Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Upload ye Pretenders!
 

I have been awaiting a response from Llamabeast to my PM's. I don't know how long it will be before I get a response. I suspect one of two things happened:

1. Some issue related to the recent problems with Llamaserver

2. Llamaserver does not know how to properly interface with the game settings to set AI players correctly when they are setup via .map file commands.

I've tested the .map file on my computer and no problems, as long as I manually set the 4 AI's specified in the .map file in the game setup screen. If I don't the game won't start and crashes with a "nagok gik fel" error saying it cannot find the AI's.

Unless DrP, or another vet knows more about this issue and until I hear something back from Llamabeast, I am probably going to try re-creating the game again setting max players to 20 (an extra 4 to account for the AI) and auto-start turned off. I'll direct players to send copies of their pretenders to my e-mail as well so that I can pass them on to Gandalf for hosting on his server if need be.

Comments, suggestions? Before I begin.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Upload ye Pretenders!
 

Not to worry Grudge, your fearless captain is here.
I can resubmit your pretender.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Upload ye Pretenders!
 

The way llamaserver is set up is geared toward human MP games (there's no way to set AI player options), and there have been so few games like ours that I wasn't aware Llamabeast may need to actually set up our game for us (no precedents I could find). I was assuming the .map file would pass the necessary variables to the game through some arcane magic only the creator of the llamaserver understands.

Assuming, this is not a problem related to the recent issues on Llamaserver, we could use 20 pretenders (have Gandalf design the AI Gods), submit them, and then turn them AI, but that might lose alot of the extra stuff Gandalf has put into the .map file, and would lose a turn of AI actions.

I will wait till tommorow to hear from Llamabeast (I know our game is on the server somewhere, probably crashed) to see if he can set up the game so that the AI specifications in the .map file are correctly passed to the server. If I don't hear something by then, we probably need to host via Gandalf. It is a mystery to me as to how the llamaserver actually interacts with the game setup screen you normally see.

I hope everyone understands that I anticipated this might happen and I want to reassure all players that we will start as soon as possible, on one server or another.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Upload ye Pretenders!
 

The way the LLama server runs has its pros and cons. Since its only pbem games he can support a game-creation page. Since my server runs each game continually I cant afford to open those flood doors altho I did mess with it abit.

And the AI glitch is actually a "broken" thing in the game itself. Part of the "scenario" thing that isnt really working in Dom3. AI's added to the map (scenario) SHOULD automatically see the AIs and include them as players IMHO. That is how the scenario tag worked in Dom2.

The workaround is that you have to add command-line switches putting in the AIs. LLama might be willing to hand-massage that but he is pretty involved with the move and all.

Doing the AIs as players then flipping to ai is an option but it puts them into the games cheat-detection limits. They would be better than randomly created ones, but not as good as offline designed ones.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Upload ye Pretenders!
 

well, I have lots of machines lying around, and a static ip address. If you can do the setup gandalf I can do some of the other grunt work, like burning ubunto whatever on it.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Upload ye Pretenders!
 

the community can always use another server
http://any1can.blogspot.com/

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Upload ye Pretenders!
 

Well, I've received no response from Llamabeast regarding our lost game. In the interests of moving things along, we will therefore make use of Gandalf's server.

Please send your pretender files to my e-mail: septimius.severus211@yahoo.com

Putting "Noobs & Vets" or anything like that somewhere in the e-mail will be helpful so I don't delete them by accident.

Once I receive all files, I will forward them and our game files to Gandalf, and any other needed info, so he can set the game up.

We can then either play via e-mail or via direct connect or perhaps even a combination of both. Direct connect saves alot of time in sending and recieving e-mails back and forth. As long as I can save my turn and don't have to do everything in one sitting, it is a fine option. But this will be up to you guys. Gandalf can elaborate more on our play options.

Send me those pretenders ASAP.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

oh god. i can see things really fubar'd while i was gone. i'll send my god to sept tomorrow if i can.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

ok, I'm quitting this game. Its been going for a month and a half and is going nowhere.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

It should be starting very soon - if it weren't for the server issues it would have been going already. If you stick it out just a little longer things should get rolling.

of course, we won't hold it against you if you do leave.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

Ghoul, we shall be starting very shortly. I urge you to keep your spot. No sense jumping ship now. If you really want out though, contact your captain ASAP so he can arrange an alternate. None of us were aware of the issues with Llamaserver and AI map commands. Our game is sufficiently unique that no one else has tried it at least via Llamaserver.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

8 Pretenders received so far:

Neifelheim
Kailasa
Yomi
Tir'na nog
Helheim
T'ien Chi'
Arco
Mictlan

7 more to go.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

By the way, if we're playing on gandalf's server I think generally you want to password protect your pretender for that?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

I am not sure, depends on whether we are doing direct connect or PBEM I suppose. Gandalf can set up the game as PBEM instead of direct connect if need be. You guys have been through enough, so I don't want anyone to feel like they need to redo their pretenders just to password protect them.

If people have sent me pretenders without passwords and we learn that it is needed via direct connect on Ganfalf's server, and he can't get around it someway, we will simply go the PBEM or combo route. If you have already password protected your pretender, a master password should deal with any issues relating to accessing your turn.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

Generally, any time you create a pretender in the menu tool its a good idea to uniquely password it. Any decision not to involves a certain level of trust.

The game can be setup for direct, or pbem, or both (which I recommend). Also simple notifications of the turn hosting by email, or text-message to cell phone, or twitter post, etc etc.
http://www.dom3minions.com/Hosting_Features.txt

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

Well many people dont even on my server altho Ive never had a complaint that it was abused. And I wouldnt say that pbem games mean you dont need to password it. But its up to each person.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

Oops, deleted my previous message.

So, basically, we can go either Direct Connect only (there's a chance people can look at your turn if you don't PW protect it, not that anyone would), Combo (ditto), or PBEM only which is slightly more secure in that turns will only be available via e-mails sent out to specific e-mail addresses. Combo sounds more flexible to me and probably means faster turn submissions. If people prefer PBEM only, that is doable as well.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

Correct.

Gandalf Parker
--
"That which security shall do, the search for easy management shall undo."

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

There you have it everyone. If anyone has sent me an unprotected pretender and you do not wish to redo it or resend it just to put a password in we will go PBEM only (it is only fair since people were expecting to host via Llamaserver). I want everyone to feel secure and to make this as easy as possible. Post here or PM me if that is the case. Otherwise we go combo.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

I will be home in 5 hours we ended up taking 5th in the uS National Tourney.....we (make that read I), stunk today.I will trust in Chris to get my pretender in and protected ot whatever.Will be up and running tomorrow morning.:up:

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

well congrats and condolences on fifth.

I would rather just got PBEM - this is how team Noobheim is setup, and I'd like to continue that. Lack of passwords makes it easier to look at each others turns.

Also, SS - you should have Sauromatia as well, as I know I sent it to you, along with the other two.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

I would very much prefer PBEM, with turn deadline reminders.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

The mod that is attached to the first message references a tga image that does not seem to be included. It might not cause a problem but Im not sure.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

Very well, PBEM only it shall be. With turn deadline reminders. If you want to pw protect any pretenders that is fine, if not that is fine also. Doesn't matter much with PBEM.

Gandalf, nah that missing .tga is just the graphic image that shows up next to mod name in the game preferences section. I didn't include it in the archive to simplify things (same reason I didn't put in the other 2 variants), but it makes absolutely no difference and doesn't affect game play in any way. I've enabled and played with the mod no problems. But I think I'll go ahead and include it, for those people who want the extra aesthethic touch. Thanks for reminding me.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

I've got 10 pretenders so far:

Arco
Helheim
Kailasa
Lanka
Mictlan
Neifelheim
T'ien Chi'
Tir na nog
Ulm
Vanheim

5 more to go.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

And we send them directly to Sev via his e-mail, on the old forum site which is working again.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

Well, ghoul31 *did* check in, so I feel a bit of a tool to punt him, but he's not here so he's not here. So: I active illuminated one as his alternate. Zapang! It is done.

Illuminated One: you can have Caelum or Hinnom, your choice. I think pyg21 would slightly-prefer Hinnom, although he has some practice with Caelum. Post your desired pretender design for your desired nation on the team forum.

I'll keep people uptodate here in the main thread so that they know I'm not dead - although I'm pretty busy this week :(

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

In a last-ditch attempt to give my team a better chance by appealing to The People instead of leaving it up to admin fiat: Would anyone make a fuss about the swap or really feel cheated by not having a chance to take Van as a swap nation if my team was allowed to swap out Van for Abysia? Thanks.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

I don't have any objections, though I have no real say in the matter, as the Mysterios advisor, if Micah wants to suggest a nation swap for his team. As advisor, if he feels his team is untenable as is, then by all means, make it more tenable. It is perhaps getting a bit late for this, but the game has been delayed for quite a while anyhow.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

Ghoul31 is involved in two games, and is getting his turns in regularly.

Also, Sept, I pmed you that I know that the sauromatia pretender has been sent to you 2x.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

No! The game has been delayed long enough already, we're going to lose more players, just start the damn game!

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

One way or another we'll have all of our pretenders in by Wednesday.

EDIT: I've sent a Caelum Pretender to Septimius. If none of my teammates send in a Caelum pretender, and we're ready to start, just use the one I sent.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

A few game notes:

Drpraetorius is dropping Ghoul31 from his team. This automatically brings in Tarrax (the global alternate) onto the Deva's.

I appreciate that Micah has come into the game to help The Blessed Ones in the capacity of team advisor. But I'm am really against reopening swaps from the AI pool at this very late stage. Several of the team Captains have voiced objections to any more delays and to any further actions that would cause any more delays.

I now have 14 pretenders (including my own):

Formoria
Arco
Helheim
Kailasa
Lanka
Mictlan
Niefelheim
Pangaea
Sauromatia
T'ien Chi'
Tir na nog
Ulm
Vanheim
Yomi

I need two more pretenders:

Hinnom
Caelum

Edit: I need one more pretender

Hinnom

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

All pretenders have been received. Are there any last minute changes/revisions? This is the final call. Deva's, got your act together yet? Who's playing who?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Send ye Pretenders to Me!
 

pyg is absolutely playing Hinnom. I'll send him a reminder to submit a pretender :).

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Gandalf's Wizardry Part 2.
 

Very good Deva's, and Illuminated is playing Caelum.

Pretender submissions/revisions are over. I am now sending all of the game files and info (including e-mail addresses) to Gandalf for game creation on the Dom3Minions server utilizing PBEM with hosting reminders. Good luck, and may the best team win.

This should be a quite exciting game. Get your bets in! I can't resist some speculation.

Five great teams who will emerge as the ultimate victor:

Deva's Darlings: It's no secret they are the favorite, led by the legendary DrPraetorius and his talented and experienced crew. The doctor is in!

ACGHHS: Probably the second favorite, skillfully and actively helmed by the notorious and extremely gifted Chrispedersen.

The Mysterios: A team whose lineage is steeped in Noobs vs. Vets history with many experienced members, it is commanded by the noble Agema and advised by the NvV veteran Lingchih. My personal pick, go Mysterios! :D

The Blessed Ones: Something of an upstart team but with lots of talent and potential. It is commanded by the courageous AlgaeNymph and advised by perhaps one of the best Dom3 MP players right now, Micah. Are they blessed?

The AI Menace: The longest shot, but they are probably not to be taken too lightly, especially if ignored.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Gandalf's Wizardry Part 2.
 

I am probably the weakest of all the combatants in this game, but I am REALLY looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

When I subbed for the last 1/3 in the NvV game and had to keep Baalz occupied while my team did the heavy lifting, it showed me that these team games can be quite exacting and exciting.

Good Luck to us...and medium luck to the rest of you!!!:up:

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Gandalf's Wizardry Part 2.
 

And don't miss the next game in this exciting and innovative series featuring:

• More provinces to conquer
• Direct connect and PBEM capability
• New roles including team advisers for every team and global alternates
• Additional special magic sites to claim
• A deadlier and more powerful AI team to defeat
• And much, much, more :eek:

Feel free to post suggestions if you have them.

(shameless promotion)

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Gandalf's Wizardry Part 2.
 

Uh-oh.

Uh... actually, my friend RodSuoirotearp, who is a totally green newbie and no good at this game at all, let alone a threat to anyone, will be subbing in as captain, er... until I get back.

So there is totally no need for the rest of you to ally against us.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Gandalf's Wizardry Part 2.
 

How did you change the title of the thread?

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Gandalf's Wizardry Part 2.
 

You can change the title of the thread by editing the first post.

I actually think several of the teams have the potential to be quite strong. In particular, the Blessed Ones with the inestimable micah advising them could be quite the dark horse.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Gandalf's Wizardry Part 2.
 

Ally against you and the Deva's, perish the thought! :shock::eek:: What gave you a crazy idea like that? :)

I was just speculating about a hypothesis, I know I don't know nothin! :confused:

ACGHHS, with their emphasis on teamwork :ghug: (as exemplified in their team name) are a force to be reckoned with as well.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Gandalf's Wizardry Part 2.
 

I'm also interested in seeing whether the BI mod will make any meaningful/significant difference in the effective difficulty of the AI team. If it doesn't, then its use might be discontinued in the next game.

Ok, well my gut feelings about the odds on each team seem pretty much on the money.

Having some time to waste, I did a calculation using each starting players Shrapnel forum join date to give a general idea of how long that player has been playing Dominions (I know it is a flawed measure which doesn't take into account actual games played/and other shrapnel games like SE) but what the hell.

Based on that, here's what I found:

Avg starting player experience = % chance of winning:

ACGHHS - 3yrs, 7 months = 46% (Hoplo has earliest join date of anyone, followed by Chris!)
Deva's - 2yrs, 1 month = 27%
Mysterios - 1 yr, 5 months = 18%
Blessed Ones - 9 months = around 10%

This seems to favor ACGHHS. But you could then add in a bonus of x percent * the number of nations that team has that are listed among the top 10 winningest EA nations in the victorious nations thread. Depending upon the weighting of x, the Deva's could be seen to have the real actual advantage. You could also add in an adviser bonus, etc, etc.

This is just for fun of course. :D

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Gandalf's Wizardry Part 2.
 

Well in my defence for how rubbish I am considering my great forum age I must confess I joined the board for Space Empires not Dominions. And although I owned Dom 2 I did little more than load it up. Never really playing till Dom 3 and then I was a late starter :)

And I am still waiting for my Gold Pen icon for being on the boards 5 years....

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Gandalf's Wizardry Part 2.
 

Do we have an ETA on the actual start? The troops are getting restless...

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Gandalf's Wizardry Part 2.
 

I suspected as much, since your forum age is older than both Chris and DrP. So assuming your effective forum age is say only 2 years, I can recalculate my figures appropriately (forgot to add a base of 25% to the above not counting the AI team):

Deva's - 2 yrs, 1 month + nation bonus = 75%
ACGHHS - 2 yrs, 7 months = 63%
Mysterios - 1 yr, 5 months + nation bonus = 56%
Blessed Ones - 9 months - nation bonus = 26%

Sounds better. ;)

I've no ETA yet DrP, I know Gandalf said he was ill :sick: for a bit, but I'll try to get you one soon. It won't be long now I suspect. While your waiting there's a nice new poll on team names/themes on our forum, if you haven't noticed. :D

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Gandalf's Wizardry Part 2.
 

If you go by games actually won per player, Chris' team clearly comes out on top.

Chrispedersen has won 2 games, got a draw in a 3rd, and either a team victory or another draw in a 4th game... it's slightly unclear from the HoF. Hoplosternum has a newbie game victory, plus NvV3. Grudgebringer has a big team victory, where he was the punching bag for the opposing team ;)

Dr P has (in the hall of honor) 1 recorded solo victory, and one team victory. Pyg and I share in the same, large team victory from NvV1, and no one else we have on our side has won a game. Edit: Actually, I take that back, I played a scenario game with a few people that my side technically won also (the game was abandoned due to various map imbalances), so I have two team victories.

From your team, agema has 1 win, you have two team wins, and you're being advised by Lingchih, who has 2 team victories.

The blessed ones' AlgaeNymph has one victory, and is the only playing member with a victory credited. However, they are being advised by micah, who has 7....


If you want to count wins by nation, chris' is also hardly deficient.

Wins for ACGHHS nations - 15.5
Wins for Deva's Darlings nations - 15.5
Wins for Mysterios nations - 12.5
Wins for Blessed Ones nations - 8

So, if we examine the raw data rather than the anti-giant hype/propoganda machine, clearly it would seem that ACGHHS is the team to beat, not the Devas, as under every measure of player skill and nation capability, they come out either even with or ahead of the Devas. In some cases by significant margins.

:)

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Gandalf's Wizardry Part 2.
 

There are many other ways to determine the favourite of course. If we go by quantum_mechani's rankings in the Dominion Nations Evaluations thread (excluding the irrelevent SP rank and I have had to use CPs rank for Lanka as QM did not list them) we get rankings of:

Devas (18+10+15+12) = 55
Mysterios (18+11+13+12) = 54
Blessed Ones(14+11+11+17) = 53
ACGHHS (16+11+11+12) = 50

Then there is the Hot Air or to be topical Global Warming rankings. Found by adding all the posts of the players in the team together.

Here we get rankings of:

Devas (2513+1615+109+639) = 4516
ACGHHS (2983+316+286+892) = 4477
Mysterios (751+509+663+53) = 1976
Blessed Ones (354+88+25+40) = 507

As Global warming is sometimes considered a contentious subject there is always the noise index. Found by dividing total team posts by total months on the board.

Noise Index rankings are:

Devas 4516/105 = 43
Mysterios 1976/70 = 28
ACGHHS 4477/175 = 26
Blessed Ones 507/41 = 12

And what can we learn from these rankings (and Septs & Rdonj's)?

Well which ever way you slice it the Deva's are looking at the top of the pile ;) And it's not looking like a good idea to invest too heavily in the Blessed Ones :p

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Gandalf's Wizardry Part 2.
 

Well, how much a player posts doesn't really have much to do with their skill level. Just look at you, 300 some posts to your name and one of the larger numbers of victories scored of players in the game.

Clearly what we need is a count of how many times on average each team has read their manuals to decide this close and exacting contest.



More seriously we devas certainly are a strong team. And if you say mean things about us we may have to stomp on you a little. Just don't blame us if during said stomping, hordes of jaguars and androphags creep in to molest you.

Re: Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI, Gandalf's Wizardry Part 2.
 

Ut-oh. laughing I've read my manual sooo many times the front cover, the back cover, and the first page are all torn off. Its looking very dog eared. And sadly, I have the pages for certain things.. memorized.

Castles. 40.
turn sequence 72.
Dominion. 92.

And we promise not to use jaguars on anyone the giants have stomped.

As for age... Um. my age is actually discounted quite a bit, since I played original dominions. Must confess, the demo was so good, I never bought the actual game.
My date on here was when I came back for dom2 - couldn't remember name or password = ).

Seriously, for a moment, I think you all are way overlooking micah's team. Deva's are it for raw power - but as soon as micah joined the blessed's ... it became even.