Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

Lastly, I was checking out the PBW site and wow, we get the turns in out email! I've never played a PBW game, how many turns would you do in an evening? how many times a week would you play?

Also, what about starting conditions, player points, tech level, etc?

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, but you could still load up the map in the map editor and look at it to see what is in any system...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With most PBW games, you play one or two turns a day, depending on the turn rate.

[ August 26, 2003, 02:36: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

If it gets set to any faster than 24 hours I may have a hard time keeping up, unlike some of my fellow avid fans of SEIV I do need sleep-alot of it as a matter of fact-not to say i was even accepted in 8472 which i volunteered for...

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

don't start until sept 1st... as it is a long weekend... would hate to miss the first few turns

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

It would be nice to start that soon I'm afraid i may not be the caliber of some of the other players here...I only just entered the Online arena and well some of you guys rule the world and such...

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

BUG: Breen Cloaking Device I-III are all avaible at level 1....

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Huh? This I will check out right now. Thank you.

Thanks also Openair for the Breen bug. Fixed it just now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif And it also showed me another bug that also fixed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

When I play a game, I normally have the following settings.

1. 48 hour turns
2. No stellor Manipulation
3. No intel
4. No colony technology swapping
5. 2000 Racial Points
6. Good starting planets
7. No Surrender
8. Retro -series ok
9. Multiple training facilites ok
10. Gentalmen rules apply. (Those I will list out in more detail later)
11. Limited Tech Trades - I will explain more later
12. Large Map 200 =/- 25 systems

I also advise everyone to remember to use a password for their race, otherwise it will be accessible by all.

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

In the first game playing with the Startrek Mod
i used the Dominion with General Ship
Construction.

The result of researching the Battleship was :
None. ??

Tech Level Req 2 := 18
Shouldn´t 18 be 1 like in all the others in
this techtree ?

greetings.
Tymy

Name := Battleship
Short Name := Battleship
Description :=
Code := BB
Primary Bitmap Name := Battleship
Alternate Bitmap Name := Battleship
Vehicle Type := Ship
Tonnage := 1000
Cost Minerals := 1000
Cost Organics := 1000
Cost Radioactives := 500
Engines Per Move := 1
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := General Ship Construction
Tech Level Req 1 := 7
Tech Area Req 2 := General Race Technology
Tech Level Req 2 := 18
Number of Abilities := 0
Requirement Must Have Bridge := True
Requirement Can Have Aux Con := True
Requirement Min Life Support := 2
Requirement Min Crew Quarters := 2
Requirement Uses Engines := True
Requirement Max Engines := 9
Requirement Pct Fighter Bays := 0
Requirement Pct Colony Mods := 0
Requirement Pct Cargo := 0

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Huh? This I will check out right now. Thank you.

Thanks also Openair for the Breen bug. Fixed it just now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif And it also showed me another bug that also fixed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have tried everything to duplicate this and have not been able too. I can think of nothing that would generate such and error. I have checked everything and can only think that perhaps is was a random negative event.

If it happens again, please take a screen cap of it and email me that and your save game file. Thanks.

Fyron has also pointed out the benifits of adding the Colony Tech mod. If I do this, and I am very inclined to do so, it will be a minor undertaking and will take some time to complete.

I will need to added the components, redo all of the 30 race EMP's, revise the Racial Traits, update all AI research doc, and update all race General docs. After doing so, I will have to play test the mod once again to see if the AI's use it.

If I include this in the next patch, it will push the mod back a good week or so.

The benifit to having it for a PBW game is that it severly limits a players ability to trade colony technology. That is unless they are of the same colony trait then the point is mute because one could be Ice - Rock Trait and the other Gas - Rock Trait and trade each other. This of course is considered cheating, but that has never stopped people from trading colony tech before.

So I ask you, should I incorperate the colony tech mod into the next Version of this mod, or wait until later?

Doing it now means it is done and can be play tested. Waiting means that I will have to ask Geo to upload the mod twice. Given how many Version of a mod are running at PBW, this will only add to the confusion.

Any one care to venture some advice here?

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Greetings, and thank you, FIXED

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

Thus far:

Star Trek Mod v1.1.6

1. Fixed Fixed Error in Breen Cloaking II
2. Fixed Breen Cloaking II & III now obtained at correct tech level.
3. Fixed Error in VehicleSize Battleship - General Race Technology. Was tech level 18, now 1.
4. Fixed Ferengi High-Energy Weapons were showing up in Klingon Technology
5. Fixed Ferengi Warheads were showing up in Klingon Technology
6. Fixed Error with Breen Ships in VehicalSize doc
7. Changed All propulsion designs in VehcialSize doc - More uniform

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

Posted by Atrocities
So I ask you, should I incorperate the colony tech mod into the next Version of this mod, or wait until later?
Do it now, please. The AI player are sucker for a colony type trade, plus they never use the other types of colonies.
Great idea to limit it, and yes please incorperate now. I do not mind the wait.

Lighthorse

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do it, do it, do it. The sooner we all make this mod a "standard", the sooner it will be incorporated into SEV. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Seriously, the colony trade loophole is a real pet peeve of mine. I was happy to incorporate Ed's colony mod into mine, and I'll be more than happy to wait, so it can be worked into the Trek Mod.

[ August 27, 2003, 09:49: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Every vehicle has standard 1 or more crew quarters. But does this mean that the crew
doesn´t do any maintanance on the ship ??

I mean, doesn´t a crew quarter must have a standard ability to repair at least 1 component per turn ??

Just a thought.

gr. Tymy

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

Ok, I will added the Colony mod. Oh boy........ I have my work cur out for me.

Tymy, that is a good concept but unfortunetly the only way to get the crew to do minor repair work would be to added that ability to the ..... Now that is not a bad idear... crew quarters. I shall consider this.

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

Do any of you have a clue as to how much of an undertaking it was to add the Colony Mod to this ST mod? It was not easy, but it has been done. I am in the process of play testing it now to be sure all of the errors and conflicts are taken care of. I hope that they are at any expense.

Here is a current list as of this morning.

Star Trek Mod v1.2.0

1. Updated Splash BMP
2. Added All Race EMP Files
3. Changed All Races General Doc to include the Colony Mod Traits
4. Chagned All Races Research AI Files to include the Colony Mod
5. Added New Vulcan Ships to the Vulcan Neutral Race
6. Chagned All Neutral Race General files to include Colony Mod Traits
7. Changed All AI General files to inlcude Colony Mod Traits
8. Added Research Doc to all Neutral Races
9. Changed All Neutral Race Research files to reflect Colony Mod Traits

Star Trek Mod v1.1.9

1. Added Repair ability to Crew Quarters (1 per turn)
2. Added Place holder Racial Traits to RacialTraits doc (For future use)
3. Added Colony Mod coponents
4. Added Colony Mod technologies to TechArea (15,16,17)
5. Added Added Colony Mod racial traits to racialTraits doc

Star Trek Mod v1.1.8

1. Modified Each Races Defualt Designs (Satellites) to use race weapons
2. Modified Each Races Defualt Designs (Weap Platforms) to use race weapons
3. Modified Each Races Defualt Designs (Battle Stations) to use race weapons
4. Modified Each Races Defualt Designs (Shuttles / fighters) to use race weapons
5. Fixed Minor errors in some races Settings.txt

Star Trek Mod v1.1.7

1. Updated Installation Doc
2. Added More Star Trek system names to SystemNames.txt
3. Added New Emperor Names to EmpeorNames.txt
4. Added StarFleet to DesignNames - Starfleet ship names
5. Added More Emperor types to EmperorTitles.txt

Star Trek Mod v1.1.6

1. Fixed Fixed Error in Breen Cloaking II
2. Fixed Breen Cloaking II & III now obtained at correct tech level.
3. Fixed Error in VehicleSize Battleship - General Race Technology. Was tech level 18, now 1.
4. Fixed Ferengi High-Energy Weapons were showing up in Klingon Technology
5. Fixed Ferengi Warheads were showing up in Klingon Technology
6. Fixed Error with Breen Ships in VehicalSize doc
7. Changed All propulsion designs in VehcialSize doc - More uniform
8. Changed 8472 Combat Plexus I - II bmp image to 311
9. Changed Dominion Varethiel Armor I - III bmp image to 728
10. Changed TechArea shuttles Technology - removed unneeded requirements

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

Hi,

Could you look into the research of Warp Technology.

I have found Warp Core 1 on a ruinsplanet.
When i wanted to research the next level
i saw that i still had to research level 1
and the result would be None !

As from researching level 2 and up i had
no problems.

gr. Tymy

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pop Modifier 6 Population Amount := 3999
Pop Modifier 6 Production Modifier Percent := 120
Pop Modifier 6 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 120
Pop Modifier 7 Population Amount := 4999
Pop Modifier 7 Production Modifier Percent := 135
Pop Modifier 7 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 135
Pop Modifier 8 Population Amount := 5999
Pop Modifier 8 Production Modifier Percent := 130
Pop Modifier 8 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 130
Pop Modifier 9 Population Amount := 6999
Pop Modifier 9 Production Modifier Percent := 135
Pop Modifier 9 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 135

I edit this by hand, but it should be changed. Thanks again.

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

I am about to throw my hand up at this mod. I have ran into multiple issues with the AI not wanting to design Attack ships. They used to, but now they won't! Oh sure they will design them if you set the tech level to max before you play, but otherwise nope.

I don't know what changed to make the AI stop working correctly. I am beginning to hate this game. Or at least the fricking AI.

I have put everything in the defualt design back to the way they were in the Last patch, when I know they were all working, and STILL nothing. I give up. Only a couple of the races do as they are set up to do. 8472, Federation, and Romulans. The rest just do nothing in the way of design other than to make bases and cargo ships. WTF is up with this?

====
I don't understand what you mean by population modifier or why it should be changed.

====
Random events and ruins are out of my knowledge base. Sorry, I do not know how to fix this.

====
The colony tech mod is added and seems to be working correctly. I hope.

I will try and figure out the AI design files later after I have had time to think about them and cool off.

FYI

When I release the next patch, 1.2.0 there will be two Version, one will become the standard, PBW and SP. and the other will be for those who do not wish to loose their current save game, but want to take advantage of all of the non colony mod updates.

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

Version 1.2.0 has been upload and is available.

( Patch 9 contains Version 1.1.6 through 1.2.0 )

You can either upgrade to the PBW Version or keep the SP Version. If you follow the instruction on the web site, you can even have both Versions. - Recommended.

[ August 30, 2003, 22:45: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

I will email Geoschmo and ask him to upload the 1.2.0 PBW Version to the Play By Web Server.

[ August 30, 2003, 22:44: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

Ok, I got them all working again. Each race by turn 25 has research basic weapons and are using them in their designs.

I still don't know what caused the hang up, perhaps the game set up has something to do with. I always run everything on medium, with 5k and good startings.

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

"And so it begins..."

(OK, a Vorlon said that, not a Tholian, but who cares, let's rock! (pun intended) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

Hey Atrocities,

Thanks to your effort on restricting Colony technology trading in this mod. After reading your posting on all the problems you encounted, my thanks to you. Hell, one of these days, I met you down at lucky lab pub and pay you a brew.

Lighthorse

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This stuff in Settings.txt:

Pop Modifier 7 Population Amount := 4999
Pop Modifier 7 Production Modifier Percent := 135
Pop Modifier 7 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 135

Needs to become:

Pop Modifier 7 Population Amount := 4999
Pop Modifier 7 Production Modifier Percent := 125
Pop Modifier 7 SY Rate Modifier Percent := 125

As it is now, Modifier 7 is too high (resulting from a minor typo). The bonuses go 115, 120, 135, 130, 135, 140, etc. They should be 115, 120, 125, 130, 135, 140.

[ August 31, 2003, 05:37: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The problem is that Warp Core I requires no technology, and Warp Core II requires Warp Technology 2. Warp Technology 1 does nothing except allow some other tech areas. You can not get Warp Core I from ruins, as it has no tech requirements. What was the exact technology and level you got?

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

Thank Fyron, I will fix the type in the settings text in the next Version.

The Warp Core 1 is a free technology. The only way to get the AI to move around the map. If you have been following the progression of this mod, you might recall that I had a problem getting the Ai to expand in the early stages of the game. The free warp technology (Warp Core I) seemed to solve this.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thanks.

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

I am in the process of uploading the full mod once again with the new settigns doc. For those of you who have already downloaded the patch or full Version of 1.2.0 you can download this quick fix for the settings txt.

STM Settings Update

[ August 31, 2003, 13:09: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

Well I emailed Geo about uploading the mod, so lets hope he can find the time to accomodate my request. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

I downloaded 1.2 and the various image packs required (took several days, slow connection at home). Playing solo versus AI.
Had colonized 4 systems before my scouts found an AI (note : not a neutral) - the AI had a fleet of ships over it homeworld but had no other colonies and I had seen no sign of the AI scouting before I entered it's homesystem. The turn after I entered the system the AI blew my scout away and sent the fleet straight back to my homesystem.
Is the AI just a slow expander or is there an incorrect setting or something? All 19 of the AIs were showing 1 system/1 planet under the score card.
Also, (probably nothing you can do about this), all the AI ships I encountered had 3 structual integrity field components installed.

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please send me your saved game file. atrocities@astmod.com Thanks.

What turn were you on. The Ai will usually begins to expand around Turn 5 and up. I would recommend that you play a game on a large dense galaxy with medium settings.

We can do nothing about the AI putting 3 SIF on a ship. If you let your own ministers design your ships, you too will have this. Tis cheating of course, but who'll know.

In some games the AI does not expand well. It has a lot to do with the random settings of a map. The 10 main races should expand well, they have been for me. The other 10 minor races I have not worked with much. They have been a lower priority.

[ September 02, 2003, 11:19: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

Have you tried setting the Tonnage Required line for the SIF ability call in the ship designs to something like 100000, so they will only ever add one?

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nope, didn't even know you could do that.

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

When I went to get the save I found it had been saved over. Opps. If I can duplicate I'll send a save to you.

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The problem is that Warp Core I requires no technology, and Warp Core II requires Warp Technology 2. Warp Technology 1 does nothing except allow some other tech areas. You can not get Warp Core I from ruins, as it has no tech requirements. What was the exact technology and level you got?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I´m playing with the Dominion and nothing else then dominion technology.

In a new game i saw that i have the component Warp Core I. But WC I is a result of researching Warp Technology 1 and that is not listed in the tech tree (yet).

If i research physics i can research Warp technology level 1. Then i do have a result None !

I think one of the two listed below can fix this.
1. Besides giving the tech Warp Core 1, you will also have to give Warp Technology lvl 1 and physics lvl 1.
2. DO NOT give Warp Core lvl 1 as a free gift but let this be researched.

solution 2 is the easist to implement.

Hope i make things clear(er) now.

BTW : You´re right that i did not find the WC 1 on a ruins planet. My mistake !

Hope this helps you a bit further.

gr. Tymy

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

Warp Core I is supposed to be given free though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Perhaps Warp Tech 1 should give a WC that is between I and II? Or perhaps have WC I from Warp Tech 1, and have a Basic Warp Core that is given free (best solution IMO http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

[ September 04, 2003, 10:27: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

Read this

[ September 04, 2003, 17:35: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

Atrocities, perhaps you just need to get some help with the AI. It is most certainly frustrating, but it does not have full autonomy.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My guess is that he either does not have Gold, or does not have any patches of Gold installed. All of those things work fine, but not with unpatched Gold (as they were added in patches).

[ September 04, 2003, 19:57: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

I found the problem.

When the game selects random AI's for a game, it does not use seem to be accepting the colony tech even though each race has it programed into its research file. I double checked and the only races that use the colony tech are the ones that have EMP files. These races also have to be pre-selected, or they too will not use the colony tech.

I checked the research for each race, and sure enough there is nothing listed for that races Colony type. Ergo, no colony research means no colonies.

Each race has the colony trait added to it. The race lists all the traits EXCEPT for the colony one. I don't understand this, but I will try and figure it out. In the mean time if any one can offer up a suggestion I would appreciate it.

Random AI's do not use the colony tech even thoough their general files and research files are setup to use it.

___

Now the neutral AI's appear to be doing just fine, they are designing colony ships and colonizing within there own systems.

Yet the main AI's, aside from the one I chose for myself, don't even have colony tech listed in the research file or any components. Yes the colony ship is listed, but no component and nothing to research. What could possibly be the problem?

My race, pre-selected using a 5k EMP has the colony technology as specified.

EDIT----

I think I figured this out. I moved the colony tech from Racial Trait 5 up to 2 and it seems to have worked.

For some reason the game will not recgonize a 5 racial trait in the General txt file if that trait is a Colony trait. I will switch all races around now and see what happens.

[ September 04, 2003, 21:17: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

I believe that I have fixed the problem.

For some reason when a player sets the game to select a random number of players, those AI controlled players do not have access to the colony technology listed in their General.txt files. This racial trait is listed in all of the three settings, (2k 3k 5k) as the Last racial trait.

The AI will not recognize the racial trait Colony Tech - (Rock, gas, or Ice) if it is Last.

I seemed to have over come this problem by moving the colony racial trait in each of the 3 settings from the Last racial trait to the second right under each races specific racial trait. This has worked for each race thus far.

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

I used Ed's Colony Mod in my Highliner Mod, and I've had no problem in getting the AI's to colonize (rate of colonization is another thing...). I tried comparing your data and race files to the ones I've done, and I could find only two differences...

1) I put the world type tech first in the racial trait lists in the General data files.

2) I did not put the race's own world-type colony tech in the Research file (They already have it by default, and it can't go higher, so why have it there?)

I can't see why 1) would have any effect, but might 2) have one?

P.S. The EMP files are up-to-speed as far as the Colony Tech stuff being there, yes?

[ September 04, 2003, 22:02: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

I have nothing nice to say about the AI for Space Empires. I do so utterly hate it so.

The get the Borg and the Dominion Ai's to design ships as normal, and it works. Now, without ever having touched the Design files, they are no longer designing ships. I simply do not understand this.

I hate this fu*king Ai system so much that I do just want to rip the game from my HD and be done with it.

All races appear to be expanding now that I have moved the racial trait for colony to the second Adv. Trait in each of their races General.txt file. I do not understand why this had to be a problem or if it truly fixed it. People will have to play the mod and let me know.

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

If the AI has 0 points left at any point, it stops taking racial traits. So, this might in some way have been part of the problem.

AT: please sign on MSN IM soon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 04, 2003, 22:00: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

please check your email. and if you can, join #se4 right now.

I am willing to help you with the AI problems

Rollo

PS: we should make an appointment to meet in #se4 to work out the problems sometime

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

Patch 10 1.2.1

There is no guarantee that this patch will work. I tried my best.

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The tech is free at the start in order to make the AI expand. I can add a new component that is gained at WP level 1.

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

This is an email I received yestarday. Does any one know what the Mailer is talking about?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think he is talking about the AI and how the AI designs. The AI design system is hard coded and I can do nothing about it. I can only effect small changes in the design files. Past that The AI has full automany. (sp)

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

Ummm, well I was coming in here to tell you that Version 1.20 is up and ready on PBW now. But you have a new Version now? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

One thing I noticed about the 1.20 mod. The zip file contained a mod folder, and in the mod folder were two more trek mod mod folders that didn't belong. What was the purpose of those?

Geoschmo

Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 

They were back ups at one point, they won't hurt anything. I checked the zip I uploaded to web site and it did not have these extra folders. Odd. Thanks for uploading it. It will work just fine without the new files. The new files are mainly for the Single Player Version.

The only reason there is a PBW Version and a Single Player Version is because people with saved games did not want to loose them, but also wanted the updated files. When I incorperated the Colony Mod I had to change a lot of the files and this would have made any save game obsolete. So I offered the updates without the colony mod for those who wanted to keep their save game intact.

In the future only the PBW Version will be supported unless specifically ask otherwise by more than one person.

Thanks again Geo, and to Rollo and Fyron for the AI help.

[ September 05, 2003, 05:27: Message edited by: Atrocities ]