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-   -   Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=8357)

JLS October 27th, 2003 01:50 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
The TDM AI files are much better basis than the stock AI files...
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Fyron,
In regards to AI driver files.

TDM major files are a precise amalgamation of base se4 stock DATA and ONLY base se4 data.
---> (few if any Adamant Data interpetations)

AIC AI drivers are a amalgamation that depends on the cooperation of the base data AIC supplies.
The same applies to the precise and fine work that went into Rollos Devnul, PFKs Proportions, Tampa Bays Sound, FQM and the many others.

There is no way TDM, AIC or any mod AI driver files will work; even near 50% effective in Adamant. The file at base will not produce what you want intended, properly Defend when needed and attack when the correct opportune arises and there is much more.

Now if this is in-Forum politics or you desire the TDM label, then sure
.
I will open each of TDMs AI Files, then select all and then cut. In this way, you may say the AI started from a TDM file base. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

However, the cold truth is; for without the AI understanding your data Fyron, all you have in Adamant is a depository of past and the present cells of Facilities, Platforms, and Components along with images, geo and eco support that is pure and unrefined data that for the most part; only a Human may read and then possibly understand its intended use.

[ October 27, 2003, 13:13: Message edited by: JLS ]

Alneyan October 27th, 2003 03:47 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Fyron perhaps the colony component could have 2000 supply points on it. This would greatly help with the colony ships not running out of fuel very quickly. As each engine starts with 20 supply points a turn and it takes about 18 or 20 engines to move two points. So you run out of supplies right away. And if your lucky enough to hit two empty systems your screwed.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Tesco, you may use reactors to improve the range of your colonizers. I seem to recall from when I was in Adamant 010 than a Colonizer with 18 engines meant a speed of 2 with something like 2000 or 2500 supplies, or perhaps even more, if the other components are reactors.

Good luck to travel through these two empty systems though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

geoschmo October 27th, 2003 03:55 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Fyron perhaps the colony component could have 2000 supply points on it. This would greatly help with the colony ships not running out of fuel very quickly. As each engine starts with 20 supply points a turn and it takes about 18 or 20 engines to move two points. So you run out of supplies right away. And if your lucky enough to hit two empty systems your screwed.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you are using AI this will cause problems. The AI will start using colony components on large warships to satisfy it's requirment for additional supply storage. If the mod is for humans only though this could work. Or the supply generation as Alyenan suggests should work as well.

Ed Kolis October 27th, 2003 08:27 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:
However, the cold truth is; for without the AI understanding your data Fyron, all you have in Adamant is a depository of past and the present cells of Facilities, Platforms, and Components along with images, geo and eco support that is pure and unrefined data that for the most part; only a Human may read and then possibly understand its intended use.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Uh, are you saying that a mod is useless without good AI files? I personally play SE4 almost exclusively multiplayer, because it's such a long, drawn-out game that I can never motivate myself to finish a single-player game; I need other people who are depending on me to play my empire http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Fyron October 27th, 2003 08:50 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
The TDM AI files are much better basis than the stock AI files...

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Fyron,
In regards to AI driver files.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, the TDM AIs are precise... that is the whole point. The stock AI files are comparatively poorly written. Just converting them to be compatible with Adamant will result in equally poor AIs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Changing TDM AIs to work in Adamant will require the same amount of work as converting the stock AIs (as all of the exact same conVersions are necessary in either case; look at SJ's AI Patcher for P&N, it can work on both stock AIs and custom AIs like TDM). Better to start with a strong foundation than a weak one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif It has nothing to do with "forum politics" or the "TDM label;" it just has to do with better AI files. And trust me, I know how the AI works (not the specific details, but in general). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Quote:

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Fyron perhaps the colony component could have 2000 supply points on it. This would greatly help with the colony ships not running out of fuel very quickly. As each engine starts with 20 supply points a turn and it takes about 18 or 20 engines to move two points. So you run out of supplies right away. And if your lucky enough to hit two empty systems your screwed.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Start up a game on medium tech, and you will see that it is in this regard similar to stock SE4's low tech. Again, I wanted "low tech start" to mean low tech start in Adamant... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Colony ships can get 2 systems over or so easily, but that's it. It would not make sense for ships using fission engines and such to be able to have a great range...

Geo, you could build the supplies in to the colony ship hull itself. In Adamant, the colony ship is 3300 kT, and the colony module is 3000 kT. Good luck fitting one on a non-colony ship. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 27, 2003, 18:55: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

JLS October 27th, 2003 11:41 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

In regards to AI driver files.
Yes, the TDM AIs are precise... that is the whole point. The stock AI files are comparatively poorly written. Just converting them to be compatible with Adamant will result in equally poor AIs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Changing TDM AIs to work in Adamant will require the same amount of work as converting the stock AIs (as all of the exact same conVersions are necessary in either case; look at SJ's AI Patcher for P&N, it can work on both stock AIs and custom AIs like TDM). Better to start with a strong foundation than a weak one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif It has nothing to do with "forum politics" or the "TDM label;" it just has to do with better AI files. And trust me, I know how the AI works (not the specific details, but in general). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">OK fyron, what TDM AI would you recomend for what ADAMANT RACE...

And this is my final example.

Actually lets go with (A) our original Abbidon choice.
- -
If I add the Adamant weapons to there Design File and add what ever Adamant Facilities to that construction file and do NOT totally rebuild any TDM AI driver files from the bottom up; other then the added Adamant Weapons and Facilities etc.

- - -

Any player can make your Adamant AI based on se4 TDM drivers and your Adamant data COWER into:

Protectorate Treaty
Subjugation Treaty
Then Accept any Human Players Demand for surrender


Get this; it can probably be done WITHOUT any Human Player researching any not even one, existing sole Adamant tech and only building a FEW SHIPS; a matter of fact it is doubtful I even need to build a facility or start a new colony. And to boot; in simu play; I can do this all within 5 years, with most default game starts.

I know the players that will find the way and find it quick. How about you, please tell me if you know what Adamant data will allow us Human Players to Cower all your AI; with drivers that are tuned to another data source.

= = = = =

However, when playing TDM with the Stock se4 data that TDM is tuned with; and the same Drivers less your Adamant Weapons and Facilities, the TDM Abbi has and will rule most players.

[ October 27, 2003, 21:59: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron October 28th, 2003 12:00 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
I think you missed my point... I never said just throw in TDM AIs and use them unaltered... of course that would not work. My point was that they are a better base to work from than the stock AIs, as they are written better. All of the weapon families are the same in Adamant as in stock, save the new Flak Cannons and a few new specialty weapons. Other component families are the same as well, except for armors, as there are a few more types of those. Facility families are identical as well, save for some new facilities, of which there are not many. The majority of the changes are tweaks of stock data (and of course duplicating loads of stuff for magic and organic races, though all family numbers were preserved in the duplications).

If you can take stock AI files and make them perform as well in Adamant as the TDM AIs do in stock (or better http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ), go ahead and do so. But, a lot of the same generic tweaks that are necessary to make the AI perform better in any mod are already done in the TDM AIs, so there would be less work involved...

It does not matter which race you pick. The plan for now is to get 3 sets of AI files (one for each race type) that work fairly well in the mod, and just port them to all the other AIs, so that some SP games could be played. Actually, now that I think about it, it might be necessary to edit more AIs than that, based on racial tech traits. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ October 27, 2003, 22:07: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

JLS October 28th, 2003 12:06 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
The AI drivers have to be totally re-built from the Bottom up to except even (Some) of what you would like them to accept.

I will need any new general information that is different from what is described in Abbi’s AI_General file.

Your desired AI_Strategies file in case I need to tweak while testing (for Abbi specifics only).

Note:
AI Files that do not have to be rebuilt.
Abbidon_AI_Speech

Have you figured out the puzzle below on how to beat the AI using your existing data?

[ October 27, 2003, 22:33: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron October 28th, 2003 12:27 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
It's up to you... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

The General.txt file needs the race type and HW planet type traits added as the first advanced traits (they cost 0, so if added as the Last ones, they will not be selected...). Just set up their characteristics and traits as close to what they are in stock as possible.

I believe the latest Default_Strategies.txt file form the Ultimate Strategies Mod is in Adamant. Use that one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Quote:

Have you figured out the puzzle below on how to beat the AI using your existing data?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Can't think of any exploits that are not already possible in stock SE4... if someone wants to exploit the AI as much as possible to cheat their way to victory, that is their problem, not mine. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 27, 2003, 22:28: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

JLS October 28th, 2003 12:30 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
It's up to you... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

The General.txt file needs the race type and HW planet type traits added as the first advanced traits (they cost 0, so if added as the Last ones, they will not be selected...). Just set up their characteristics and traits as close to what they are in stock as possible.

I believe the latest Default_Strategies.txt file form the Ultimate Strategies Mod is in Adamant. Use that one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> Have you figured out the puzzle below on how to beat the AI using your existing data?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Can't think of any exploits that are not already possible in stock SE4... if someone wants to exploit the AI as much as possible to cheat their way to victory, that is their problem, not mine. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you want your AI to be great in multiplayer or a Week End LAN party, you can not adopt this philosophy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 27, 2003, 22:31: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron October 28th, 2003 12:37 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
It is always possible to exploit the AI, no matter the mod... you can always make them not accept trades or surrenders, ever, but that kind of detracts from any sort of interaction with them...

JLS October 28th, 2003 12:41 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
It is always possible to exploit the AI, no matter the mod... you can always make them not accept trades or surrenders, ever, but that kind of detracts from any sort of interaction with them...
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I never suggested "accept trades or surrenders turned" off...

Just change your Data so the Human Players can’t build a Huge Fortress Ships and extra large Juggernaut from the beginning of the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 27, 2003, 22:52: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron October 28th, 2003 12:58 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
I have a Juggernaut and a Fortress Ship, both of which require level 16 ship construction techs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif Am I missing something here? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

JLS October 28th, 2003 02:36 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Your Colonizer is 3300 kt and every time a Player builds one the score will climb, every time a player lands the score will drop; dramatically.


Now if I have 6 in flight to planets and building one and a Avg Gas Type AI has 2 in flight you have the AI out scored in this area alone; this AI Player is forced into thinking you have a huge fleet:

If the AI or an unfamiliar Human Player is near all I need is several 3300kt Colony ships over my Home World plus several fair ships but far inferior to my opponant; However, my score may have me master. Or at least apear that way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Reference

Adamant Colonizer Hull

Name := Colony Ship
Short Name := Colony Ship
Description :=
Code := CL
Primary Bitmap Name := ColonyShip
Alternate Bitmap Name := ColonyShip
Vehicle Type := Ship
Tonnage := 3300
Cost Minerals := 150
Cost Organics := 600
Cost Radioactives := 0
Engines Per Move := 18


=============================================
AI POLITICS DATA FILE - Default
=============================================

This file governs how an empire decides to send Messages. (Accept Messages and set Postures and much, much more)

Score Percent:
This is the percentage of the target player's score to ours. So
if we have a score of 10000, and they have a score of 15000, this percentage
would be 150%.

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

In addition, as far as I recall as of se4 v1.78 and probably to date the AI will not build ships that are over a certain KT. If IRRC its between 400 and 590 kt, so in effect your AI will not build Colonizer over (what ever it was 400 to 590) in simu games for 50 turns, you may consider reducing your Colonizers to that minimum.

You may attempt some setting in the AI DATA FILE - Settings
, but in all probability it will be for not. In v1.78 for a +600 ship, I spent days trying to get this to work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

You also may want to confirm this with Malfader.


================================================
AI DATA FILE - Settings
==================================================

Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 1 Amount := 510
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 1 Num Turns := 20
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 2 Amount := 610
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 2 Num Turns := 40
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 3 Amount := 0
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 3 Num Turns := 0

[ October 28, 2003, 01:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

Grand Lord Vito October 28th, 2003 08:41 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Forget it, sully after E Koli post why do you even bother to help.

E Koli maybe I would like to play a LAN game in Adamant with a good AI like I do with the AIC MOD.
When you only have 1 or two freinds over, its not much fun one on one ot two against one.

Fyron I noticed the Rock Natives Trait/Tech and Compnent LAYOUT from JLS work in the AIC mod released Last febuary http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

[ October 28, 2003, 07:04: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

Fyron October 28th, 2003 09:24 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
All that score stuff can easily be taken care of... just double or triple the score ratios necessary for those bad treaties and surrenders. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Do AI bonus resources count towards their score? I forget. If so, then an AI with even a low bonus has 2x the starting score from resources as the human does, so a few colony ships will not be that drastic.

Quote:

In addition, as far as I recall as of se4 v1.78 and probably to date the AI will not build ships that are over a certain KT. If IRRC its between 400 and 590 kt, so in effect your AI will not build Colonizer over (what ever it was 400 to 590) in simu games for 50 turns, you may consider reducing your Colonizers to that minimum.

You may attempt some setting in the AI DATA FILE - Settings
, but in all probability it will be for not. In v1.78 for a +600 ship, I spent days trying to get this to work

You also may want to confirm this with Malfader.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You can certainly have AIs building big ships, just increase the design sizes and max tonnage at various start levels. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Have you never seen any TDM AIs with baseships or DNs? Or, have you never seen the AIs build colony ships in Proportions or AIC? In there, colony ships are 1800 kT. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Quote:

Forget it, sully after E Koli post why do you even bother to help.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Because Ekolis does not represent everyone that plays SE4... his opinion is no more or less valid than yours.

Quote:

Fyron I noticed the Rock Natives Trait/Tech and Compnent LAYOUT from JLS work in the AIC mod released Last febuary
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Huh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif I am confused. What exactly are you refering too? I incorporated the Colony Tech Mod by Ekolis moments after it came out some time ago... I do not see this stuff in AIC. Please clarify.

[ October 28, 2003, 07:31: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Alneyan October 28th, 2003 12:55 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by JLS:
However, the cold truth is; for without the AI understanding your data Fyron, all you have in Adamant is a depository of past and the present cells of Facilities, Platforms, and Components along with images, geo and eco support that is pure and unrefined data that for the most part; only a Human may read and then possibly understand its intended use.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Uh, are you saying that a mod is useless without good AI files? I personally play SE4 almost exclusively multiplayer, because it's such a long, drawn-out game that I can never motivate myself to finish a single-player game; I need other people who are depending on me to play my empire http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, JLS was merely speaking of the understanding of Adamant by the AI. For an AI, Adamant is currently only a lot of facilities, hulls, components and so on, impossible to understand and to use. He said that because Fyron and he were discussing which AI to use as a fundation, how to best code an AI and other technical matter alongs these lines. So JLS didn't say anything about the usefulness of a mod with or without AI files.

Grand Lord Vito October 28th, 2003 04:57 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:
Your Colonizer is 3300 kt and every time a Player builds one the score will climb, every time a player lands the score will drop; dramatically.
Now if I have 6 in flight to planets and building one and a Avg Gas Type AI has 2 in flight you have the AI out scored in this area alone; this AI Player is forced into thinking you have a huge fleet:
If the AI or an unfamiliar Human Player is near all I need is several 3300kt Colony ships over my Home World plus several fair ships but far inferior to my opponant; However, my score may have me master. Or at least apear that way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

In addition, as far as I recall as of se4 v1.78 and probably to date the AI will not build ships that are over a certain KT. If IRRC its between 400 and 590 kt, so in effect your AI will not build Colonizer over (what ever it was 400 to 590) in simu games for 50 turns, you may consider reducing your Colonizers to that minimum.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">JLS I remember in LAN games that the AI would not build 1500kt Colonizers in Proportions for almost 100 turns but I think that was fixed in se4 v1.78 or se4 1.84.

But I see your point about the AI thinking that a 3300 KT Colonizer can be a Massive Base Ship.

[ October 28, 2003, 15:00: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

tesco samoa October 28th, 2003 05:41 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
hmm... geo that is a problem.

As is the current situation. A bad start and your done. Which is what I currently have. And yes I have maxed the ship out with the supply storage. But it is worthless as it is now due to the fact that the engines use too much supplies at the beginning. I am sure it is corrected later on in the game. But that is illrevelent to the current situation. As I am talking about the early game with low tech start.

It is an issue.

Grand Lord Vito October 28th, 2003 06:34 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:

JLS:
"In addition, as far as I recall as of se4 v1.78 and probably to date the AI will not build ships that are over a certain KT. If IRRC its between 400 and 590 kt, so in effect your AI will not build Colonizer over (what ever it was 400 to 590) in simu games for 50 turns, you may consider reducing your Colonizers to that minimum.
You also may want to confirm this with Malfader"


Fyron:
"You can certainly have AIs building big ships, just increase the design sizes and max tonnage at various start levels. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Have you never seen any TDM AIs with baseships or DNs? Or, have you never seen the AIs build colony ships in Proportions or AIC? In there, colony ships are 1800 kT."
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I guess you never played LAN fyron, because prior to the Last se4 patched Version the AI would not build ships over 600kt for 50 to 100 turns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

JLS can you confirm if this is fixed yet, I think it was.

[ October 28, 2003, 16:38: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

Grand Lord Vito October 28th, 2003 06:41 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:

ME:
Forget it, sully after E Koli post why do you even bother to help.

Fyron
Because Ekolis does not represent everyone that plays SE4... his opinion is no more or less valid than yours.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, I think EKolis is right - "Adamant is better played without the AI"

Grand Lord Vito October 28th, 2003 06:47 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:

ME:
Fyron I noticed the Rock Natives Trait/Tech and Compnent LAYOUT from JLS work in the AIC mod released Last febuary

Fyron:
Huh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif I am confused. What exactly are you refering too? I incorporated the Colony Tech Mod by Ekolis moments after it came out some time ago... I do not see this stuff in AIC. Please clarify.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I received an EMAIL to mind my own business. It was polite and to that effect http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Fyron October 28th, 2003 11:54 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
No, I think EKolis is right - "Adamant is better played without the AI"
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, right now that the AI is unmodded and can not work in Adamant... but just wait til some modded AIs are made. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Quote:

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
I received an EMAIL to mind my own business. It was polite and to that effect http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ok... I am now more confused than ever. Who sent an email? What were you talking about to begin with? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Quote:

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
hmm... geo that is a problem.

As is the current situation. A bad start and your done. Which is what I currently have. And yes I have maxed the ship out with the supply storage. But it is worthless as it is now due to the fact that the engines use too much supplies at the beginning. I am sure it is corrected later on in the game. But that is illrevelent to the current situation. As I am talking about the early game with low tech start.

It is an issue.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Starting behind several empty systems will screw you over in stock SE4 as well. I am still not convinced it is an issue for humans... for AI probably, as they turn their ships around as soon as they get below a certain supply threshhold (which I hope can be modded in Settings.txt, will have to check).

Fyron October 29th, 2003 12:42 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Based on Lighthorse's suggestion for the romulans in the STM thread...

I think I need to add some sort of cloaking device that can be used in combat too. You can't cloak in combat, so it would give an ECM bonus, representing the ability to decloak, fire, and then recloak. Any good ideas on a name and type of cloaking this would be to distinguish it from regular cloaking devices?

JLS October 29th, 2003 05:12 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
All that score stuff can easily be taken care of... just double or triple the score ratios necessary for those bad treaties and surrenders. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Do AI bonus resources count towards their score? I forget. If so, then an AI with even a low bonus has 2x the starting score from resources as the human does, so a few colony ships will not be that drastic.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You may think Fyron, however http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I believe the Adamant AI will vacillate and dither as the Human Players builds, maintains in flight then lands multiple 3300kt Colonizers.

In addition, when 3300kt Colonizers are NOT being built by the Human Player (1) with the AI as you recommend “score double or triple the score ratios stuff”; will cause the AI to now think HP (1) is weak and puny but yet HP (1) may have a superior Combat Fleet value worthy to take on that AI.

Yet Human Player (2) with a much lesser Combat Fleet value but has Multiple 3300kt Colonizer in Flight with the same AI will think this player is “score ratios” more powerful. Hence, this AI Player may decide to change posture towards Human Player (1) the actual stronger Player.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 29, 2003, 15:19: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron October 29th, 2003 07:21 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Since the AI will build plenty of its own 3300 kT colony ships, I think you are blowing this a little out of proportion...

Ed Kolis October 30th, 2003 02:13 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Tactical Cloaking Device? Multi-Band Cloaking Device?

tesco samoa November 11th, 2003 09:23 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
fyron what is up with the fighters... under your current set up. You cannot arm fighters with any weapons , engines supplies...

Alneyan November 11th, 2003 09:27 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
fyron what is up with the fighters... under your current set up. You cannot arm fighters with any weapons , engines supplies...
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Have you checked the fighters only mounts? Their purpose is to decrease the size and the costs of components for fighters, including engines and weapons. It worked fine when I played with full-tech , although I was a bit surprised at first like you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

tesco samoa November 11th, 2003 10:50 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
hmmm the only mount available was normal mount

Fyron November 11th, 2003 11:23 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
What sort of race are you playing as? Also, you have to select a fighter size before the mounts will show up, as they are scaled mounts based on vehicle size.

Fyron November 11th, 2003 11:56 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
I have expanded the help documents to include a help file on fighters. The next Version of the mod will include it. But, I have stuck it Online so you can see it now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

http://adamant.spaceempires.net/help/

Ed Kolis November 12th, 2003 04:44 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
There don't seem to be any mounts for fighter supply storage... is this intentional? 5kT seems like a rather large quantum of space to devote to supply storage on a fighter - I'd think you should be able to cram in an extra 1kT worth if you want, or take 1kT away if you need the space for something else...

Fyron November 12th, 2003 04:51 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Sure there are, they just require level one in fighters tech. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ November 12, 2003, 02:53: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Atrocities November 19th, 2003 05:29 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Fyron can you also provide lists ranked by racial traits for Technology, Facility, Weapons, and other for all races. This will help a lot for setting up an AI to use the mod.

I would like to set up a few AI's to use the mod so that SP will have some bit to it.

Since you know the mod inside and out it would be best for you to provide the info. Thanks.

JLS November 19th, 2003 05:45 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
I made a list from the Last Adamant Version, I will update it for you and email it Atrocities.

Fyron November 19th, 2003 05:46 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

You can get a tech tree very easily. Just start up the game with each of the race types on high tech start and then export the in-game tech tree listing to a text file.

As for the rest, I would rather wait until the mod is a bit more complete before doing anything like that, as things are definitely bound to change drastically (especially with regards to weapons).

JLS November 19th, 2003 05:48 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:


As for the rest, I would rather wait until the mod is a bit more complete before doing anything like that, as things are definitely bound to change drastically (especially with regards to weapons).

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is the truith, I am pulling my hair out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[ November 19, 2003, 15:48: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron November 19th, 2003 05:50 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Well you just need one set of weapon families, as they are currently the same for all 3 race types... they are using the same weapons. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif And, the Physical race weapons are likely to remain with the same families. I might change the weapons a bit, but leave their families the same.

And, I just want a functional set of AIs right now; they do not have to be the best AIs ever yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ November 19, 2003, 15:50: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Fyron November 20th, 2003 05:39 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
There is some discussion about magic weapons for Adamant going on over on SE.net at:
http://www.spaceempires.net/home/mod...iewtopic&p=256

Feel free to stop by! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Atrocities November 20th, 2003 07:00 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:
I made a list from the Last Adamant Version, I will update it for you and email it Atrocities.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thank you JLS. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Ed Kolis November 20th, 2003 05:52 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Hey Fyron... I can't access SE.net, it just gives me a 403 permission denied error... even when I go to the main mage... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Alneyan November 20th, 2003 05:57 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
Hey Fyron... I can't access SE.net, it just gives me a 403 permission denied error... even when I go to the main mage... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I had the same problem this morning (that is to say, around midnight in the States), but now it works fine for me. Yesterday Posts disappeared as well, and now they are back. *Frowns* Was I daydreaming?

Fyron November 20th, 2003 05:57 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
I just sent a trouble ticket to the web host.

Fyron December 14th, 2003 07:18 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Just so you know, I am still *cough* hard *cough* at work with the mod. It is up to Version 0.13.20! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Adamant Mod 0.13.20 Patch

Version 0.13.20 - 9 December 2003:
Files Altered: CompEnhancement.txt, Components.txt
1. Fixed - 0-G space yards had a roman numeral that was one too high.
2. Fixed - Mana Resource Storage is now Radioactives Resource Storage.
3. Fixed - Radioactives Resource Warehouse is now Mana Resource Warehouse.
4. Added - 5x and 10x scaled armor mounts for Fighter, Satellite, Troop.
5. Added - 5x, 10x, and 100x scaled armor mounts for Weapon Platforms.

Fyron December 14th, 2003 07:19 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
So is anyone playing this mod other than the PBW games Adamant 010 and Adamant 011? If so, what are your comments/opinions on it?

Imperial December 14th, 2003 08:20 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Is it playable now in single player-- AI compatible and such?

Fyron December 14th, 2003 09:25 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Not yet, but soon. Hopefully.

Asmala December 14th, 2003 11:55 AM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
I found two bugs (or rather typos http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ):
-Graviton Hellbore has so long description that it's abilities doesn't show
-[%ShieldPointsGenerated] doesn't work in facilities, so Planetary Shield Array's description should be changed

Fyron December 14th, 2003 08:17 PM

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 
Version 0.13.21 - UNRELEASED:
Files Altered: Components.txt, Facility.txt
1. Fixed - Entertainment Network/Temple District now say "only 1 facility per planet effective" instead of "only 1 facility per system effective".
2. Fixed - Description of Entertainment Network had a typo in it.
3. Added - Entertainment Network/Temple District and Urban Pacification Center/Theater District now have ability tags that mention that they do not stack with each other.
4. Fixed - Reduced length of component description for Gravition Hellbores because it caused the text of the ability tag descriptions to be cut off.
5. Fixed - [%ShieldPointsGenerated] does not work for ability descriptions for facilities. All instances of it in Facility.txt have been replaced by the actual amount of shield points.
6. Fixed - Tower of Protection I had an extraneous ability.


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