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Re: My AI Design Q&A

I have TDM (AI CONSTRUCTION VEHICLES DATA FILE - Cue Cappa)

Rollo,
Would this be your design to reference?

[ June 23, 2003, 22:32: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: My AI Design Q&A

Well, the Cue Cappa are a rather old AI. I think the best reference of my design would newer designs like the TDM United Flora or any of the newer Devnull Mod AI (United Flora, Sonne, Xi'Chung, Ukratal).

Re: My AI Design Q&A

Quote:

Originally posted by Rollo:
I would suggest the following groupings:
1) Exploration

2) Infrastructure, Defend (Short Term) - this is your main game plan. Depending on the plan for your AI you could include Exploration as well. I have done that a couple of times lately.

3) Prepare for Attack, Attack - I use this mainly to churn out warships and with higher priority for troops and transports. But it really depends on the overall strategy of your AI what you do here exactly. High priority for fighters, carriers and fleet support ships also work good here as well as building more mine sweepers. Like I said, it mainly depends on the AI game plan.

4) Not Connected - Besides from the obvious Open Warp Point ship also make one Create Planet ship.

5) everything else - don't bother with this queue too much. Other AI states than the ones already covered are very rare.

Hope this helps,
Rollo

I had noticed this pattern in your UF, Vikings, and Cue Cappa. Thanks for interpreting it and telling me the logic behind it.

I was going to separate Defend (Short Term) from Infrastructure because the former implies a slight to moderate enemy presence while the later implies relative peace. When I actually get down to the details though, the queues might be similar enough to merge.

Also, I think JLS makes a good point about needing a few extra colony ships fast for the brief period you are in the Secure Holdings after Attack. Although it's a rare state, it only takes a minor effort to copy the attack queue and move colonization up in priority and location. (Feel like I need to thank gandalph again for giving me the link to renumber.exe, what a time saver).

Re: My AI Design Q&A

Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:
More fuel for thought
AI State := Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion

The interesting aspect of the default combined AI strategic state of Secure Holdings After Attack and Incursion, is that in in both these States, your AI will immediately MUSTER ships that are already available, to include the ships that are already nearby for your AI to direct towards that TARGETED system.
All in the same while, your AIs Ship Yards are cranking out the needed support ships and replacements for either mission, and if you really think about it. Both missions require the exact same needs .

Could you elaborate on this, JLS? As I understand it now, the Secure state is to move into a conquered AI system, take hold and make it your own. Hopefully the AI is also priming for another prepare/attack/secure sequence of events. As such I was thinking of a queue similar to the attack states, but with a little bit more colonization.

The incursion state I thought was like a minor harrasment of the enemy. I grouped this with the more aggressive attack states because if I have the power to harass, I want to build up the power to attack. Hopefully more force will enable the AI to go through an attack instead of just an incursion. However, does a switch to incursion occur when I want to flood and co-colonize an enemy system? Only then can I see it being so similar to the Secure State, but again I would probably prefer to attack it if possible.

Re: My AI Design Q&A

I would suggest the following groupings:
1) Exploration

2) Infrastructure, Defend (Short Term) - this is your main game plan. Depending on the plan for your AI you could include Exploration as well. I have done that a couple of times lately.

3) Prepare for Attack, Attack - I use this mainly to churn out warships and with higher priority for troops and transports. But it really depends on the overall strategy of your AI what you do here exactly. High priority for fighters, carriers and fleet support ships also work good here as well as building more mine sweepers. Like I said, it mainly depends on the AI game plan.

4) Not Connected - Besides from the obvious Open Warp Point ship also make one Create Planet ship.

5) everything else - don't bother with this queue too much. Other AI states than the ones already covered are very rare.

Hope this helps,
Rollo

[ June 23, 2003, 14:17: Message edited by: Rollo ]

Re: My AI Design Q&A

Originally posted by cybersol:

Quote:

JLS?
As I understand it now, the Secure state is to move into a conquered AI system, take hold and make it your own.

TRUE

Quote:

Hopefully the AI is also priming for another prepare/attack/secure sequence of events. As such I was thinking of a queue similar to the attack states, but with a little bit more colonization.

You did not present a scenario here, but from the Secure Holdings State, and your AI Targets system has been secured:

-

Please refer to Definitions and Actions.

When in the Secure Holdings State and that newly conquered System is now totally secured; your AI will revert back to ~(B) Infrastructure State...
And your AI, may start the process all over again, beginning from ~(B) Infrastructure State

-

Quote:

The incursion state I thought was like a minor harrasment of the enemy.

True, at any and or ALL Enemies Systems/Territories of opportunity; with only a few parameters and safeguards.

Quote:

I want to build up the power to attack. Hopefully more force will enable the AI to go through an attack instead of just an incursion.

The results with the set up you have would be interesting.

Please remember, Prepare to Attack will only be triggered if there is a vulnerable target System near. IIRC, (Not more 2 systems away). As not to string out the AI fleets.
However, In the Prepare to Attack State; Your AI needs to prepare your Attack Fleets with all the needed ships for that Attack, to fulfill at least these two requirements

1: Forces are now ready to attack
2: Target System can be conquered
Just for the minimum chance to get to the, Attack State

I am unsure of how many base yards you will be operating, with your se4 AI. Could you indicate the expected amount? After the first 51 turns, but before the 70th Turn? (2 BSY or 3)
Attack Ships (many)
Units (optional, but recommended)
Carrier (loaded)
Troop Transport (loaded)
Drone Carrier (loaded) (if desired)
Kamikaze Attack Ship/Aux
Boarding Ship/Aux
Mine Sweeper (placement depends on AI Settings)

Support Ships
Colonizer: (IMO) Not a priority in the Attack States at least one, late.
Layers: not recommended at all.

This, all must be done with out taking to long to prepare.

Now for the actual Attack State to take, your AI must pass the requirements in the Previous post.
=
Sorry, it took so many words to get to this point. With to few words in the First post, on Incursion.

If you have the Incursion State with the Attack State, this does not mean your AI State will automatically change to the Attack State, and you may already no this, sorry, if that was the case.
You will remain in the Incursion State and build every ship on this Prepare to Attack list.
Until:
For a your worse case scenario.Lets not consider, Defend Short Term State, were an enemy entered your territory.
1: Enemy forces destroyed and you win.
2: Target system to well defended, and you lose.
There is no time limit in this State.
Therefore, you will build what ever is on that Prepare to Attack State, List. In addition, to all this implies. Until, condition One or Two is meet, this may be awhile and you really may not of needed many if any of these builds to complete the Incursion mission/s.
Because the AI, all ready calculated, to use what localized Ship or Ships it had available to it, when it decided, this attempt to wreak havoc, with-in the enemies Territories.

Quote:

However, does a switch to incursion occur when I want to flood and co-colonize an enemy system?

No, a switch, to the Incursion, will only happen, as I posted below from Scenario (B) Infrastructure.
===
When either 1 or 2 is satisfied:
1: Enemy forces destroyed and you win.
2: Target system to well defended, and you lose.
Your, AI will revert from Incursion State back to (B) Infrastructure State and may reconsider another Incursion, or even a Prepare Attack;
When,
-

� Enough time since the Last Attack has passed from your AI Settings File (XiChung @ Turns to Wait until next attack := 6) then your AI WILL consider from (B) Infrastructure State again, for an Attack or an Incursion�

-
And now, that you just invested, in Actuality a Prepare for attack (when a Incursion was the call). Can you say that your AI can afford another tumble thru Prepare for Attack, again, and again? Please consider, will you have exotic ships like the Planet or System Destroyer, etc� In the Prepare for Attack.
If not, then were would you request them?

In regards to Colonizer flow after a, successful or unsuccessful Incursion. The follow-up Colonizers will come from the Infrastructure State.

You also may have colonizers that were built in your Prepare Attack,Attack,Incursion setup

Or that would have been built, with a healthy Coloizer PPI/MHAL in the:
AI State := Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Please consider the possible event that a military ally or two, could have fueled the Ships used in your AI�s incursions.

Quote:

Only then can I see it being so similar to the Secure State, but again I would probably prefer to attack it if possible.

The Secure Holdings State will only arise from a newly conquered System, as a result of the Attack State. This was preceded by a Prepare for attack State; a vulnerable target System that was not more then 2 Systems away triggered that.

==

Also, please note , at some point in this AI�s game, this nearby System WILL be some Players Home System, that your AI WILL be considering the Prepare for Attack State; that may decide the game.

Alternatively, it could be your AI�s Home System, which Will be considered for a Prepare for Attack. Vulnerable and not more then 2 Systems away from another AI Player in that same (B) Infrastructure States, and now it is your AI, that WILL be considering, Prepare for Defense State; that WILL decide the game.

Believe it or not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

=================================================

The AI strategic state of Secure Holdings After Attack and Incursion, is similar in that, both these States your AI will immediately MUSTER ships; that are already available.

One Last consideration, for this format.
AI State := Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion

If combined, it is extreamly flexable, and often returned to by your AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The only ships you really need is:
Attack Ship (a few or many)
Colonizer (on par with reasonable explore numbers)
Defense Ship (only a few light Hulled, recommended)
Units.
Mine Layer
Satellite Layer
Population Transport
A few more Attack Shps if you feel little more padding, or any builds you feel may be to your AI's best interest.

[ June 26, 2003, 12:54: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: My AI Design Q&A

Originally posted by JLS:

============================

On average the most AI State Changes, from the Exploration State is to:
1: Defend Short Term State
2: Infrastructure State
3: Not Connected State

Ok, from the first Exploration State; your AI just went into Infrastructure State, as we have previously discussed, by either (A)or(B)

A: Your AI had an agreement with another Player and Your AI no longer had Systems, reasonably close to Explore, your AI would go into the Infrastructure State.

If (A) was the only Variable, the AI or AI�s will live happily ever-after. Remain in Infrastructure and (may) Consider Not Connected State, at some point.

However, ALL: AI Settings Files, Anger Files, Politics Files and Accept Treaties; WILL always be in play. It is probable at some point, that/those AI may not like; living happily ever-after forever, and break the (Existing Treaty with the other Original Player)

===

B: If there is an Enemy Near but not in the Claimed Territory, then your AI may go into Infrastructure State

If (B) is the only variable to consider, and other Player had no agreement, then from the Infrastructure State.

If the Enemy Players System are Nearby, the AI may Consider the Prepare Attack State then to consider the actual * Attack State.
(This is why continuing a new game, when you start next to Psychos, like the XiChung; is not usually a winnable choice, in any se4 Game)
-
The AI may just consider the Incursion State early with a quick Muster, if that AI considers the enemies systems, is not well defended.
---
(C):The AI (may) Consider a Prepare for Defense State.
If the (adjacent system vs. Home/System) Ship strength numbers are not even near favorable
====
((D)): If your AI, IS IN any State mentioned above, and ANY ENEMY Player has entered your territory, then your AI WILL Change to Defend Short Term State for a few turns :

Your AI will now; analyze its current Situation, IF-THEN :

IF enemy is still in its territory after a few turns go by, it will remain in the Defend Short Term State * that may continue to * Prepare for Defense State, and in the end; to Defend (Long Term) State. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
-----
Until:
(E) Enemy is NOT IN that AI�s territory and there are NO Systems to Explore; then your AI may revert to the ~(B) Infrastructure State

FROM (E)to(B)THEN and IF , Enough time since the Last Attack has passed from your AI Settings File (XiChung @ Turns to Wait until next attack := 6) then your AI WILL consider from (B) Infrastructure State again, for an Attack or an Incursion

(F) However, from Defend Short Term, if no enemy is in that AI territory, or nearby and there are Systems to Explore still; then your AI may revert all the way back to the Exploration State and start the above process, from the Scenario you presented; all over again.

========================================

* ~Tip~ * (IMO) To maintain the continuity and the transition to the next AI State; designers may want to stay with the default format intact for both:

AI State := Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)

(AND)

AI State := Prepare for Attack, Attack

---
Also (IMO FWIW):
Absolutely, a deviation from the from the above Format, may yield some FUNKY results, but this may also, lead to a distortion of the intended MODs, logical and total Combat (or Design TYPE) Ship totals.
It may also lead, to the dreaded Defend (Long Term) or just to stay stuck in Defend (Short Term); and/or resulting in no logic.
===========================================

Definitions and Actions:

AI Defend Short Term Strategic State:
This would be the first stage for the AI Player, to boot the other Enemy player out of his territory and for that AI to analyze its current Status for that current Situation
(Continues for about 5 turns. Then this AI will make a decisive decision; for the next State Change) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
As outlined in ((D)),(E), and (F).
-

AI Prepare to Attack State:
AI considers a nearby enemy system is weak and could be conquered. Your AI will now prepare a Fleet/Fleets and get ready to attack that system.

AI Attack State:
Your AI will now consider this to be a valid and doable Attack, if so, then the AI will attack that Enemy System and attempt to conquer it.

In both the above, Prepare for Attack, Attack States, your AI has some save guards, so your AI may revert to various other states, however, the State you DO want to see, as the next change, is the:

Secure Holdings State
Your AI�s attack has been completed and it was VICTORIOUS. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Your AI will send in ships to secure the system (a few pre-built defense ships will do well here, if any planets were captured +Happy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif , and your AI will now want to colonize any empty planets� http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
This is were your next best Colony Expansion Policy, should reap, the next best and safest rewards http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

When in the Secure Holdings State and that newly conquered System is now totally secured; your AI will revert back to ~(B) Infrastructure State...
And your AI, may start the process all over again, begining from ~(B) Infrastructure State http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Also note: If any Enemy enters any Territory, also from the Secure Holdings State.
Your AI will revert, briefly; to the ((D)) AI Defend Short Term Strategic State:
To re-evaluate
=
===
=
Any questions, please don�t hesitate to ask.

Continure next post

[ June 24, 2003, 23:19: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: My AI Design Q&A

Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:
And now, that you just invested, in actuality a Prepare for attack (when a Incursion was the call). Can you say that your AI can afford another tumble thru Prepare for Attack, again, and again? Please consider, will you have exotic ships like the Planet or System Destroyer, etc� In the Prepare for Attack.
If not, then were would you request them?

So let us say my AI has plenty of resource reserves and is half way through building everything in the "Prepare for Attack" queue. Then it switches to another state, say "Defend (Short Term)" to repel a small enemy fleet from its territory. Lets say theoretically that it manages to do this without taking any loses, without building any ships, and without colonizing any planets. When it switches back to "Prepare for Attack", the first ship added to construction queues will be from what location in the "Prepare for Attack" queue? Will it be the first entry at the top, the Last entry at the bottom, or would it be the exact entry it would have produced next if it had never been interrupted by the "Defend (Short Term)" state?

Re: My AI Design Q&A

Quote:

Originally posted by cybersol:

So let us say my AI has plenty of resource reserves and is half way through building everything in the "Prepare for Attack" queue.
Then it switches to another state, say "Defend (Short Term)" to repel a small enemy fleet from its territory.
Lets say theoretically that it manages to do this without taking any loses, without building any ships, and without colonizing any planets.

Cybersol,

From the Variables you described above:

Your build queues will continue the construction process to complete, all Items, which are already under construction from your previous, Prepare for Attack State. (IIRC) Any Items, other then top in processed Item, will be cleared from the queues.

-

Please remember, your AI now had a change State; to Defend Short Term, basically for (5 Turns)
Now, with this new State Change, the AI will fill all available build queues, Starting at the top of the AI State: = Defend Short Term List (Irregardless of the format: i.e. Combined with any other AI State or not. Subject to AI State rules.

It is recommended, that units be placed at the top of this Defend Short Term, because the AI Switches in an out of this State frequently. This way, thru out the game your Home World will be assured of a fresh supply.
Any available BSYs or Yard Facilities will continue on with the Defend (Short Term) list, of course the BSY will only receive, Ship or Base requests.

This reminds me. Cybersol, about how many BSYs do you expect at about turn 55?

Defend Short Term:
Entry 1 Type: Weapon Platform (Highly suggested, to insure steady and continues builds of fresh designs for your se4 AI�s Home World.
2: Satellites and or Fighters
Attack Ships
Defense Ships (Optional)
Etc

Please note: From the Defend (Short Term) With no enemy in your Territory, the AI will only change to Infrastructure State or the Exploration as out lined below.

(E) Enemy is NOT IN that AI�s territory and there are NO Systems to Explore; then your AI may revert to the ~(B) Infrastructure State

FROM (E)to(B)THEN and IF , Enough time since the Last Attack has passed from your AI Settings File (XiChung @ Turns to Wait until next attack := 6) then your AI WILL consider from (B) Infrastructure State again, for an Attack or an Incursion

Or

(F) However, from Defend Short Term, if no enemy is in that AI territory, or nearby and there are Systems to Explore still; then your AI may revert all the way back to the Exploration State.

Quote:

When it switches back to "Prepare for Attack", the first ship added to construction queues will be from what location in the "Prepare for Attack" queue? Will it be the first entry at the top, the Last entry at the bottom, or would it be the exact entry it would have produced next if it had never been interrupted by the "Defend (Short Term)" state?

Your build queues will continue the construction process to complete, all Items, which are already under construction from your previous, Defend (Short Term). (IIRC) Any Items, other then top in processed Item, will be cleared from the queues.
=
When the AI; picks a selection based on the AI State, the first item in the queue is selected, and evaluated , the AI will fill all available build queues.

=

Reference:

AI CONSTRUCTION VEHICLES DATA FILE
Rules:
1. The game picks a selection based on the AI State. There cannot be duplicate
AI states.
2. Item will be placed at whichever spaceyard is available and can get it done the fastest.
3. First item in the queue is selected, and evaluated. We construct if:
Please refer to file for formula. If I post data, a HTML error here will, exist http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
4. If the Build at Least value is greater than 0, we check if the Planet Per Item condition
is still true. If it is, then we purchase another one, if not, we move to the next
queue item. If we do purchase another one, we continue in this loop until the
condition is false, or we have purchased the number in Build At Least.
5. When the Last item is reached, it restarts at the beginning.

[ June 25, 2003, 02:07: Message edited by: JLS ]