Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

I was able to successfully send him some cash from his Aid screen. Nothing I tried would let me add troops to the package.

The only other possibility that I can think of is a bug in the display of the number of troops available. It never occured to me to try sending some troops despite "0" being available.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Personally I thought the whole point was a couple of friends here were making an alliance together. One person has cancelled a trade agreement on me without warning because they appear to have jumped ship and another seems to be in another team now, so -2 happiness (well you know -+2) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif. Luckily I just had the two week bonus.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

According to our stats page, we are down to 30 members; the highest count since I joined was 34. I don't know who else has left besides Atrocitonia; Fiducia hadn't interacted with any of them enough for me to remember their names.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Pulled a cattle raid on Plagueland today. Unfortunately, I crushed his military so fast I couldn't get a second attack in to get some more money http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif Only walked out with $50,000... cheap bugger.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Come on guys answer why are you leaving the alliance, this was supposed to be something fun and now your jumping ship because some people offered you what? 300k? Friggin GOONS offered me a clean mil to join them but what fun is the game if you just gonna have someone carry you like a baby all the way through it? Suck it up and come back to the alliance already.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Grand Duchy of Fenwick is one of the deserters!? He's a Blue Turtle Alliance member now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Well sorry about that (I'm the Duchy of Grand Fenwick), but this as everyone says is supposed to be about having fun. I originally joined because it was a bunch of SE'ers forming an alliance. But I've come to see that our playing styles are too divergent for me to have fun while at the same time you're having fun attacking other players. I'm basically not that aggressive when faced with other options (I am afterall a wargamer back before you could play them on a computer so war isn't exactly a foreign subject). I generally play as a builder and spill blood only when necessary. I am and always have been a superb counter-puncher. Alliances are a two way street, while the alliance provides support to its members, its members need to support the alliance, not just with aid/cooperation but by its actions being in conformance with the designs of the alliance. The Blue Turtles are a peaceful alliance and you're not allowed to aggressively attack other players and I'm fine with that, you wouldn't be so I wouldn't expect you to be in such an alliance. There were others who had voiced concerns over the amount of aggressive play. And had the suggestion to form a peaceful co-alliance been followed up, I would have been all for it. When Atrocities left followed by a near collusion the Legion occurred it frightened me enough to seek other options. The climate within CN seems to be shifting ever so slightly against the very sort of behavior WP seems to be built upon. There was a recent example of a small alliance, We are Perth Army dogpiling an unaligned nation on a tech raid. Five alliances lead by I believe ANGIL and ENA came to the defense of the said unaligned nation just on the principle the WEPA was a rogue alliance and basically ZI'd most if not all WEPA. WEPA has made changes to its charter while its in the rebuilding process as a result of the war to be more in line with what other alliances deem as apropriate behavior. If WP would get that same distinction somewhere down the road I would have suffered along with everyone else. Which would be fine if that was my style of play, but it isn't. I was also concerned by the lack of structure to the WP, there is no charter,etc. nothing to guide the behavior of the members save what they has individuals think they can get away with. There is no application process to speak off, you can just simply join. But what if members from SoD wanted to join? I don't see anything that would prevent it and I personally don't need the grief of being branded a Nazi which is what would happen should that come to pass. We're a little too focused on making the big score that we were/are apparently ignoring the waters are full of danger. The documents like the charter etc. are important when dealing with other alliances because the other alliances can see for themselves how you intend to police yourself should there be conflict. And conflicts will eventually occur. WP doesn't have any of that. There is no hierarchy of command, no envoys for dealing with other alliances, no ability to coordinate reactions and support when members get attacked, nothing. Renegade13's near miss with the Legion made me decide I couldn't wait for things to change or the formation of the peaceful co-alliance to occur, I had to move, so that I can have fun. If you can't see that and want to brand me a traitor, fine.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Oh, and BTW, I was not offered anything to join the BTA. And I will not be carried like a baby. I will in all likelihood be doing some of the carrying as I'm number 11 in the alliance. BTA is only a little larger in nations than you but with higher overall nation strength. So its not like I joined a super large alliance or anything.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

To me, it's just a game. I don't want an alliance that has strict rules over what I can and can not do, that just wouldn't be fun. Nor do I want an alliance that trys to stop me from having any wars, that's contrary to what I like about this game. Sure, I had a bit of a near-miss with a Legion member, but who cares? It was all in fun.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

The only interesting part of the game is wars anyone can sit and click to the button to build up their nation every turn it takes alittle bit of thinking to win a war against someone. It is a stupid little web game if your not there to have some fun why play at all? Its not like SE4 where building a good economy is somewhat of a challange it takes no effort to have a succesful nation. SO all thats left is wars.

Edit: Also guys complaining about how open the alliance is to people last time I checked you can join any alliance you want. I could go join Legion or BTA right now and theres not a damn thing they could do about it. There is no way to place restrictions on who can join the alliance...

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Well, with the number of rogue attacks it looks like I'll have plenty of opportunity for war. The rules don't have to be rigid and confining, they just have to imply there is some control. Particularly in CN, all the members of an alliance suffer for the sins of one. BTA has a rule about aggressive attacks, but its not rigid. If I want to go on a tech raid, I can, but its with the understanding that I do so on my own and it doesn't involve the BTA. I get in trouble, I can expect no help. As things are right with WP, anything anyone does involves the entire alliance. You have no system for separating out actions as individual from those of an alliance. As far as fun, we each have our definitions of what that is. Its unfair to impy I'm not having fun because my idea of fun defers from yours. I'm not trying to change what you're doing because I know you're having fun. I enjoy the role-playing aspects and opportunities the game presents more, it doesn't mean I'm having any less fun. I agree that just logging on to cash taxes and spend it for two minutes everyday wouldn't be my idea of fun either. I wouldn't do it at all if I weren't having fun. To each his own. I respect your attitude and there are times I wish I could be more on the edge like you. But it's not in my nature anymore than it is in your nature to be more like me.

Edit: Well all the other alliances I looked at have an application process and warn you against listing as being part of their alliance until they have approved, so pursumably there are measures that can be taken even if it's dogpiling you until to give up. I have seen threads where members were kicked out of different alliances. How its done, I don't know, all I can say is what I've seen. One of the things has something to do with masking which apparently can differentiate a real member from someone pretending to be a member.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

I second CW. This game is a small game I enjoy playing, because I enjoy waging wars on differing nations to build my strength up as much and as quickly as possible. Wilhelmia was founded on the concept of conquering Antarctica, and by God I intend to do that. I leave in two weeks for the US Navy, so I have a lot to accomplish in a little time ;o

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Okay and I respect that. But apparently I can get no respect for enjoying other aspects of the game. To be honest, it's a pretty weak combat system and its the role-playing aspects that have me playing at all. Given your styles of playing, I would have been miserable and would have left CN shortly altogether. So you want to begrudge me for leaving and going somewhere where I can enjoy the game. Now who's taking things way too seriously for a GAME.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

I am not begruging you I am just trying to figure out why you left and the others left. You gave me no indications that you wern't happy with how things were going no one did. Then you up and leave you can't expect me not to be curious and slightly peeved.

I have never forced anyone to goto war no have I made anyone get involved in anyone elses war I just don't understand what the problem is.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Even though this is a small online game and I have played in major online games, the problem is the same as always in online games. Real and perceived differences between playstyles, some need structure and others don't. Work your way up or buy your way up. They all cause problems sooner or later. And way too many online players take things way too seriously. Afterall it's only a game. Pretty much why I don't usually play online games anymore, except for Combat Wombat's invite to try CN and even then I just check to see what's going on. I haven't attacked anyone and no one has attacked me (knocks on wood). If I can help support anyone I'll try even though I don't have much.

Good luck in your alliances, I'll stay in the WP. Just my opinion.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Well, I'm not sure I can explain it any better than I already have. And okay I'd expect you to be curious and maybe peeved too. And I'm trying to answer you. I wasn't implying someone was told to go to war. But the fact that alliance has no rules of any kind any attack made by any member can effect all the members of the alliance. There are any number of examples on the CN forum (and perhaps I let them color my thinking too much) where an attack similiar to one Renegade13 made that almost involved the Legion did involve someone like the Legion, well, if it had all the members of the alliances would have been facing the maximum number of wars for as long it took to make us ZI. A prospect I'm sure I found more distateful than you do. With no rules to separate what is approved by the alliance and not approved, many of the other alliances will take that such an attack was approved by the alliance. One of my fears, founded or otherwise, given my reading was given the number of tech raids we were conducting and on targets to me that were increasingly risky (there's a reason behind why an unaligned nation is receiving a million in aid, and to me it usually means the sender is not going to be happy with you and if its an alliance it could mean trouble). WP isn't set up to handle that from what I see. How many aagreements does WP have with other alliances? Does WP even have diplomatic relations with anyone? These things would help in times of misunderstandings. With nothing in place, if someone were to go rogue as say attack the Goons, what do you think would happen? You have no agreement in place to disavow such an event. There are many small alliances that think very much like you do. War is the Game as far as CN goes. The WEPA comes to mind. Even when the five alliances took it to defend the unaligned nation I mentioned earlier. WEPA said basically bring it on, we love a good fight, even if it was they couldn't win and even if it meant they were ZI'd. Even they have rules as to what is acceptable behavior. Without it in times of crisis how can you have meanful conversations with potential adversaries? It wasn't anything I saw happening as much as what I saw could happen. When I went to bed last night the first time, I couldn't sleep for thinking what if I wake in the morning and we're in a war with the Legion over a tech raid. It distrubed so much I went back online and made the move to BTA. It was probably sooner than I would have liked and certainly less smoothly at this end than I would have liked. For that I apologize.

edited to correct word meanings.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Just quoting myself from a previous post to clarify my stance on attacking other nations. Also I would like to note no matter what rules any alliance lays down they have no real way to enforce them because you can't kick people out of the alliance just like you can't keep them from joining.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

As for my "near miss" with the Legion, well I had no way of knowing that my target was affiliated with them in any way. I also stopped my attacks once I found out the target was affilitated with them. I can't help it if someone shows as not belonging to any alliance, and yet is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif Also, I think the people from the Legion who contacted me telling me to stop knew that as well, and wouldn't attack due to that.

As for losing sleep over such a matter...well, personally, I think you're taking it a little too seriously. It's a game, not the end of the world if you are attacked http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif But really, if you are losing sleep over it, then rectifying that situation is probably the best thing you could do, and I understand why you did switch if that's what was happening.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Ok, IF I create a secondary alliance, with a charter laying out rules on when/how/if to attack, and codifying the boosting scheme below, and recruiting guidelines, etc., while still being strongly affiliated with Wombat Protectorate, how many would be interested in joining? My thinking right now would be attack only if someone in the secondary alliance is attacked first, or the nation is in an inactive alliance or unaligned and has not signed on in a week. Anyone involved in boosting cannot be involved in wars for the 10 days of the boosting process plus the two days immediately before (the boostee of course has this enforced by being in peace mode up until the very end).

My main concern in doing this is the threat that some of the more aggressive members of the alliance pose to my more conservative style of play. You all may think it's fine, but I know what I would do if I was in the leadership of one of the huge alliances and raids like Wilhelmia's on a nation that just received a $3,000,000 aid package (either directly or indirectly) annoyed me enough:
1) I would demand full reparations for the raided nation, equal to the amount of cash and tech stolen and soldiers killed, plus 2x the cost for the raided nation to buy back land, infrastructure, and tanks lost
2) When the raider says "Tough luck, I already spent it", and the raider is in an alliance, I would demand that the leadership of that alliance find a way to make equivalent reparations; it would include a suggestion that the reparations be obtained by raiding the rogue nation
3) If that demand is denied (or it's an unaligned nation), then I would take out the reparations manually by having "soldier" nations attack the rogue nation and random nations in the alliance within the strength range. The attacks will stop when either the alliance manages to pay the original reparations demands or the wars expire in a week. I would have the random nations attacked to encourage the alliance to keep members in line. If you want to be a rogue attacking whomever you feel like, then play the Tournament Edition.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

I realize you don't know they were affiliated with the Legion and you did everything right. But there are plenty of examples where something goes wrong and I was only using it as an example of the potential pitfalls for pursuing those type of attacks. I know it's a game and I'm not too sure I'm taking it that seriously. If I lost my nation, well it was fun while it lasted. It's just when something is on my mind that is unresolved, my brain keeps me awake working on various solutions or scenarios. It happens only occasionally and rarely over a game. Most times I do fall asleep. I think last night was an exception because I was up so late and had so little sleep that I was tense too. I have no ill feeelings and wish you guys well, I just realized I was in the wrong place is all. Afterall, we all play the best game going Space Empires. So when's that next patch coming out?

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Wow, lots of drama http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

That would work really good Will. The Legion's policy is pretty much as you stated. In fact I am a member of the Defiance Cohort. When a Legion member in my range is attacked they ask for help. An Admiral has to ok the deceleration of help first so there are no accidental treaty violations. Once it is ok'ed if the attacker is in my Cohort range I declare war. Someone from the Legion delivers a nasty gram and if the message is ignored we are let off our chains to ZI them.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

ZI??

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Zero Infrastructure. Basically, you destroy everything the player's nation has. Zero infrastructure means zero citizens means zero taxes means "you can't play anymore".

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

I like that... "Well, you were playing to win, attacked someone who was getting alliance aid through such convoluted means that the person looked unallied, so we're going to make sure you can't play anymore."

Personally, I offer peace almost immediately after a cattle raid. I'm not trying to ruin the game for anyone, just grab some quick money.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Counter punching and pre-computer wargames go hand in hand. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ASL, anyone?

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

That happened to me, too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Yes, that does bring back some memories, I probably have about 25,000 counters just for Squad Leader/ASL let alone the 100 or so other games floating around my spare bedroom. And not just punching them out of the sheets but using nail clippers to trim the corners. Boy, how did I ever find the time?

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

I usually did the corner clipping while watching TV. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I hear ya about the ASL/SL counters stashes. Oy. I was thinking of buying the new version of the ASL Intro Pack to try to teach my 14 year old son to play, but he doesn't even like Up Front. Grrrr! This video game generation just doesn't get it!

So as far as CN, the next step should be to have a SEIV PBW game with the Protectorate members. This newb needs all the schooling in SEIV that I can get!

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

I don't even play SE-IV xD

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

I seen the ASL Starters Kits being played at the WBC but haven't actually tried them. I heard a lot of good things about how they're setup for newbies though.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Yeah, it's really cool how Curt Schilling took an active part in saving that franchise. Ah, the WBC. I remember attending the very first Avaloncon. Those were the days!

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

I remember there was a Phillies homestand during an Avaloncon and Curt had his pitching rotation changed so he could attend and play ASL! That's why he helped startup Minuteman Publishing, so he could feed his addiction. Boy, don't I wish I had some of his loose change to feed my addictions.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Not to pick nits, but I believe it's Multiman Publishing(http://www.multimanpublishing.com/index1.php).

So, are you an east coaster then? I'm not far from Philly or the famous Hunt Valley, MD.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

You're right. It is Multiman not sure where my memory came up with Minuteman. Yes, I grew up outside of Philly in Chester County and once I left home I lived in Delaware for 10 years. Now I'm up in New Hampshire.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Didn't think to comment on this until someone else quoted it.

Just because people are friends doesn't mean they have compatible play styles. CW thinks war is the only interesting part of the game; I think the war mechanics look boring and of questionable efficiency in building your nation.

With no real financial commitment involved in playing, I can afford to ally with nations who follow a risky strategy like cattle raiding, but if this were not a free game, I'm not sure how long I'd stay in an alliance as aggressive as the Protectorate has turned out to be.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Well, thankfully, it IS a free game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif In other news, some of you may have noticed that I got bit back pretty hard on one of my cattle raids. Peace has been declared, but Wilhelmia has a little rebuilding to do. Wilhelmia will probably pull another raid tomorrow to recoup some expenses xD

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Well, this is going very well isn't it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I've sent four trade offers to as many nations and have just withdrawed them, after about two or three days. I have yet to receive anything period, except auto-generated spam from miscellaneous strangers wanting a trade (which always use the exact same formatting) and one message asking for my vote in a senate election. I'll try and make something out of it, but I do seem to be lagging behind in just about everything, together with a bunch of other forgotten nations on the bottom of the list.

My nation is called Neo-Athenia, btw.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

You should know that those trade offers you sent use the exact same auto-generated message that you got from strangers. If you get one, as long as the stranger is on the same team (Aqua), you should just accept it for now. The bonuses you get for accepting are worth a lot more than waiting for putting together all the resources you want long-term.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Strategia, I've got a couple open trade slots, but since we share a resource in common (Pigs) it wouldn't be the most profitable agreement. I'd say at this point your best bet would be to accept agreements from other Team Aqua members, or find your own.
Go to the Trade Agreements page, and search for Aqua under Nation Team. This'll bring up a list of everyone in Team Aqua. In the collumn for Resources, you'll see two icons representing their resources, and a little green checkmark under the two icons. If you hover your cursor over the green checkmark, it'll pop up with a little box telling you how many Total, Active and Pending trades someone has. Pick someone with less than 3 active trades and different resources to yourself, and send them a proposal. In my experience they're generally accepted, though prone to being randomly cancelled with no explanation. Such is life. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Well, OK then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I was just browsing the nether regions of the alliance list looking for trade partners, but I'll do what you say, I do need trade after all.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Ferenczia is open to trades with alliance members.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Fiducia just made a trade offer to Ferenczia.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

So, has anyone 'done the math' and figured when it's best to start buying improvements instead of just more infrastructure? Of course the military improvements are useful whenever you need military power, but the financial ones like the bank or the 'social' ones like schools or clinics are harder to figure out the cost-benefit situation for.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Math is different though depending on resources, infrastructure,etc. I read the programmer intended for it to be hard to figure out, we're to learn by doing. The general rules of thumb is around 1500 NS and you shouldn't have to save more than 2-3 days. You get no absolute consensus on which to buy first, but the general consensus all things being equal, is to buy the harbor first as this gives you an trade for resources. YMMV

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

I read a recommendation that you build up 200 Infrastructure before you start buying improvements and then it suggest Harbour be the first improvement.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Approved. I still have one slot open to trade my iron and gems if anyone else needs them.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

A new day of peace and prosperity has dawned over the nation of Wilhelmia! Today, for the first time since the founding of the nation, there is total and complete peace throughout the land. The soldiers relax, the children play in the streets, and all is well. To celebrate this newfound peacefulness, we shall go to war! Hurrah!

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

To update: I did some fun stuff, walked off with $110,000, but, they want to heavily go to war with me. I'm in peace mode right now, so they can't touch me. I'm going to withdraw from the alliance for now, just in case they decide to try to hurt some of you guys.

Re: OT: Cyber Nation
 

Hey, you guys. Just some advice. I noticed that New Norge is under attack by Hiroku. Hiroku claims to be a member of GATO. That may or may not be true. There have been a lot of rogues running using bogus alliance affiliations. Someone really ought to check with GATO and see if he's a member or not before deciding how to proceed or you could bring GATO down on you if you're not careful. Good Luck.