Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

for the AI mod, where can i find delux v1.94, for the mod?

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Well, this was embarrasing. I sent Alpha fleet to attack a combined CueCappa and Viking fleet massing beside a fresh military base in Cue space.

All I got was one measly Cue carrier.
The vikings had made an end run around my forces, smashed my entire anti-Cue defense net with only a single fighter casualty, and were charging drunkenly through my system.

I initially thought they might attack my thinly populated military base in the system, and gathered all my damaged ships to it.
However, instead they went to liberate the old viking colony that I had captured earlier.

The Vikings were back to claim their own, and the Cue were still a threat in the outer system. Most of my attack fleet was chasing down the vikings, and I scraped every ship in the system together to make a two pronged assault force.

The vikings arrived on day 12, swept away the defenses easily, and landed 180 stormtroopers.
Very very fortunately, I had troops left over there, since my assault transports were heavily damaged in their next operation, before they had a chance to remove all the troops. The ground combat stalemated.

My two fleets arrived on day 30, and it was a quite the battle. Viscious exchange of missiles, and my skirmishers took a solid beating holding back most of the viking horde.

One problem noted: The vikings have a destroyer with 40mm DUCs and 20MM torpedoes, that repeatedly attacked one of my shielded skirmishing cruisers, doing minimal to no damage.

The viking dogfighters did get through on my flank, and chewed up my guys pretty good.

In the end, I defeated them with relatively little losses.
We had equal numbers of carriers, but I had 20 more support ships. The extra point defense, assault guns and cannon-fodder-ism pushed the battle through to a solid victory.

Suggestion summary:
- Design/strategy fix on the 40mmDUC / 20mm Torp destroyer
- Try to increase the number of support ships in the fleets. Or, increase the number of DF attack fighters. They did good. Reduce the point defense missile fighters they don't seem to have much effect.

However:
- I think I will increase the point defense missile speeds. Right now they are weak.
- I will reduce the hitpoints of said missiles, to aid in targetting priorities against them.
- Offensive missiles will be made slower. They seem to be a bit too powerful.

This may make those defense missiles more useful, but I would still reccommend installing them on ships instead of fighters. Ships can fire one missile at each incoming target, whereas fighters fire the whole stack at once.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

You're going to make offensive missiles slower? Wow, I thought speed 2 for heavy nukes was slow enough already... that's already slower than many ships! Are you trying to return to the days of SE2 where missiles moved at speed 1 and ships could easily outrun them in tactical combat? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

No, mostly the explosive missiles.
I'm leaning towards:
Antiplanet 1, Nukes 2, Explosive 3, Heavy kinetic 5, light kinetic (antimissile) 10

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Thanks for the feedback, some very valueable hints.
Here are some comments in chronological order:

I have noticed the same thing about the Laser/Missile heavy Interceptor, and changed the design and strategy as recommended. Added AI Tags for the Kinetic Missiles and the fighter now carries 3 weapons and fullfills a role as a interceptor/space superiority hybrid.

A fleet with only explosive missiles can happen. The AI does use a lot of different designs to get a decent mix, but the composition of fleets cannot be controlled.

As SJ already said the beneficial Intel will be dealt with. Not an AI thing really, but a mod /data thing.

Repair bays are indeed hard to fit in, the AI already uses all design classes that will join attack fleets (Attack Ship, Kamikaze Attack Ship, and Boarding Ship) as well as Troop Transports and Carriers. Right now I see 3 possibilities how to fit them in: 1)use late-game Carriers, 2)use mid to late game Troop Transports, 3)use one of the 3 warship classes, add a repair design for one class, and use construction calls by designname, rather than designclass. I tend to avoid this, since construction calls by designname isn't really working as intended and can get hard to control. In either case, the AI won't use repair bays until it has reached a certain and yet to be determined treshhold of repair tech. And keep in mind that the AI is bad at strategy, so the repair ships wil be added to fleets randomly and if the fleet gets damaged heavily, it may disband anyway regardless of repair present. Certainly don't expect the AI to send out repair ships to rescue damaged and stranded fleets/ships. Although I may have yet another try to use the SYS design class, and see how the AI uses them on a strategic level.

Politics and Anger are mostly just copies of the stock files, except for a few changes. They may be changed later to make more sense for the CB mod cultures. But that's easy to do. I am more concerned with research, design, strategies, and construction at this point.

Yeah, lighty defended HWs are an issue. I have changed the unit_construction a bit and hope it helps. Defense bases, as dicussed in IRC, are an issue for themselves. I have added them now and going to monitor their build locations. But since the locations are erratic and bases don't have a maintenance bonus, I think mobile defenses are the way to go for the AI. I will certainly leave the bases in for flavour, but don't expect them to have a major impact.

Attack Bases don't join fleets and thus cannot be used as repair ships. They are best used for scout designs. As mentioned above, all other design classes that join fleets are already taken to get a mix of warships.

Thanks for the AAR on the CueCappa-Viking front:
the 40mmDUC/20mmTorp DD is a troop transport. I wasn't really concerned with its strategy besides dropping troops and stuck in some weapons to clear the way. I'll have a look at the strategy of the TTs. As mentioned above, I may add repair bays to them.
More support ships? Like what? Missile, PD or Close Combat? All them them? Is the AI using too many carriers?
Fighter mix is a bit hard to control, since they all use the same designclass and are being called for construction by designname, but I'll see what I can do to get less Interceptors and more Bombers and Jaegers. The laser/missile interceptor has been fixed and behaves nicely now, I think.


Phew, that's all for now. Sorry if I missed something. Keep the reports coming, please =).

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

As a troop transport, the best targetting priorities would probably be Seekers(on us), and fighters.

As to ships vs fighters, I've been seeing carriers comprising more than half the fleet sometimes.
With the limited fighter control, having more support ships to ensure the combat roles are all covered is probably a good thing.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Yes, I agree with the targetting for the TT. Done.

Yep, I have been aiming for about 50% carriers in fleets. And I am seeing the AI going wild on unit construction in my current test game (homeworlds with 11000 to 17000kt of units and colonies filled to various degrees with about 1000 to 3000kt). I'll tweak the construction file for more support ships. But mind you, fleets with missiles only are still possible =P.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

And, now, here we have an update!

Download, play, and let me know if there are any small bugs before I upload it to PBW and start the CB AI Safari game.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Oops.

THIS version has been whacked with the shovel of QA.
(And is now obsolete)

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

A finalized version is now up!
Get it here:

http://pbw.cc/Download/filelib/1315/...Battles1.5.zip
http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/other/...arrierBattles/

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...?Number=434007

It has been a while, but v1.6 is now ready for PBW games.

It features:
- Support for JunkyardWars style games (No research, lots of normal tech ruins)
- Unique ruins tech to discover.
- Allows ring and sphereworlds to be placed using the map editor.
- Allows more flexible tech disabling, including separate toggles for Plague Intel and Sabotage intel (as separate from the information gathering)
- Efficient workers tweaked; -50% to research
- Explosive/Nuclear missile reload rates increased to balance damage factor.
- Planetary Bombardment missile damage reduced drastically.
- New intro screen

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Awesome SJ - I've thoroughly enjoyed CBMod. It has renewed my se4 lust. It withered for a while when JLS disappeared and AIC updates stopped... mainly because vanilla AI is just horrible.

So... thanks for the next installment!

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Hmm... those first 2 options make me wonder, should I not have picked the two scavenger traits in the LOTR game?

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Yes and no...

If you choose the major trait, the minor one is redundant and a waste of points.

No traits gets you nerfed versions of the ruins tech when you colonize the ruins.
Scavengers gets you regular ruins tech.
Xenoachaeologists gets you beefy versions of the ruins tech.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Oh, OK... I'll redo my empire file taking only one of the traits then! Thanks! Though perhaps you should clarify that in future versions / to the other players...

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Here is an update for you, Ed.

The new v1.6, with some tweaked descriptions. (4 megs)

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

SJ I am getting a lot AI_General, and Research errors popping up in v1.6.

When you changed the Racial Traits and tech area files you might have caused some collateral damage to the AI files. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Also do you mind if I work on a modified version of your mod? Just something that I wanted to play around with and if I can get it too work I would like to post it, with your permission.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

I also found a spacing error in the components file right above Steel Armor Plating.

The missing Tech Area tech is Solid Shields.

The missing Racial Trait is Hardy Industrialists.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

I wanted to try out that Subspace idea I had and your mod seemed like the best way to go.

This is what I have done. (I have not updated the research file yet, but I will)

Added Two New Racial Traits:
Subspace Warfare Tech Area 100
Description: Technology that allows ships to slip into subspace thus rendering them nearly invisible.

Electronic Warfare Tech Area 101
Description: Gives technology that can detect ships hidding in subspace.

Added Two New Technologies
Subspace Warfare Max Lv 3

Electronic Warfare Max Lv 3 (Requires Automation Lv 6)

Added Three New Hulls
Subspace Attack Ship
Description: Fast attack subspace ship.

Subspace ISBM Carrier
Description: Slower moving ship that can carry Inter-Stellar Ballistic Missile

ISBM
Description: Inter-Stellar Ballistic Missile

Added New Components:
Phalanx Torpedo I - III Skips Shields and Armor
Description: A devastating powerful torpedo used by subspace ships against other ships.
NOTE: Require a mount. Has a reload rate of 3, Restriction of 4 per ship, and is exclusive to the subspace ships

ISBM Launcher
Description: Launches ISBM's into space
NOTE: Cargo of 100kt (Enough for 1 ISBM)

ISBM Guidance System

ISBM Engine

ISBM Warhead I - III
Description: Large nuclear warhead which will cause massive damage when it hits an enemy planet.
NOTE: Dam 500, 700, 1000 at range 1 only
SUB NOTE: ISBM can only have one warhead.

Electronic Sensors
Description: Advanced sensors which scans all electro-magnetic bands to detect ships hidden ships in subspace.
NOTE: Requires mount. Only a Destroyer can use it. Can detect Lv 6 EM.

Subspace Charge I - III Skips Armor
Description: Subspace charges are used against ships hidden in subspace. They can also damage ships in normal space.
NOTE: Reload rate 2, damage 25,25,25 - 25,25,25,25 - 25,25,25,25,25, Requires Mount and can only be mounted on a Destroyer

Added New Mounts:
Phalanx Torpedo Mount
Description: Mount scales Phalanx Torpedo for use with Subspace Attach Ship

Phalanx Torpedo Mount
Description: Mount scales Phalanx Torpedo for use with Subspace ISBM Carrier

ISBM Launcher Mount
Description: Mount scales ISBM Launcher to fit on Subspace ISBM Carrier.

Electronic Sensors Mount
Description: Mount scales Electronic Sensors component to fit onto a Destroyer hull.

Subspace Charge Mount
Description: Mount scales Subspace Charge to fit onto a Destroyer hull.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

1) Yeah, that's why I updated the links, and solid shields were intentionally removed.

2) Since you're gonna have the ISBMs, you should probably remove the PBMs, or change them into warheads for the ISBMs.

3) Armor skipping weapons won't do much. They act more like shield skipping weapons, since the mod uses leaky shields and armor.

4) Once you've got the basics working, I suggest cranking the number of stealth/scanner levels up to 50 or so, to prevent the arms race from fizzling out in the early turns of a game.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

1. What links were updated? I only downloaded this yestarday. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

2. PBMS - ?

3 - thats fine, just gives the subs their own weapon.
4 - ? The cloaking ability is built into the hulls.. can you give more advise on this.

Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

2. Planetary Bombardment Missiles

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

The Subspace ships sound pretty cool. How are you going to restrict components to the subspace hulls? Mounts?

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

yes mounts and racial trait.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Question:

Why are satellites considered ships in this mod? Was the intention to make them only able to be constructed one at a time?

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

The one at a time building is an unavoidable side effect.

The intention is to make them require resupply and repairs after combat.
To make them spread out, and allow formations.

Generally, it was done to avoid the lame satellite stacking you see in stock, and to make them detailed and useful combat units.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Now that is NOT a bad idea. Mind if I use it?

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Ahh, well, if you want one satellite to represent more than one, then make a satellite mount that reduces the weapon tonnage.

I'm not sure how the building shipyards go in CBmod, but my shipyards allow me to spend about 3000 minerals per turn. So if I want one satellite built per turn
so it acts as a ship, can be deployed in formations, and be repaired and all that jazz, but want to represent that each satellite is actually 4, then a general weapon mount for satellites would be made at 25% of tonnage cost. So you'd have one satellite, just with 4x the weaponry on it as an example.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Go ahead, Atro.

Dizzy, that's not an issue.
Just use BSYs or SYSs to build the satellites.

Besides, sats in CB are quite strong compared to stock... each one is already big enough to rival a frigate since the sat dosen't use engines or crew.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Like I said... I dont know how yours works, but CBmod is the next one Im trying.

Instead of calling it a satellite... you could call it a satellite group, not for you SJ, but this was my reply to the others discussing yours.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

And fighters work the same way? (im running on memory here since I'm at work!)

It just seems like it will take forever to get a large fighter force up and running when building them one at a time.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

No, fighters in CBmod are still fighters - else they would not be loadable on ships http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Thanks, Ed Kolis. I'll check it out tonight some more.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Fighters have a similar end result, although the causes/reasons are different.

Launching fighters in groups of, say 25, will get your navy slaughtered. Covert Jaguar had to learn this the hard way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Launching fighters in groups of three (the default), will keep you competitive in battles. For particularily large fleets (300+), where there simply aren't enough combat squares to launch in groups of three, fives or eights can be useful.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Has anyone noticed that with fighters in the simulator, if you have more than one fighter in a group, the second fighter won't have any supplies? Anyone know a way around that?

Also...shouldn't external racks be a one shot deal?

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

DUR

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

You should always have your fighters launch from a carrier or a planet.
After all, how else are they going to get into the combat? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

It is a wide rack http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Better for gameplay using a mount, just don't pay too much attention to the description details here.

Oh, and population grows every year, rather than every month now.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Thanks for the first part, and I FINALLY figured out the second part. Combat begins soon...YAY! I built an early mini-carrier; can't wait to get it into the fray!

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Excellent!

You will probably find that early on, with small fleets, missiles are king.
As the fleets get larger, point defense ships show up, and pave the way for assault ships.

That's when things get really interesting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
The big, beefy warships with huge guns are always fun...

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Seems that my enemies already have your strategy figured out! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

The good thing for me is that I have a propulsion advantage, so I can try to bait him...until my own missile ships roll off the line. And my carrier should make his life hard as well.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

I'm getting an error when trying to start a new game.

Unable to load empire XXXXXXX

Where XXXXXXX is the path to a race file like Fazrah.emp

I've never used this mod before.

I loaded original SE4 v 1.60 GOLD. Updated it to 1.94. Installed ImageMod newest version. Installed 1.6 Carrier Battles.

Theoretically this is as clean as it gets!

Please help!

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

You can't load stock empires. All the racial stuff is different!

Just create a new empire for yourself, and let the game choose random AIs for you.
Easy as that.

If you want to be able to select a shipset that is not in CB by default, go into se4\CB\races and create a new, empty folder with the shipset name.
The game will use the pictures from your root races folder automatically.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

AHA! Naturally I wanted to start with my race as a base and tweak it for the CB Mod! Thank you!

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

I, too, am getting lots of error messages for the missing solid shields research...

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Grrrrrrrrrrr............

Me three

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Do you mean Atrocities' races?

If so, I posted this link in his thread, including the mod, the AIs, and the nessesary tweaks.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Not with just <font color="red">AT</font>'s races, but some of the others too.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Well, can you guys be more specific about what it is complaining about?

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

During the turn execution, I get this error message twice, each time I run a turn. I have gotten this message since turn one of a low starting tech game. I am running the most recent version (with Atrocities races added into the download)

===Quote===

Error in AI Research (gives file location)

*Unknown value "Solid Shields" for Tech Area Name in record "Solid Shields"

===Quote===

There are 10 neutrals and the following Empires in this game (I don't know who the offenders are, but I doubt that they are the neutrals)
EEE
Phong
Terran
Executive Collegium
Caspian Empire
Space Vikings
Norak Continuum
Drushoka Empire