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Re: New Game
OK, with the addition of Aku and Curious Cat, and with Baboune declining and Pickles AWOL, we now have ten players in the game. But no water races. I wonder the significance of that...
Anyway, it seems that the map is pretty much the only major open question left now. Options are: 1. Aduria - 153 land + 34 water = 188 total 2. Cradle - 199 land + 22 water = 221 total 3. Europe - 134 total - I could not find the tga file on the net, but the map file on Zen's site says water nations have a significant advantage, so I doubt it works for us here with likely too much water places. 4. Karan - 142 land + 20 water = 162 total 5. Inland - 149 land + 5 water = 154 total Cradle description says that players will not start on wasteland, swamp, magic site, or swamp. But there are no #nostart provinces on the list, so they must be hardcoded into the province type. I read somewhere that this does not always work on certain dom Versions. I tested it a small amount and this seemed to work as advertised, but I have not come close to knowing for sure. Anybody know the answer to this for certain? Arduria says the intent is to be used with VPs, but this is not necessary. Puting in a province victory condition works just fine. There are 12 land and 2 sea starting locations on the map. Only one of these starting provinces is not very good (16). The only real problem with this map is that the starting locations near the poles have fairly poor-income adjacent provinces. But good for site searching, of course. I know that Karan has a couple of few poor starting locations too, and it might need to be edited to even this out. As for the lack of water race, both Aduria and Cradle have water mixed throughout the map with no blocks caused by lakes or oceans, making the lack of a water nation not overly important. Karan has most of the water bunched in the south. Other map choices??? As for selecting the number of provinces required to win, you can generally pick a number ending in 0, 4, or 7. Sometimes 1, 3, and 6 are choices too. For example, here is a list of the options from 90 - 120: 91, 94, 97, 100, 104, 107, 110, 113, 117, 120 So, in conclusion, if we want a longer game, then the choice should be Cradle. If we want a shorter one, then Inland or Karan. Aduria is kind of a medium length map with its 188 provinces. Right now, my vote is Cradle with about 125 provinces required for victory. |
Re: New Game
1st: Welcome, CuriousCat, to the 2nd Newbie Slugfest.
2nd: I played a little of Zen's Europe Map. It looks fun, but it sounds like it would best to play that map without water nations. (The read-me says that water nations would have an unfair advantage.) It also looks pretty, which again is a big PLUS for me!! |
Re: New Game
Ultimately, I would vote for maps in the following order:
1. ZenEurope, because I just love playing on maps of the "OLD world" and it looks wicked PRETTY PRETTY PRETTY. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif 2. Adruia, while it is not quite as pretty and is not Europe, it looks wicked crazy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif 3. Cradle, because it is still kinda pretty and kinda crazy and kinda zesty-spanky-pow-dunk-sassy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif The math stuff is over my head - - - so I gotta grasp at aesthetics. |
Re: New Game
Hmmmm... I just started a practice game on the Zen Europe map, and it placed Pan in the sea (but said the province was plains) (province 9). Hmmmm.
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Re: New Game
Double hmmmm... gosh... Cradle IS easy on the eyes.
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Re: New Game
Thanks for the welcome. I'm so new that I have no preferences. I'll be happy with whatever you all decide.
Again, thanks. CC |
Re: New Game
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I haven't heard anything about the hardcoding not working with certain dominions Versions (which doesn't mean it's not possible) but in any case, all your players should be using the same, latest, Version, so that shouldn't be an issue either way. Personally, I think you can't go wrong with the Cradle map - it's probably my favorite based both on aesthetics and gameplay, while Zen's Europe is also gorgeous and seems perfect for a smaller quicker game. (If y'all want quick and dirty, Europe might be good even without any water nations - it's recommended that you either have both or neither water nation.) |
Re: New Game
I vote for Cradle.
Grim Knight. |
Re: New Game
I vote for cradle too. I already have it so I won't need to download another one. Heh. Better clarify which Version of the .map file we will be using though, as there seems to be several...
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Re: New Game
I am willing to switch to a water race if you want to do Europe map lol. I never used either water race in mp either.
For the map picks I have only played inland and karan. I have no idea what the other maps are so I will just let you guys decide on a map. |
Re: New Game
1 Attachment(s)
The .tga file should be the same for all Versions, as far as the .map file the one that I am refering to is the Version modified by Zen.
zencradlev14.map This file is kind of difficult to locate as it is not posted on any of the sites that have maps for download, to get it I had to do a search of the Boards to find the Thread in which it was posted. For ease of access in this instance I will attach the file to this post. The attached file is only the .map file as the .tga is easily found for download from www.illwinter.com Grim Knight |
Re: New Game
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Re: New Game
Zen is stingy with his maozzezz, precious. Precious, it burns us!
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Re: New Game
I think we are supposed to do the cradle2 Version, which supposedly fixes some bugs in the allowed start locations from the earlier Versions (1 and 1.4?). All my tests so far have been on Version 2 of the map, and I have yet to find a totally screwball starting spot. That does not mean they ain't there, though.
Grim, you, as the host, are the only one who really needs the map file. Look at the one on the illwinter site labeled 'PhilD's fixed map' and see if it is a later Version than the zencradle14 one. Everyone else just needs the tga file, I believe. Zen, if you read this, can you elaborate on your Version 1.4? Is the Version 2 better? |
Re: New Game
If the Date Modified Stamp in the .zip files is any indication then the zencradle14.map is the most recent.
The cradle2.map has a date modified of 04/24/2004 The zencradle14.map has a date modified of 07/11/2004 This is what I base my assumption of Zen's Version being the most recent. Grim Knight |
Re: New Game
Switch my Pythium to Ryleh if we play a map that is acceptable for a water race.
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Re: New Game
Current Players and Nations Selected List
Grim Knight - Marignon (host) Panther - Abysia Steerpike - Jontunheim Pasha Dawg - Pangaea Deccan - C'tis Dragon Fire - Caelum Krool Death - Vanheim Beorne - Mictlan Aku - Pythium or R'lyeh Curious Cat - Arcoscephale |
Re: New Game
grim can you edit that post with the game settings also...and i guess just put any options not yet decided with a "?".
Thank you. |
Re: New Game
Does anyone know if the special theme "return of the raptors" worthwhile or truly special?
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Re: New Game
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Re: New Game
zencradle14 is the latest of my modification of Cradle.
I personally think it's a great .map for the tga. But some prefer the 'high chokepoint, no mobility" of the other map files associated with the map. For those who are trying my europe map. Try www.techno-mage.com/~zen/zeneuropefinal.zip that has the final modifications of the map, including the neighbor error that Graeme found on my Last edit (damn misclicks). Don't play with too much Zen stuff at once, it's not good for the brain! |
Re: New Game
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Re: New Game
Actually the more I play with the Spellmod the more I enjoy the staging that I go through with the midlevel spells that I never used. It's not perfect, but it definitely increases the variability of the spells, summons and paths in my mind. But that may be I've just played a little too much dominions and play with/against only the most easily abusable and hard to counter strategies at the fastest possible speed.
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Re: New Game
do i need more than that attachment for the map to work because i get some error and it lists tga in the error message
I looked at the cradle maps on the official site and the downloads dont have a tga file. I dont know wtf a tga file is but how do I get it for this map to work for me lol. |
Re: New Game
Aku, cradle.zip from the Illwinter Maps Download page will contain the .tga that you need.
Grim Knight |
Re: New Game
Thanks Grim, that got it to work.
I made my Ryleh pretender also since it sounds like we will doing a map with water provinces. |
Re: New Game
Current Vote Tally
Mods: Zen's Pretender Mod v1.81 has 4 For and 0 Against. Victory Conditions: 3 Votes for 2/3 Provinces, and 1 for 1/2 Provinces. 0 Votes Against Province Victory. Sites: 5 votes for 50, 0 Firm Votes for anything else. HoF: 5 votes for 15, 0 votes against Research: 4 Votes for Very Difficult, 1 votes for Difficult. House Rules: 4 votes for Nation with no MP Experience, 0 votes against. Indies: 4 votes for 9, 1 vote for 6. Graphs: 4 votes for off, 1 for On Host Speed: 4 votes for 24h QH, 0 votes against Map: 4 firm votes for Cradle (Zen's Version), So far no firm votes for any other map. So that Means the Firm Game Settings are as Follows: Mods: Zen's Pretender Mod v1.81 Sites: 50 HoF: 15 Research: Very Difficult House Rule: Must be using nation you never played MP Before (If you only played them A Few Turns then it does not count as MP Experience). Indies: 9 Graphs: Off Host Speed: 24h QH Victory Conditions: 2/3 Provinces, on Cradle this calculates to 145 out of 221 provinces. Map: Cradle of Zen Grim Knight |
Re: New Game
I have a question, if we have graphs off, then we can't see how close a particular nation is to victory?
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Re: New Game
Yeah deccan has a good point.
I am going to do some votes. Mods: Zens pretender mod v1.81 Sites: 50 HoF: 15 Graphs: On Host Speed: 24 hour quickhost |
Re: New Game
Actually it won't be too bad if the victory condition is by % of provinces. I assume that if a nation manages to grab control of over 50% of total provinces it ought to be pretty obvious.
If victory is by number of VPs though, graphs off might be problematic. |
Re: New Game
Currently looking at Victory by Provinces with some confusion about exactly what percentage to use.
Grim Knight |
Re: New Game
Graphs off for VP does not work as well, for it can be hard to determine exactly how many a side has. But for provinces, this is not an issue. Even if all your spies are caught, you will have a good idea of how large a territory each of the game leaders have. You will be trading inforation with your allies to get an even closer tally if needed. And when somebody is eliminated, pretty much everybody in the game will know who did it and adjust the province count appropriately.
In my only other game with graphs off, I remember sending spies to the edge of Abysian (Aku) territory to get an idea of where his border with Man and Pangaea was. I knew about his border with R'lyeh since I was allied with that watery race. So I made an informed estimate of how many provinces Aku had. We then exchanged province count with each other over MSN and he had something like 22, which fit my estimate of 20-25. I remember watching a big battle (on the other side of the map from me) between Pasha Dawg and Boron, and they were both issuing false proclamations about it. So I took screen shots and posted it on the thread. Aku remarked that my Pythium spy was a long ways from home, which he was. I also recall keeping that spy alive for something like 40 turns. He eventually got caught, as they all do at some point. Unlike army size, gems, income, dominion and, to a lesser extent VPs, province count is incredibly difficult to mask whether the graphs are on or off. In my opinion, being able to hide these other graphs is what makes it attractive to me. I will have my spies roaming to keep tabs on all my neighbors regardless of the score graph state. |
Re: New Game
May i join too ?
I would like to try machaka http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif . Pasha will love this setting . Reversed roles http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif . That Pasha , Aku and Panther are in alone guarantees me that it will be a fun game . I am awaiting the mighty Spider Lords revenge who shapeshifted now into a pangenean God http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif |
Re: New Game
If it helps any...I am no longer going to be a land race since I switched to Ryleh to give our map a water race. So it would be the same amount of land nations if that helps the host's decision to allow another player in.
Oh and my Ryleh Pretender I just finished. Should we start uploading? |
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Re: New Game
I think there is room for you Boron, so welcome.
No one has uploaded yet so if you want you can still cast your votes, the two uncertain elements at this time are the Map (So far 2 votes for Cradle and None against but this is not yet a clear majority as there are about 6 or 7 members of the group who have been voting, so once we get about 4 votes for something I consider it the obvious choice.) The next is Victory Conditions, we have clearly deceided in favor of a Province based victory condition but it is still unclear as to the exact percentage desired by the majority, we have 2 votes for 2/3 or 66%, 1 vote for 1/2 or 50%, and 1 vote for more than 50% but less than 66%. Everyone, Server is up so you can upload when ready. IP: 69.10.97.69 Port: 65000 Grim Knight |
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With victory settings and the other settings i am indifferent http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif . Cradle is imo a nice map so i vote for cradle too . Uploading probably today afternoon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif . |
Re: Jotunheim
The Scene: Aboy with his Grandfather.
"Grandfather why has the river turned yellow today?" "Well my boy." Taking a sip from his glass of the yellow frothy 'water'."You know we are downstream from the province of the giants, occassionally when a being so strong emerges he unites those mighty beings." "How does this make the river yellow?" "When the giants are united they, well... have a party they kind of drink a lot... and" takes another sip"well the river Ord is the closest thing to a toilet they have. Never number twos you understand" he gives the boy a stern look. "There must be a lot of them grandfather if they turn a whole river to gold." "Gold indeed!"the old man smiles a slightly drunken smile."No there is'nt too many of em but they are big boy, that why they call em giants." "Are they mighty?" "Yes boy they are very mighty." "Would they be as strong as Hulfgar?" The old man looks towards a 40ish balding militia commander with a belly twice the size of his hips with ill diguised contempt."The 'Average' giant would be a little bit tougher than Hulfgar boy. They are fearsome to behold" "Well I'm not afeared I know our gaurds will drive these Giants off, look at them!" The old man casts his eye over the 60 or so militia and shortbowman arrayed before him with derision and takes a huge gulp of the river 'water'." They are worthy of our respect my boy God rest their souls." "Who is this 'being' that might have united them?" "Its hard to say boy, could be a standing stone steeped in magic or a mighty Worm with none or a great sage who researches the mysteries of spellore or maybe even some bum with a golden tounge, these giants arn't all that bright ya know." "What does it or he mean to do." "Or she boy or she, well if the river runs yellow and the young men of the village pass out drunk in the street it means only one thing... a new pretender has arrived. and if one new pretender arrives it means a whole damn fleet of em have come, DadNabbitt!!!.It means War boy and you have to be aligned to a pretender or you suffer terribly, No you have to be aligned to the winning pretender or you suffer terribly." "Who are we aligned to Grandfather?" Sighs."We are aligned to the Independents boy means our assses are hanging out there in the breeze, if we were in the province of Solaris we might be OK for a while but No we have miltia protecting us...LUCKY US... AND we are right next to the giants home province..." He looks at a now rather scared looking boy." Its not so bad little one just make sure you get your mother to make a good fleecy water lined jumper to wear, youll be Ok. Now get along and do your chores Grandfather has some drinking to do." GO GIANTS!!!! |
Re: Jotunheim
I vote for the cradle map too so we have the vote finished for it.
About victory conditions...games usually always tend to have a winner you can outright see. Comon if one empire has over half the map they probably cant be stopped unless the other half all unite to try to stop him. I say we just play it out and see what happens. I am going to do a quick run in sp to test my ryleh pretender then upload it. So far only Jotumheim has uploaded so far. |
Too late?
Is it then too late to join? I'd like to join as man if possible.
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Re: Too late?
We currently have 11 players for the map and I am not sure if the map we chose can handle more. It is Grim's decision though since he is in charge of this game.
Also my pretender is uploaded now. So that makes it Jotum and Ryleh are uploaded. |
Re: Too late?
Sorry Seater, I think we are all full up. The Cradle Map with 10 land and 1 water race is about as full as it can get, the designer of the Map lists it as for 8 to 10 players so we are already over the recommended limit as it is.
My pretender is uploded now as well. Grim Knight |
Re: Jotunheim
The Initiate rushes frantically up the steep, gleaming white, steps of the House of Fiery Justice. He is panting loudly as he holds his red robes up over his knees to avoid triping over them in his haste.
At Last he reaches the top of the stairs and bursts through the doors, only to be imediatly stoped by two Men-at-Arms who demand to know his business. After panting helplessly for a couple of minutes he manages to gasp out, "River ... gasp ... Yellow! Must ... pant ... tell ... our lord." "Alright then," mutters the guard. "Why didn't ya say so in the first place?" he asks rhetorically. "You'll have to go talk to Inquisitor Ponce Pendergrast, to get an appointment with High Inquisitor Ortega Otwell, who will in turn decide if you warrant an audience with Caramont the Cardinal, then if he deems your news important enough he will pass it along to our great lord." He then waves the initiate through into the magnificent domed entry hall of the building. As the Initiate begins to walk past the guard points across the room and to the right, "Start by talking to Sargent Santiago, he will decide if you can speak to Ponce. Good Luck." He then returns his attention to the doors he is charged with guarding. 12 hours and many appointments later the young initiate is finally in front of Cardinal Caramont. "Speak up boy and be quick about it, you have no idea how freaking busy I am." Says the Cardinal as he stands still with his arms out to his sides so the seamstress atending him can measure him for a new robe. The tired and frustrated young initate speaks up in a sonorous monotone. "The river has turned yellow." "Well why in the Great Lord's name didn't you say so. Jumpin Jehosefat kid, how long ago was this noted!" he says as he hurriedly shoos the seamtress out of his way and rushes towards you. "About three quarters of a day by now." The initiate gets out with a distinct sound of treipedation in his voice. "Dang nabbit kid. Do you realize what this means? You do don't you? You must if you left your river watching post to come here. This is of the utmost importance, why did it take so long to get to my ears?" Yells the Cardinal in a voice that sounds close to hysteria. "Well first I had to get an appointment with Inquisitor Pendergrast, so I could get an appointment with ..." the initiate starts to explain. "Flames from the Sky kid, never mind the details, I must tell our great lord immediatly." He says as runs out of his office past an honor guard of 40 Men-at-Arms and 4 Royal Guards standing at attention in his Foyer. The iniate picks up his robes and hurries to keep up, as they exit the room and run down a hall lined with countless more royal guards the Cardinal keeps emitting a steady stream of curses each more colorful than the Last. As the enter the Foyer of the Great Lord, which is only accessible after passing through the Cardinals Foyer and the well guarded hall, Cardinal Caramont Tells the initiate to, "Wait for me here!" The Cardinal Rushes past the guards and into the personal chambers of the Great Lord, Grim Knight, the one unseen by any but the Cardinal Himself. In his haste the Cardinal does not even pause to knock. A few minutes later a great and powerful voice his heard booming forth from the Great Lords Chambers, "If the river runs Yellow it can mean only one thing. The pretender of the great Jotun Oafs has arrived. So it has begun if the Jotuns have a pretender than doubtless all of the great nations do as well. I was hoping for more time to plan and plot. Alas, it was not to be. Prepare the Army and begin the Attack... we must first bring all these stinking Indepents into the warmth of my embrace. Stoke the Fires the Inquisition must spread. My army shall march at Dawn!" The iniate collapses on the floor in exhaustion and absolute wonder, he got to hear the voice of his God. The next morning when he awoke he found himself on a Horse Marching at the front of an Army with a note informing him of his promotion to Witch Hunter and his command of the Army behind him. At the bottom of the note were written the omnious words... "Do not fail me, kid." The note was signed by Cardinal Caramont. Grim Knight |
Re: Jotunheim
Grim,
You, as host, ought to go ahead and start a new thread. This one is long enough as it is. You can post the players and races, the settings, the IP and port number, and anything else pertnent to the upcoming match. Just pick the number of provinces requred to win and let us know what you selected. Also, put in the title that the game is not open for new players. I think Cradle has been agreed to by enough players already so we might as well use it. I looked at the Zen Version 1.4 of the map and it seemed to work extremely well as far as starting provinces. It is a good choice for the map file, imho. Good writing by you and Steerpike, by the way. I have a distinct feeling that I am really going to enjoy this particular game. I too am putting together a pre-game post, but all the details are not yet worked out. Also, I think that you and Steerpike both should move your Posts to the new thread so we have everything there for a good start to the AARs. My pretender is mostly done now and will be uploaded sometime this evening. Panther |
Re: Jotunheim
I have started the New Thread so Future Posts on this Game Should go there, Thread Title is Another Newbie Slugfest.
Grim Knight. |
Re: Too late?
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/Saeter |
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