Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Think Perseus.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

that's not a kraken!

I think the more appropriate mental image is 'think hentai'.

That said, the 'new' kraken is strictly worse than the old one (D2 or S2 Krakens could be awesome).

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

I had this in mind when I made the innuendo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dre...erman%27s_Wife

It's the only thing I can think of that connects a kraken with virgins, thematic indeed!

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
 

I think there maybe a small glitch in your mod - it still says "version 1.04" instead of 1.1.

Is it ok if I correct it manualy in .dm file on my computer? (I know nothing about Dom3 modding, so sorry for a silly question)

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

So that's where it gets thematic? Now what does that tell us about our dear llamabeast?

Anyway, does it work to give the kraken slaves and end your script with rejuvenation under water? In that case the blood ain't that bad. Or as a means to join a reverse communion. How about a few krakens reverse buffed by a starspawn or king of the deep?

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

The more appropriate response would be "think AD&D". There, based on some mentions of "Kraken cults" in Cthulhu mythos, krakens were encouraging worship of themselves and accepting blood sacrifices to themselves. As they were supposed to be clever beings, they must have had some real use for all those sacrifices... ;)

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Wouldn't you need some kind of water breathing to keep the blood slaves from drowning?

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Doesn't work anyway it seems, all the blood buffs are impossible to cast underwater. So the blood is basically useless exept if you bring them on land using fish ammy. I suppose it could be a way to break into blood but meh. I'm in favor of exchanging it for something else. Death maybe.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

The sea monster Perseus kill called Cetus，and kraken is from Norse mythology—— don't be fooled by Hollywood films:D

Reverse communion is an awesome idea in the first glance, since in cbm no blood slave is needed for cast sabbath slave. But it is actually unrealistic at all: Kraken have only blood 1, so a sabbath slave will be 99 fatigue, not to mention this spell cannot be cast underwater....perhaps give it a slave matrix will make this idea into practice.

I have made some test on kraken, and seems a fully buffed kraken can defeat dozens of knight of the deeps without risk of been killed. The only problem is you need quite some meat shield to feed on those KotDs so that they will not shred kraken into pieces before it finish buffing. But it appears to be quite weak against SCs, a sea troll king with frost brand and 24 defence(27 after quicken) and less than 20 protection have roughly 50% chance to kill it, and 50% chance to be rooted rather than killed. If the sea king cast water shield and became 32 defence, then the kraken can not even touch it.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

The Kraken is not a big deal to me, since I am not following that path in EDM. but yes, it does seem a bit messed up.

Probably the most messed up unit in the EDM. It could be easily fixed by taking off the blood and adding something actually useful.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

As Corwin pointed out (thanks Corwin!) the version number of v1.1 was still listed within dominions as v1.04. I've fixed that now in the attachment to the first post. The error will not cause any compatibility problems as I understand it - if different players in the same game have the mod with or without the fix then I think they will still be fine.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Regarding the kraken: It's not messed up! I specifically said in the changelog that I knew people would think it was odd, but thematically I liked it, "so there". I have not taken account of the blood in the balancing - if it were to be removed the Kraken would just be W3E1, so you shouldn't consider it to be losing out by having the blood. It's a purely thematic bonus.

I like Wrana's quote:

These Krakens are very intelligent, and more, they are somewhat alien, and entirely uncaring for humans. If they can empower themselves through pacts with demons at the cost of human innocence, they will not pause for a moment. Of course, their study of the demonic arts is limited in the water (which is why they are only B1). But they have plans to come to the surface, and one day they will.

While the B1 is indeed likely to be fairly useless, I would be surprised if Krakens don't end up seeing a fair bit of use coming to the surface with Amulets of the Fish. Maybe some clever person will find a way to make good use of the B1 (reverse communions seem like a promising option). Or maybe not, in which case never mind.

Oh, finally: Finalgenesis was firmly on the wrong track! Tentacle porn though, seriously: what's that all about?

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

It's apparently a historical cultural thing for Japanese, which contains many interesting and overlooked quirks.

For example, did you know that samurai kohei (Juniors) are encouraged to have "intimate" relationships with their seniors? It's not as simple as that but it gets the idea across...

That's only one of many, and one of the milder quirks.

I'll also raise the point that the Kraken <> virgin connection as imagined by the Japanese has more history then Cthulhu.

Seriously, what's a kraken going to do surrounded by virgins on the battlefield? :D Sacrificing them in a bloody frenzy isn't all that much better in my mind, messier in fact!

P.S. I'd go all the way and give kraken seduction.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Please, can anyone point me at downloadable 1.04 version? I need it to continue a MP game after a computer problem.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

I think these are all the versions of EDM released to date unless I missed one, which is certainly possible. (apart from version 1.1 which is currently attached to the OP)

Edit: Maybe llamabeast will attach these to the OP as well if he spots this post, so that there is a complete mod history easily available for those who need an older version for whatever reason.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Nothing has more history than Cthulhu!! :mad: He is eternal! And when The Stars Are Rignt He will awaken and devour you miserable unbelievers!
:D

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

That's not really feasible calahan. There's an attachment limit (I believe the limit is 4) that he would quickly run into, unless he wanted to keep the version history for just the last few versions.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Thoughts:

if you make more endgames units, how about some that are not so geared towards SC or thugs?

Other ideas might be:

Leprechauns: (Gold generators?)
Gem generators:
Magic Path Diversifiers: Ie., Perhaps you could hire masters of the alchemical orders?

Units that DomKill? Perhaps one called The False King, that has powerful dom kill ability.

Also perhaps Hierophants that have significant H scores, and perhaps the ability to heal?


Random thoughts: A wizard that autocasts the spell that summons Carcator.

I'd also like to see a unit based on mossbody...

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

I agree with this generally, though current version has some diversification abilities.
But False King is an excellent idea. He may also be a thug, though not an SC, I think.
Hierophants I'm not so sure about: to not make an advantage of nations with good priests negligible, they should be high-research or costly, but this would make them mostly unusable... :(

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

True, but the attachment limit can be got around (for example) by having the latest version as a separate attachment for easy download, and put all the other versions in a single .zip file. As long as the .dm files have different names for different versions, archiving them should be fine. At least that way all versions will always be available from the OP.

Don't use mods that often myself, so not sure how other mods deal with previous versions. I know QM tends to create a new thread for each CBM release, but that's probably a special case.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

D'oh. Of course a simple solution like that would escape me.

Yeah, CBM is a special case. Most mods just keep change logs, and change the OP on each new release. CBM is an altogether different beast, generating over 80 pages of discussion across multiple forums. Yikes!

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Is the kraken supposed to kill himself with his own poison? Because this is what is happening.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

It happens with kraken Pretender, actually, and the Kraken in this mod is copied from it. So just make Snake ring for your kraken. ;)

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Yeah, but that costs extra gems and takes up another misc slot(you know, beyond the Amulet of the Fish you already needed).

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Yep well, I just copied the original kraken pretender, as Wrana says. Presumably it's deliberate that it has some vulnerability to its poison? The correct solution in my opinion is not to give it snake ring, but to give it regeneration.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

I'd like to see that changed for the pretender. It's not much of a limitation, but it's very annoying, especially for early expansion.

And so very unthematic. How can you take a seriously a god who routinely poisons himself?

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

People took Socrates seriously, and he only had to poison himself once! If you do it on a monthly basis, it's a guaranteed way to get worshipped as a living deity. :D

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Why no fortune telling ability for the octopus, sorry, kraken ?

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

(1) Its not German
(2) Its not an Octopus, its a Squid!

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Its Welsh, just lives in Germany, thats why its called Paul the pysic squid. Still, obviously all squids/octopus should have fortune teller abilitys because you or I could never predict 7 football results in a row at a world cup.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Ok. I'll ask a silly question about the Kraken.
As far as I understand it, its only role is to make it even harder for land nations to go underwater, isn't it?

I mean, it's easy to summon by water nations. They have tons of water gems, and underwater labs that are easily defended in forts they can build.
How can a land nation summmon one?
First, the land nation must get underwater.
Second, it must build/get a lab there.
Third it must have enough gems and the mages needed.
Krakens are great underwater. They are powerful, regen like hell when given a ring, and have magic paths to help themselves. Only underwater nations can summon them en masse and easily.

In my opinion, the barrier between land and water is the single most annoying feature if Dominions, and krakens just make that worse.
I'd suggest removing them from the mod or providing an amphibious unit that can be summoned only from water and/or one only from land (read Grendelkin).
(But then, I should probably stop playing games with water nations.)

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Well, I'd say the barrier between underwater and land nations is both thematic and interesting to both use and overcome (what I don't like much is how sailing is handled. But so it goes). And getting underwater is quite possible, e.g., through undead thugs & troops. Making krakens isn't easy for land nations, but often possible and sometimes useful. But you can win without them. ;)

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

The barrier between land and water is not an issue I've been interested to address in this mod. If you would like it addressed, I suggest checking out Burnsaber's excellent Underwater Gameplay Improvement Mod. As for the kraken, its role is just to add another interesting underwater summon; nothing more, nothing less.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

I am currently using the great kraken as a means for a land nation (LA caelum) to get a foothold underwater. I think a lot of land nations are going to have spare water gems left simply *because* they aren't water powers, and therefore won't use them much.

Suddenly this pile of water gems become useful when going underwater, just get a watermage, take a water province, cram out some krakens and you have yourself a pretty good start.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

I thought I would use water gems for grendelkins. But indeed I should have used them for krakens instead. I just thought the grendelkins were worth something, which I don't think they are.
Water nations will also match your kraken with 2 of their own, so I'm not sure it helps land nations in any way. Troll kings have the good idea of being summonable from land for instance, and seem a better deal until you've got an underwater lab, which can be problematic in itself.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Krakens were better when they randomed an X2 sorcery, because it could be used for magic diversity. I wouldn't waste gems on the current kraken.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Well we'll know soon enough if it's a waste won't we? ;)

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Heh, Grendelkins not worth it eh? The single most powerful unit in the mod, and not worth anything?

Sure, if you send them out naked, they get cut up eventually. You don't send them out naked... you send them out fully geared.

Stupid Cesare.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Your supposition that someone would send grendelkins naked anywhere is astounding.
Did you actually use some grendelkins, fully kitted, and use them with success?
I kitted some of them fully, and they performed VERY badly.
I will not waste water gems on them, because water gems are better used on getting underwater, with troll kings for instance.
If I want an SC, I'll stick with Tartarians. They are cheaper and pften have useful magical paths, don't need as much in terms of elemental resistances or reinvigoration, are neither much harder to research nor to cast.

Did you actually use them in some game? Did they perform well? Were they cost-effective? How do you feel that they can't swim? Did you try to send some of them underwater just to see how they crawl down there to the point of being unable to even reach their opponent before routing and dying?

And please don't insult people.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Kheldron, you got me all excited about a big showdown for this Inversions turn! And then... nothing! I'll tell you where you can put that Kraken!

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

I've used them to great effect, but I have not tried to take them underwater. Are your statements based on how the unit performs in general or *only* how it performs underwater?

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

At the time I wrote that I was going to try to break that siege then realized you had more than 50% chance to put my kraken where you suggest with your southern reinforcements. I'll come back when I have better control of his final destination ;)

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

My statements are based on how they are worthless underwater and therefore spending water gems on these instead of something worth going under the waves is questionable at best.
Sure, on land they are great. But many other summons are great on land too, and not necessarily as expensive.
If you play a land-only game, they are certainly good.
If there are underwater nations, then you should not waste water gems on them imo.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

I used to poison myself almost daily and managed to attract followers with almost every poisoning, sometimes even more than one at a time. :smirk:

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

"Stupid" is actually a term of endearment that I occasionally use :)

And yes, I was speaking of them on land. They should not go into the water, which is sad. It seems thematic for them. I really wish they had the amphibious tag.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Sorry, this was not obvious. A smiley then would have helped.

Yes, they are great on land, but given the water gems cost, I have a real issue about summoning them versus using the water gems for something else.
If underwater is not an issue, then they are great.
If water nations exist, I feel the mod overall makes it even harder to get down there, due to krakens on the one side, which are way easier to spam for water nations than land nations, and grendelkins on the other, which are going to disrupt your spending of water gems towards something that's mostly useless underwater.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Hi. I'm pretty new to this game and therefore play mostly single player, and "Endgame Diversity Mod" showing up all the time in my EA games is pretty annoying. Is there any way to disable the nation? I love the actual units.

Thanks :)

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

There are probaly other ways, but I always just select the nations that I will be playing against and avoid any having "random" nations. Hope this helps.

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Open the mod in a text editor, then delete this part:

Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - stable version (v1.1) released
 

Ok, having played with various versions at this point, some thoughts:

Grendelkin did not need to be nerfed. Without magic they aren't good for much beyond anti-thug/SC duty or army assistance. The rather high strength they started with (45) was the only thing that made them interesting at all - nerfing this has reduced any desire on my part to summon them.

Rocs in their current incarnation are basically useless except as gatecleavers. And they're more expensive than gate cleavers. Nor are they really more mobile than gate cleavers, since a gatecleaver can 'teleport' through a lab to a unit much farther away than 5 provinces. Strongly recommend re-instituting A3.

Haven't been notably impressed with Shishi, but i don't think i've seen them used well yet. I have seen a lot of them, but they mostly just died =)

Ember Lords are pretty awesome, but I'm not convinced they're overpowered yet. Hard to use frequently because of cost.

The firebird definitely needs to be no earlier than Conj 6, auto-casting solar brilliance is really powerful. I might move it to conj 7.

No opinion on summons which require nature gems - N is too valuable to use for them for any nation i've used with EDM summons.

Older cyclops version was much better (E4 + random), as it actually allows access to E5 rituals with boots, which gives you a real reason to summon them. The newer version is far less useful, and not really worth the 30e in most circumstances. If you can't get more E than a Troll King, its simply not worth it, since the King is so much easier to summon (path requirement wise).

I don't remember when Asynja changed. The version that was used in CPF3 seemed perfectly useful.

None of these really reduce the demand for tarts, because tarts are still the best way to get magic diversity. Undoing the nerfs which stop the new summons from being useful for magic diversity is necessary, and even then tarts are still the best access to diverse magic. May need some other summons purely focused on providing magic diversity to actually compete.