Re: Unit Cost Equation
 

Holy units, yes. I have never argued this point.

Holy commanders, no. You can show that, using the modding guidelines, Holy commanders don't cost any more than non-Holy commanders.

Now, Sacred commanders that are not priests (like the Shaman) generally do cost more.

As for there not being an IW formula, there are the modding guidelines. And if we are not to follow those in any more than the most general way, why have them? And to ask for a more-or-less accurate formula to follow when costing units is not 'slavish'. It's a way to ensure that units are equitable on a given scale.

Several of us are trying to establish a formula that will horizontally balance the commanders in the game. Are you saying that we should not?

I mean, if I followed the mod guidelines to the letter, a Holy-2 priest that are 50g come out to be 75g (50g, plus a 50% increase incost for being Sacred). A Daughter of Avalon, made using those mod guidelines, cost 180g (90g for magic + 30g for commander + 50% for being Sacred).

To finish, not a single commander that is a Priest, and several commanders that are sacred, has a cost that can be computed from the current mod guidelines. As such, if you insist that such a price increase is necessary, I hereby ask for better guidelines so that modding can be done better and more properly in the future.

Re: Unit Cost Equation
 

Use common sense, extrapolate from other units etc. I am a little sceptical to if you are liable to arrive at better or more balanced costs by assigning them from a formula. In order for the formula to be 'shown' to be balanced you have do one of two things
1. compare the prices the formula gives to preexisting prices
2. scrap the previous prices and experiment with the formula until you think that it results in reasonable prices.

In the first case you are accepting previously made judgements based on rough estimate and a certain amount of arbitrariness, in the second case you are comparing the newly derived formula based values to your own rough estimate of the relative worth of the respective units. In either case you are making estimates based on your intuitions. You can't escape making judgement calls, either you do it in when you induvidually assign prices to units or you do it when you check your to see if you formula produces reasonable costs. Add to this that it is a tall order for any formula to take in account the very variable effects of the various abilities in dominions and the synergies that might or might not develop and I think you will have serious practical problems in defining a formula that even begins to approach what you seem to be aiming for.

My personal experience from board games PnPRPG and CRPG is that the kind of possibilities present when you mod a nation in dominions is very hard to manage according to a set formula. I think rough guidelines and common sense, while not perfect or infallible, are preferable, in part because they do not impart the false promise of impartiality.


Edited for clarity

Re: Unit Cost Equation
 

Scott,

The method Sushi is using is pretty sophisiticated. His model is not as sophisticated as it could be. To help him make his model better, you could take his copy of my adapted edi's Unit_DB.xls, and parse out all of the special abilities. That would help a LOT.

I assure you that unless you make a unit that is more like a summonable (with crazy special powers) than a normal unit, you should get a pretty good result.

IF I where doing the model, and I'm not, I would use the columns in the database marked E1, E2, E3 to figure out magic path costs, because they would be more accurate. That would add some 20-30 equations to his model, however, and that would take time. Also, he needs to remove thematically prices units.

Finally, the ONLY way anyone will ever get an equation for the relative cost of very powerful units, is to somehow normalize the costs of the summonables. I can give you a few tips, Scott, if you'de like, but I'm not gonna teach you to use regression software (most people take a 3 hour college course to learn...).

I would say, that this is the best method currently available. Using it and the IW guidelines should give you some idea of how to price your units.

Re: Unit Cost Equation
 

The_Tauren13,

What method did you use to get to your equation?

Re: Unit Cost Equation
 

The one at the beggining of this thread? Well, I just quicklky slapped it together in the format (offensiveness*defensiveness)^(1/2)*other because if there were only 2 stats in the game, HP and damage, a very good cost formula would be (HP*damage)^(1/2).
I had hoped to mold it into something that could take a unit with just about any stats and give a reasonable cost for it by asking a series of simple questions: 'what attack value is worth twice 10 attack?', 'what defense value is worth twice 10 defense?', etc. and then modifying the equation as nescesarry.
However, Anime Girl was the only one who seemed interested in it, and then scott hijacked the thread to talk about commander costs again, so I just dropped it.