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Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy

Hear, hear, another awe-inspiring strategy comes up.

We iz gonna stomp da 'ooniverse flat an' kill anyfing that fights back. We iz gonna do this coz' we're Orks an' we was made ta fight an' win.
Orkses is never beaten in battle. If we win we win, if we die we die so it don't count as beat. if we runs fer it we don't die neither, so we can always come back for anuvver go, see!

(Ork speech files)

EDIT: Sorry, Quik. I meant the post before yours.

[ 26 February 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Quikngruvn:
[QB]

So I think a ramming ship will not ram a ship with shields. I have not tested this, but it is food for thought.... <hr></blockquote>

Ships full with organic armor don't care about shields from my observations. I have not tried the warheads so far, maybe the behaviour of the ram ships depends on the prospect of survival ? I think the calculation could be something about a comparison of the damage resistances. The only problem in strategic combat is, they do not ram colony ships, planets and maybe some more.

[ 27 February 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy

"OVERWHELMING FORCE. Brutal, direct, unsurmountable FORCE."

I really do hate to break it to you, but it's not overwhelming. One planet. 15 weapons platforms armed with 2 CSM1, 3 DUC I. More often than not, those WPs smash the attacking fleet- 15 of your assult escorts armed with DUC IVs- flat. Oh, and they build FASTER than your ships, which means there will be more of them (except on small, outlying colony worlds).

I did a test scenerio.
Settings: 2000 racial points, no advanced trait. Maxed maintance reduction, high research bonus, enchanced minerals and construction. Low tech start, one planet.

Built two bases, then started cranking out ships.
Turn 1.1: DUC II attack ships finished, supply ships finished. Retrofit begings to DUCIII.
1.5: retrofit complete

Now, at this point finances are OK, so it looks like paying for the ships is not a problem. However, you have no idea where the nearest empire is. I assumed the nearest empire would be in the second habitable system I found. Time of arrival: 2.5.

OK. So let's assume there's another empire out there in a more defensive posture, and you find him. He uses the same racial stats as you. Assuming he built two construction bases, used those to expand, and turned his homeworld to building WPs, he has twenty-one WPs before you even launch your fleet. Then his homeworld slows down (emergancy build expires).

He continues to expand.

On the turn you launch your fleet, he has:
4 colonies, 3 with 4 WPs each
21 WPs on his homeworld
And a scout ship already out.

By the time your slow attack fleet arrives, it's already dead.. it just doesn't know it yet.

Oh, and speed 6 CSMI armed ships will tear apart your assult ships quite easily, if he went for ships instead of weapon platforms.

EDIT: heh. I just did a test- took your assult ship design armed with DUCVs against a CSMI armed speed 6 ship. Both escorts. One side had 15 ships (DUC) the other 13 (CSM).

I've been running it through SE4's simulator, and the DUC ships have yet to win. Best they've managed to do is kill 3 of the other ships for a loss of 6 of their own. Often they are wiped out without killing a single CSM ship. That's with tech AND numbers on the side of the DUC ships!

EDIT2: Shield 1, Combat Sensor 1 ECM 1 DUC I speed three light cruisers fare much worse- about the same as the DUC escorts vs the CSM escorts. But replace those DUCs with CSM1, and again the balance shifts. Four light cruisers can kill 15 assult escorts. The light cruisers take a little more research, but much much less cash.

But hey, let's not talk theory too much http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . Up for a game?

EDIT2: I'd propose the PBW server's Universe Cup map for this. Two players, no AI, 2000 points, one starting planet, low tech.

Phoenix-D

[ 26 February 2002: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy

And another factor in this test is the distance between the homeworlds. So I guess were talking small map.

moves 3 squares per turn. SO that's 4 turns per system. So this fleet at turn 12 to turn 16 will leave its homeworld and travel for at least one turn out of its homeworld system. Stop at the warp point. so now were at turn 14. turn 15 to turn 19 travelling across the next system. Turn 20 to turn 24 the next system. And turn 24 to turn 28 on the next system. So if your lucky you might meet some one on turn 29 if not anoter 4 turns go by and your fleet is starting to get low on supplies. ( And this stuff might take a few turns to start if your fleet is retrofitting slowly so lets say you start this adventure on turn 20 ) and what do you get rid of to fit the ecm and pd's escorts have a 150 kt size.

A few destroyers with capital ship missle level one set at max range would clobber you. Or 10 mines at a warp point.

How about a base yard with 50 kt on vech control and the rest on missles (9) of these would end your fleet.

Or 1 planet 10 swp with 10k on command and 3 missles and 1 pd or level 1 duc with 2 base yards over top.

The fleet dies every time. Their too slow. Combat speed of 2.

And all that can be build easily before turn 20. With 2 space yards out there.

Can you post the results from your testing ??

Perhaps we can learn off each other here.

And the PD with the warp weapon. That is classic.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I will be using that one. I always used them with tractor beams and nul's or ppb's and then the warp weapons ( in that order, you can really tick someone off that way). But the PD -warp combo is classic.

Learn something new every day

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy

I remember, one of the TDM races has got a PDC strategy, I will take a look into the ai files tonight. Maybe Romulans, Klingons or Drakol.

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy

All you guys are missing the boat on this one.

Killer strategy for ship design:

Escort. As much beam firepower as you can fit. For instance, early game get an escort with:

x3 engines
x3 cannons

If you give a significant bonus to research in your racial points, you will literally have upgradeded cannon tech in one turn. What I did was give a sigificant bonus to research and a huge bonus to lower maintenence. You have to be smart to work the game system, foklks. And I made my people hard workers.

Step two, build a space yard base or two (with my stats it took one turn for each one) and start pumping these escorts out ( I call them Assault) with emergency build. Once you have 12-15 of these, build 4-6 supply ships. Once you're done with that, you will have several upgraded levels of cannons. Retrofit.

There you go, a force that cream anything in battle at this stage of the game. You don't even have to run tactical combat, the firepower is so overwhelming none of yoru ships is in danger of really dying.

Once you get repair bays, send these ships along with the fleet to give them staying power. You will defeat any player, AI or human this way.

After twenty or so turns of a game, how are you supposed to defend againt an enemy that shows up to combat with 45 advanced guns? In ONE combat turn with several of such assault vessels hammering a frigate it will be killed or near-dead. Even a cruiser will be severaly damaged in ONE turn, in which it only manages to severally damage or kill one of your many ships. Of course, the next turn it has a only a few guns left so it's effectiveness is basically nill. In the twenty or so turns it took to build this fleet, you would NEVER EVER be able to build a fleet of larger ships that have the same level of firepower and overal effectiveness.

Too many people bother with nonsense that doesn't matter, like armor, sheilds, engines, etc. Guys get with the program. THIS is the ultimate forumla for ship design:

0. ESCORT full size
1. MINIMUM crew facilities
2. Three engines
3. Three rail guns
4. ECM (when you're advanced enough to fit it)
5. Point-defenses (when your're advanced enough to fit it)

You might ask why ECM and PD and not another gun. That's because they actually make a difference. Avoiding being hit makes yoru fleet overall more effective overall, AND you have to have space for PD, which is extremely important to have once the enemy starts going wild on missiles. A swarm of assault vessels with PDs will massacre to death ANY missiles or fighters.

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy

The wormhole/warppoint beam. It moves the target to a random (unoccupied) square, anywhere on the combat map. Usually more effective than a repulsor beam, although it sometimes makes the situation worse http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy

Hey GUTB where did you go...???

Re: newby\'s guide to ship and fleet strategy

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Hey GUTB where did you go...???<hr></blockquote>

He is still driving his mighty armada at 3 miles per month along the interstellar highway bypass and will be arriving shortly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif