Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Thanks for answering all my questions.
Binding the spells to specific locations sounds great.
This really forces you to use the map for your purposes.
I also can't play a fixed strategy every time since I don't know if the required location is available.
Something I see rarely these days.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

In an average game, how many units can/is the player managing? And how many units can be under one commander?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I dont think Ive hit a limit. I HAVE gotten too many units to easily manage in the units view screen. Around 100 it gets messy. But I dont think Ive hit a limit of any type

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

You can have upwards of 200 units on one commander and probably more, but after 9 rows of 20 it gets really bloody annoying.

Not that you'll see that kind of numbers in-game, that was in the good old days when we still had a debug console to cheat with before Johan removed it from the game.

Once you manage to build up your forces some, maybe three rows of 20 is the max you can dedicate to a single army unless you're going to assault a heavily fortified position.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Do Bogus & Friends make an appearance in CoE3?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

No but I have requested it multiple times. Its a signature piece. Especially if you know the story behind them

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Finally preodered.
Noticed CoE3 got 15% off.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Can you rename any of your commanders like in dom3 or just the leaders, like in coe2?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

No renaming possible so far.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Aww, that sucks. Maybe a patch will add that in? It doesn't seem like it'd be too hard to implement.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

How does damage, armor, and strength work? It looks like most things just roll a single open ended die and that's how much damage it taken. If you have armor, do you get to roll a die and add your armor value to the damage prevented or do you just subtract your armor value from the incoming damage? The Bakemono wizard in Edi's AAR does 1d3+3 with his staff. Is that from some kind of magical staff, or does it have something to do with his strength of 6?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Damage is open-ended. Damage bonus actually increases die size. The reason why it appears as a bonus is because a staff can be replaced by a better magic weapon and the damage bonus would then increase the die size of that weapon. For monsters with natural weapons, strength increases (from spells etc) directly increase die size of weapons.

Armor doesn't get die rolls added, it's a direct subtraction. The mechanics are a bit more involved than that, but it's all going to be in the manual.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

CoE3... Sounds just like a game for me!
Faster paced and with a better AI than Dom3? Cool!
The combat screen looks about as exciting as a cancer-patient, but I can live with that I suppose.

A few questions:

1. Are there more graphic terrain-types than just forest/mountains in the world? Would be nice to see and wander some deserts for example.

2. Is there any "leader" class that specializes in melee? Only heard about a necro and some enchantress so far.

3. What MP alternatives will the game have except hotseat?

Extra thanks to all the people who bothered to write AARs! Cheers nyiggahs

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

1) Many. Rivers, lakes, volcanoes, savanna, desert, mesa, jungle, swamp, and many more. The Map Editor presently lists 196 tiles altho some of those are variations of the same terrain and some are special sites.

2) Yes. I would say Baron, Troll King, Senator, and Pale Ones. They tend to rule the early game and smaller maps. Dwarves and Burgmeister (hobbits, halfings) also tend to play a melee game very well. But they are more horde (large numbers) and are slow so they are better for the turtle defensive player.

3) Only HotSeat, and Direct Connect over the net like Dom3 does. No PbEM (and I think it plays too fast for that anyway). I predict it will popular in IRC channels and Chat rooms.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I'll throw this into the void: could there be a game option to randomize the first side to attack (rather than the defender always getting the first attack)? Maybe a check box in an in-game menu?

That would add some extra element of surprise and make skirmishes a bit less about amassing a couple more units as cannon fodder.

Although, as I reflect on this tactic, having the defender always attack first adds an extra element of strategy to the game (e.g. if you have a slightly smaller force than your enemy, then you would have the opportunity to retreat since the enemy would be hesitant to attack).

It's way to far into development to implement this, but this is an idea: certain tiles could have random chances of allowing first attack to the defender or aggressor. For instance, if you attack while on a forest tile, maybe there is a 30% change the aggressor attacks first due to forest ambush. With a castle or tower, the defender would always attack first. If a swamp, the defender would be more likely to attack first.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I hope in the future an initiative value will be given for each unit, and each round of combat die rolls are added to it to determine action order. Each unit only gets one action per round but then the high initiative units have greater chance of going first. I'd keep the variation in initiative low so stacks of high initiative units don't hugely dominate.

Maybe in the future, I'm just keen to start playing :)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I wanted to correct something I said earlier (in relation to recruitment and allow commanders to lead other units in COE2), this feature is already in CoE2. You can make a commander a unit by viewing that commander's stats and pressing "d."

I should read the manual more closely. Have fun playing CoE2 until CoE3 comes out :)

Oh yeah, one other thing. Instead of the game winning screen saying "You won!" You should offer nuggets of wisdom, easter eggs, story ending depending on statistics or the commander with which you won, or insight about the game (a la nethack fortune cookies).

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

That is a fantastic idea. CoE2 is lots of fun, but winning... kind of sucks. It is anti-climactic to say the least. I can't tell you how many times I've strung out a game just to mess around with stuff because I don't want to see "You've won!" and then game over.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Dom3 does that too if you actually play to the point of winning. You get a message saying "A true god has ascended!" and then it drops you back at the start screen. Rather anticlimatic.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I keep wanting the end-game screen to say "One of your commanders has decided he deserves to be thought of as more than a mere mortal. He is continuing into the rest of the world to claim his godhood. (check out Illwinters other fantasy game Dominions 3)"

And then link to my Dominions 3 link so I can get a couple dollars off of each purchase.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

AND we still surge forward. As soon as it was mentioned again here, Edi posted it again there.
And now on the progress page amoung other great additions is a switch to turn --rename on.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Wish: I know that there's no unit description in CoE3 like Dom3, but when/if CoE3 get patched later so the community can mod CoE3, could the devs make it possible/open to add unit descriptions?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Don't see why it couldn't at least be discussed. If and when modding comes up, I will raise the subject.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I hope it will also be possible to change some class names.
The 'Burgmeister' class sounds very odd. I'd have prefered something more stylish like Castellan...

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Class names, no. The Burgmeister class name comes from the leader, since the leader of a Hoburg settlement is the Burgmeister. Dom3 didn't have an official Illwinter hoburg nation, but in CoE3 they are very much a class of their own.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

This didnt work out we well as I had hoped. One day I might figure out how to do an AAR here. But here is a webby version of a Druid / Baron alliance.

http://www.dom3minions.com/~gandalf/...uid-Baron.html

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Are you still playing the game out Gandalf? I played CoE2 yesterday and experienced how a couple of random factors can determine if you have a fast or slow start. On this note, is there an option for the map to be known but still with fog of war? Even scrying spells retain their value if they lift the fog of war to reveal defender strength. Or an option for the map to be known in an area around your home, just to make the starting game "fairer", as I just realised you would know where the enemies start. Unless you make it so their homes are hidden on a revealed map until you actually see it. Considerations for future patches..... :)

CoE3 does seem such a quick game, more time is spent writing and editing screen shots for the AAR than playing the game. When its released I might try do a completely youtube AAR.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Im not sure. My health gives me only bursts of time that I can do things. I will see how I feel tomorrow.
I did convert it to JPGs instead of PNGs at a request so the images would load faster

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

No way to reveal the map anymore since Johan removed the debug console. No option for a wider vision start, though that could be done through a command line switch I suppose, --vision=NBR (2, 3 or 4 squares), but any more than that would be too much. Even 2 squares (which some classes get due to their fort) is a lot on small maps.

Yes, much more time. The Necromancer AAR I'm writing generally requires quite a bit of time to take and edit the screenshots (mainly the editing part) so that you can squeeze all the stuff in there rather than have 1 million screenshots.

As you may have noticed, the narrative is now moving along with several turns per post after I got done with the initial exploration and destroyed the High Cultist.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Edi and GP, both of your AARs are great. Thanks a lot. They're a good snack until the meal of CoE3 comes out, and it gives a nice peek at some of the changes made since CoE2.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

As the game releases soon, whats the situation with a forum? Will there be a specific Illwinter/Conquest of Elysium 3 section on these forums? Or will there be a migration elsewhere?

People purchasing the game will have questions that need posing on a forum, where will it be done?

Perhaps I should be more patient and find out... :)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

That is a decision to be made by Illwinter and if we are to have a dedicated CoE3 forum here, it must be discussed with Shrapnel. Otherwise we're in for a migration.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

This is looking very very promising to me. Boy do I hope the AI is competant and the tactical battles aren't too inferior to Dom3's.

May I ask: During setup, can one choose more than one instance of one nation in a game? That is, could I have 3 teams, and one team be made up of an alliance of TWO witches (or Bakemons or whatever)? Or have two witches play against each other?
(While I understand that this wouln't make too much sense in Dom3 for a couple of reasons, I'd really hope for that here.)

thank you.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

If you want, you can set all the players to the same class. However, with some classes this may cause problems or limit options:

- High Priestess: Baal is unique, therefore can be summoned only by one player
- Demonologist: Demon lords are unique, therefore only limited number available
- Troll King: Not sure of Troll Mum is unique, if she is, then only one Troll King per map is advisable. This has been raised with the devs.

The other classes have no such problems.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Wow, for some reason I find this not a problem, but an interesting feature. I think it can create some fun races against time. But it's just me.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Yes the game is perfectly willing to throw multiples of a nation into the game. That causes some fun AAR style moments. When your cocky dwarf army is going strong then runs into another dwarf army wearing a different color. It seems as though my worst situations have been from meeting a matching nation. Or when you have been fighting hard against a Troll King and the game announces that Gundar the Troll King is out of the game. But when you look, your opponents armies are still there because it was a different Troll King.

It might create some interesting games later. A more standard DnD style wargame by everyone playing Barons? Or a challenge game where all of the Warlock players tries to prove who is the BEST Warlock player.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

How are the classes and the races connected? Both Baron and Necromancers sound like human leaders just with opposite alignments (Good & Evil).

Can units get better besides giving them equipment. Most games use experience for that, though Dom3 doesn't have experience. Another, much cooler way would be something like Thing of Unreason eating units or a specific resource and getting more powerful from it.
That would make units more unpredictable if they can vary a bit in power.
(Anyone remember the crabs in Magic Carpet that could turn to Monster Crabs and multiply if they eat enough mana?!)

How dynamic is the environment? I heard something about death mushrooms growing on ancient battle fields. Is this static (=never changes) or can the field grow and spawn bigger more dangerous mushrooms like a mushroom mother if you don't clean it up in time. Would make things more interesting if you really have to care about the developments in your environment.
However, I'm aware that a 'living environment simulation' is not an easy thing to do.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

From what is known, the Baron is a fighter-type leader, with no spells but a stronger potential early in the game.

Some units, especially the leaders, can cast special rituels transforming them to a new unit type. It is know for exemple that with enough hands of glory a necromancer could become a vampire or a lich.

The vampire can feed on villages to reduce the insanity gained by casting necromantic rituals (or is it onlye "raise dead" that give insanity ?), while the lich is supposed to be immune to the insanity effect/status (but I think that you need a temple or some other terrain to cast this ritual).
The necromancer apprentice could also use similar rituals to become a full necromancer (and later a lich or vampire), but the cost in ressources would probably be huge.

From what I understand some non casters leaders might have ability to those rituals, the Troll king is supposed to be able to call its Mum who is a caster while himself isn't.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Dom3 has experience and so does CoE3, also implemented very much the same way. Veteran units are a lot better than newbies, but the problem is making them survive long enough. Many classes get tougher summons that benefit proportionally less from XP than the weaker units, but it is there. The problem of survivability is mainly with front line units, but even they will usually get to 1 star if you have a large enough pool. Getting to two stars is a lot more difficult.

As far as alignments, the baron is not some inherently "good" class. He's an ironfisted tyrant when you read the description. Necromancer, Demonologist, High Priestess, Priest King and Bakemono are more directly evil, to say nothing of the High Cultist.

But most of the classes are rather in a gray area.

As far as the environment, some monsters can multiply (like the death mushrooms), but they don't spread over the land uncontrolled. Some events can cause monster spawning etc and with scenarios, it's possible to construct almost anything in that way.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I wholeheartedly agree. Perfect, in my eyes.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Troll King doesn't do any rituals. Mum arrives via event, but boy can she do rituals... :D

By the way, Mum is not unique, so multiple troll kings duking it out is quite possible on an even playfield.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Oops, almost forgot that Dom3 has experience. Didn't play it for a while now, and I can't remember it having a real impact.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

For some of these it points to CoE3 being more event-oriented than Dom3 was. What global rituals did in Dom3 as far as changing the whole game for some nations at the harm of others, CoE3 does with events and some rituals.

The Troll Kinds Mum is a major factor. She shows up as a game event. First she suddenly sends gold to help her son. Then later a message says that she is unhappy with how he is doing things so she shows up to "take charge". Others have such events also. The Pale Ones Oracle appearing for instance. Both give their nations new resource needs and new abilities. Mum Troll can cast a ritual causing forests to become Troll Forests where powerful fungus can sprout up and increase, and carrion creatures can appear to wander away attacking everything.

There are also events such as the breach of the Realm of Death which causes disposessed spirits to appear in numbers dependent on the amount of death has been there (places you fought big battles to get suddenly cause another large battle to keep it). Or the Fungus Summer which increases the resource income of some such as Witches and can cause giant fungus to appear in forests or swamps.

Those are just some of the surprises that the game throws at you. AND of course the scenario commands can use timers or triggers to get more events written into downloadble scenarios that I am hoping people here will get into making.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Just curious what you beta testers believe so far to be the case: In Dom3, the least savory aspect of its combination of features for me was that summons are almost always much better than recruitable national units; this causes me to want to play games others do not particularly care for (e.g. very low site frequency, hard research, etc.), which does not "solve" my "problem" but makes things more like I prefer: viability of recruitable national units in all stages of the game.

How is this in CoE3? Is it the case here, too, to the same, lesser, or greater degree that summons makes recruiting troops quickly obsolete?
Thank you.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Well Dom3 was designed to be early game of exploration and expansion, mostly armored units. Then a mid-game more of research and forging. Then a late game where super combatants and major magics made a bigger emphasis.

I think CoE3 has the same. BUT since the game moves much quicker, there isnt such an extreme gap between them. If you let certain nations get powerful then you will see some extreme summons. But usually it happens when the armor specific armies are still capable.

ALSO CoE3 does allow for you to play with all players using just that type of nation. I suppose that if someone wanted to they could also write a scenario which specifically downgrades the magic nations.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Short of some nations that can get massive income of resources because their resources are so very common, gold income is liable to be a lot more than the other special stuff, which means that you will be able to recruit far more armored troops.

And even the classes that can get massive resource income on short notice have the drawbaack that whereas a necro major summon costs 80 hands of glory, their costs somewhere around 750 resources unless they want to fight what they summoned.

Essentially, outside of some demon lords or the doom horrors, you will never be able to field summons alone that can guarantee you victory when facing regular troops. Super combatants in CoE3 are far less super than in Dom3. They cannot survive without supporting troops, because they can't kill the enemy fast enough and the insect stings of the normal infantry will eventually wear them down and kill them.

Put mage support behind the infantry and the summons rapidly become far less of a problem.

Some battlefield summon spells can turn the tide, but they are mainly restricted to the Demonologist and the Troll King's mum after she does an upgrade (which ain't cheap).

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

thank you very much

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I had a question that was an offshoot of Gandalf's comment: if you take over an opposing class's last remaining citadel but still have other enemies to fight, then do the remaining troops of the recently defeated class become independents or disappear off the map?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

They disappear.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I've just seen Gandalf's new AAR where his ally started on the other side of the map, and I wonder if it's possible to add an option to force allies to be close to each other.
I like to play cooperative games with friends and it's usually nice if you start close to each other so one is able to help the other. If both are positioned far way each one is more or less playing his own game.