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Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent

Agreed, when not playing an Organic Race, but with Human Player Option 1 selected =(less Star Liners), the surplus food is only good for trade at your Center or with other Races http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 24, 2003, 17:46: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent

No, I don't have myself trouble with maintenance, I am only saying that the maintenance characteristic is currently too expensive after threshold to be a viable option. If I had a problem with maintenance, you are right I would take Crystalline. (I always forget if it is -20% or -30% maintenance in a given system though) And if you take Crystalline, Engineering Sections, Alternate Worker (+10% production resource AND +6% maintenance) with not too expensive hulls, maintenance is even less a problem.

My main concern is that increasing the maintenance characteristic at the beginning of the game isn't currently worth it, except perhaps in a couple of situations. (Finite games mostly, or a game in which you play a race like the Nomads in P&N for instance, and perhaps other special cases) And it is especially true when you are after threshold, when every single point in Maintenance costs 300 points, while its effects are somewhere between almost nothing and -0,5% of upkeep, depending on the hull.

Currently I would only consider taking high values of mineral production, as there doesn't seem to be a drawback for doing so. (As I am NOT playing a finite game. Such a case is quite different I gather) Although I may consider raising Maintenance as far as the threshold, when it is still cheap.

As I was... well, a bit too harsh I believe, I should say that the situation may be the same in previous Versions of the mod, or in the vanilla game, and that I failed to see it then. (Quite likely) But it was this 300 points after threshold that stroke me the very first time I launched the game. And besides, I can only welcome an attempt to change the way maintenance is handled, compared to the vanilla game. (I am not sure how it was in AIC 3.2. *Grumbles*)

For now, I would support an increase of the cost after threshold for the mineral production (perhaps 100 points?) and a decrease of the cost needed to increase maintenance after threshold, especially as they are other ways to decrease upkeep. (200 points?) Please keep in mind though that these are only rough values, and I have yet to fully consider these proposals, with yet other calculations.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent

Originally posted by Alneyan:

Quote:

And if you take Crystalline, Engineering Sections, Alternate Worker (+10% production resource AND +6% maintenance) with not too expensive hulls, maintenance is even less

Agreed, I posted this info more of a FYI for the new comers to AIC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Quote:

My main concern is that increasing the maintenance characteristic at the beginning of the game isn't currently worth it - And it is especially true when you are after threshold,

when every single point in Maintenance costs 300 points, while its effects are somewhere between almost nothing and -0,5% of upkeep, depending on the hull.

Exactly, up to 5% may be worth it. However, beyond 5%, it may be too pricey for most http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Quote:

Currently I would only consider taking high values of mineral production, as there doesn't seem to be a drawback for doing so.

With AIC v4.0, you may notice an increase of near 40% towards Mineral Gathering Facilities over v3.02 may offset the 5% Maintenance Threshold a bit

Quote:

Although I may consider raising Maintenance as far as the threshold, when it is still cheap.

As do most of us http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Quote:

For now, I would support an increase of the cost after threshold for the mineral production (perhaps 100 points?) and a decrease of the cost needed to increase maintenance after threshold, especially as they are other ways to decrease upkeep. (200 points?)
Please keep in mind though that these are only rough values, and I have yet to fully consider these proposals, with yet other calculations.

We sure have time to consider tweaks for v4.01, but you may may approve of the compensatory additions; with the increased values for the Mining Facilities after all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ October 24, 2003, 18:24: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent

=======================================
AI Campaign V4.0 UPGRADE
=======================================

Conceptual:
New Event file with good and bad events; and a Default high zip file that operates at 84% High Event Chance frequency for an ever changing universe. Settings of 100% is Possible without the Heroes Epic or a Cursed starting trait.
Added additional Random events with images.
New 6 varied Event file zip options.
Tweaked Finite Economics Module.
Tweaked AI Balance Module.
Tweaked AI Player Minesweeping - Mottlee
Reduced AI inherent Minesweeping.
Tweaked Strategic and Tactical Fighter Module.

TECH:
New Tech Veneration.
New Tech Immigration.
Tweaked some additional Techs.

Facilities:
New Facilities Debarkation Depot.
New Facilities Heroes Epics and Faith Shrine.
Increased Climate Control Facility values, Alneyan.
Tweaked Nature and some Planet Utilization Facilities costs ~Oleg
Lowered Costs and increased capacity for Resource Storage Facilities ~GLV & Oleg
Further tweaked Planet Utilizations.
Tweaked many Facilities.

Vehicles:
New Frigates now can have 5 Engines.
Reminder that Fast Colonizers also can have 4 Engines.
Revised Freighter Cargo Capacity.
Tweaked small ship maneuverability modifiers for increased specialization.
Human Players Fast Frigates have gained an extra engine.
New Deep Space Supply Base.

Components:
New Ram Scoop Components.
Emergency Propulsion Fix ~ PTF
Corrected some Roman Numerals 3 ~Spoo
Revised Solar Sails ~Spoon
Revised Fighter and Sat Armor ~Oleg
Tweaked many Components.

Intel Projects:
New 2 varied Psychic Intel Zip Options.
Revised and tweaked Psychic Intel Projects and Intel Facilities.

Quadrant Maps:
Open Warp distances for Stellar Manipulation 1 (3to4)(5to6) ~QB
Added/or tweaked Centurion Systems for all quads.

Interface:
Corrected many Typos.

Notes:
Revised order for Random Events ~Oleg
Revised Happiness File ~Fyron
Refugee Images ~Oleg
Some additional AI Player med and late game growth tweaks
Non Psychotic AI anger levels adjusted to be more tolerant to the Human Players with this Version.
Adaptations from PvK's Culture Mod.

Human Player may mix options below.

NEW~Trait Human Player option 1 (O1*) Human Players Advantage: Resulting in a more robust game that requires LESS Micro Management and logistics. Your game will be less dependent on Star Liners with this option.
~Trait Human Player option (O2) Human Player - Advantage for a Balance: That will result in a Better all around Home World.
~Trait Human Player option (O3) Human Player - Excellent Advantage: For a much higher Proportions of Resources (not recommended for Finite Games).
~Trait Human Player option (O4) Human Player - Results in a game requiring more logistics.

~Players may also add (mp1 thru 3) for Handicapping for Multiplayer. MP1-3 May also be used in Solo games, great for a Dual Race Bonus.
~Trait Human Player option (SF) Human Player - Terminal Advantage: Strategic Fighters(gives Fighters System move capabilities)
NEW~Races that you wish not to start your next random game; Place in the [Pictures folder/Race removed from play folder].

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

AIC v4.0 is a stand alone and full upgrade.
Download size (4.07 meg)

(>>> AI Campaign v4.0 <<<)

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent

Quote:

New Event file with good and bad events; and a Default high zip file that operates at 84% High Event Chance frequency for an ever changing universe.

Settings for the Default are LOW 20% MED 40% HIGH 60% frequency.

Use your judgment when starting a new game and that at first it may be best to use the Starting Event Frequency :

For your New in Game Starting Options:
Low Player Count (set at Low in game Event Frequency)
Med Player Count (set at Low or med in game Event Frequency)
High Player Count (set at Med or High in game Event Frequency)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent

Yes, idealistically every characteristic or trait would be equally viable, but that is only... well, an ideal. For now, Maintenance doesn't quite seem to be attractive after threshold, while I would believe that almost all other characteristics can be useful with regards to a specific play style.

I will tell you after some play how I consider minerals compared to previous Versions, and how necessary it seems to raise mineral production. (But at a mere 60 points after threshold, it seems so tempting to raise mineral anyway, even if you won't lack this resource. Minerals are always in shortage in all the other games, so why not having a surplus of minerals to make a change? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

And it goes without saying that, for now, I am the only one who gave my opinion about this subject. So the tweak cannot quite happen now, with only a single voice. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent

Quote:

Originally posted by JLS:
New Event file with good and bad events; and a Default high zip file that operates at 84% High Event Chance frequency for an ever changing universe. Settings for the Default are LOW 20% MED 40% HIGH 60% frequency.

JLS the new Events are fantastic. I started my game at dawn and I haven't stopped playing the game since http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Did I mention your new Events are great. I like the way set up the Medical Teams as an event that gives us a chance to answer a medical crisis before it gets out of control, nice touch.

Warping that now has a new meaning http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

RAIDERS: Playing against them is like a game with in a game (sweet)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[ October 24, 2003, 20:45: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent

Hmm... looks like time for AI work for a certain mod... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Quote:

Revised Happiness File ~Fyron

For the 8 millionth time... I did not make that file. I have no idea who did, but it was not me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[ October 24, 2003, 22:23: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent

Observing the Extras folder http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

I assume "default psychic intel" could be implemented in the default intel projects file, or is it different?

And, what does this intel projects file do: "psychic intel HP CI" ?

What's tha difference(s) between default, high and low event frequency files?

Ah, this weekend will become a good one... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent

Quote:

Originally posted by Alneyan:
From what I have seen, great job JLS! I have the feeling I will love the first option, as I tend to be quite lazy from time to time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

For now, I have only one query: how Maintenance is supposed to be working? It seems like the Maintenance characteristic doesn't do much. Here are a couple of examples:

* 100: costs nothing, upkeep 10%
* 105: costs 500 points, upkeep 9,5%
* 115: costs 2900 points, upkeep 8,5%
* 130: costs 5900 points, upkeep 7,0%
Culture neutral for every test, and the test was done with a ship needing 1000 mineral. The results for the upkeeps are accurate with a margin of 0,1% , although I could redo them with a more expensive ship. The results were checked by the organic and rad costs and the upkeep for these two resources.

So, a point in Maintenance reduces the upkeep by 0,1%, while Maintenance costs 300 points after 108. Isn't this cost a bit too much? Or am I missing something really obvious JLS?

Yes, I do need to live up to my status of Most Annoying Black Hole. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I think maintenance numbers are fine - if you spend 500 points, upkeep of 1K ship goes from 100 to 95 -> reduction by 5% -> your economy is better of by 5% in minerals, radio and organics. To get the same effect by raising production bonuses, you should spend points to buy 5% in all 3 categories.