Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

The opposite of being bored with the Balance Mod is to find yourself pulling an unlucky draw in planet distribution (with damaging warplines around you, etc.) I liken the Balance Mod to playing on the same 64 squares of a chess board...the board may be boring but the play changes in every game. And, at this point on the Hill, I think the pursuit is who's the best, not who's the luckiest.

I have no problem with the following settings (so far):

3 good planets;
No intel;
No mines;
and
Manual placement.

I propose:

No stellar manipulation; (because a game where the intent is to make the first opener and burrow past the front lines in a "riot run" attempt in the back lines shouldn't be the goal of the game);
ZERO racial points;
and
Balance Mod.

Your turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

I've been working on an update to the balance mod that brings a little more variety back in and yet still eliminates the worst of the really bad starts. I'd also like to have it allow for none races and bring back some moons. I've got some ideas that should work, but it will take some work. Might have it ready in a couple weeks.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

If nothing else, I suppose a Paradise quadrant should be very easy to set up, with no damaging wormhole and no empty systems (possibly no asteroid systems too).

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Always interested in something to make the Balance Mod a bit more enjoyable for those who deem it too boring http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

If the Balance Mod is too boring, then I suppose this option isn't too bad. After all, if we can't agree on parameters, then it's KotH defaults (LOL).

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Alneyan, if you use Fyron's Quadrant Mod(Standard) I believe it has some built in quadrant types like what you are describing with no dead systems.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

I'm playing my first game with the balance mod in the 2005 tourney and believe it or not, I find it confusing.

Instead of spotting a huge breathable with lousy numbers and building research facs. till the cows come home, I have to make a decision every time! Do I need mins or research? Both,of course! (So what else is new? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif ) Makes for a quite different game.

I had a plan when I started. It disappeared down one of the non-existent black holes at the first sign of trouble.

Can't say I really enjoy the mod, but I understand its purpose. If you can improve it Geo you have my full support.

***

And yes, FQM standard does have Paradise quadrants which is a good compromise between mid-life and balance mod.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Does this quadrant increase the number of planets (and moons)? I suspect it is the case, but all the quadrant types in FQM confuse me. I think it might also increase the number of damaging wormholes and their harshness (if I understand my system data files right).

I can see two ways to change KOTH defaults: it could either be a vote to put the Balance Mod (or something else) as default, or a compromise to use something else. I'd prefer the latter solution myself, for the happiness and comfort of all my subjects. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Exactly. My first game was stock, and my opponent was defeated by a rotten starting location. Balance mod should be standard for tournament games IMHO...

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Heh, in my first koth game 5/6 of the first systems I explored had either giant clouds of gas in various pretty colors or black holes. The 6th system had 2 tiny planets..

Needless to say, I lost and quick!

But I still say that the balance thing sounds a bit predictable. I would prefer a "paradise" start with Alneyan looking things over and starting us in reasonably good spots. But that might well be a bit of work and I know Alneyan to be a busy individual so I shan't demand it.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

All the other settings are fine tho so lets fiddle with this one a day or so more?

Definitely not looking for true randomness but also not seeking true non randomness, heh.

Rathar

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

I'd be willing to try a map Alneyan and Geo referred to.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Sounds good to me as well! Love to have some moons! They are verrrry handy for ship training! heh heh!

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Alneyan said:
Does this quadrant increase the number of planets (and moons)?

It wouldn't be FQM if it did not. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Alneyan said:
I think it might also increase the number of damaging wormholes and their harshness (if I understand my system data files right).

The game host could eliminate that by either:
1) temporarily replacing all occurences of "Unstable Warp Point" with "Normal Warp Point" in SystemTypes.txt- thusly eliminating all WPs with abilities.
2) setting the chance for Sector - Damage and Warp Point - Turbulence abilities in the "Unstable Warp Point" entry in StellarAbilityTypes.txt to 0 and increasing the chance for Ability 24 by whatever the sum of those ability chances was.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Do you want a full-fledged FQM map (more planets around, and various moons), or a milder map with Paradise characteristics? (No empty systems and no damaging wormholes, but everything else as default)

I can do either without any difficulty, along with pre-set starting points. I cannot check for balance, though: all I can say is that you won't start next to each other.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

I guess I don't really care...once we agreed on luck being thrown into the planetary setup, spending extra time tweaking this or that would seem to be a waste of your time. I'll roll up some empire tonight and you can roll up a galaxy tomorrow and get this thing started.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Soundsa good to me!

Empire uploaded

The Book of the Kingdom of the Hill, cont\'d
 

The long awaited...

often imitated...

never duplicated...

hope I don't get constipated...

Update to the Book of the Kingdom of Hill!

Here we go... I've included the old chapters for those that haven't been around a while, but I bolded the new stuff:


The Book of the Kingdom of the Hill

In the beginning the hill was dark and chaos reigned and all were embroiled in petty wars about it's base and sides and none was worthy to sit upon the throne.

And by the by did two step forward and through the right of victory over their enemies did lay claim the right to the mantle of the King. And thus did Preacherman face Geoschmo on the field of battle, and thus was Preacheman victorius and took his rightful place on the throne and Geoschmo was cast off into utter darkness.

And so Preacherman was the first true King and his reign was one of peace and light and all was well in the Kingdom of the Hill.

And by the by the good King Preacherman did grow old and feeble from lack of challenge, so that when a the Mighty Stone Mill finally rose from the depths of the Hill he slew good King Preacheman with his sword and a twist of his hips.

And Stone Mill the magnificent took his place upon the throne and was crowned the second King. And he looked upon his Kingdom and said, "Thank you, Thank you verra much."

And thus all was well in the Kingdom of the Hill and all it's citizens lived in safety for Stone Mill the Magnificent was a mighty warrior. Three times did challengers rise to face the Stoney one, and three times did he slay them all in their course.

Asmala the Wise, 1FSTCAT the Brave, and RexTorres the Strong did all seek the throne, and all were denied in turn for Stone Mill was truly the King.

But by and by did the King grow fond of looking at himself in the mirror and practicing his snarl and eating the royal peanut butter and nanner sandwiches.

And thus did a new challenger come from the Northlands. One who was a king in his own right in the land of his birth and born and bred to the task of fighting. And thus did Rollo raise his sword up to smite King Stone Mill. And as King Stone Mill lifted himself from his throne to face the challenge of Rollo, he did by and by slip on a nanner peel and was slain.

And thus did Rollo the Fearsome become the third King. And all was good in the Kingdom of the Hill, for Rollo had brought beer.

And Rollo did reign over the Kingdom of the Hill for the seasons that were appointed unto him. And the people of the hill were happy for the kegs that he did supply. But by and by there arose a challenger to the throne as Mark strode forth to try and claim the mantle of the King. And thusly did Rollo smite the challenger with a mighty thrust of his sword and the people rejoiced for they had discussed it and decided that "King Mark" did not quite have a regal sound to it.

But as quickly as Mark had been dispatched another challenger stepped forward. And he went by the name of RexTorres, which in the tongue of his forefathers is translated King, uh, Torres. And this brought forth anger in King Rollo that one should deign to go by the title that was only for he that sat on the throne of the hill, and they did clash.

For night after night did the battle rage as the people looked on. And when the smoke cleared there was a new King. Rollo did go out into the darkness to bind his wounds and ponder whether he would seek the throne another day. And thus did RexTorres the Strong ascend to the throne. And the people were satisfied for his name sounded suitably regal, but they mourned for there was no more free beer.

And verily did RexTorres look out over the hill and thus did a new challenger arise to face him. His name was Slynky the Quick, and he was clad from head to toe in shining armor and he raised his sword for to smite the King. But King Rex was a mighty warrior, and had grown fond of the throne and did not deign to give it up. And Rex and Slynky did battle, and in the end Slynky was defeated. And in the fight did Rex shred the armor of Slynky the Quick and broke his back in many places and smote him and he did fall down the hill, end over end. And the noise his armor did make and the appearance of him tumbling down the hill end over end was pleasing to the children of the kingdom, and thus was born a new toy consisting of a spring that would move as if walking down a hill, and thus it was named a Slinky, but that is a story for another book.

By and by did another challenger raise up to face King RexTorres. And he was a mysterious foe from the “Land of Too Many Consonants” named Bbgemott. And the battle was fierce and raged for many days and weeks. And there was much whining up and down the hill from those in waiting to take their shot at the throne. But the King and challenger did not trouble themselves with the inferior ones, and continued to fight, as was their right and duty. And in the end was King RexTorres slain and cast down to the bottom of the hill, and a new king was crowned. And thus did King Bbegemott the Mmightyy take his place on the throne of the hill, and the people were pleased, although they could not pronounce his name.

Annd lo ddidd the mmoodd of thhe ppeopple of thhe Kkingdomm of thhe Hhilll tturnn to vvexationn as thhe rule of Bbegemott thhe Mmightyy was hhardd. Fforr hhe llaidd ddownn mmanyy llawss of wwhichh the ppeopple were not ppleasedd, unttil at llastt he ddemandedd that all thhe names of the people shhouldd be cchangedd affterr thhe mmannerr of hhiss hhomelandd to bbeginn annd ennd wwithh ddoublle cconsonantss. So tthereforre ddidd thhe ppeopple ccryy out fforr a cchampionn and ffromm tthemm arrosse Asmala the Wise to sstandd up to Bbeegemott.

And verily did Asmala smite Bbegemott and take his place on the throne. So all across the land did the people rejoice, except for the printers of the moveable type, for they had already ordered extra consonants, and lo they could not get a refund.

The reign of Asmala was long, and though many challengers arose to face him, none could defeat him for, in addition to being wise, he was a mighty warrior, quite handsome of countenance, and exceedingly generous to the royal scribes in charge of writing the Book of the Kingdom of the Hill. Four times did Asmala face a pretender to his throne, and four times did he send them away in defeat and shame. Geoschmo the Weak, Spoon the Silver, Joachim(gezunteit), and Primitive the Loud, all in their course were soundly defeated by Asmala. And lo the people grew bored and wondered if Asmala would ever be defeated.

But all things come to an end, and thus by and by did a mysterious masked stranger step forward to try and claim the throne from King Asmala. The battle was fierce, as both warriors were obviously quite skilled, but in the end the masked stranger did prevail. At first the people rejoiced because they thought they had a new king, but then their rejoicing turned to disappointment as they realized the mysterious masked stranger was only RexTorres, he whom had been king before. And while the people had nothing personally against King Torres, they had kind of got their hopes up for something a little different. And though many people did wonder in their hearts why RexTorres had worn a mask, it surprisingly never came up in conversation and they felt a little awkward just coming flat out and asking about it.

And therefore did the day come when one would step forward to challenge King RexTorres to battle, for that is the way of the Kingdom of the Hill. So then did Master Belisarius rise up to face the king. Now Master Belisarius was one who was known to many as he had been a great master since days of the before time, when the Kingdom of the Hill had been known as the Land of Borg. He had been a mighty warrior in the Land of Borg, and had taught many in the Art of War. There was even a tale told that as a young man Belisarius had been a squire to the great Malfador himself, but this he would never confirm. So it was no great surprise when the Master dispatched RexTorres and took his place on the throne. And the people did rejoice.

And though did challengers arise to face the great Master Bellisarius, he dispatched them all in their times. First of them was Parabolize, the Quadratic who, while he was focused on the task, did not measure up to the Master. Then did Alneyan the Magnificent step forward to challenge the Master, and though he did go down before the Master Belisarius, by all accounts he did so magnificently.

But lo, just when the Belisarius did start to get comfortable with the throne on the Hill, there did arise a new challenger. For Slynky the Quick had returned, and the children of the Kingdom of the Hill were pleased for they wondered what new toy would be inspired by Slynkys demise this time. But to the surprise of the people of the Kingdom of the Hill, the Slynky one proved more than a match for the Master, and thus sent him back to the bottom of the hill and did take his place on the throne and was crowned, King Slynky.

Re: The Book of the Kingdom of the Hill, cont\'d
 

*Wild Applause!* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: The Book of the Kingdom of the Hill, cont\'d
 

I laughed! I *cried! It's **truely an ***epic!

* Well, not really.
** Ditto.
*** And ditto was his name-o.

But it is a good funny story.

Re: The Book of the Kingdom of the Hill, cont\'d
 

Between this small tome below (?) and Geo's newest game idea, I'd say the old boy's got a bad case of the "urge to write" ( http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif). I can relate.

Anyway(s), Geo's "Book" is just about the best part of KotH...riding in a close second to winning ( http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif).

Re: The Book of the Kingdom of the Hill, cont\'d
 

I somehow just noticed the book of the koth and I must say that I was wholly amused!

This particular game may take a while as it seems we have a large "small" universe to play in and without Stellar tech..

RathAr Kalinger
(who shall be known as a prince among spaceship captains. Been using the name since tradewars in bbs days. Liberal to the needy, a scourge to those on top!)

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Always a great read - the History of KOTH Hill :} Thanks for updating it Alneyan!

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

You're welcome. I know I'm a great chap. No, really.

There's a small problem, though. Geo is the one who does the History of the Hill, not me. I haven't even put the updated history on the website yet, though it should be the case by tonight (assuming my computer doesn't blow on me in the meantime).

Take this message as a "KOTH is to have been will updated".

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif Well, you are a swell chap, Alneyan. You put up with all our crazy game requests! :} Sorry to take the glory from ya, but Thanks Geo for the updated KOTH history http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Well, this is the second game I've played where I'm at, apparently, a disadvantage. If I understand it correctly, because I'm player ONE, anytime I create a design and then refit to it on the same turn, if player TWO also created a design, I'm screwed. The so-called PBW retro-fiting bug? Or is it the Simultaneous game bug?

As I was told, one must create the design one turn, then use it the next turn. This puts me at a disadvantage when every turn counts and I get a new ship item off the research line and I have to wait a turn to use it. EVERY item, I have to wait a turn.

This sucks and I don't remember having this many problems before and I've played PLENTY of simultaneous games over PBW.

This latest time, not only did all the retrofits get ignored, I lost minerals in reserve because I counted on the retrofits using them up instead of them just "going away".

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Slynky, there are two things I do on a regular basis to all but eliminate the problem.

Every time I create a design for a ship I am goign to build (Design name: Alpha) I immedietly copy the design (Design name: Alpha II). Both designs are identical, and I don't build any Alpha II's, so it stays in my design list as a prototype. When I want to upgrade Alpha later with new tech, I then edit Alpha II. You can safely retrofit to a design on the same turn you edit it, it's only on the turn it's created that you are at risk.

Secondly, early in the game I create several dummy designs which I don't use for anything. I even set their design types to Weapons Platform even though they are ships just to keep them out of the way on the list. These I use whenver I have an important retrofit and I have forgotten to do what I described in the previous paragraph, or if I need to retrofit ships of a single design to two more than one new design on the same turn. These are a little more painful to use since you have to edit the entire design, not just a couple components, but it's better then losing progress at an important point in the game.

Of course the downside to this is my design list gets tremendously bloated. It's not uncommon for me to have 50+ ship designs to wade through in a game. Of course obsoleting helps, but it's still a bit of a chore.

Geoschmo

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Well, someone will have to enlighten me then. Because, what's the difference between editing a design and creating a new one? If I have Alpha 1 (and I left 10 Kt unused on it) and built ships of Type Alpha 1, am I not editing it when I call it up, copy it, and save it with a different name? What's the difference between upgrading (where you have to give a new name) and copying and saving with a different name? Or is it a matter that it has to be a prototype?

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

When you create a new design, the game has to assign an internal ID for it. If two players create designs on the same turn, both designs will initially be assigned the same internal ID, and the conflict will be resolved when the turn is processed by changing one of them. Construction queues will be updated to the correct design ID, but any orders, including retrofits, that reference that ID will not be changed. For the player whose design gets its ID changed, any retrofit orders to that design will be interpreted as orders to retrofit to the other player's design and ignored as invalid. Since it is not supposed to be possible to even try to retrofit to someone else's design, there is no log message for this.

The Copy and Upgrade buttons create a new design in exactly the same manner as the Create New button. The only difference is that they automatically fill in what the original design had for you. As far as how internal ID's work, there is no difference.

When you Edit a preexisting design, the design already has its ID and all other players know this ID is already claimed. So, no matter what changes you make to the design, no other design will be created with the same ID, no conflict resolution will be needed, and no retrofit orders will end up referencing the wrong design. Editing can only be done on prototype designs that are not currently under construction anywhere.


One other thing you could try if you don't have a design free to edit into what you need for the retrofit is create a whole bunch of new designs, ending with the one you need to retrofit to. If you create 10 dummy designs and make the real design number 11, the first 10 designs anyone else makes in that same turn will have ID conflicts with the dummy designs, leaving your real design and its retrofits undisturbed.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Well, how does one edit a design and then save it? Or, where is the edit button?

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Edit is right below the copy and create buttons. It will only be available if the design you have selected on the left is a prototype. Furthermore, if it's a protoype that you have in a build queue, you will get an message when you click edit.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Hmm I read this a few times and I don't understand.. Never had this problem myself whether I am player 1 or 2. I feel it a bit important for me to understand since I am the player 2 in question.

Is there anything I can do to help you not get screwed over? Besides not designing ships that is? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Rathar

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Crap! Dimmed out on my PC so often I don't even notice it! Gamma must be set weird, too. Let me see how that works out.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Well, perhaps holding all attacks at least one turn? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

I thought we agreed upon no mines. While I will acknowledge that the game creator forgot to turn off that particular setting per our agreement, I figured it could be a gentleman's agreement instead of having the game re-rolled after more than 10 turns had been played.

Now I've lost 2 ships with training and taken damage I might not have taken at the planet had there possibly been more ships able to fire a first round into your platform.

Since mines can't be recovered, I'm also concerned about how many other places there are "illegal" mines over because (1) We agreed to no use mines and (2) I don't want to have to research and build sweeping ships to take with me and (3) My game plan has been laid out from the beginning assuming no mines.

Re: The Book of the Kingdom of the Hill, cont\'d
 

Mine fields can be self-destructed (not proper grammar, I know), though the same menu as other self-destruct/retrofit/fire on commands are given.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

I overlooked the item rather than forgot to turn it off in the settings. I know, the end result *is* the same. You have my apologies (not that they're worth much). I don't have a grudge against you, by the way, in case you're wondering why every single game you are in runs into some trouble, whereas virtually all other KOTH games are fine.

Feel free to ask a reroll. I would suggest setting up a mod seriously nerfing warheads, so they deal 1 damage to Shields only, or some such (they cannot affect Shields, and 1 damage is intended "just in case"). This mod would have to be used during play, though.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

35 turns in and me in first place? I don't think so. I was more concerned with what my opponent had to say and what he was going to do to make it right. Those 8 ships I attacked his planet with were intended to move to a more forward area but the loss of 3 ships makes this a questionable decision now considering I see 5 of his ships in the direction I planned to go.

Re: The Book of the Kingdom of the Hill, cont\'d
 

Thanks Renegade 13. Still learning this game, I confess. Never thought of self-destructing them.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

I meant a roll back to the turn before, and not starting over... though I'm not sure how going back one turn would work out.

Re: The Book of the Kingdom of the Hill, cont\'d
 

It's a tough call. You built your strategy around the lack of mines. Ratharkalinger spent research and resources setting them up. Neither of you is at fault, being an honest mistake on his part using the available tech compounding an honest mistake by the game owner allowing it. But no matter what you do from this point on, someone get's screwed.

Ok, now I'm done stating the obvious. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: The Book of the Kingdom of the Hill, cont\'d
 

Well, HE is the one who proposed NOT playing with mines so I figure if I can manage to remember and abide by the parameters he set out (and that I agreed to), so should he. When I first noticed, I started to say something to him but (1) I figured I could depend on him sticking to what we agreed to and (2) I didn't want to tip my hand that I had researched Construction (which leads to fighters). So, I stayed quiet.

I also assumed he was not using mines as I wasn't because we were into turn 35 and I had already glassed 3 other colonies starting as early as 15 turns ago!

As to wasting research on it, I'm not really concerned about any damage he may have done to himself by not adherring to the agreed-upon parameters (despite the option being alive in the game settings). I'll give an analogy: If me and another person agreed to a race using only our feet and no wheeled conveyance and the person setting up the course had mistakenly forgot to remove the bicycles from the footpath, I wouldn't get on one and peddle away.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

I know I have no real say here, but I agree with Slynky. If someone fails to abide by a rule and end up getting burned because of it, that's their own fault. Think of the lost research as compensation for Slynky's lost ships, and call it even - as long as an agreement is made for all remaining minefields deployed to be destroyed. Then again since I don't know the game, I don't know if 50,000 research points is equivalent to 3 trained ships at this stage.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Sorry if I upset you Slynky. You sound a little upset. Obviously I don't have all the information. You must have had some conversations via email about settings other than what you guys discussed here in the forum, because I don't see where he suggested no mines. I see where he said mines were fine and your next post said you guys had agreed to no mines, so obviously there was some offline conversation going on that I wasn't party to.

I was merely trying to point out that you weren't the only one negatively affected, and from the information I could see from the open discussion here it didn't look as if it was anything more than an honest mistake.

Honestly though I think you made a mistake not mentioning the fact that mines had been allowed as soon as you noticed it. You should never assume a gentlmans agreement. If you had brought it up then the game could have been restarted with very little pain, or you two could have agreed to continue and been perfectly clear on what the agreement concerning mines was to be at that point.

Please know that I am not blaming you, but all three of you have made mistakes here in my opinion.

I am coming from the perspective of a game owner rather than a player. If something is allowed by setting that could be disallowed by setting, then from my perspective it should be allowed in the game. If there is something you want to disallow by gentlemans agreement, that's fine, but you have to make those things clear as soon as they occur. That didn't happen in this case.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

First of all, Geo, I'm not angry with you. I figure you to be an honest and fair person. Much more than the average person.

Having said that, I merely disagreed with you in that if a person makes a mistake in a game, his damage to his game is not my concern. That's my opinion. That's all.

As to not being able to see where no mines were specified, please look to my quote where he said "things like mines were only temporary speedbumps". I took that to mean he favored taking mines out of the game so I specifically listed "No mines" in bold type in the portion of the game settings attributed to his suggestions. (then I added my suggestions below in bold in a different section I referred to as my proposal for settings)

And, once again, IN a game without mines, I chose to research fighters as a good early impediment to attacks. To have told him on, say Turn 10, that I discovered mines had been left in the game, any opponent could have discerned that I had researched Construction in order to see that mines were still available as a research item. AND, since I was reminding my opponent that mines were not allowed, I MUST have been researching Construction for another reason...well...fighters would be the best guess. I felt it damaged my strategy to give that kind of information at that point in the game. By the time he learned of my fighters (and lost 4 or 5 ships to 24 fighters), I had not seen any mines in the game. This was around turn 30 (give or take). At this point, after having glassed several planets already, I assumed (and perhaps that's where I made a mistake) he understood no mines were to be used as SURELY he would have been using them by now!

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Well, what he actually said was "Everything else can be on if you desire as I can build warp openers as fast if not faster than you can and things like mines are only temporary speedbumps." So he's not suggesting no mines as you thought, merely stating that he doesn't care either way.

Clearly though he agreed to no mines, as you suggested them in your next post and his later posts stated that your suggestions were acceptable. But it wouldn't be the first time someone agreed to something in the game settings without clearly reading them or fogetting them later.

You all made mistakes. The question is whether his mistake is somehow worse then your mistake. If not, then the solution to the problem shouldn't punish him exclusivly, as rolling back the turn and destructing all his minefields would do.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Well, in my opinoin, as you stated, he agreed to a set of parameters for the game. They were written in an easy-to-read format.

So, let's go over (possible) mistakes made by me and my opponent:

ME: I didn't remind my opponent of the settings we agreed to (because I didn't want to give away clues to what I had been researching in the game).

OPPONENT: Agreed to NO mines and then used them because he saw them as available after researching Construction.

I think it's clear who made the bigger mistake. I don't think there is any oness on me to remind my opponent of the rules we agreed to. On the other hand, I beleive there is clearly an oness on an opponent to adhere to settings agreed upon (even if the opportunity to get on a bicycle and peddle away appears).

If we can agree upon that, then who should be "punished" the most? Me? I don't think so.

But, perhaps we can debate this all day long and get nowhere http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif.

What I certainly don't want to see is mines staying in the game! I've patterned my whole structure without worrying about them. Leaving mines in would punish me for making the lessor of the mistakes. The only issue to debate, in my opinion, is what to do about my ships and my plan to advance. One possible solution is for him to fire on (and destroy) two of his ships in that system that give me reason to hesitate my advance (since it's 5 ships to 5 ships considering I lost 2 to mines). Had I been with 7 (or possibly 8) ships, I could advance without worry. Before you discuss the possibilities, I can tell you he has made heavy use of missile ships and I needed the PDs of more than 5 ships in order to advance safely (trained or not).

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

His infraction is not as clear as you make it out to be. You ascribe motive, seeing mines were allowed and using them despite agreeing not too, where simple neglect, forgetting that no mines were agreed to, could sufficently explain it.

On the other hand you saw that the game settings were misconfigured and made a concious decsision not to bring it up. Your motive was completely innocent, not wanting to give up strategy information, but you cannot claim that you simply forgot the setting as he can.

Your race analogy is flawed. It's not reasonable to think someone would simply forget that the race is a foot race. The person could split hairs and say "We never specifically agreed to NOT ride bikes.", but it wouldn't pass a common sense "BS" test.

Clearly there is no perfect solution. If I were the game owner, I would suggest a restart. Obviously though that will damage you in that the element of suprise of your fighters will be lost. You can come up with a new strategy for your next game though. He cannot get his research points back in this game if you were to continue though.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

Perhaps (although for reasons not divulged in public, I have my reservations). But let's get down to the real world...something that each of us must deal with each day. If you read and agree to something and sign it, the law doesn't care if you forgot. Your just WRONG. Simple as that. So, I don't care if he forgot or did it on purpose. He made a mistake that affected the game. Tell the cop you forgot what the speed limit was.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

No, I can't claim that but it's not my responsibility to remind the other player of settings that were agreed upon...especially when doing so hurts my game. Where's the fairness in that?

Re: Are you tough enough to be the \"King of the Hi
 

And I can't get my ships back, either.

But, to suggest a restart is unpalatable for the following reasons:

(1) I still maintain the bigger mistake was made by my opponent (whether he forgot or not) so I should not be "punished" the most. By the most, I mean put at a disadvantage of a restart for reason #2 below.

(2) Knowing how my empire is set up gives him more of an advantage. While I also know his, his setup is flawed (in my opinion) and it is he who would gain the most by knowing I have, for example, chosen Propulsion. This, is in ADDITION to knowing my propensity for fighters when mines are not available.

(3) The beginning of a game is boring as hell! I hate KotH default settings where you have to check off all the required research blocks and do all the required colonizing. But I do that in anticipation of an exciting middle and end game. Why else would you think I suggest full tech games so often? So, I don't want to do that again by throwing 35 turns away.