Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

That's it guys. I am done running Koth. It's been a hassle under good circumstances. When people start playing slow and ignoring emails and other people piss and moan about it and say they won't play those people I can't handle it anymore. The league can't work if it's only for people that play fast, and it can't work if people are going to set rules about who they will and won't play against.

I am going to setup some other ladder/league type thing in a few weeks, but it won't be a KOTH format. If anyone wants to take this dog over I will be happy to send you the files and you can put them on your website.

Geoschmo

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Well, I guess I am guilty of complaining about speed of play. Beyond that, I haven't complained about who I (might) play. But, I don't get your emails, Geo ( http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif ).

How to fix it? I don't know. I don't suppose I have the experience to deal with it. But, as usual, I have opinions.

(1) First of all, you da "heavyweight", Geo. People naturally like you and like to join up with "little contests" you come up with. So, for anyone else to step into your "shoes", I think they would have to be a "heavyweight", too. Otherwise, I fear, the enthusiasm would die out.

(2) How to fix it? I think I suggested somewhere else that there could be a KOTH slow (K-Slow) and a KOTH fast (K-Fast). (and people could belong to both). K-Fast running at 36-hour TA and K-Slow running at 72-hour TA. My feeling, if you can't manage a turn every 72 hours, you shouldn't even be playing PBW!

(3) Use auto-nag on the PBW setup to start "auto-bombing" the Last 8 hours of any turn cycle. (every hour)

(4) Rule: If any KOTH player/entrant (fast or slow) misses 3 turns during any game, the other player has the right to claim a win by "time forfeit". (after all, people play in chess tourneys by a clock) This reduces the labor the KOTH "manager" has to put into it by putting the responsibility on the players to inter-react with each other. For example, Player A misses his 3rd turn and emails his opponent and explains why. Then THAT player can decide if it was a good excuse or not and NOT opt for time-forfeit.

(5) Match-ups: If you get scheduled to play the same person you have played before, tough. That's the way it works on the "hill". Otherwise, there shuoldn't be any gripes. Just play at the speed you want to (K-fast or K-slow) and let the other rules above handle it.

(6) Set up parameters for permanent disbarrment for people who are habitual problem-children.

OK. So there are a few suggestions without thinking them through completely.

Having said all that, I would consider "running" it except for something I mentioned above. I don't want to find a host (I currently pay $60 / year for our host for our family website) and pay a fee, set up a site, and make an attempt to generate the same amount of interest only to find out (later) that people drift on to something else...more likely, something else you have come up with. The money isn't that big of a deal (heck, I've donated more than that to the PBW site...though it doesn't reflect it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). The problem is devoting the time to set it up and run it and have it all go for nought.

I sympathize with your feelings, Geo. And I apologize for being one of the people who added to the distress/stress.

[ April 27, 2003, 15:50: Message edited by: Slynky ]

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

For those interessted; I am the moaner. All I really have tried to do is get my f.. game of ALPU. It's hard to finish a game on ALPU when only 1 person plays. Each time I have complained, Geo sends EMPerror a mail and he does a double turn. I then wait 5-6 days, complains again and another double turn comes. EMPerror have ignored all my attemts at comunications, making it impossible to resolve this any other way.

Anyway, I am not part of the KOTH league anymore. This whole experience have killed my joy of the league, and almost of PBW too.

Good luck to you all in the future, hope you can save the league.

Primitive

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I guess I spoiled you with our game that did 61 turns in 4 days (just trying for a bit of humor, P).

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Primitive, you are not the reason I am giving up on running this. You were by no means the first or the loudest complainer. And I completely agree with you on your level of frustration over feeling ignored by EMPerror. Your issues was merely the straw that broke the camels back for me. I have just got my fill of arbitrating all the little disputes for what was supposed to be a fun little thing.

I intend to remain in the league as a player if someone wants to take it over.

Slynky, your ideas sound great, but do you think there are enough players to split up the league like that? It seems to me that you would end up playing the same four guys all the time. Not sure how much fun that will be. But that's nto really my call. If the new administrator, whoever that ends up being, wants to take a crack at your idea maybe it will work.

Geoschmo

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, I am sorry about that. Just one more of the things that has been neglected, partially becasue of the time spent running the Koth league.

Geoschmo

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I hear you, Geo. Ideas? Just stuff off the cuff (sorry for the rhyme). Same 4 players? Possibly. That's why I suggested that people could enter both the K-Fast and K-Slow. As it is, there are 29 players in KOTH. I wouldn't consider that a lot looking at all the forum members. So, potentially, that could be a problem.

Or, just run one KOTH league at 36-hour TA. If you can't keep up, don't enter.

I could be wrong...like THAT ever happens, but it seems to me the "regulars" are the participants. People who have been playing a long time and who are looking for a different kind of game (and the resulting challenge). It may be that a lot of "casual" PBW players are intimidated. I dunno. Personally, I like the challenge.

BUT, for whomever has the desire to try and make it work, they will have to compete with your ladder/league thingie. The sort of people who enter these kinds of things only have so much time to participate. I suspect they would choose what is popular and that could possibly mean "where you go, the players go". (leaving whoever tried to keep KOTH going with a dwindling audience).

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Geo, speaking of a ladder or league, you will still have to contend with slow players and incalcitrant players. What do you have planned to handle that? And why couldn't any ideas you have for that be applied to KOTH?

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The biggest problem with the Koth league is that each person is required to play with one specific person, or to forfeit. And you can only be in one game at a time and so are at the mercy of your opponent as far as completing the game in a timely manner and getting a record of it. The new league will not have these limitations. People will be able to play as many games simultaneously as they can handle. And you will not be forced to play against someone if you have personal issues with them. Also there will be the capability of having games with more than two players. These three points will expand the base of players willing and able to participate, but cannot be incorporated into KOTH without fundamentally changing the structure of the format. It wont be Koth anymore.

Geoschmo

[ April 27, 2003, 19:33: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, I'm not Geo, but I think I can answer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Those ideas can't be applied because of the differences in format of KOTH league and ladder systems. It is possible to play only one game at a time in KOTH. However, the same player can play many games in ladder system. So, if any players feel like their games are going too slow, they can challenge more players to play with. I think there will not be such a problem in ladder.

Just trying to be helpful http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

EDIT- Must type faster http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 27, 2003, 19:40: Message edited by: BBegemott ]