Re: A pirates life for me...
 

I noticed that the game includes a racial trait/technology called 'IS A CHEATER.' What is this and how does it work. In the techareas.txt file it said that it allowed scenario generation to take place. If so how do you do it. I set it as a racial trait and then tried to use it but nothing happened and the screen went black. SE4 still worked but I did not see how the tech would allow you do editing. I am greatly intereseted in making scenarios and would greatly appreciate any comments.

Also, i was wondering if you had any ideas about how to make drones work and how to make their ai work. I think that they could be a big addition to the SE4 game and P&N.

Finally, how do you effectivly play the pirates or the nomads. All the empires i come across are too strong for me. Any strategies?

Thanks so much, David

my email is chocolatefro@angelfire.com

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

skulky as far as i know there is no way to make drones or there AI work yet. MM is hopefully working on that. I'll leave the rest of your questions to SJ http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Sorry for the delay; I missed a few days, and the topic got pushed down http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif.

The is a cheater trait allowed the construction of "scenario resource ships", which had a hugely negative maintenance cost.

I used that to create my "Chess" scenario, using that hull as the king so when it is lost, the rest of your forces rapidly die from maintenance costs.

That was only used for that one situation, so the hull might not even be available.

As for playing a pirate or nomad race:
#1 priority: Get boarding parties!
#2 priority: Meet new races!
#3 priority: Capture their ships, or leech off them via a trade alliance.

The key to surviving as a pirate or nomad is to be a leech. Nomads can also make use of 99% less maintenance on their ships, but you must add the maintenance reducer component manually! Be aware that ships with a damaged maintenance reducer will cost full price, and should be repaired or destroyed immediately (since they cost 100x more now).

First build some exploration escorts with swashbucklers or boarding parties.
The key is to find another race before they develop shields, since then it is easy to capture technology and resources.
The first ships you capture should get you bigger hulls and weapons technology. You can then use that to defeat and capture larger ships, and shielded ships, and so on.
If you already have the tech, you can scrap the ships to fund your raiders, or retrofit them as new capture ships.

Tips:
- Explore and meet quickly: It is nearly impossible to capture ships with shields and self-destruct devices. You don't want to fall too far behind in technology.
- Make use of the "Budget" mount to save 20% on ship prices & maintenance.
- Stick with Ion engine III's for the early game: They are very fuel efficient, and have a low cost per movement point. You can always use numbers to overwhelm advanced tech, but solitary ships.
- Build outPosts. Even an escort can hold a pirate's spaceyard, use it to build cheap space stations in storms and nebulae. The base can then be used as a field repair/retrofit/scrap base, as well as providing supplies for ships when you fleet them with the base.
- Choose your battles: taking one ship at a time is a lot easier than attacking an entire fleet. If you capture an enemy ship, its friends will likely destroy it, leaving you with no profit.
- Troops are great! If you can take over a large mining world, you'll be rolling in money for years to come. Don't be afraid to sell out if the enemy fleets come http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.
- Capture colony ships as a priority. They provide population to boost your production, as well as new colonies.
- Be wary of your income. You get 1000 of each resource by default, but only if you aren't producing any of that resource yourself. Building your first SlaveLabour camp can crimp your budget, but with enough, you'll make profit. Be sure to save up lots of resources and have lots of facility slots ready before starting the project.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
- Be wary of your income. You get 1000 of each resource by default, but only if you aren't producing any of that resource yourself. Building your first SlaveLabour camp can crimp your budget, but with enough, you'll make profit. Be sure to save up lots of resources and have lots of facility slots ready before starting the project.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you lose the 1000 even if you don't have a spaceport in system (and therefore can't earn anything from the slave labor camps)?

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

As far as SE4 v1.35, having no spaceport meant you got zero.
I have used this to my advantage sometimes, giving me time to build enough slave labour camps to be profitable before giving up my 1000 "charity" resources.

If you still get 25% without a spaceport in newer Versions, then you're gonna just have to slog through it using stored resources.
Try building one in a non-spaceport system, and see what happens.

If you get the 25%, then start with spaceports. Emergency Build SLCs on all of your planets, especially those in Bi- or Tri-nary starsystems (cause they get 2-3x the resource output). When they all complete on the same turn, you will have been collecting the "charity" during the build turns, and should now be making at least 1000 each resource.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dumbluck:
Do you lose the 1000 even if you don't have a spaceport in system (and therefore can't earn anything from the slave labor camps)?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess that would make it even worse. Having no spaceport doesn't mean you lose all production in the system. You still get 25% without a sapceport.

Rollo

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
As far as SE4 v1.35, having no spaceport meant you got zero.
I have used this to my advantage sometimes, giving me time to build enough slave labour camps to be profitable before giving up my 1000 "charity" resources.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The exact reason I asked. I could say that "great minds think alike", except that I know I'm not a great mind, which kinda leaves you out in the cold too, unfortunately. Of coarse, I don't think a mediocre mind could have come up with this awesome mod....

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

LOL http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>How well does the AI handle defences that cancel the null-space ability of null-space weapons? Will it only use null-space "resistant" components when faceing an opponent using null-space weapons? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The AIs will not typically use the specialty defenses, however I have seen an AI put a 6-pack of BTG armor on its fighters once. Made them very tough to kill.

The BTG armor is not "armor" the way you normally think of it. The way it works is that the BTG is not armor, but a regular internal component.
When you add 50 of them to an LC, then perhaps 80% of the time, armor-skipping weapons will hit the BTG rather than critical components.
Given 200 BTG IIIs on a 50 component DN or BS, you get 7,000HP at roughly 80% absorption.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I wonder if SEIV's lack of "defense against every special damage" is because the AI currently can't handle it well. (I feel guilty about going around with nomal-shield ships and zapping all the nomal-shielded AI ships with PP weapons, and then zapping them all with something with a high raw damage as soon as the AI goes to P-shields.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, I've designed it that the defenses are not too powerful; They are probably best used in a RP situation, or if your enemy is loading up on one type of specialty weapon.

You'll still find the AIs defending themselves with only P-shields and firepower, but the phased shields do become available at Tech Level 2.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Or I suppose it might not be an issue if the null-space resistance is built-in to something that ship designers would include anyway, or if the resistance is part of a very cheap, small component....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The resistance comes in the form of Zero KT, 35HP, $400 chunks. And it is not 100% guaranteed on each hit.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Oh, what the heck. This is off topic, but as long as I'm here: How challenging is the AI in P&N? Does it handle all the (very interesting) additions well? I play regularly against only 1 human foe, but I've got, uh, lets see.... 46 races going, so that's quite a bit of AI adjusting if I want to us P&N.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>In general, the new components are not a large advantage. The AI will occasionally use some, but don't expect much difference in their strategies.
AFAIK, nobody has designed an AI for P&N, so they will use their original strategies.
I have tried to build the components around the AI, so that they do not have additional disadvantages.

The AI is probably slightly less challenging in P&N, assuming that you take the "Normal" trait.
Against humans, all is fair game, but against AIs, human players should probably choose "Pirate" of "Nomad".
Using one of the Title RaceTypes is how singleplayer should be played.

It is theoretically possible to win as a Pirate or Nomad, but not likely. You'll have your hands full trying to scrape together enough funds to support even 10 large warships, and you're guaranteed to be behind in tech.

Also, you can download my AIPatcher. A total of ~10 clicks per race, and they'll be playable in P&N.
Note: Be sure to use an engine factor of 45 or higher, otherwise the AIs will cause RCEs when they get Quantum engines and baseships.
Note 2: the patcher does not optimize the AIs. It just makes them so:
- They won't crash when being loaded.
- They will expand, and not act as a "one-planet-neutral"
- They will build ships with a reasonable number of engines.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (forum thread).
-&lt;Download the Latest Version of P&N&gt;- (just extract to your SE4 folder)
--&lt;Download my HomeComing scenario&gt;- (For P&N v2.3b)
--&lt;P&N V2 AI patch&gt;- (V2 only, for the AIs included in ZIPs from v2.0 to v2.3, prevents rare RCEs)
-&lt;Download P&N Classic&gt;- (The final release of P&N v1.x, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-&lt;Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7&gt;-
-&lt;Download SJs latest AI Patcher&gt;-
-&lt;Download my FTL propulsion map&gt;- (ships can travel FTL StarTrek/B5/StarWars style)
-&lt;Download my LAN helper&gt;- (Auto-searches for new turns on a filesharing-enabled LAN)
Visit My Homepage

Other Links:
-&lt;Play By Web&gt;-
-&lt;Schlock Mercenary&gt;- (great space-based webcartoon) -&lt;First Strip&gt;-
-&lt;8-bit Theater&gt;- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

&lt;SE4Code&gt;
MpN R*-A RM(L) RP+ TCP- Fq++ FR!++ P? A+/- Sf+ Nd- L $ M++++ Pw!+
&lt;/SE4Code&gt;

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 21 October 2001).]

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

suicide_junkie:

Thanks for all the info!

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Errr...

Sorry to be a bother, had an error message when using Version 2.3c. "File Not Found" was the gist of the message. Happens when attempting to go from set up screen (# players, galaxy type, etc.) to the actual game. Unfortunately the computer wasn't helpful enough to tell me which file(s) I was missing.

Anyone else have difficulties?

Jimbob

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Were you using extra AIs, or anything?

I use all default graphics (except for BattleMoons/MassiveBaseShip), and the datafiles load before your problem occured, so:
If it is an actual file missing, it's likely to be an AI file...

I will do everything I can to solve your problem, but I do have two exams and a couple projects this week, so I can't do much until the weekend http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif.

I'd suggest downloading the latest (v2.4) anyways.
There was a short period of time (a few hours) when I had a bad Version of P&Nv2.3c posted; If you donloaded it a few weeks ago, you may have gotten that.

------------------
The latest info on Pirates & Nomads (forum thread).
-&lt;Download the Latest Version of P&N&gt;- (just extract to your SE4 folder)
--&lt;Download my HomeComing scenario&gt;- (For P&N v2.3b)
--&lt;P&N V2 AI patch&gt;- (V2 only, for the AIs included in ZIPs from v2.0 to v2.3, prevents rare RCEs)
-&lt;Download P&N Classic&gt;- (The final release of P&N v1.x, just extract to your SE4 folder)
-&lt;Download compatible EMPs for P&N v1.2 through v1.7&gt;-
-&lt;Download SJs latest AI Patcher&gt;-
-&lt;Download my FTL propulsion map&gt;- (ships can travel FTL StarTrek/B5/StarWars style)
-&lt;Download my LAN helper&gt;- (Auto-searches for new turns on a filesharing-enabled LAN)
Visit My Homepage

Other Links:
-&lt;Play By Web&gt;-
-&lt;Schlock Mercenary&gt;- (great space-based webcartoon) -&lt;First Strip&gt;-
-&lt;8-bit Theater&gt;- (fun comic with the pixellated FF1 characters)

&lt;SE4Code&gt;
MpN R*-A RM(L) RP+ TCP- Fq++ FR!++ P? A+/- Sf+ Nd- L $ M++++ Pw!+
&lt;/SE4Code&gt;

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Suicide:

Yah, with my luck I probably managed to snag the bad Version of 2.3c.

It'll be some work for me to get v.2.4 cause I need to beg for CD write privelleges. I was hoping it was just one file missing or something. It's all good, I'll just wait till everyone upgrades their mods to v.1.49 and burn me a mega-mod CD.

Thx Jimi

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Suicide, when I click on your sig part 'Download latest Version of P&N', Realdownload starts, then stops with the Messages 'Action canceled' and 'File not found on remote host'. Has this already been pointed out, or is there somewhere else I'm supposed to download it from?

------------------
This is it. That moment they told us about in high school, where one day, algebra would save our lives.

'Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?'
Grand Moff Tarkin, just before the Death Star blew.

Brain fart, you win again!

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It'll be some work for me to get v.2.4 cause I need to beg for CD write privelleges. I was hoping it was just one file missing or something. It's all good, I'll just wait till everyone upgrades their mods to v.1.49 and burn me a mega-mod CD.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You don't use a harddrive? And how would you save games without writing to the CD?

Anyways, with the error:
- does it happen every time?
- are you using extra AIs?
- are you using uncommon game settings?

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Second release of P&N v2.4!

I added two lines to the settings.txt, as described in This thread.
You may wish to set the "Use Old Log Political Message Display" to false, if you haven't had any problems with it. I have it defaulted to True for compatibility reasons.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Suicide, when I click on your sig part 'Download latest Version of P&N', Realdownload starts, then stops with the Messages 'Action canceled' and 'File not found on remote host'. Has this already been pointed out, or is there somewhere else I'm supposed to download it from?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry, just two characters off in the filename... its fixed now http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

S-J,

Just looking over the mod files for P&N 2.4C to learn a little, and I noticed that your ship and fleet training facilities seem to LOSE effectiveness as you progress technologically. Fleet and Ship at first rank (roman numeral I) add +3%, but at 3rd rank (roman numeral III) only add +1%. The same thing happens with the Psychic training facilities.

Is there a reason for this?

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Fleet and Ship at first rank (roman numeral I) add +3%, but at 3rd rank (roman numeral III) only add +1%. The same thing happens with the Psychic training facilities.
Is there a reason for this?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yep! That's because the maximum training takes much more time.

You can spend 3 turns in basic training to get 9% (one more turn only gets you to 10%)
OR
You can spend 7 turns in intermediate training to get 14% (one more turn gets you only 15%)
OR
You can go for the advanced training, and take 2 years to get the maximum 20%

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

I thought I was gonna learn something.

You did some really clever things with the Buckytubes too. VERY cool.

Why did you decrease the repair capability of the standard shipyards?

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Mainly to encourage the use of repair bays, even near construction areas.

You now need both types of components for a major military base (SY to build and retrofit, repair bays to fix stuff)

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Well, I am getting the biggest kick out of both playing it, and figuring out how it works.

There is alot of thought and work in there. And you've changed everything just enough to throw off any "premade" battle plans from the stock game. The subtle changes in component costs alone threw me out of my game at first...

Thanks!

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Thanks, CS!

1.49 Patch News:
When you come to the point where you are designing a battlemoon, you may be concerned by the fact that there appears to be no Master Computer ability to prevent Virus/Subverter instant captures.

Fear not! The MC ability partly works: you must still install C&C components (B/CQ/LS, or MC), but the hull's built-in ability still prevents Psy-Capture, even if you don't have a component-based MC.

------------------

I was building a BM lately, and I noticed the fact that a CoreMount Planetary Napalm is the size of an entire BattleShip (800KT), and does 45K damage http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Just imagine a Battleship-sized bomb http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon10.gif!

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Name := D.U. AutoCannon I
Description := Medium range cannon which rapidly fires small depleted uranium shells.
Pic Num := 155
Tonnage Space Taken := 5
Tonnage Structure := 5
Cost Minerals := 50
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 5
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Sat\WeapPlat
Supply Amount Used := 2
Restrictions := None
General Group := Weapons
Family := 3027
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Projectile Weapons
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Star - Unstable
Ability 1 Descr := +5% accuracy
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := Direct Fire
Weapon Target := Ships\Planets\Ftr\Sat
Weapon Damage At Rng := 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Weapon Damage Type := Normal
Weapon Reload Rate := 1
Weapon Display Type := Torp
Weapon Display := 22
Weapon Modifier := 5
Weapon Sound := cannon.wav
Weapon Family := 125
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why does this weapon have the unstable star abilitiy?

------------------
It's not whether you win or lose that counts: it's how much pain you inflict along the way.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

It's used for the description of the + to hit. since it doesn't actually DO anything, it's well-suited to making descriptions.

Phoenix-D

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Random Ideas:

--fighters that can warp, would have other restrictions and the design itself would cost an extreme amount, I have tried this but can't figure out how to make them warp, it isn't an ability but they say that fighters can warp

--mobile bases, i have a design using a satalite as a base

--Detection Station-- level 5 sensor detection, on a small base so it is easy to kill but will be expensive anyway, built in ability, i also have a design on this.

-- a super small unit that has level 4 cloak so only one of the special bases can see it, woul dbe used on deep penetration to drop plauge bombs etc., also i have a design

--A way to do more cool intel projects that would hurt enemy in different ways

--special mines warheads that target only certain things like engines, i know u have tried this before (in ULtimate maybe) but who cares if hte Ai can't use them.

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* SPECIAL IDEA

MM would have to hardcode something in or have an editor that would allow AI editing, to create the actual strategies that hte computer uses.

Also, a full blown scenario editor woudl be nice, so far SuicideJunkie with the Homecoming mod is the only scenario i have seen and i still don't know how he makes it work

------------------
Skulky: a lurking manner

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

1) Got it.
In order to warp, they must be tiny ships, can't be targetted by PD, can't be carried... that's an ES http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

2) Got it.
See BattleMoons http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

3) I thought I had it http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif
Rather than increase sensor power, I'd make mines scale up in cloak strength as tech proceeds.

4) Need it.
An expensive, weak, invisible ship. Forces the enemy to keep its planets defended. Minefields could deter them though...

5) Hardcode.
Need more intel modding options.

6) Got it.
Tachyon/Ion/NullSpace mines. See P&N http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

-----------

The HomeComing Scenario was a game I played right from turn 1 until I got the plasma instability message.
Playing as a neutral was fun, and now you've got to deal with the consequences http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
For the scenario Messages, I just reverse engineered the Tutorial for.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Hi S_J,

Just downnloaded the file attached to your post of the 25th, in order to install P&N 2.4

I unzipped the archive straight into my SEIV folder and now I have the SuicideJunkie'sMods folder with folders in it for 2.3b and 2.3c - no 2.4. Oh, and Matryx's mod launcher doesn't seem to read it all correctly, although I thought he had altered it so that it would...

------------------
SE4 Code:
L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M&gt;M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G-
/SE4 Code
Go to my meagre SEIV pages to generate your own code.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

From what I heard, I got the impression he had an option to specify the exact directory of a mod.

Lemme D/L it and see...

EDIT:
Ah, yes. The documentation says:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Also, you can now add mods in other directories (i.e. subdirectories)
There are 2 ways of doing this.
1. Click the Add Mod button in the top left corner of the Mod Selector.
The program will prompt you for a directory, and when you click Add it will update itself, and re-launch to show the new mod.
If it doesn’t show up, make sure the Mod Directory is correct!

or

2. Edit a file called ‘extmods.txt’ and place the paths directly in there. One per line

Note, in both cases, the mod must be in a directory relative to SE4
i.e. Pictures/Combat will try to add the se4\pictures\combat directory as a mod.

I have not tested paths outside of SE4 though you should be able to reference them with ‘..\..\mods’ etc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 28 October 2001).]

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Any news on if this is an actual bug?
does it work.
If not please mail me -&gt;
matryx@matryx.org.uk
I dont have much time to check these Boards anymore but I do have a surprise in store soon (read 2 weeks) http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif
(think 3d screensaver style)

------------------
The Unofficial Space Empires 4 Mod Utility V2.0
------------------
Download as a .ZIP &lt;HERE&gt;
Download as a .RAR &lt;HERE&gt;
Download as a .ACE &lt;HERE&gt;
Check a Screenshot of it&lt;HERE&gt;

Check an Alpha Shot of my Mod Editor (Unreleased) &lt;HERE&gt;

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

In the Path.txt file you have to type SuicideJunkie'sMods\P&N2.3c or something like that. I don't use it that much, does the mod launcher support subdirectories?

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

See my post below, quoted right from the mod picker's documentation.

The docs say theres a text file to edit, where you can add an arbitrary modpath to the modpicker.
Theres also an option "add mod" to add arbitrary directory modpaths from within the Mod picker.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

I just noticed something about organic armor, it seems about worthless. Using hardened mini shield generators you get a slightly decreased slightly smaller tonnage structure and a greatly increased defense from shields with a slightly smaller regen. This makes Organic armor about useless. I could be wrong about this though.

[This message has been edited by ZeroAdunn (edited 08 November 2001).]

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

"special mines warheads that target only certain things like engines, i know u have tried this before (in ULtimate maybe) but who cares if hte Ai can't use them"

Given enough fiddling, the AI CAN use special-type warheads. The problem would be getting them to use more than one type at once- i.e. explosion OR ion OR distruptor OR AP would be easy- explosive AND ion would be hard.

Phoenix-D

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

can you create another design type so that there are multiple kinds of mines

(like attack ships and defense ships) that way they would use different kinds of mines for different things?

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I just noticed something about organic armor, it seems about worthless. Using hardened mini shield generators you get a slightly decreased slightly smaller tonnage structure and a greatly increased defense from shields with a slightly smaller regen. This makes Organic armor about useless. I could be wrong about this though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The key thing that you've forgotten is that the Organic Armor stores up hitpoints.

By the time your ships are in range, your armor has built up 10 rounds of regen.
In this case, that is enough to repair all your armor once over.

So, take the organic armor hitpoints and double them, then compare it to the HMSGs http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

For warp-point combat, the OA will be at a disadvantage, but it is great at siege warfare, where you could spend 15+ turns getting into range, and have a ton of regen stored.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Oh!

That's how organic armor works. I've always wondered about it's value. Never bothered to use it.

-Jimbob

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Organic armor stores up hitpoints? Had no idea.

It's to bad organic armor can't repair other pieces of armor anymore, then it would make it one bad assed component.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Wha?
Organic armor will repair other organic armor components, but why would it ever repair regular sheet metal armor?

If you wanted to mod it to do so, all you'd have to do is give the regular armor 0 or 1 organic regen ability.

In P&N, the best armor is either BioCrystal, or PlasmaProjection (Premium mount). Premium mount PPA gives you the best HP/KT, while Biocrystal gives you a healing crystalline effect.
BCA is nearly immune to small weapons fire, while suffering against Massive damage attacks. PPA has the sheer hitpoints to withstand the Massive attacks, but gets worn down from the small blows.

P&N organic armor will provide anywhere from 5 to 20 HP/KT, depending on the rate at which your ship takes damage.

Unmodded SE4 OA provides upto 35 HP/KT!!! Compare that to 5 HP/KT for the best unmodded armor, and 8HP/Kt for the best unmodded shields.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
Wha?
Organic armor will repair other organic armor components, but why would it ever repair regular sheet metal armor?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A while back there was a bug where the regenerate armor ability would regenerate armor even if it didn't have the regen ability, so long as there was a component that had it. It was a bug, it got fixed.

It seems with all these new mods to P&N the organic armor just isn't as usefull as it used to be, and you spend a heck of a lot of points to get it. (yes I know you also get the weapons, but I am a big organic armor fan in case you haven't noticed.)

[This message has been edited by ZeroAdunn (edited 09 November 2001).]

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

I reduced the regen rate because it was just insanely high.
By the time an OA ship entered combat, it could rebuild its armor three times over. That rises higher while you fight.

Essentially, you had to destroy every Last piece of armor in one combat turn in order to get through.

In P&N now, OA is supported by shields and normal armor, since they give you time to build up some regen.

If in doubt, try putting BioCrystal armor on your ships http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

And don't forget OA is dirt cheap (compare with shields and armor by $/HP), and costs all organics, resulting in very short build times.

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[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 11 November 2001).]

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Suicide,

Hey, ummm...
I've been busy as a beaver lately, finally finding out how to mod this game. I figure I've got some niffty stuff, but entirely for one new racial trait (gravity techs). My stuff isn't enough to call a Mod... but I'd love to give it away to someone with a more extensive mod.

Would you be interested in looking at what I've got? It's currently balanced for Ultimate, but HA's dropped off the face of the earth. I'm sure I could rebalance for Pirates.

-jimbob

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

I'd be happy to check it out.
One thing that I will probably do is adjust the descriptions to fit into my universe.

Now, I am swamped with homework this week, so I won't be able to get back to you until this weekend. So take your time.

PS: This sounds like one of the tech tree type traits. Therefore, it will need five crossover techs, one for each of the original racial tech trees.
General suggestions & ideas are sufficient for this; if nothing else, I can make "compressed matter" components ("Delicate balancing of gravitational pressure on a component allows it to be reduced in size").


PS: I would have responded about 12 hours earlier, but the forums were down (access denied error message when writing to the thread)

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jimbob:
Suicide,


Would you be interested in looking at what I've got? It's currently balanced for Ultimate, but HA's dropped off the face of the earth. I'm sure I could rebalance for Pirates.

-jimbob<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


He's back it seems, both www.spaceempires.org and www.hyperionbase.com are back Online.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Hi,

Well, it's good that you're patient, because life just got a little too busy lately. I don't have internet at home, so I'll bring the files in to work by Wed. and post them here. Most of the components work well, though I didn't make any original art. It seemed to me that there were some unused pictures in the original 'picture' folders.. so I just messed about with them.

-jimbob

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Most of the components work well, though I didn't make any original art. It seemed to me that there were some unused pictures in the original 'picture' folders.. so I just messed about with them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's been my method with P&N, too. Most of my components that have similar functions, just use the same picture, but there are a ton of little variants, especially with the armor and shield generator pictures. I find it amazing that I got such great "living ships" component pictures, all original SE4.

Have you got any ideas for the crossover techs?

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Gravity + Crystalline= ultra-dense crystal tech tree: Slightly more powerful Versions of standard crystal techs. Extremely expensive to research and build.

Gravity + Psychic= Telekinetic gravity well: Really nasty weapon, 100% accuracy, skips shields and armour. Short range, long reload.

Gravity + Psychic + Temporal = Temporal Psychic Gravitic sensors. You can't hide.

Gravity + Organic = MegaFlora Farming. Gigantic plants which could not exist without gravity manipulation are engineered and harvested for organic resources.

Gravity + Organic = High Gravity Infantry. Soldiers engineered to exist in super-high gravity conditions exhibit extraordinary strength in normal gravity.

Gravity + Organic + Religious = High Gravity BioFanatics: Fanatic Version of above. Phear.

Gravity + Big Thinkers: Ultra-sized Weapons Platforms: Gravity Manipulation allows construction of gigantic structures which otherwise could not support their own weight. This technology can be traded to/ stolen by other gravity races.

------------------
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Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Crossover techs needed:
Gravity
+Crystalline: Y
+Psychic: ?
+Temporal: N
+Organic: Y(2)
+Religious: ?

I don't want to do 3-ways until I have a crossover for all the 3-ways out there.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Gravity + Organic + Religious = High Gravity BioFanatics<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If we drop the organic requirement, we get High-G Fanatics. How they'd relate to BioFanatics, I'm not sure. Maybe since they have great Grav control, give them built in shields (no armor) and a shield-skipping troop weapon.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Gravity + Psychic= Telekinetic gravity well:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>How would that work in a description sense?
A slightly modified Version: TK GravLance. Skips shields, and maybe armor too. Creates localized spikes of gravitational force, collapsing small bits of the ship's hull. Small component, for lots of moderate-weak hits.
Totally different: a deflector shield. Psychics predict incoming weapons fire, and direct a grav pulse in that direction to deflect it. A shield generator with crytalline ability.

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Hey,

Well I didn't do any work on the cross-over techs yet. Here's what I've done so far. I could still tweek the art for the black hole generators, etc.

I haven't done the ground-combat troops yet, but I plan to have some anti-grav booster packs or hovercraft or something. I'm hoping to make them space worthy so that they can go from planet to planet on their own... but is it possible?

I like the ideas in the Last few Posts, so I'll try to include as much as possible.

Here are some of the files. You will need to cut and paste to the correct files to run them.

-jimbob

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Some good, unique ideas there. Have you tested those black hole weapons yet? I seem to recall the first "0" damage rating defining the max range the weapon will fire at.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I haven't done the ground-combat troops yet, but I plan to have some anti-grav booster packs or hovercraft or something. I'm hoping to make them space worthy so that they can go from planet to planet on their own... but is it possible?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nope its either a troop or a fighter, not both http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

Looking at those Space yard facilities, I was thinking that rather than doing an anti-grav idea to get the same effect as a temporal space yard, why not add gravity to orbital stations, so they're just as effective as planet based ones!
Different, but good (if not better). It also allows you to combine temporal and grav to get temporal space yards on bases.
...
Which fills in that crossover gap, too!

Re: A pirates life for me...
 

Black hole generators,
Yeah, they do work... at least when they're put on ships (Though I made them for Weaponplatforms, I tested them on ships because nobody would come after my planets).

Space Yards,
I must admit that I was disappointed to be beaten to the punch by the temporal space yards. Having never tried the temporal racial trait out, I initially thought I had an original idea! Oh well... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
I kinda like the space elevator thing, but ultimately (no pun intended) it will be in your mod. The key factor to me was the _repair_ capacity of the station (bringing up whole components from the ground) and the space port/resupply station aspects. The build rate was an afterthought really. How about the space elevator giving normal build rate + boosted repair/resupply/space port, and the cross over facility giving all of that plus the higher build rate of the temporal space yard. Of course the resource cost to build the space elevator facility should come down a great deal.

Orbital Space Yards
That would be good, except that the space stations etc. can be built in non-planet locations. I envisioned lifting components fabricated on the planet into space with relative ease and speed. Improved Space Yards in deep space seems counter-intuitive.

my $.028 (Cdn funds)
-jimbob