Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

I've never had the opportunity to play any of the Starfleet Command series. They look like they might be some fun. I don't really care what they are based on, canon/not-canon, it doesn't really matter to me.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

I did buy the first Starfleet Command game, but gave up after awhile because of the high learning curve. I have no patience for that, and if I can't learn the game after a couple of hours of experimenting, I usually put it aside. That'w why I like SEIV so much. It was almost a no-brainer to pick up the basics. It was some of the nuances that took me awhile to learn. But thanks to this message board, I've learned just about everything I need to know about this game. If Starfleet Command had a similar website, maybe I'd still be playing that game too.

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Ok, I must admit, the older SFC games are probably pretty complex to the average Gamer. I really liked SFC1 and SFC2 because of my experience in SFB from years ago so I was definitly excited to hear SFB was finally going to be on the PC for the first time!

Ya, SFC does require you to think a lot more then your average Star Trek game. And without a background in SFB, some Star Trek fans where turned off from it because it does have a different history then Star Trek. But that is one thing SFC3 is trying to do this time. They are trying to make the Interface simpler and easier to figure out then the previous Versions yet keeping it balanced in the Tactical combat department and actually adding new ideas to the game that previous SFC games didn't have.

I'm not saying go out and buy it, just try out the Demo when it comes out or wait a year or so until you can get a copy at a Bargin Bin or something. You might be suprised how good of a game it could be for you.

Besides, have you seen some of the crap some of these other companies are making? At least this game has its roots on a solid combat system compared to those "Wanna be's".

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, depending on the hardware requirements, I might try the demo. I couldn't play SFC2 at all because of all the hardware stuff. Nice graphics are a beauty to behold, but I'd rather have good gameplay over graphics. Besides, I can't afford to buy a new computer every year to buy all of these new games with their super-duper graphics requirements. My computer is 4 years old, and I haven't upgraded it since I got it. Last year killed me, what with having a new baby and having to put him in daycare. That's not cheap. I'm still recoverning from that, so I just cross my fingers when a new game comes out that I can play it.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Here is a dilema I have with the implementation of Captains:

In order to avoid a player abusing the Captains, they must be limited to one per ship. Space Empires does this by looking at the family number of the component. Simple enough. However, since each race has different types of Captains, they each require a different family number for convienience so they are available throughout the game when "Show Latest" is chosen. This however, allows a player to put combinations of different Captains on a ship like Combat Captain + Transport Captain and getting both bonuses.

So...what would be a good solution?
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Change Captains to be sequential w/ same traits</font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Let the player worry about turning "Show Latest" off to pick the desired Captain
  </font>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What do you think?

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Kwok, if you put another component between the captains, you can give them the same family number, restrict them to one per ship, and still have them show up under "show latest".

You need one visible component in between each pair of captains though.

Phoenix-D

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Phoenix-D:

That works? I had tried so many variations...but not that one.

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I was just goofing around tonight with a couple of ships.
http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/...gon-vorcha.gif http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/...n-dderidex.gif http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/...fp-defiant.gif

The Klingon Vor'Cha Class still needs some texture work, but it was fun making it. Also, here is a re-worked and re-sized D'Deridex Warbird (which also needs proper textures!) beside a little tough ship, the USS Defiant!

[ October 13, 2002, 06:52: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

That works, I've done it.

EDIT: The part about the filler component being visible is Really Important, BTW. If the player can't see it, SE4 sorts like it doesn't exist.

Phoenix-D

[ October 13, 2002, 06:51: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Whow! Hold on here a second. What is all this "Captian" stuff you are talking about? Is this a component you are thinking about implementing to ships? Just out of curiosity, why are you doing this?

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"A new and exciting feature to be implemented in the TNG Mod are Captains. Captains are basically generic characters that are treated as components and can be placed on ships or bases and give them particular abilities. For example, a Klingon ship might feature a Warrior Captain who might give the ship a 10% combat bonus or a Federation ship might have a Freighter Captain who gives a 10% maintenance reduction but a -10% reduction to defense. Captains cost only a few extra materials, take up no space, and are generally researched through military science. This nifty little feature will certainly add lots of fun to any SE:IV game. Similiar to Captains, there are also infantry troop components that can be placed on larger troop vehicles - check out Units & Vehicles."

That is the description of Captains from the TNG mod site. You don't have to add a Captain on every ship, I just thought it would add a little twist to the usual game.

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http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/...ex-khazara.gif

The Romulan Khazara Class Warbird along with the powerful D'Deridex Class Warbird.

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How much is done so far?

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Kwok, how do you do textures using images in POVray and get them aligned the right way on the model? That's something I've never really been able to figure out.

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Kwok:

Would it be possible to add admirals as well? Maybe introduce them once the player is really advanced in the military sciences? These would be the same as captains, but with fleet wide effects.

Cheers, and happy thanksgiving*
Jimbob

*for Canadians only

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Rather than calling them "Captains", and saying that a ship can be without a captain, the components should probably be given a different name.
"Legendary Individual" perhaps, or "Elite Crewperson", depending on how special they are.

You could then include chief engineers (+1 repair, maintenance redux), first officers (smaller Version of captain bonus), and others.

You mentioned that the captains would cost minimal resources... Especially for the frighter captains, the component would be almost a requirement. A freighter captain could easily pay for himself many times over, which is good, but it should be an investment decision with a year or two before you make your money back.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

I see, very interesting concept. But wouldn't it be more logical to have "Crew Components" that specialize in certain areas? Like a good Senior Staff that is specialized in certain areas. I know a good captian is important, but a good senior staff is also important to a ships operation too.

Also, love you two Romlan ships. The smaller ship looks like a compeletly original design. Is it based on a TNG design you found or completely "Non-canon"? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

With ship designs like that, I can live with Non-canon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Oh, glad to see the Vorcha using a different color then a "Green" color like the Romulans. I've always been patial towards the Grey color used in the TOS and TMP for Klingons ships. The Green just looks too Romulan for my taste.

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Budget budget budget.

If they had a choice, they would have made it green. But since even colors cost money, they just attached some stuff and made the D-7.

[ October 14, 2002, 01:03: Message edited by: TerranC ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Whoa! Lots of Messages.

I was thinking of expanding the selection to more than just Captains, there's lots of different things that can be done with that idea. I also have infantry comps for troops that are like individual soldiers that are on a vehicle in replace of a usual weapon.

I'm always working on the ships and improving their textures (as I learn more about applying them so that they look better). It takes some work and time before you get good results.

The Khazara Class Warbird is a logical design of my own. The D'Deridex Class Warbird is one big *** ship at twice the length of a Feddie Galaxy, so it might make sense that the Romulans might make other ships that are more practical. The Klingon Vor'Cha Class is textured in the same colour as it was in the series. You might be confusing the Negh'Var with it as that ship appeared often in DS9 and featured a green colour.

*Happy Thanksgiving - I had lots of yummy turkey today!*

[ October 14, 2002, 05:55: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Before I depart for bed - a sneak peek at the latest ship under construction at Utopia Planitia:
http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/...-sovereign.gif
Hmm...can you guess what ship this will be?

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Hey Captain, was wondering, how big are you going to make your Defiant in the game? I understand that you are going to make Pulse Phasers something that only the Defiant (and maybe a couple of other types of hulls) can install on its hull, but how big are you going to make this "Tough little ship" for the game? Actually, I can't even get an exact Dimension size for it. I've heard people say its about 270 meters to as small as 100 meters in lenght. I'm not exactly sure what that would translate to KT's in the game. I've read in the DS9 Tech Manual (and I question many concepts in that manual to say that least) it places the Tonnage of the vessel at 355,000 Metric Tons. does that mean you are going to make the Defiant 355 KT? What about the Enterprise-D and E? The Ent-D seems to be much more massive then the E, yet its obvious the E has much more powerful Weapon systems on board. In my SFB mode I had planned, I was thinking in just keeping a relative Tonnage for all races (at least that would be balanced).

Also, what about Quantum Torpedoes? Suicide Junkie and I had a long discussion about Quantums once and we both agreed that the DS9's Tech Manual theories about how they work (among a few weird theories from Trekkies) seem a bit silly. Just wondering what was your theories about this weapon system.

[ October 14, 2002, 08:02: Message edited by: Magnum357 ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Random comments:

The Mod looks sweet. (Now If I only knew how to play SE:IV G)
The lego captain is adorable.
Vor'Cha's in DS9 were dark green also.
Love the Khazara.

I look forward to getting beaten again and again by every race around the Alpha Quadrant block.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

The Defiant will be a 180kT ship and will have access to a nice compact mount intended for use with its pulse phasers. Among ship-obsessed Trekkies, the general consensus is that the Defiant is 120m and not 170m as indicated in DS9TM.

The Galaxy will be larger in kT size, but will not have the special Sovereign mount that will help the latter kick butt against the Federation's foes.

Quantum Torpedoes will be an extension of the torpedo research tree for the Federation only. The major difference between the Quantum and Photon torpedo is that one is blue and the other is red http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

The Vor'Chas in DS9 are still actually the blue-cyan colour they are usually, it's just shown really dark so it looks greeny.

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Just to prove CaptainKwok's point:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/sc...haneghvar1.htm

Edit: You mean these ones?

http://www.ditl.org/gptz/GVorKaboom3.jpg

DS9 Ships

[ October 14, 2002, 16:00: Message edited by: TerranC ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Ha Ha, TerranC, it doesn't actually *prove* anything since none of those Vor'Cha images are from the DS9 run - but somewhere else there was a nice screencap with a Vor'Cha being blown apart by the Cardassian orbital platforms. Vor'Cha Kaboom!

[ October 14, 2002, 17:31: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Great work kwok.

I would advise making specialized crew components as suggested. Making spartan (small) regular ( medium) and luxury (large) all with different levels of abilities.

You models always look great! Wish I had your skill with textures http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Captain Kwok,

At what time do you hope to have your Star Trek Mod completed by?

Lighthorse

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

The date of release for the TNG mod really depends on my workload from school and my job. I'm thinking mid-December at the moment because I have a few weeks off then from school and perhaps work - which should allow for some serious tweaking.

Currently I have all sorts of odds and ends, with most normal facilities and components done. Most of the racial stuff is set but needs to be coded in. Then the other files will then have to be matched and some sort of simple AIs pumped out for testing.

Once released, the feedback should lead to a fully vamped Version by March with all the intended features (ie graphics) and extras.

The TNG mod site hit 3000!

[ October 15, 2002, 04:29: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Personally Captain, I think the Blue/Green looks great and I hope you use it for all you Klingons ships. Makes the Klingons distinguishable from the other races. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

As for the Quantums, well... its a given that Quantums are Blue and Photons are red, but what I mean any differentail in game characteristics? SJ and I had discussed extensively on these weapons. Obviously, they were specifically designed (at least most evidence seems to lean torward this theory) to defeat the borg. We are not sure how Borg keep Fed weapon systems adapting (is it an adapting sheild system or is it some other sort of feild that adapts to Energy weapons?) so why are Quantums so disruptive to borg ships compared to other weapons? The DS9 manual explains that the weapons use Null space or something like that to cause significant damage to a target. It basically said that the weapon system creates a small strain of Multi-dimensional substances and projects it torward the target (why this would be damaging to the target isn't really explained in the TM). Personally, SJ and I thought this was sort of rediculas and thought Quantums where basically Quantum Singularitiy Drivers. We reasoned that since a Quantum Singularity (black hole) can easily be created buy making a mass dense enough to occure, it would make much better sense to fire a "Black Hole" at a Borg ship then this Null Space stuff. Even if a Borg ship could adapt to the damaged being caused, with such gravitaional forces, it would just keep sucking Borg ship parts until it burned itself out. Anyway, we where thinking about having Quantums etheir Sheild Peircing or Quad to sheilds for mechanical effects in the game. But that brings up another question, how are Borg Weapon systems and other race specific systems differ from other races?

Also, I agree with most other Trekkies about the 120 metter length. At least the schematics support it.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

I don't think I'm going to worry all that much about exactly how a quantum torpedo damages its target. Basically, it's a conventional matter/anti-matter booster that triggers a quantum warhead - so that means regular torpedo with more boom factor http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Howdy. mod looks great. can't wait to play it.
from what i've seen, quantum torpedoes are more accurate, as well as more powerful that Photons. The size is good for the defiant. don't go by the ds9 tech manual. most of the numbers given in there are rediculus.

[ October 16, 2002, 01:05: Message edited by: Capt. Peter Longstreet ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

To continue about those quantum torps.
This is my vision.

The borg do not have some sort of field around their ships to analyse the weapons their enemies throw at them. They just register the frequency of the weapons.

Every material has a specific frequency a which they start to shake to bits. I only know the Dutch name for this frequency (eigenfrequentie). If you have shields that can adapt to the opposite of that frequency, you don't have to worry about damage of that weapon. Think of sound and anti-sound, they eliminate eachother. Don't think about matter and anit-matter, because those are totaly diffent things. Matter and anti-matter are substances that react with everything that is their opposite and create pure energy. Example: Wood and Anti-Protons*. If those two come into contact with eachother, they produce pure energy. If water and Anti-Protons* come into contact with eachother, they also produce pure energy.

The frequenty of a substance is regulating in which form it represents itself (solid, fluid, gasous). The energy in a certain substance controls the frequenty and therefore in which state it represents itself. So, if you put enough energy in a substance it will eventually become pure energy. With mathematics you can prove there are at least eleven dimensions. And with that, you can asume that the behavior of energy is the same in all of those eleven dimensions. But what if there are more than eleven dimensions?! There the energy might not behave like it behaves in our dimension. It might be very destructive in our dimension. Maybe that effect of the Quantum Torpedo is so very destructive to the Borg. They can't analyse the frequency correctly and counteract them as effecient

*= currently the most common anti-matter and most useable. To contain anti-matter, you need a containmentfield (sounds familliar, doesn't it). The only way of making a containmentfield (with our technology) is to make an ElectroMagnetic field, which has a negative charge. Protons have a positive charge, therefore they stay within the created EM barrier.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Thanks Dr. Timstone for the explanation.

At this time, I have no special plans for Quantum torpedoes except that they are restricted to Federation use. Perhaps I'll make it possible for other races to capture the tech though.

I've been collecting some sounds, if you know any good sources with good or better quality sci-fi sounds...let me know!

I hope to work on the mod for a few hours tomorrow night - but the next week looks bad after that. If only I got paid and educated while modding, eh?

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Hehe... me doctor. Hmm... doesn't sound too bad, now does it?
Thansk for the compliment, I think.

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That would explain why they set the phasers on a rotating frequency to delay the borg from adapting. Captain, try www.stinsv.com It has lots of sound clips. www.stinsv.com/tng/compa.htm Here is the TNG section. the effects are toward the bottom. I hope this helps.

Edit:added direct link to the TNG section to make life easier.

[ October 18, 2002, 17:57: Message edited by: Capt. Peter Longstreet ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

There is no point in trying to explain quantum torpedos. The only information to go by is the word quantum. They could use entaglement to teleport matter to another point, they could be singularities, but without more evidence to go by no-one will "know".Its like explaining of light sabers work.(something i'm not proud of)

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That explains a lot of things:

Quantum = Lots of stuff

So Quantum torpedo has lots of stuff than a photon torpedoe; probably what makes the PT tick.

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Captain Kwok,

I'm looking forward to play TNG/mod.

Lighthorse

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That explains a lot of things:

Quantum = Lots of stuff

So Quantum torpedo has lots of stuff than a photon torpedoe; probably what makes the PT tick.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hahaha... nice. Thanks TerranC.

SM (Wow, that's a cool abreviation): I just tried to explain a theory on the inner workings of a Quantum Torp, it's not necessarily the truth. Just read it and give sensible thoughts. And if you don't fully understand it, just say nothing, not something that could be potentially hostile to the writer. Thank you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Well, I suppose we will never really know what the heck Quantum Torps really are. I was just bring it up because I hope Kwok doesn't try to introduce weapon systems that are too "God Like". Just seems lately (at least in Voyager) that the show introduced tech systems that seem to do "Majical things" even though in the 24th century, humans are still a pretty young race.

I just hope the Captain doesn't introduce heavely "God Like" weapons to races with out extensive research (and I mean EXTENSIVE!) in a Tech feild.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Sorry if I upset anyone about the quantum torps.
I was simply trying to point out that in a mod based on science fiction, an explanation need not be made or given. The effect is what is important; just as a computer engineer need not know how a specific diode works as long as they know what it does.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Don't worry!

There will be no uber-weapons a la Voyager. The Borg will be tough - but high costs should help balance them out.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

SM: No harm done. All is well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Greetings!

I've made a minor update to the website. A couple of new pics for the Akira and Defiant and a minor change in re: to colonization.

I've been so busy the Last two weeks I haven't been able to do much at all. Hopefully I'll get a break for a few days to do some much needed work, eh?

That's all for now. Goodnight.

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

Kwok: The new akira looks nice.

As for the rest of the mod: I like what you are doing with colonization.

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http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif The new graphics look great. I've always been fond of the akira and the new graphics are great; a credit to the class. good point about colonization. gas giant research should be expensive...maybe even making the component more expensive than rock/ice or take longer since any ship that enters the atmosphere would have to be reinforced.

[ October 22, 2002, 06:43: Message edited by: Capt. Peter Longstreet ]

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

I'm also deciding what planets each race should call home. Despite the fact that all Star Trek races seem to breath oxygen - I though I might change that a bit.

O-Rock
Federation
Klingons
Romulans

H-Rock
Dominion

CO2-Rock
Cardassians
Ferengi

CH4-Rock
Borg

Of course, these are just some ideas. What do you think?

Re: *** Star Trek Mod Discussion ***
 

I'm not much of a trekkie, but I think this looks great. Some variation in the atmosphere is good. Allows for a much greater spread of colonies. Like more than two races in one starsystem. I like it.

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The Dominion rulers (oh, it's been a while, what were they, the immortal ones?) had a planet that was entirely liquid - mind you it was them that were liquid - but perhaps they should colonize ice/liquid planets.

As to the atmosphere types, seems good to me. I like the fact that the borg have their own Category. Methane was it, I knew the borg stunk, but always thought it was because they never bathed.