Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Why somebody would use those big weapon platforms? The only benefit which I see is a smaller percent is devoted to computer core. Do I miss something?

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Compare how quickly you lose firepower when large WPs are being destroyed as opposed to small WPs being destroyed. If a small can take 200 damage and a large can take 400, when the planet takes 200 damage, half of its firepower will be gone if it had 2 small WPs. If it had a large one, no firepower is lost at this point.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Good point. But the difference isn't big between 600kt and 800kt platforms. So I don't think it's worth to research Ground Fortress unless everything important is already researched.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

So how would you suggest I improve them?

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

It's a fortress, right? So give it special shield and armor mounts... to make my standard weapon platforms cheaper, I often leave out the combat sensors and design a "Command Center" with just the computer core, combat sensors or Religious Talisman, and lots of armor or shields (to make sure it has more HP than any other platform, so it gets hit Last), and build one on each planet. This works especially well in Proportions with its 100kT, 4000-mineral Fire Control Centers! Wouldnt' want one of THOSE on every platform! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif So anyway, you take this fortress and make it your command center, fill it up with lots of armor with a special mount, and you've got something that's guaranteed to get hit Last, and when it is, it can hold out for a while! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

WPs are actually hit in random order. However, each shot hits a new random WP. The damage all builds up as one sum and adds to each new shot until enough is done to destroy the WP that was randomly selected. WPs with fewer HPs tend to be destroyed before those with more HPs because the chance of enough damage having been accumulated to destroy one is greater than against a tougher WP. But, there is no gaurantee.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Some nice mount for Ground Fortress would be nice. Perhaps a weapon mount with more accurary bonus and range, or more damage.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

There is still a significant risk of it being destroyed before all other WPs are gone.

Maybe I will just give the WP "hulls" a built-in CS bonus. 10% per level sound good?

[ December 15, 2003, 17:07: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

The risk depends how the platforms are destroyed, and I'm not quite sure about it. There's two possible ways weapon platforms are destroyed are:

1. Completely random, each platform has equal likelihood to be selected

2. The likelihood is related to HPs of platform, similar way to the destruction of components in ships. Thus if you have 600kt and 200kt platforms, it's 75% probability to hit 600kt platform and 25% probability to hit 200kt platform.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is the way in which all planetary cargo is destroyed. One of the recent patches made it so that WPs get destroyed before all other cargo, but the method of destruction remains the same.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Since weapon platforms are destroyed completely random there's practically no risk to lose your command center.

Example (otherwise you won't believe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ):
1 fully armored command center platform: 22000 HP
platform with weapons and armor: 6700 HP

Assume the planet is bombarded with global death ray in heavy mount, 750 damage. After 8 shots the weapon platform can be destroyed so the rest of the shots must hit to command center. That means 22000/750 - 8 = 22 consecutive shots must hit to command center. Each hit has 50% probability to hit command center, which means it's 0.5^22= 0,000023% likelihood that command center is destroyed first. And that's the best case, if there is 10 weapon and one command platform the odds are even smaller. And if the weapon does less damage than 750, like most of weapons do, the odds are again even smaller.

So do you still think it's significant risk? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

I think you misunderstood significant risk. I did not say huge risk, I said that the risk is significant enough to be meaningful.

Also, keep in mind that WPs do NOT take partial damage. All damage gets built up until a shot randomly selects a WP that has enough damage built up to destroy it. You do NOT need 22 consecutive hits against it to destroy the Command Center WP.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

0,000023% means if you do 4.3 million attacks it's one time when command center is destroyed before the weapon platform. You really think that's meaningful? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Did you even read what I wrote? You DO need 22 consecutive hits to command center or the weapon platform is destroyed first. After 8 shots there is so much damage built up so the ninth shot will destroy the weapon platform, so it must hit to the command center. After that EVERY shot must hit to command center until there is enough damage built up that it's destroyed. If only one of those 22 shots hits to weapon platform it's destroyed first.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sounds good. Are you going to remove the mount accuracy bonus? I think you shouldn't, weapon platforms have usually great difficulties to hit ships.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

If only computers actually made real random calculations... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I do not plan to remove the to hit bonus of WP mounts.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Version 0.13.22 released!

Files Altered: CompEnhancement.txt, VehicleSize.txt
1. Added - Weapon Platforms get a +10-40% bonus to hit.
2. Added - Added Orbital Fighter Reactor Mount.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh, looks like I'll have to change my strategy then... for my command centers I was building small WP's filled with enough armor to make sure they have more HP than the most HP of any WP, but looks like I'll have to build the largest WP's possible!

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yep. If the command center has two or three times more HP than other platforms there's almost no risk to lose it before other platforms.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Note that I have expanded the Help documentation for the mod on its website:

http://adamant.spaceempires.net/help/

These will be in the next major release of the mod.

What suggestions do you have for new areas that could use a help file on?

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Computers random calculations aren't good but still you won't get 22 times the same result when you're randomizing numbers. Even when randomizing only two numbers.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

I think you should add a new section to your help file about the changes between stock and Adamant. Especially changes in settings.txt, like population growth check frequency, population damage resistance, cost of unmothballing etc.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Does combat modifiers affect on troops? And do I recall correctly that it's only the damage to range 1 which matter in troop weapons, range, reload time or special damage type has no effect?

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Yep, you're right, Asmala... which means that Shield Depleters (and Accelerators) are far and away the uber troop weapons; even in stock they far surpass ground cannons! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Bug: Siege Fortifications and Combat Command has same family number.

Is there any reasonable use for Siege Fortifications? You get much more HPs using armor, and it's even cheaper.

Shield depleters etc. should removed from troops, as the special damage type is ignored.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, but in an abstract and non-random way. Test out some combats comparing troops with CS invading a large planet (with no troops, just militia) with the same number of troops with no CS (and leave that extra space empty so as not to invalidate the results).

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmm... guess I should have looked over the Bio-Psych mod a bit more carefully before implementing it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

If I have a mixed group of troops, is it the highest or lowest value in attack/defence which matter? Is attack bonus for invading troops and defence bonus for defence troops (sounds logical http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) or attack bonus when dealing damage and defence bonus when receiving damage?

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

The best to hit value in the stack is used, just like all other unit stacks.

As for question 2, I believe it is the latter.

[ December 16, 2003, 22:16: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hows this?

http://adamant.spaceempires.net/help...s_Changes.html

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Great. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif More like that and it's much easier to start playing Adamant.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">How the presence of Abomination saps the morale of friendly forces then? If there are any friendly forces they have better attack and defence values which are used.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Such as?

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Tech tree for each race would be splendid. It would help a lot to make overall view of the mod.

If you're new to the mod you'd start a new game with full techs and check through the components to see what's available. Then you notice a nice armor you'd like to research. But how you now what to research? First open the components.txt, find the component and check the tech requirements. Open the techareas.txt search the tech, notice it has one prerequisite, search it, notice it has again one prerequisite, search it and then you know what to research. Not so handy.

Of course I use SE4Modder which makes that much easier but I think most players don't use that.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmm... guess I should have looked over the Bio-Psych mod a bit more carefully before implementing it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What if the fortification was a Defense-penalty combined with EA ability?

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

I don't think EA works on units? Especially not on WPs?

You can get a tech tree by starting a full tech game and exporting the tech list in the research window. It does not export everything that tech gives you, but it shows all tech reqs IIRC. And with technologies often named after what they are (I am very creative http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ), it works fairly well. I will probably make a real one at some point, but this will be good for now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ December 18, 2003, 08:39: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

List of all components giving combat bonuses would be great addition to the help section.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Additionally, I have exported both the tech areas and tech levels parts of the in-game tech tree and saved them as excel spreadsheet files. There are also comma separated text Versions in the zip. It is available here:

techtree.zip <-- 117 kB

Note that if a tech area has multiple requirements, it has multiple lines in the files.

Not entirely sure just how useful this will be, but there it is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Anyone want to figure out a way to make a program generate a graphical representation?

[ December 19, 2003, 20:57: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just what I had in mind (Actually better than that, I didn't think about Tech Reqs). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That would be a real challenge. I don't know a way you can make the tech tree clear even if you'd do it by hand. Let a program do it and I'd bet the result is messy, considering the amount of techs there are in Adamant.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Well you can divide the number by 3 if you make a separate tree for each paradigm. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Actually... once you do that, and discount the trees for the racial tech traits (which are identical for each paradigm), the number of techs in Adamant for each paradigm is only like 10-20% greater than the number in stock SE4...

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

So the maximum allowable number of satellites in any sector is 5000... perhaps I should add a Siege Cannon that has a damage ratio on the order of 8 (APBs are around 2...) that can target only satellites that comes fairly late in the tech tree, for busting up super stacks? What do you think?

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Don't think it would be required. A stack of 5000 sats would be a pretty big investment- anything used to kill them should be too.

Besides, you could only do that four times, since IIRC there is a maxium cap of 20,000 units for the entire game..

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Even 500 satellites is a killer stack... especially with the number of hit points you can give them with the armor available. Up to 32 hp/kT for the best armor. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Whoops! It is 500 max instead of 5000... thanks ekolis! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

So anyways... it still applies. 500 satellites is a huge defensive chunk... and with the range bonus they get...

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Someone (maybe Matryx?) wrote a program to display tech trees, but they were a mess onscreen even with the stock data files, not to mention Adamant's techs with up to 4 prerequisites! However, it probably wouldn't be too difficult for me to put together something where you pick the technology you want in a combo box and the program traverses the tech tree to find all its prerequisites (edit: and their prerequisites, and so on - if you just wanted the tech's prerequisites you could find it the techarea.txt file in 15 seconds http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif ), which is pretty much what people want anyway... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

edit: hey, this is my 1666th post! I am the devil plus a millennium! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ December 24, 2003, 18:04: Message edited by: Ed Kolis ]

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

Is there accuracy bonus in satellite mounts? In stock game satellites are useless (in that purpose) without talisman because only 1 of 100 shots hit against trained ships.

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

No... but ship and fleet training max at 15% (total).

Re: Adamant Mod Discussion Thread (v0.14.07 released!)
 

If fully trained ships have ECM, stealth armor, stealth shield, best engines and fanatic command satellites won't hit them. But that would require a huge researching first so it's not a problem.