Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I've designed the whole sci-fi crossover mod thinking in option "A". It'd be nice if you can use the same racial traits numbers to make merging later easier.

7 - Babylon tech (general available to all)
8 - Centauri Tech
9 - Earth Tech
10 - Lnaw Tech
11 - Minbari Tech
12 - Narn Tech
13 - Shadow Tech
14 - Vorlon Tech
(if you need some other racial trait you have to use 33, 34, ect.)

I was thinking that there is a limited mid point that can be interesting:
If you give a tech area a race exclusive requisit, but don't add it the racial number, only those who have the racial trait can start to research it, but others can gain it by analyzing captured ships or using intel.
In a full tech start all will have it.
It would be nice to have a few "capturable" race-exclusive tech areas, something that is not too alien to another race or sci-fi.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I actually added a bunch of racial techs with all the races in mind. Here is what I had so far:

20 - Abbai (LNaW)
21 - Belt Alliance
22 - Brakiri (LNaW)
23 - Cascor *
24 - Centauri
25 - Dilgar
26 - Drahk
27 - Drazi (LNaW)
28 - Earth Alliance
29 - Gaim
30 - Grom
31 - Hurr
32 - Hyach
33 - Ipsha
34 - Kirishiac Lords (Ancient)
35 - Llort
36 - Lumati *
37 - Markab
38 - Minbari
39 - Moradi *
40 - Narn
41 - Orieni
42 - Pakmara (LNaW)
43 - Raiders
44 - Shadow
45 - Streib
46 - Third Space Aliens * (Ancient)
47 - Torata
48 - Torvalus (Ancient)
49 - Vorlon (Ancient)
50 - Vree (LNaW)
51 - Yolu *
52 - Descari

Right now only the ones without the * are in use for weapons or other components in the current merge file. Races with a LNaW after them will be setup as a choice for the LNaW emps, so you could play LNaW focusing on Drazi, Abbai, Brakiri, etc. until they are split into their own catagory. Ancient denotes an Ancient race.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Ok I'll have to re-number all tech areas.
Why start from 20? I don't have enought room to place all others before.

BTW merging would be easier if I can merge the Excel files, so I can change family numbers, ect.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Remember the 'dual tech requirement' effect. If a component requires both a 'generic' tech and a racial restricted tech, it can be captured by a race that does not have the racial ability, they just can't research that tech any further once they have it. This might be a good thing to do with the 'Ancient' techs. It would then be possible for the younger races to capture or be given technology from the 'First Ones'...

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I had just arbitrarily started at 20 figuring other mods wouldn't have more than 15. I had done the same with the components and other files, to leave space for the other mods http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

That being said, don't worry about redoing all you stuff, I will just renumber mine to go from 50 - up (just add 30 to the current #'s) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

To try to make life easier - and to cut down on the number of files I'm uploading to this site, I'm going to try to use a geocities site for future updates and just post the URLs.

Everything to date can be downloaded piecemeal at:

B5Mod Page

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I had posted this some time ago, but didn't get a reply. What do you think about these sizes?
Sizes & Tonnage

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I was thinking of sticking to the generic SE IV sizes, to avoid having to make each race a seperate ship list (though with the excel sheet a merge would be easier). The other prob is though the sizes are good indicators of weight/tonnage, it doesn't really reflect size well. EG: The Drazi Sky Serpent is bigger than a T-Bolt. Plus, there are dozens of other ships from the B5 Wars game that would need hull sizes - though maybe that would be the way to go, just make each race's hull class for their race alone!

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

That's what I was thinking about.
I know my list is very incomplete and many sizes would need to be added.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Ok, here is what I'm planning on doing for the weapon techs:

Each broad weapon area will have a tech (eg: Laser Weapons)

Then each race will have weapons in different 'power' classes (eg: light, medium, heavy, mega, ultra)

There will also be some specific types (eg: point-defense, rapid fire)

Finally, there will be advanced broad areas for races specializing in an area (eg: Advanced Laser Weapons)


So, for example: Combat Laser will require : Advanced Laser Weapons - Centauri (prereq Laser Weapons) & Medium Weapons - Centauri. An Interceptor Mk I will require: Particle Weapons, Point-Defence Weapons, Light Weapons - EA.


This will force a variety of techs to be researched to open up new weapons - and it will start races in their 'prefered' weapon tech areas. Also, this will allow techs to be captured and researched from that point on. Finally, this let me have many weapons with the same tech levels, yet keep them somewhat racially seperated.

I'm working on plugging in all the techs now, and setting up the families for the AI. With any luck (if I don't do too much OT this week), I should have something this weekend.

Once the weapons are done, we will then have Ships/Bases/Sats/Mines/Fighters almost complete - just needing armor and some extra components (racial specific & B5 specific stuff). I'm reworking the troops and infantry in between weapon work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif So, we are almost done!

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Keep up the good work! B5 rules.

Question on jumpgates. Is this something the computer AI will use too?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I guess the AI might be able to use it, but then how do you tell it to self destruct it after opening the gate. I made it pretty expensive to build a gate - since it seemed to be a rare event in the show. I also included a few events that can create/close random gates just like wormholes.

The images for the torp weapons are done (including the Narn E Mine) and I am about 75% done with the weapon Techs. Armor pics have also been added. With any luck, I should be posting updates this weekend for new component pics and data files http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

"I also included a few events that can create/close random gates just like wormholes."

How are those described? Civilian construction/industrial accident?

PS: Checking the latest data files on the B5 mod site;
In Tech area, fission research through hyperspace tap research.
Those would probably sound better as "Fission Utilization" etc. Just because its an applied tech, and we aren't researching how to research fission reactions http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .
A simple search-replace idea.

"Universal cure for most plagues, more advanced than any medical science known." You won't be able to see the description until you discover this ruins tech, so the description should probably read "more advanced than any other medical science known."


Scanning the components, I noted some possibly problematic components, WRT armor. Armor has 10/25/50 hitpoints at the base level, increasing only a little bit in sheer strength as tech improves.

"Name := External Launch Catapult II
Description := External storage and launching catapult designed with Drazi Super Heavy fighters in mind. Armor has been added to the mount making it less vulnerable."
Tonnage Structure := 30/35
This may be too low, if you really want them to be "external", then they should be up near 50.


Name := Molecular Slicer Beam V
Tonnage Structure := 104
Name := Spinal Laser III
Tonnage Structure := 81
These two are quite high, although if that slicer beam is the shadow slicer beam, then the advanced armors may be sufficient to give it reasonable protection. Those spinal lasers are going to be quite vulnerable, though that may be what you intended.

PPS: Working on armor right now...

[ 22 February 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Taking much longer than expected, but
CANADA wins GOLD! Yay!

Techareas for basic armor
Full Structural Supports components

I'm setting it up so that armor research splits into three areas (for a 3D matrix of components http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )
Armor Physics - constructing stronger armor.
Armor Manufacturing - reducing cost of each armor plate
Armor Engineering - Allows heavier armors (light-&gt;medium-&gt;heavy, more absorb%)

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

SJ:

Excellent to hear from you and congrats on your Canadian Gold (and again on narrowly beating our chick hockey team).

The descriptions for the new/dead warp points follow the B5 universe. They announce that a new signal has been detected in hyperspace and a few turns later the beacon becomes active on an ancient gate that had been deactivated. The other one has a failure in the jump gate system which causes a catastrophic collapse (say that ten times fast).

I like the "Utilization" idea, will change as I add the other techs - but hey, at least fission and fusion are spelled right http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Good call on the Universal Cure as well. You did notice that all the other plagues and med bays stop at level 4 now? Even the event plague will only go to 4.

I expected some issues with the components - since I wasn't sure what the values were going to be for sure.

The external launch cat II should actually be below 50 - to help represent the fact it is armored - less likely to be hit, correct? While the Cat I should be 50 as you said. The spinal laser should be pretty vulnerable - as it runs the length of the ship, giving a huge oppotunity to be damaged. The slicer beam should probably be lowered in struc though.

Just d/l'd the armor - can't wait to look at them later tonight.

I will send you the weapons (and everyone else who is interested) this weekend to check against the armors if you like.

Finally, do I need to add the structural stuff (the empty hexes) to the image mod?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Actaully, would it be better if I set all weapons in each class/size to the same struct ton?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

The hitpoints should be mostly based on
- depth in hull
- component size

With two weapon Versions, the same size, the mature-tech one should probably be the same, or very slightly weaker (harder to hit)

Prototypes can be given more hitpoints to reflect the fact that they are easier to destroy.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Just to make sure I am following the armor struct points:

Things that are externally mounted should be around 50+

Things that are easy to knock out (do to size and complexity) should also be 50+

Most weapons should fall between 15 and 50 - with smaller and more sturdy weapons on the lower end and with easily damaged weapons on the upper scale.

By default a Proto-Type should be a little higher and an Advanced-Type should be a little lower (guessing that it doesn't transend an armor level 10/25/50).

Most internal components (sensors, crew, etc.) should be 5-15 with the safest components on the low end.

Engines should be on the higher end closer to 50, while Reactors should be more around the 10-25 range.

Is all this correct?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Yep. Except for the "transend an armor level 10/25/50" idea...
The armor protection % is quite fuzzy, since we still have somewhat random hit calculation. The low hitpoints of the light armor is partially made up for by the fact that there are so very many of them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

It is probably best to view the chance to be hit as a smoothish curve from 1 to 100+ hitpoints. Upgrading armor from light to heavy bumps up the absorb %, but not by an overwhelming amount.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Want to make sure I got this, is an item with 50 adu more/less likely to be hit than an object with 25?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

A heavy armor with 50 hitpoints is more likely to be hit than a light armor with 10 hitpoints.
What is not known, is by how much, or what happens when you compare 1 50Hp component against 5 10Hp components.

Higher hitpoints act more like armor, but volume does as well.
Something like comparing a bullet proof vest to 25 people trying to jump in front of bullets for you.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Maybe it works as something based on overall structure / component structure.


So a 50adu component on a 200kt ship would be hit 25% of the time and a 10adu component would be hit 5% of the time.

I also gave the exterior components the armor ability so they would be hit first no matter what (in theory).

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Its possible. Armor works in the opposite way, however, with lower hitpoints being targetted first, so there's precedent for Aaron using non-trivial hit choosing routines. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

i'd love to get an official explanation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Val: Me too.

Techareas for basic armor
Full Structural Supports components
Light Armor components
Midrange Armor components
Heavy Armor components

I've left the images in the original component range for now, its just a simple search-replace.

The final images will be: (???, #723, #724, #725).
(The structural supports being unknown at the moment.)

PS: the tip-top inert armor (Heavy Class 6) gives a total of 75 hitpoints.

EDIT: added mid armor.
EDIT: added heavy armor.

[ 23 February 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Okay, so I've been lurking here for quite some time, having nothing meaningful to add... but I've become somewhat confused in the meantime. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

My question is, which affects the probability of a component being damaged (ignoring armour effects for a moment)? An increase in the "Tonnage Space Taken" value or an increase in the "Tonnage Structure" value? All of a sudden the term component's ADU is popping up, and I'm just a little confused.

Thanks for any explaination
jimbob

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

As the components are numbered/lettered 1-6, are 6A-F considered equiv to ancient level? Or, are these armors just the basic armor and there are other varieties (Centauri/Minbari/Shadow/Vorlon)?

Also, does this mean you are not doing Primary/Secondary and then 3 levels of armor?

[ 24 February 2002: Message edited by: Val ]</p>

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Update: Heavy Armor prices have been corrected.


Primary/Additional is only used for those types of armor that have special abilities, such as the shadow armor.

This basic, inert stuff has no abilities, and thus dosen't need to distinguish primary/additional.

The Racial armors are not included yet.


Jimbob:
The higher a component's Tonnage Structure, the more likely to be hit.

The term "ADU" stands for Arbitrary Damage Unit.
Which is a better unit for measuring hitpoints than KiloTons.

[ 24 February 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Got it. Thanks for the clarification. I'll add all this (with the updated pic #'s) to the data files and post on Sunday sometime with some other new stuff.

Thanks for all the hard work, can't wait to try it out later tonight!!

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Soul Hunters

Just in case you weren't paying attention, Oleg just posted an almost complete Soul Hunter shipset.

Check it out and let him know what you think http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'll add it to our ever growing mod once it is done.

I spent some time today making all the Techs, now descriptions for the weapons.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

To the Vehicle size designer:
You've got a lot of hull sizes that look to be straight from the NeoShipset standard, yet the images are limited to original SE4 ones.
Now that I've got the NeoShipsetBuilder out, those can be changed.

I've typed up the default NeoBuilder Alternates list in an importable form. You can make any changes you feel would be appropriate for B5.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Thanks SJ, I'll bring that in line with everything else http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Also, in talking to Oleg about the Soul Hunters (aka Shag'Toth) I had mentioned that I was interested in creating some race specific facilities for all the races - as I have already given each major (and many minor) race a race # in the TechAreas. Right now this is only impacting weapons that each race can initially research, it may also be used for the armors/shields that races can research. There are some specific components for some race's ships (eg: Living CPU for Shadows), but I would like to have more available to each race. So I am looking for some good suggestions. I would really like to do something with the Minbari Castes and Centauri Houses for example.

Finally, a question for SJ:
I have tried to restrict it so you can only choose one race in the advanced traits, but it doesn't seem to be working correctly. Is there a limit to the number of restricted items or something else I am missing?

Sample:

Name := Abbai Race
Description := Gains access to the Abbai Racial Technology Tree.
Pic Num := 0
General Type := Advantage
Cost := 0
Trait Type := Tech Area
Value 1 := 50
Value 2 := 0
Required Trait 1 := None
Required Trait 2 := None
Required Trait 3 := None
Restricted Trait 1 := Belt Alliance Race
Restricted Trait 2 := Brakiri Race
Restricted Trait 3 := Cascor Race
Restricted Trait 4 := Centauri Race
Restricted Trait 5 := Dilgar Race
Restricted Trait 6 := Drahk Race
Restricted Trait 7 := Drazi Race
Restricted Trait 8 := Earth Alliance Race
Restricted Trait 9 := Gaim Race
Restricted Trait 10 := Grom Race
Restricted Trait 11 := Hurr Race
Restricted Trait 12 := Hyach Race
Restricted Trait 13 := Ipsha Race
Restricted Trait 14 := Kirishiac Lords Race
Restricted Trait 15 := Llort Race
Restricted Trait 16 := Lumati Race
Restricted Trait 17 := Markab Race
Restricted Trait 18 := Minbari Race
Restricted Trait 19 := Moradi Race
Restricted Trait 20 := Narn Race
Restricted Trait 21 := Orieni Race
Restricted Trait 22 := Pakmara Race
Restricted Trait 23 := Raiders Race
Restricted Trait 24 := Shadow Race
Restricted Trait 25 := Streib Race
Restricted Trait 26 := Third Space Aliens Race
Restricted Trait 27 := Torata Race
Restricted Trait 28 := Torvalus Race
Restricted Trait 29 := Vorlon Race
Restricted Trait 30 := Vree Race
Restricted Trait 31 := Yolu Race
Restricted Trait 32 := Descari Race
Restricted Trait 33 := ShagToth Race

[ 26 February 2002: Message edited by: Val ]</p>

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Restricted traits just don't work yet. You have to rely on the honour system and/or game host moderation.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

The only unique Shag'Toth weapon I am aware of is the "Inferno shield" It allows to burn through enemy ship hull. Might be modded as some kind of uber-powerfull boarding weapon.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

SJ:
Darn, was hoping that solved the issue of choosing too many races! Ah well. Could I increase the cost and have the trait adjust the stats to what we think should be base? Then I could just make it equal that cost.

Oleg:
I'll see if anything else is posted anywhere, and I'll work on the Inferno Shield.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Found something y'all might enjoy:

B5 Mod Listing

Hallo zu unseren Österreicher und Deutschen freunden und zu besuchern http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ 26 February 2002: Message edited by: Val ]</p>

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Wow this is getting big.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I'm going to get a different homepage, not enough data transfer on this one!

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Dropping the background image would help, too; its quite large.

I wouldn't mind hosting a mirror, either.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Val:
Might I suggest that you go with Spaceports.com? They are the best free web host that I have ever seen. Lots of nifty features, and the bandwidth limits are 500 MB/day or 5 GB/month.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

IF:

Could you send me info on SpacePorts?

SJ:

A mirror would be nice, gives people more options on where to go http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Yeah, working on a different background, I want to do a wiremesh schematic of the station - something that looks like a blueprint. Anyone got anything?

Also, will post the new data files and the Shag'Toth on the site later today if I get a chance - today is shaping up to be pretty busy!

Finally:

I have the updated all the weapons, worked up their families/Groups, added correct picture numbers (there are still about 29 blanks for weapons I am working on), added some sounds, added all technologies required and fixed some typos. Also, you may notice some of the tech area req have a *, 910 or multiple racial names, those are just reminders for me that that particular weapon is unique to more than one race or that only the specified race can achieve the advanced Version of the weapon (910). I still need to make the costs, add a column for 3rd Tech required (where needed), fix the special abilities and get the rest of the sound bytes (anyone have any more weapon sounds in their personal collections?).

I also genned it out so you can see the full sample list of weapons http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Weapons.zip

I'm going to use the formula IF and SJ talked about earlier to figure costs out.

Any/all suggestions sought and welcomed!!!!

Hope you enjoy the preview.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I think the Soul Hunters would be better off as a Nuetral race. They really didn't have that major of a roll in the B5 Universe.

Question on Energy Mines. Aren't they more of a PDF type weapon then ship-to-ship? Their description is a torpedo with a high vield warhead to distroy incoming fighters. Not useable at close range.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I had seen the Soul Hunters as Neutral as well, but I would hate to waste a complete shipset http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif If Oleg wants, gear the AI towards Neutral and we can put it there.

The Energy Mines are usuable against pretty much any ship - in particular I remember the Narn G'Quans firing them at 2 incoming Shadow Cruisers. I would prefer for them to be an area of effect weapon (like in the show), but as of yet that is not an option. Also, as of yet I don't know any way to make a limit on an inside range (can't fire within # hexes). For PDF the Narn have some particle weapons and the super deadly to fighters Pulsar Mine (which might be what you're talking about - though it is short range). If you like I could make a PDF Version of the EMine for the Narn as well.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

SE4 does work if you give a weapon
"damage at range := 0 0 0 0 0 500 250 125 75 38 19 10 5 2 1 0 0 0 0 0"

You won't be able to fire until you get 6 squares away.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Very cool SJ - I can definately use that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I had figured it would stop at the 0s...

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

B5 Page

Includes all SJ armor/struct work.

v1.49.20 Data files posted. Will post 1.49.20 Components/Pics/Sounds and update later or tomorrow.

Last 3 Additions/Changes:

1.46.20 - Added pics to Components for Gravitic, ElectroMagnetic, Torpedo and Anti-Matter Weapons. Renamed Engine Research techs to Utilization Techs. Added SJs Armor/Structural Support Techs and Components. Renumbered Races for compatability with Sci-Fi Crossover Mod. Added Weapon Techs for all Races (with room for future expansion of weapons in all races listed). Added Vorlon/Shadow Assisted Techs. Changed existing families and added all the new weapon families. Added some sounds.

1.49.19 - Changed Supply Bay to Supply Depot (increased size) and made base only.

1.49.18 - Upped Fighter Tech - 6. Added other racial techs (All). Added Cobra Bays (EA), External Fighter Rails, Launch Catapults (Drazi), Troop Bays (armored cargo bay, holds less) & External Cargo Bays. Also, changed Fighter Bays (I - VI) and Cargo (I-III).

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>1.49.19 - Changed Supply Bay to Supply Depot (increased size) and made base only. <hr></blockquote>Ummm, may I ask what the point of that is? "Bases" have infinite supplies already, so adding a few thousand more dosen't make a difference.

Unless, of course, you are planning to make Bases out of "Ships" with zero max engines...

[ 27 February 2002: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]</p>

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I had intended to do something along those lines - to make a sort of "refueling" base or ship - I had actually forgotten about finishing that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

When you convert bases into zero-movement ships, be sure to eliminate emergency propulsion components.

... At least emergency propulsion components that don't have any standard movement...

How about the ability to overload your engines, by making the larger sizes give 1 emergency movement point?
You blow up your engine, but get an extra bit of speed out of it before it dies.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Both good ideas http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif What would happen if you did that to a ship with 2 Large Engines though?