Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

"mapmove: bad unr" sounds like it's an issue with some unit moving more spaces than is allowed or something like that. I'll double check my turn later tonight to see if I notice anything amiss.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Here are edi's comments from today:
Patched to 3.20? I presume the answer is yes.
What mods are enabled?
Do you have scouts or otehr stealth troops moving more than one province per turn while sneaking? Are any of them flying?

Make a backup save of the game and try fiddling around with the movement orders of sneaking and hiding units you have and then rehost. When it goes away (and it should), make note of what you did. It might be helpful in conjunction with the log.

I experienced the same problem with a v3.19 game during the beta test and it was caused by a black harpy moving three provinces one turn and hiding the next. When I made the harpy move again, the turn hosted fine. At the time I was running CBM Pretenders 1.3, BI 2.1 and Worthy Heroes 1.8.

This may be related to something with a mod going wrong during hosting or something to do with move order validation, but I don't know for certain.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Fungal,

The problem is in your turn file. I processed the game absent one player at a time game ran fine until I processed yours.

Edi would like you to try the stealth/move thingie, and document what you do, to try to fix a bug. This is going to suck because the loop back cycle - you change a few things, I run it.. you change a few things ... bleh.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Ok, I'll check and see if it's anything obvious first.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

I don't see anything. I reissued the order commands for all my sneaking units. That should at least narrow it down or rule that out.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

still crashes.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

I haven't been able to connect to upload the changed turn yet.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

sorry.. downed it to do the test

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

ok submitted it now

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Works now, Lets rock:D

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Sorry Bwa, love the enthusiasm .. but not factual.
fungal - it is still crashing - and I saw a brief flash that seemed to say flying units.

Following in line with what edy said ---.. flying and stealthy?

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

I've change some of the moves for my flyers. Perhaps that will do something. I don't have any stealthy fliers moving this turn I think.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Well it didn't have any message about flyers.
Crashed right after horrors, then movement.

Can you speak with edi directly?

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Sent him a PM. I've also changed up the orders a bit so that none of my units are set to "hide" anymore. Let me know if that fixes it.

The only other thing I can think of after that is to try changing it so that none of the sneaking guys move more than one space.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

All right, I'm posting here so this is visible to everyone. If I'm reading the log right, the problem happens when someone or something is moving from province 132 (Jagged Climb) to province 146 (Vale of Swords). I don't know who's holding it, but whoever it is can either post here or send me a PM and list everything that does move from there or is sitting on its backside. Not interested in unit names, only unit numbers and what quantity of each unit ID is there (both commanders AND regular units!). Make special note if there are any heroes there, because they are modded and if it's a mod causing the problem, this could help narrow it down.

Chris, if you haven't already, send the game files (the whole lot, fatherland and all turn files) to Johan to the Illwinter info address. I'm sending the log to him. He can then examine it. The corrupt turn file is especially important. This bug has never appeared before version 3.18 to my knowledge, so it may well be related to the move order validation fixes mentioned on the progress page.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

The only thing I have related to those two provinces is a scout in 146.... he's moving to a different place though. I can try changing where he's going it if no one else has units moving from 132 to 146

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

I asked Johan about the log thing by email. His response:

So get cracking on getting the game files to Illwinter if you want this solved. Neither he nor I can do anything else unless that happens. And they need to be a set of files that actually causes the crash.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Thanks edi - I just got your message.
I'm at work its 10 pm. I will try to send the game files tonight.

The only thing I know, is that if I delete fungals turn and try to process - it succeeds. If I include it it fails.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Just make sure you explain things clearly and in enough detail there so that he can see what happens and doesn't need to do unnecessary work. Include the WH mod file as well.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Doh, at 4 am I did none of those things. I'll resend an explanation, and the WH mod. But seeing what happens is easy. Try to host and it crashes.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Chris, did you try re-running it after the last set of changes I did? Also it looks like you have an army in the province Edi mentioned (132). Are any of those units going to 146?

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Sorry I forgot to update you fungal.
Yes I tried to run it after your last set of changes. No luck.
I also tried again stopping all units moving from 132 to 146. No luck.

There isn't even a particularly interesting unit in 132. Commander and 3 priests. The commander has gotten 6 afflictions from being diseased - so his troops exceed his leadership
but that often happens with priests etc for random events.

I guess I can try dumpting the units into the province.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

It still seems like it would have to be something of mine if you can remove my turn and it works. I don't have anything in 132 though.

One thing I did the previous turn was to move a bunch some units that only had mapmove 1 down two spaces with the flying ship. They're seiging this turn. Could that have something to do with it? As far as I know that's a valid move, but I've never used that item before.

I've had commanders in MP games before with more units under them than their leadership will normally allow and haven't seen any issues like this before. So I think it's unlikely that will fix it either.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

The flying ship could very well be it. The move order validation fixes in the last patch prevent force marching (using a commander with move & patrol orders to move units farther than their stratmove would allow). It is conceivable that if it was not accounted for, it could cause problems. It may be part of the reason, but it's not the whole reason, as when I had the bug, it happened around turn 6 or 7. No flying ship then.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

I've changed it so that everything at the place where the flying ship is moving somewhere else. It also occurs to me that I had some skratti there that moved in wolf form last turn (so they could move through a forest with the forest survival bonus) and then changed shape for storming a castle this turn, so that may be it too.

Let me know if that works. If possible I'd rather not have my guys move away, but it's easier to rule it out if I move everything.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

I will rerun the turn this evening and let all knwo.

Sorry guys .. been working 20 hours a day the last 3 days..

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

No, that did not fix it.
Edi, any news from johan?

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Sounds like this turn is just the mother of all bug-checks for this movement resolution fix. Got stealthy units, a flying ship, commanders with too many units under them, commanders moving in altered shapes. Did I miss anything? Were there monkeys involved? :p

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

No. He is a quiet sort of fellow, not given to idle chit-chat, and this is something that may well take time. So we can only wait. I expect mention of the fix will appear on the progress page before it appears anywhere else (including my inbox).

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

The 3.2 patch has a problem with the the flying boat. It worked fine with the previous patch but I just tried to use it sp and its broken. Hope this helps...:D

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

I put the ship on a a different commander and I'm having him move just 1 space to a different place. Perhaps that will do it.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

I've been using the Flying Ship in another game to ferry summons around since the patch and had no problems so far with it.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

If the ship is on a stealthy commander, perhaps thats the problem.

Do you guys just want to back this up 2 turns and try again?

Chris

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Why is this not in the bug discussion thread?! If there is new data like this, it needs to be posted where it is guaranteed to be seen or it will be overlooked.

If it has something to do with stealth flyers, or a specific item, you cannot count on me reading any threads in the MP forum unless I'm participating in a particular game. I'll see what Johan thinks of this.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Sorry edi, My bad, Do you want me to post this on the bug thread?:D

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Due to the kind efforts of Johan, I expect the game will be underway shortly. I can't say anything more than that.

Please review your positions, brush out the cobwebs. I will be sending a notify via blat when the game resumes.

Good Luck!

Game Has hosted
 

Let the Games begin! Or game

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Excellent, I had just about given up on this. Just curious, any idea what the problem was? Mainly so I can avoid doing it again, if it was something I did.

Now if I could only remember what sinister plans I had in store for my enemies in this one ;)

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

No idea. I believe comment will be withheld for awhile.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Hey guys:

Just to let you all know:

We have hit another bug in Dominions, that is hard coded, and there isn't anything we can do about it (although HOW we hit that limit is a good question.

There is a limit of 150K units and 9k commanders. New commanders summoned/recruited etc will probably *not* have the magic paths to which they would normally be entitled.

Now, WHO has the 9000 leaders is beyond me.
But just wanted to tell everyone so they would understand theres a good chance their spectral mages, tartarians, troll kings etc... will not work.

And .. is there anything we want to do about it as players?

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

I really don't see how it's possible for there to be that many. I'd guess my own total might be in the hundreds. 9k is a massive amount. For example, the big game had 65 players on a huge map (~900 provinces) they're on turn 63 and still going. I'm assuming they haven't hit the limit.

We're only on turn 77 on a much smaller one (~270) with only 9 players/AI still left. Recruiting a commander from EVERY province would even take 30 turns before that limit was reached, assuming none were ever killed.

Perhaps some of the players that are now AI, but haven't yet been finished off have a ton of scouts everywhere or something? Maybe once one of them is finished off it will be safe to summon again?

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

To be honest, I'm struggling to find a good reason not to suggest awarding this game to Marignon with a "well played" card attached. Although not sure if this appears somewhat ungrateful to the time spent, and the fine efforts of, Chrispedersen, Edi, Johan, KO, all those at Illwinter, and those unmentioned here, who did us players a great favour in getting the game running again :)

But my take on the game as is stands though is that Marignon+Agartha have an alliance of some sorts, which is fine, but even if the remaining nations teamed up against them, I'm very doubtful of any success in the end. Agartha has had the Nexus up for absolutely ages now (wonder if it's actually a Dom MP record?) and I can't see how it can ever be downed. Even if it was somehow dispelled, I'm pretty sure JM is a good enough player to have a stash of Astral gems waiting in reserve to put it straight back up again. And add infinitum for all other attempts to take it down. And if this game comes down to a gem attrition war, either via global casting or wish/summons casting, then Marignon+Agartha will win hands down due to the "Wishing for Gems + Nexus" tactic.

I'm happy to keep playing if there is still likely to be some mystery or surprises left in this game, or if Agartha and Marignon are likely to turn on each other at any point. But if it's just going to be a matter of Marignon+Agartha allied until nobody is left, and then claiming a valid joint/aided victory or something, then I personally would prefer not to spend perhaps 50+hrs over 30+ turns to reach a result that is looking obvious and unstoppable at the moment.

I don't mind spending my freetime on this game, and I will always fight until the last in my games if I know it might have an effect on the overall outcome. But pointlessly continuing a game where the winner is already very obvious is something else again. As that I would consider a waste of time.

Please let me know what you all think of awarding Marignon or Marignon/Agartha some sort of victory at this point. Or if not, tell me what realistic hope anyone else has of winning that I'm missing.

As to what we do about the unit/commander limit. Don't know to be honest. I'd struggle to believe there are 9k of commanders on the map though.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Yeah thats the thing that mistifies me.. I have maybe 700 commanders I guess. Yet even if everyone had the same number...
that still doesn't get us to 9000.

As for the efforts of edi, johan etc: - it did pay off in discovering a bug. And my thanks to them.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

I'm fine with calling it quits. I have a few tricks left, but it's unlikely I can make a difference at this point. The nexus plus their alliance decided the game long ago.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

To be honest, if we called the game now, I'd feel a little disappointed. :p

I've done all of my fighting all game underwater. It's depressing and annoying really. Agartha is somewhat amphibious, but really, underwater battles are just not very exciting. So, I've got some neat toys ready to roll, that only work above the surface, and that I haven't had the chance to subject a human to. :angel

Of course, I'd never adamantly argue against an ending that were somehow in my favor. ;) Not just because I like that outcome, but I'm not going to be the "NO, you have to let me stomp you into the ground!" guy. If people surrender, they surrender, that's life.

I do think that there's a lot that is still up in the air in this game, though the Marign-garthan alliance is rather powerful. I honestly think more people would have more fight left in them, if it weren't for the Burden of Time and Armageddon. My income seems to be down about 40% or so from what it would have been, and that makes recruitment and upkeep a painful exercise. I don't know how I would feel about all that, if I didn't have all these gems. :o

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Unlike Jim,

I'd like to call the game, either with a victory or a shared victory. Even more than he has, I've been fighting underwater, and I have to concur.. that is *REALLY* no fun - first with oceania, and then with ryallah. I have to guess I'd be at LEAST twice as effective fighting above water. None of Marignon's fire spells work underwater, really.

However, I will of course do what the majority want.

The only thing that is a concern to me is that with this summoning bug, I don't see how going forward isn't irreparably damaged - aka buying or recruiting units will bear no relationship to what you actually bought... More or less, positions are mostly fixed: Most of the Elemental royalty are out, and a lot of the unique summons.
Seems like an * regardless of how we decide it.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Yeah sounds like enough people aren't too excited about continuing this. I say congrats to chris/jim on the win.

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

I must have summoned too many tartarians, just kidding, I agree to the ending of the game. But first let me thank you all for a fun game. And thanks to the fine people who fixed this game. Good luck in future games, I learned alot, and I don't consider myself a noobe anymore.:D

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Just curious..... how many pearls did you have by the end, Jim? I'm guessing it's near a thousand

Re: Glory (MA game)- game is live
 

Thanks to all that played. I really enjoyed the game - and appreciate all the efforts people made to be timely.

Friends, all..