Re: Magic Items under CBM
 

Swords of swiftness are great because they both add def and counter def. With reasonable strength they turn thugs into confetti while keeping you alive. Even better when you dual wield them and crazier still if you're quickened - it adds up to such a huge def disparity with the opponent that they'd need really, really nice attack to get through and must have high prot to avoid being diced.

Re: Magic Items under CBM
 

U can also dual wield the brands:)
But i see,having 8 attacks vs 4 attacks there is quite a difference indeed.
You surely got already quite some niche uses for SoS therefore.
So its certainly not a must to change it.
Maybe 1 more damage and/or 1 more defense(thematically) for the price?

Dual wielding omits shield ...having just read through the combat mechanics again,those shield hits seem to be pretty strong and nice to have,though.And shields add defense,too.

Btw,did i understand it right,that flails/morningstars not only add 2 att vs shield,but also ignore them completely when damage is dealt,thus no shield hits possible?

Re: Magic Items under CBM
 

I did not intend to say that it was fine, merely that I did not really understand what you found wrong with it. My understanding now is that you want the fear but could not care less about the pillaging. Is that correct?

I am of the opinion that if something is really worthless, then it should not be present in the stats of an item - the story around it may be a different thing. And if you remove the pillage bonus from the axe, I do not really see it as the same axe anymore. Conceivably I could be convinced otherwise.


I was thinking more in the line of theme preserving.

As you may have noticed I proposed an increase in defence, not in damage. And I see a repel weapon as rather defensive. I mentioned attack earlier as well, because each increase of 2 there, would make another repel attack likely (morale save remains the same). Thus in keeping with the theme while making the weapon noticeably better.


I do not think it is so worthless that it lacks any meaning. It is of rather small use, sure, but certainly not negligible. If you are swamped in opponents, I can see it, but against single or few it can matter. Consequently it should be a factor in balancing.


I do not know that it is the ideal chassis, it was just the first thing that sprang to my mind. There are other strong commanders in the game that do not have 0 encumbrance. And if you have access to them, summoning undead thugs may just not be very efficient. If you have so many thugs that you have trouble decking them out, summoning more that are not any better than the ones you already have is not going to help much.

However that may be, if an item functions in a niche - though small - I do not think it needs any big boost. I like a few seldom used niche items in the game.

It is also not really a question of you not having any other gems than death gems, it is a question of not having enough other gems to cover all your needs. That happens to me a lot in my games at least.

Sure, I can think of what I would like to forge for my commanders, but if I do not have enough of the right gems, I have to make do with items that would be suboptimal given another gem distribution. And sometimes paying a bit more for an effect now nets you a better position than waiting and hoping for the future to line up nicely in keeping with your vision of reasonable gem income and expenditure.




No, not if you are constrained more by nature than by death. We have been over this.

I remain unconvinced by the argument that since death is powerful, we might as well make it more powerful.


No, 2 reinvig does not really change it as far as quicken goes. And the shield is the one the Fomorian King comes equiped with.

Sorry, I was under the impression that the boots cost 5 gems, that is certainly what I used in calculating how many death gems it represented. If not, exchange them for a 5 gem reinvigoration item. Of course, you will then get less invigoration out of it.


Not necessarily, no. If you are getting the thugs anyway, say by way of recruiting them from your capital, paying more for their equipment now may be more beneficial.



Looking at the thread this far, I do not really see any point to discuss further about the Wraith Sword as things mostly seem to go round and round (my own arguments included). I remain unconvinced, but I am not so stubborn as to not recognize that I seem to be the only one not thinking the sword needs a major overhaul. And I do not wish to take over the thread with a lost cause. I will happily give answers about my views on the Wraith Sword if someone directs a question to me explicitly, but otherwise I will keep my views to myself.

Hope that is agreeable to everyone.

Re: Magic Items under CBM
 

yes,you are right.I was somehow under the impression the boots are 10N.Sorry for this.

I hope you will still take part in the discussion about the brands since the opinions seem to differ much more there.

Re: Magic Items under CBM
 

Sombre hit it for me.

To elaborate: I don't see how you can compare 7 damage to ANOTHER FULL ATTACK and come out on the side of 7 damage as being universally better. The CR on the brand is often useless since undead are already 100% CR, and the AoE doesn't beat a second swing in many cases in terms of chaff control. Additionally, the SoSwiftness is the best (non-unique) defensive 1-hander you can get.

It's not a weapon for weak, cheap raiders, it's a weapon for nice SCs that have enough strength to really administer beatdowns with each swing, even if they're just using a toothpick. At that point the 4 extra gems over a frost brand for the 2 points of defense and ability to really multi-attack your opponent's defense down starts to look like a great deal. Pair with chi shoes for yet more defense and you get 3 attacks for a full square-clear each action against the common size-2 chaff. (Including skelspam, which a frost brand sucks against.) Oh, and add weapons of sharpness from a support mage and the extra attack really leaves the slight bonus damage from the brand in the dust since it increases the damage-prot differential substantially.

Re: Magic Items under CBM
 

Micah,good points.
I still would mainly niche use it dual wielding with ambidextrous thugs/Sc`s.
Dont forget that the frost brand got 4/2 att/def.So the first strike is more likely to hit than the first strike of the SoS.
That way,you might get more often the full 16 damage with the brand ,whereas the SoS profits a lot more from every subsequent attack,missing the first 9 damage here and there.
But,to exploit that, u gotta dual wielding it ,missing out the shields...it essentially becomes a 2h weapon for 10 W gems then.
Certainly not a underpowered one ,though,thats sure.

Re: Magic Items under CBM
 

You can't remove the pillage bonus from the axe.

Re: Magic Items under CBM
 

Ok,since i will be away for 1-2 days soon,i will summarize what we got so far:


1-Handed Items

-nerfing the Fire and Frost Brand is undecided

-improving Sword of Swiftness is only of minor importance,if at all

-making the Shadow Brand stronger and more expensive seems declined

2-Handed Items

-improving Wraith Sword by quite a lot is accepted

-certain other 2h items need to be improved is accepted

Shields

-Vine shield being overpowered is undecided
(how does the strength check exactly work?)

Uniques

-making fever fetish non-unique is declined

- the need for a new easier available earth booster is accepted
(personally i like the idea of making the tome of gaiea non-unique and naming it e.g. bloodroot manual(like sombre said) very much)

Re: Magic Items under CBM
 

I would like to point the discussion now towards the Hell Sword a bit,i mentioned it already in the opening post.
Its certainly better than its "Death cousin" at the moment,but still underpowered imo.
And if you make the Wraith Sword stronger,u gotta make the Hell Sword stronger,it feels.
I do share some concerns here though,that have been brought up for the Wraith Sword.
Fire and Blood magic is only for some nations and Blood is easily massable.That way,the Hellsword could easily be made overpowered.

Current stats are:
15 Blood/10 Fire , 3/0 Att/def,9 damage
Partial Life drain,FR 50%,Berserk +3

Its the special effects that make it better than the WS,but the raw point values are slightly worse,simply too bad for a heavy 2 handed weapon,meant to be Construction 6.
I think one of the following ideas would be thematic:

1.Increasing attack to 6 or 7,maybe increasing damage in addition,to like 12-14
or
2.making it Armor piercing and maybe increasing attack to 4-5

What do you think?

Re: Magic Items under CBM
 

My thinking was more in the line of effectively removing the axe and creating a new weapon with fear and the same look, but no pillage bonus.

Is that not possible?