assure you that all the magical items will be put in the laboratory and I'll wait some turns before summoning my units. I don't want to spend gems and not get what I was expecting.

Thank you for the tip :)

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Alright then. No promises it'll work.

Roll us back.

Then send an email to everyone (There's an option on the admin page.) telling them:
1) Delete the .2h file before opening the turn.
2) Redo the turn from scratch
3) Send it in
4) Pray that it works.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Are we trying to recreate the previous turn? Should I overwrite the turn llamaserver has stored, or let it re-host with the old turn?

I feel like we should redo the turn to make this work, but I don't think I remember exactly what I did. It'll have to be an approximation.

And I really think all of us need to delete those .2h files.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

less than 4 hours to hosting

I'm going to bed.

I'll be disappointed if I find I staled overnight.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Hello guys;)

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Hi Ossa, welcome! I have put you in command of Helheim so any and all turn will be dropped in your email box from now on.

One thing that I am just plain confused about at this point is the state of our game.
We already rolled back once before X-Mas. Then during X-Mas there were some problems and some countries staled. We rolled back a second time. What's the deal with talking about ANOTHER rollback at this point? Aren't we all where we are supposed to be?
Doesn't everyone have sent their 29th turn in to the server yet?

Please enlighten me, because I really do not understand what the problem is now.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

The problem is that the game is now a mess, units with the wrong ID, magical items disappearing, units losing his magical paths, more units disappearing without any explanation, etc.

Someone sent a wrong turn with a wrong file or the previous rollbacks "broke" something.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Oh then let's all delete our current turn files on your PC's. We will rollback as thejeff suggested and start fresh with those files send by Llama, although I am not too sure this will cure the problems, as we already did a rollback before which might have caused the game to go tits up.

So EVERYONE delete your current files and wait for the new Llamaserver round of turns it will send and use that turn to process a new turn.
If this doesn't work then the game is broken beyond repair and we will have to forfeit unfortunately as I understand it.

My sincere appologies for the troubles. It looked like a great game and it would be a pitty to have to forfeit.
Expect a new turn in a few mins.

Please note that I do understand that if you're in a battle a rollback might cause a different output or other uncomfortable things while at war, but please understand this is a decisive action to try to repair the game so we can continue normally with the following turns.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Ossa- now that the game thinks you are the helheim player, you can request a turn resend yourself (its under admin options). Yskonyn- you CAN resend a turn to a single player without it going out to all players.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

It doesn't matter as we are rolling back. So Ossa, you don't have to do anything. You will get a turn sent by the server automatically.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Thank you very much Yskonyn for hosting such a fun game. i wish i could have stayed to play this out. i had some interesting ideas that i haven't seen on these forums. i told ossa about them- maybe he will have a chance to implement them...

anyway, i hope the problems all get ironed out and you all have a great time.

Thanks also to ossa for stepping up.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

I understand deleting the .2h file and replacing it with the new llama file, what about the .trn file?

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

The new llama file is the .trn file. You need to delete the .2h and replace the existing .trn with the .trn from the llamaserver.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Old files deleted, turn redone from the trn sent by the llamaserver and sent :)

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

ok that was a dumb question nm, lol

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

ok my turns good.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

I'm in

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

It seems we're only waiting on Caelum. Yskonen - everything OK?

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Yes sorry, the turn has come through, but I seem to be missing one whole army.
Maybe it got wiped out by a battle before but I don't recall one.
Anyway let's continue and hope we wont see any more anomalies. :)

Imma, glad you liked it. Sad to see you go, though. :)

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Now the turn seems ok, nothing weird.

I hope all we can play without any more problems.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Well for me, instead of retaking my capital Niefleheim is sieging Ulm (his ally).

--Thus Spake....

TNG, Arco, Pan, and if possible my ally C'tis have an obligation!

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Nothing wrong with troop count, just with me. I still have all 30 of 'em, but I guess this time I forgot to tell them to break the damn siege! :doh:

Coming out this turn, I hope. (Why try to mask it at this point?)

And boy, could I have put that good luck 600 gold to use! Oh well, moving for'rd then. :cool:

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Naw, he's just passing through... stopped by for a dash of tea.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Bad news, people. I had hoped my tour of duty abroad was over, but I have been called to Denmark once again for 5 days today. I already fly out tomorrow morning and will be back on the 14th.
I have no access to Dominions in the mean time unfortunately.
It hampers our game, just as we were getting ahead full steam again, I am sorry.
I would like to postpone the game until then as I have no time to find a sub.

If people want to bail out because of this and our previous problems, please discuss this with Grudge.
Grudge would you take care of things once again, please?
I have already set the game on hold in Llama.

Sorry guys, but I did not expect this either.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Would you object to us looking for a sub?

I don't know if you're at war or have other plans you don't want a uninformed sub to mess up.

We may have trouble finding one anyway.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Guys....We have fought off a lot of adversity in this game with roll backs, extensions and the like.

NO ONE has quit, we have about 4 wars going on and they are taking different paths every turn.

This has been One of the best games I have ever played in and I salute ALL of you...The new, not so new, and the wily 'ol' vets.

It would be a shame to quit now. A temp sub would be great until you got back, but that seems out of the question. The way I see it we have 2 options (and I have NOT looked at the scores so I may be completely off base).

You can go AI or we can wait until he gets back...for myself, we are having severe winter storms and my Internet connection is going on and off. But I can get thru that.

Its 5 days do we want to wait and if he can't get it together them we go to one of the other options...OR do we decide now.

Lets have some input (and I don't want to hear we need to bag this game)...

Thanks guys:up:

And yes I will fill in as admin till you get back.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

We're on turn 29. Turn 28 first came out on 12/29. 10 days/turn seems like the pace we've been on. :smirk:

I'm not happy about a delay, but I'll be here when he gets back.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Stagger Lee: Yeah but we've had all these turns multiple times, so that should bring the average down. :)

Waiting is proabbly the best thing, though I hate to say it.
These things happen. It's only a week.

I do encourage everyone to get their turns in early anyway. That way you don't have to remember to get back to it, you get the pleasant surprise of a turn in your mailbox.