Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I REALLY wish I could give you answers. Its not that Im not allowed to, its just that even after 6 months of playing every day I just dont know.

The problem with this one is that as much as I WANT to finish a game, that isnt really part of beta testing. At least, not my part. So I have to start a game, play into it just far enough to feel as if Ive seen most of what that nation gets, then start another. I have to try all of the nations, in as many game variables as I can come up with. I also have to try and test all of the server features, and should try to test the mapping things. I feel guilty when I take one of the games too far just because Im having too much fun playing it. ALSO there is the fact that Johan regularly cranks out another version which often makes the old games worthless if not completely unloadable. Some balance experts and well known veteran players were invited to be beta but I havent seen if they have any answers yet

Im having fun. I started by knocking them down one step (Jester level), graduated up to the default level (Baron), and now I play with them one step higher (Knight) altho I tend to play with one AI ally also set to Knight level. So Im playing at level 4 of 10. The last couple of levels really jump up. Also, I havent even begun the options such as teaming up the AIs and cluster locations for them.

Again, Im not really supposed to be finishing games. I have played the games continuously for a full day before deciding I was at the point of just general cleanup (I had achieved pretty much all levels and now its down to fighting it out). Sometimes for 2 days straight before feeling like I could foretell the outcome. But I should mention I also play on abnormally large maps with max numbers of AIs

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

st.patrik has started a CoE3 AAR.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

What happens with resources in a team match? Is it a case of first there gets the resource to eternity or can I "steal" my allies resources?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

An ally can not fight an ally so if any unit is there then you cannot take it. However if your ally does not leave at least one unit there then you can take ownership by just walking into it.

Sometimes an AI ally will take a resource from you. But I figure it happens about as often as it would with human players :) It is best to select an ally who does not need the same type of resource as you.

Also, I can actually manipulate an AI ally almost as if it was a human player by deciding which resources to pull my guards off of. Especially allowing him to take a site such as a Castle where he can recruit if that castle is in an area I wish he would concentrate on. (all of this is much easier with a human player of course)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Does the recruitment screen look like COE2 (click on text) or Dom3 (click on unit picture)? I had some trouble in Dom3 differentiating between very similar types of units based on their appearance at the recruitment screen.

Thanks for the answers thus far (throughout the thread).

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Its Click on Text.
However the drawback of that is that you cannot right-click for stats before recruiting. You have to remember what each one is. For some of them the names are kindof confusing. I have a notepad file on them for my own reminding

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Is it a programming issue or design issue that you can't right click to see stats before recruiting? Because I would really like to be able to do that.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I dont know. I think its been requested

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

It most definitely is a design issue. I'm extremely surprised if it isn't.

If the game knows what type of unit will be recruited and can display a name, it should definitely be able to get the data on other stats too.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

New AAR, chronicling the adventures of a necromancer during the time of the Fallen Empire.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

OK change. The recruit screen DOES now show an image and DOES now allow right-click to see stats

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

2.94 made this question solved.
Pictures and information on recruitables.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Ooh Im enjoying the new move delays. Instead of everything jumping instantly to new positions and having to reread the whole map to get an idea of what happened, now I can put delays on AIs and Independents separately. I have a slow delay on AIs (almost human speed) and a faster delay on Indeps so I can still get an impression of where they moved from and to. Now I can watch the game being played by anyone else in my visual range.

Also it seems to be a switch that can be changed midgame. Which is good because Im thinking late in the game I might not like the speeds I have it at. But for now its a very fun change. Thanks Johan.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

"Conquest of Elysium 3 will be released at the latest on 20th February"

The phrase "at the latest" gives me some hope...

Just so I'm not launching unproductive and wistful posts into the forum stratosphere, here is another question: can you craft items and equip commanders with crafted items to create SCs as in Dominions 3? In my readings about the game, I just remember encountering information that one could equip items that were found/looted.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

You can find items, but they cannot be crafted. Just as well, otherwise everyone would craft Pendant of the Gods and a couple of other absolutely insane booster items on the bigger summons and go to town with them. No thank you.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Another good question. Yes at this point its only loot then equip.
On the plus side, CoE3 adds slots to EVERY unit. I cant think of any I have seen with no slots. So your frontline infantry can be given a better sword. Or your statue or monster usually has at least a couple of misc slots.

If you added forging to that I think the game could get crazy fast.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I dont want to jinx that release date but it seems that the closer it gets, the bigger the changes that get put in. Im getting nervous about testing every little thing as much as possible instead of my temptation to just start playing the game now.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I'll second that and am very VERY glad that items cannot be crafted.

Fantastic! Thanks again to you both.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I can. :D

Lesser elemental creatures (cloud elemental, lesser water, fire and earth, as well as water, fire, earth and air elemental) have no item slots at all, nor do will-o'the-wisp and creeping doom.

But that's the ones with no slots in total, I think.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I'm loving the changes (descriptions and movement) in the new build.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Liked the Necromancer report. Gives a good impression about what's about to come and how it plays. Very nice. :)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Excuse me, hoping this place might be right for this question:

I love Dominions3 for my multiplayer itch, and find it vastly suboptimal for my single-player needs. Am I right in understanding that COE3 is almost the other way around? That is, it is designed as a single-player game and will come with a dedicated, halfway challenging AI? Or am I mistaken? Any verbose discourse on the AI / SP-applicability of this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

If you liked the Necro AAR so far, you're going to love the latest update! :D


You came to the right place to ask, yes. And you're correct on all counts. CoE3 is much more a SP game, but it also has excellent multiplayer capabilities if you like to set up an MP game with a couple of friends. The MP side is very much blitz, but SP is challenging and each of the 17 (so far) classes has a separately programmed AI.

Gandalf can discuss the AI in more detail, since he has paid more attention to that side, but since there are separate AIs, they usually know what they are doing and can be surprisingly competent. I've gotten steamrolled a few of times even by level 4 (out of 10) AI and if you ramp it up much more than that (depending on what you play yourself), you're going to get smashed to pulp.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

As Edi pointed out, each nation has a unique AI playing to that nations strengths and faults. In Dom3 there was one generic nation trying to work the same for all nations. Yes the AI definitely makes a challenging enemy. On the other hand, you can also team up with the AI. It makes a surprisingly competent ally. Its best to pick a nation that does not have the same resource requirements that you do.

I really doubt there will be much play of a human vs all maximum AIs in this game. But it could be fun to ally all against one max AI.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I wonder why CoE3 should be more for single player than multi player in comparison to Dom3.
Usually, games with a faster pace are better for MP because they don't take so long.
Especially if CoE3 has a good AI, it would be perfect for cooperative MP games vs. the AI.

I only tried Don3 in MP once, and I found the independent server setup quite irritating. In addition, the server crashed every round and it only worked because the game was also saved every round and could be reloaded.

An easier (and more stable) multiplayer setup than Dom3 would be nice.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Its hard to make a full judgement. Most of the beta testers seem more solo than mp oriented. The strongly MP and Balance people that were invited have not provided much. I am biased toward Solo but it seems to me that the game-changing events are stronger in CoE3 than Dom3 which can tick off MPers who want to win by skill rather than luck.

But yeah we will have to wait and see how things play out once the game is released.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

No, you don't need Desura to play it (or any other games you got from desura).
Inside the Desura folder you'll find binaries/scripts that you can launch outside Desura.

But you need to launch desura to get updates etc. etc.


<=== pre-ordered today!

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Arkhan, I suppose that yes, CoE3 can be better also as MP. setting up a server is not difficult and once it's been set up, nearly everything transfers over to the players.

The manual has instructions on the server setup and connection stuff too.

MP is stable and if you drop out, you can reconnect after a small interval (the server needs to realize you've dropped out).

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I preordered a while ago, mistakenly thinking at the time it would give me access to the beta. I don't mind though, but wow, the game looks awesome from the AARs I've seen and I can't wait. I'm a big fan of Dominions 3 too.

Anyways, have you guys contacted RockPaperShotgun about the game yet? This is the sort of game people at that site love, and it always seems to help sales for indie projects like this.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Thank you yes. There are already two threads about CoE3 there.

But if you think of any others, feel free to mention them.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

thank you for those replies. That pleases me to hear, since I am not looking for a "simpler" Dom3 for MP (or rather: one with comparably incompetent AI). If the devs also plan on supporting this game's SP aspects like they have been supporting Dom3s issues, I will be very pleased indeed (e.g. updates to AI). Thank you much, looks like I'll be preordering. Erm, I just see that's not on shrapnel's store -- odd. Don't know that one. Maybe not preordering?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

If you check out the progress page for CoE3
http://jaffa.illwinter.com/coe3/coe3progress.html
you will notice AI getting mentioned often. Johan tends not to be too specific what he did when he posts it (he likes to surprise us) but they do show up often. I think he enjoys it. I dont think we could keep Johan from tweaking the AI even long after the game is released.

There is also trigger commands that the players can use to write responses into a map. You can create your own events and surprises. Entering an area, or a site, could trigger a sudden increase of enemy units becoming available. Getting too many of a certain unit might trigger a revolt where many of them switch sides. I cant wait to see what the fertile minds here come up with.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

The game will not be sold by Shrapnel, but by desura.com, where you can already pre-order if you wish (it will save you a few $/€)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Pre-ordered and counting down.....

:)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Just preordered the game :D

The AARs are gr8. Thanks!

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Thank you very much.
Unless I am mistaken, I realize that you, Mr. Parker, are a particular SP fan and (while our opionions of when a game is a "good" one for SP may differ, since you appear to rate Dom2-3 much higher on SP-applicability than I do) hence I take your words as great approval. As you can see, I am greatly satisfied with Dom3 as my NUMBER ONE multiplayer game (I cannot imagine a better one), and I am not looking for another similar one to enhance my MP experience. I need, however, a good SP fix.

I still have 2 brief questions, if I may, 1 about the product and one about the distribution.

Product: Am I right in gleaning what I could from the video that the turns are not entirely simultaneous? That is, your units move around the map and only combat is processed at the end of the turn? Or is combat also not simultaneous? (It almost looked as if you could click on stuff and give orders during combat.) I mean all this is assuming that that black screen with figures on it was the combat screen. (Will there be a battlefield with terrain or is the black screen what the devs envision?)

Distribution: Sorry to continue to pester you on this, I've never heard of Desura but if you all trust it, then that speaks for it. The lack of information there confuses me a bit, however. May I ask?
- "product is delivered digitally": so I get to DL it one time? A certain number of times? What happens when I change machines? Sorry this is important for me before preordering, which I normally never do anyhow.
- Is it like Steam in that I need to have an internet connection to play certain games (e.g. be logged onto steam to start a game launch)? Or can I DL the product and then proceed to play on laptop w/out internet? Also important for me as an SP player.
- Why is Illwinter leaving Shrapnel for Desura? Not that I am married to Shrapnel, I would MUCH prefer digital distribution anyhow (I live in Europe and dislike overseas shipping costs), and the price seems much more suited to a wider target group than Shrapnel's pricing of Dom2-3 was -- just curious really.

Thank you so very much.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

How does the resource system / economic model work in CoE3?
I guess it's more simple than in Dom3, isn't it?

Can you build stuff? Cities? Buildings?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

The resource system is much simpler. They go by different names, but essentially all classes require some different special resources (like gems of a different path) for their specific rituals.

Rituals are class specific in the sense that they are available only to certain commanders of a certain class, but if another player charms that commander, he can use those same rituals. Charm a warlock, use elemental summonings. Charm a necromancer, gain necromancy etc.

You can't build stuff like cities, forts etc. Some classes can do some very limited terraforming (Burgmeister can change farms to Hoburg Villages, under certain circumstances anyone can burn down forests and the enchanter destroys lots of stuff to build things).

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Is this possible outside from charm to get access to other casters or units that thos available from start ?

Some special site allowing you to recruit special units maybe ?

There was talks previously on special recruitable not showing all turns, maybe some casters can show there as mercenaries ?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Some mages appear as mercenaries and some you can summon. Mage being here anything from an actual mage to a demon or other fantastic being capable of casting rituals.

Some wizards can be recruited, but they do not know any rituals, just combat magic. There are no sites that allow you to recruit special units, but some sites increases the chances of getting offers from wizards, and other sites increase the chance of getting priest offers for recruitment.

And mages are always announced special recruitment. Something like Dai Bakemono for the Bakemono or goblin archers for Troll King can appear unannounced and disappear next turn, but wizard recruitment is always accompanied by a recruitment offer message.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

As beta testers we are still making recommendations, and they get implemented as the developers see fit. Apparently decided on things like: if they want it in the game, if its fun to implement, or if its easy to implement, if players seem to want it. With the weight being in basically that order. Things move pretty fast and it seems best not to try to pin down absolutes yet on what they will or will not do. So I am afraid that many of the answers tend to be "as of now".

The game is turn based. Moves are made, everyone ends turns, then combat, then new turn. Allies CAN make their moves simultaneous but combat still happens after all moves. No orders are given during combat. As of now combat is black screen. (terrains are very changeable in this game so Id be surprised if the black screen changed but wont say its an absolute)

I have no idea. The pre-order thing came out of the blue and caught me completely off guard. I do not get the impression that Desura will be THE distributor. Especially since it doesnt seem to support Mac versions. Some other distributors are still being actively discussed. (Many seem to be rather divided between being good for the publisher, or good for the players, or good for the developer IMHO.) We do not yet know if Shrapnel is in or out, much less any whys. As far as the pricing that might have just been the developers opinion.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

What about teching? The ultimate 'core' of Dominions 3 was spell research with the goal of creating the most overpowered, broken and unbalanced super monster allowed within the rule system.
Well, there were other purposes as well, but I used it mainly for that... ;)

Is CoE3 also about spell research? What do use your resources for?
Troops, summons, research?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

There is no real research or forging. You can visit a library to learn a random new spell, or you find get a scroll as combat loot which allows you to add a new spell to a mage. For equipment it tends to come as combat loot. It can be redistributed among all troops (not just commanders).

Resources are for getting more units. Some nations collect herbs for summons, some use gems to create mechanicals, some need cities to get sacrifices for summons, some need gold to recruit, some need iron to recruit more armored units or siege weapons. Most of them have multiples of the above to different amounts so no one is entirely stuck with the results of just one resource but they do tend to have obvious preferences.

In the end it is not as many optioned as Dom3. Its simpler and plays faster. But it is still varied enough to offer a lot of game. A much faster game.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Does that mean every team moves and then combat happens? Or does combat happen at the end of each team's turn? I'd hate to see player X acting earlier in the turn just bumping player Y's big army with a lone commander to stop them from moving on player Y's turn.

How is turn order decided? Just cyclic based on the order in the setup list?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

In SP, combat happens at the end of the player's turn. Meaning if I play red and attack blue, that is resolved at the end of my turn. If he then attacks me, that plays at the end of his turn.

In network MP, I'm not quite sure how it happens, because if you're moving sequentially with your ally, you should be able to attack an enemy. Meaning if red and blue are allied, and red moves to attack yellow and then blue moves to attack the same stack, they attack together at the end of blue's turn but before yellow player moves.

Turn order is the color sequence. Red, blue, green, yellow, purple, teal, brown, white, which also corresponds to player numbers 0-7. It does not vary, but if you play with less than eight players, you can add all in game setup, then delete the colors you don't want from the in between slots.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

In COE2, if you have multiple commanders and put them all on the same spot, it gets somewhat difficult and tedious to move them together (for instance, if I want to combine a Troll King, an unexpected hero, and Mum the Troll into a single force, I have to perform three moves for each one every turn). Does COE3 have any sort of option to "link" move commands for all commanders on a square so you don't have to cycle through commanders and move them individually or perhaps a commander hierarchy in which you can make "officers" of other commanders?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Yes. They can be grouped and commanders can even be subordinated to others so that they vanish from the list and act like regular units. They can also be turned back to regular commanders by reversing the subordination.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

But if there's neither spell research nor building, then how does a player get more powerful?
If I start start as a Necro and can summon longdead at the start, then how could I ever beat this 'Thing of Unreason'?
Do I just summon long dead warriors until I can just overwhelm it with mass, or are there ways to get spells for more powerful summons?
And if there are, are there other ways to get them besides random locations?
Not sure if this feature will be my favourite. I never was a big fan of the random spells in HoMM.

Can I play a certain 'strategy' with a character, like trying to get big nasty summons with a necro? I also think I heard something about a Lich and/or vampire transformation.
Is this just by accidant or can I 'provoke' it?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

There is no spell research, but there is resource accumulation. Since the AAR is going to display them fairly soon in any case (barring a savegame break), let us use Necromancer as an example:

Necromantic rituals are as follows:
- Raise Dead (no resource cost, incurs 6 points of insanity)
- Minor Summoning (20 Hands of Glory)
- Major Summoning (80 hands)
- Summon Legion (200 hands, requires Battlefield)
- Transfrom into a Vampire (125 hands, requires Old Castle)
- Ritual of Necromantic Mastery (50 for apprentice, becomes Necromancer)
- Ritual of Necromantic Mastery (150 for Necromancer, becomes Grand Necromancer)
- Transform into a Lich (250 hands, requires Temple or Ancient Temple, must be Grand Necromancer)

The major summonings from Necromancy can provide some pretty seriously powerful creatures and once you mass enough of those and preferably turn yourself into a lich, you could take it down, but expect serious losses.

As far as spell gain, all mage classes have a ritual of mastery, which upgrades the starting mage into a better mage and gives them access to tier 3 spells. You gain two spells that way. The rest you have to learn at libraries or from scrolls. Or if you can blow more resources on rituals of mastery rather than summons, you can gain more level 3 spells.

Then again, many of the more powerful rituals will summon level 3 casters for you, gaining you more mages/SCs that you can use simultaneously for the same price as gaining one more spell for a mage who can only use one at a time.

As far as rituals are concerned, they are hardwired into the commanders. If you have a certain commander, say Necromancer, that commander can cast all of the rituals available to him given the resources. And if a commander can cast a ritual that requires some specific resource, he can also gather it. So if you charmed a necromancer, you could gather Hands of Glory after that, even if you couldn't normally.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I tend to play on REALLY big maps (larger than the game offers on the menu). And even though the ceiling cap on CoE3 seems low compared to Dom3 I never feel it to be too restrictive. If I try real hard I might get one unit to the maximum ability it can achieve. But when I do its only for beta testing purposes because the unit is basically out of the game for too long for that to be worthwhile. By the time its maxed out, its so far behind my front lines that its hardly worth leaving home.