Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I have a facility.txt that's mostly finished, if you'd like to look it over, Grumbler? Could at least give you some ideas. It only includes facilities for the Narn, EA, Centauri and Minbari, but it's a start.


Just so long as you're aware that it's designed for the RP-heavy mod I'm in the process of building, so it probably won't apply directly to your own. Neither has it been tested for balance, which is a side-issue with my mod anyway. But hopefully the ideas will be there for you to draw from.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Goatfoam,

Sure, put it up. Anything is better than a blank piece of paper!

Status:
I converted all of the general weapon types to race-specific ones (i.e. the lasers were still the same, they just were been labelled Minari Lasers, EA Lasers, and the like) and modified the TechAreas to allow for race-specific weapons and get rid of all "general" weapons and weapons technologies. Quick run of the game on max tech indicates that all of this is working okay.

I am now plugging in the specialized weapons by race (i.e making Minbari molecular weapons of the same type better than, say EA ones or one of the other races not specializing in molecular weapons). There have been a few problems - the Drazi weapons crept into everyone's tech tree, for no discernable reason, but this was easily fixed by using the racial numbers for Drazi tech.

There should be a beta version of this components file ready in a week or so, and if anyone would like to volunteer to take it for a spin, that would be great. I know that there have to be a ton of typos and copy-n-paste errors in there, but I don't have the morale to go back in and try to scan a coupla tens of thousands of lines of text for the boo-boos. Getting people to play the game will reveal where these errors lie.

A quick question for the Ancients in here: I do not recall the reason why Val set up the weapons files as:

Abbai Light Weapons
Brakiri Light Weapons
Centauri Light Weapons
....
Abbai Medium Weapons
Brakiri Medium Weapons
Centauri Medium Weapons
....
etc

I have reformatted them as

Abbai Light Weapons
Abbai Medium Weapons
...
Brakiri Light Weapons
Brakiri Medium Weapons
...
Centauri Light Weapons
Centauri Medium Weapons
....
etc

so that if you want to add a new race, you just need to add it at the end, rather than inserting it in dozens of places.

Now, I suspect that the way it was done before was a product of the software used to build the list, but if it was not, and there is a really good reason for keeping the existing structure, now would be a really good time to remind me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I've attached the current facility.txt to this post, Grumbler. The ones currently in there are mostly copies of the same abilities, just with different values for each race. Like I said, they all likely need tweaking, and there's a few that grant race-specific abilities, which haven't been added into the file yet. I'm trying to finish off the basic components and mounts at the moment, but as soon as I've finished that lot I'll close off the facility file and put them up too.

As for the status of my own mod, it's a couple of weeks away from beta. If you give it a bash and see anything in it that you like the look of, Grumbler, feel free to take the idea and run with it in your own work.

Also, on the testing, sure. I'll keep checking back here for the components file.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Okay, I think I have gone as far as I want to without giving someone the chance to see if this mod makes sense the way it is going.

I am attaching the "vanilla" version of the updated mod (B5 Ver 2 vanilla.zip) as a beta test of sorts. It is vanilla because every race has the same weapons and facilities, they all use the same AI files (only modified as necessary to account for the different race names), and so they will all look and behave very much the same. There are no improved or advanced weapons inserted yet, and every race has the full 10 levels of each weapons tech (later races will get enhanced weapons and lose access to some of the weapons they can access in the beta version).

What I need is to have people help me ensure that the tradeoffs between weapons techs make sense - i.e. that it is not clearly superior to have molecular weapons vice laser ones, for instance. Research costs should figure into this (matter weapons, for instance, cost little to research but are inferior in performance to later versions of the more costly weapons.

I also could use some help in calculating min, org, and rad costs for the weapons. I have not rationalized them all because I really do not have a system yet. If anyone has a rational-sounding system let me know.

Pictures are the other incomplete element. I did a cursory search of component pack 25 and changed a few weapons images, but in a lot of cases large and medium weapons share an image. Somebody with some familiarity with the components image pack might have better luck settling on appropriate images where they do not exist.

Note that, since all 20 races have the exact same weapons at this point, comments need only refer to the weapon and not the race.

To use this mod, you will need to download it, unzip it into its own folder, and then move the files to the appropriate folders, replacing those with the same name. Obviously, this will incapacitate the mod as it stands, so if you want to use the existing version of the B5 mod, create a new version for this beta test version. You need to have B5 mod version 2 installed first and overwrite the applicable files with these files.

Report any findings of note here (even if it to say you think things look okay so far). The sooner I can get feedback, the sooner I can add the finishing touches and specialize the weapons and facilities.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Grumbler:
Like I said before. I have made a little spreadsheet that covers everything for the weapons. So when I'm done with the sheet I will send it to you and all your problems concerning the weapons will melt like a snowball in Hell. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif
But as you noticed, I'm running late with the sheet. I promissed to send it to you late last week. Sorry, graduating... I'll try to do it this week. This wek should be possible, because this week I'll have to hand in my concept report. So most of the work has been done then.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Well, Tim, I look forward to getting the spreadsheet, but, alas, you approached the weapons the same way Val did (starting with damage and getting weight, etc from that) while I am apporaching it from tonnahge and deriving evrything from that. The difference between the approaches occurs because I am primarily interested in getting the AI to build competitive shhips, and Val was looking to make a competitive human-human game.

In any case, I think the supply values you come up with will be extremely useful (as I am staring at a "blank page" right now as far as methodology is concerned). If the spreadsheet can be modded (i.e. it isn't locked like the last one) I can change the tonnage values to be fixed and not variable and use the sheet as it is designed to be used.

BTW, I found out with a bit of checking that the beta mod:
1. doesn't allow the AI to properly build units, and
2. uses the wrong hull size for designs (and so ends up with less armor than planned).
I am fixing and will post the fix here (it is a combination of AI_D_C, component_enhancement, and component file errors).

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Damage per shot is very important for any leaky shield/armor system.

It does need to be balanced against weapon power, but if you pick reasonable sizes, the fire rate can be adjusted to make that balance.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Yep, SJ, that's one of the reasons I want some others to play with the beta version, because that kind of balance isn't easy to test for.

Right now, it looks like 10% armor seems to work best (less, and you cannot take a turn's worth of shots without being crippled - more, and you cannot deal out the damage). But that is just from testing one type of weapon (lasers). I wanna see how that balance works in other opinions using more weapons.

It also seems to scale - 12 v 12 gives outcomes favoring less armor than does 6 v 6. The smaller the fleet, it seems at first blush, the more critical the armor is. That is, I think, due to the "first salvo" effect, which in small fleets can cripple one ship and leave that side at a permanent, and increasing, disadvantage.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

You could also send in a very heavily armored ship as the leader. It would be the decoy, absorbing a ton of damage, while the next ships in line dish out the hurt after the enemy has locked onto your leader as the "nearest" ship http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

SJ, how does the AI decide which ship in a fleet is the leader, do you know?

If it does it by tonnage, that would be doubleplus good, because in any general ship class (escort, destroyer, cruiser, battleship, dreadnought, base ship) the distinction between "light" normal, and "heavy" is armor - they generally have the same components otherwise. If the AI makes the largest ship the leader, this would result in the most heavily armored ship becoming the leader, which is the way you say it should be.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Grumbler:
I'm sorry I haven't send you the spreadsheet yet. I'm currently in the last days before I have to hand in my final report. I'm sure you can understand I have better things to do right now. Sorry.
Next tuesday I have to hand in the final report, so after that I certainly have time to look at the spreadsheet again. I'll unlock it this time, hehe...

btw, I believe in the last version you were able to change a few things. Like the tonnage/damage conversion rate, but i could be wrong though.

Stay tooned! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Nope, sorry.
It probably puts them in as they arrive where the fleet is being formed.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Tim,

I am in a holding pattern, awaiting any feedback. In a coupla weeks I will just publish the last AI and Comp files and leave it at that, if no one really cares enough to give feedback. Your excel files have been invaluable to date, and I would like to see the final versions, but like you last spring, I don't think it is worthwhile to spend lifespan polishing a project no one cares about. The mod plays well for me, anyway (barring fleets).

SJ: Thanks. Too bad, as I am pretty sure that someone used to talk about fleet composition modification. Right now, the neutrals concentrate ships at war points where major powers have shown up and AI major powers send multiple ships per turn through, one by one, to be slaughtered.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Grumbler:
Thanks for your appreciation. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

I'm now busy correcting the sheet. I hope I can finish it tonight. I'll see how far I can get. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Okay Grumbler, I finished a UNLOCKED version of the sheet. The accuracy function isn't working yet. I have some cool ideas for that, but I though you would like to have a crack at it already. Expect the next version before the end of this... year. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif
BTW, of course I didn't bother to change the text on the first page, the basic thought behind the sheet works and that is enough for now.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Okay, I admit I'm stupid. I forgot to attach the actual sheet itself. Doh!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif
Here it is!

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I'm interested in the mod...

Just not of much use http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Well at least you're taking the effort to post here and tells about your interest. Great!
I hope you will like the upcomming B5 Mods (if they all see the light of day).

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I'm always here. Thanks again to all those who are continuing the work.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

In the interested lurker category, any plans for the Hyach? I built an SE IV classic ship set for them many moons ago. Are you all basing your designs solely on observations from the series or the B5W rules?
--
TAZ

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I started a Shadow set but have not had time to work on it past the ships I had already posted links too. FYI, The Hyach set was one of the sets that inspired me to go ahead and make my own versions of Star Trek ship sets. Thanks Todd. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

The Gold version I did awhile back used the Hyach shipset by you.

Val, then I used the B5 minature game data by Agents of Gaming to base the MOD on. Not sure what the rest are doing as far baseline data.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Coolness. Thanks for the info.
--
TAZ

Hello!
 

Hey all, anyone care to update me on how things are going?

Good to see you PF, and Timstone, SJ & Zircher... (I've only read the past page so far and my head is already spinning!)

Re: Hello!
 

It's a ghost!

Re: Hello!
 

Wow! Val, long time no see! How have you been?

Re: Hello!
 

Boo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Good to see you two as well!

Doing ok - how are y'all doing?

Re: Hello!
 

Well enough, I suppose. Where did you wander off to oh so long ago?

Re: Hello!
 

Yo!

Re: Hello!
 

Holy cow!! WTF!!
It's Val!
*Does a little victory dance*

Absolutely great to see you Val! How are you and where have you been?! Please tells us (or mail me...).
(kaptein-aso [shift+2] planet [dot] nl)

Edit:
Grumbler:
Have you DL'ed my Excel sheet? Is it any good?

Re: Hello!
 

Zircher: The Hyach are still in the mod. In everything but weapons they are as Path left them. Right now, like everyone else, they just have "stock" weapons but if people are satisfied with the weapons v armor balance the Hyach will get the best rating for Laser weapons.

I don't think the Spinal Laser (single huge laser per ship) think will work well against leaky armor, though. Big weapon samage ratings essentially negate the armor because too small a portion is drawn off by the armor and too big a percentage "leaks" through.

Val: Great to see you back! It has been a long time, and we were worried. Thatus is roughly as follows:
1. SJ aded "leaky armor" to the game, I think right before you left.
2. Pathfinder converted the game to Gold and cleaned up the AI files a lot.
3. I added QNP for the fighters and changed engines to the ":mount" system for both fighters and ships.
4. Tim and I scaled down the facilities a bit to ensure the AI built "smart" planets, but the "racialization" was never completed.
5. In order to get a better handle on the balance between weapon damage rate and leaky armor, and to test my idea for AI ship designs, I made all weapons the same, with plans to make them more race-specific once everyone was satisfied that the balance between weapons and armor worked well.

I am putting together the data and AI files that I have changed as part of this playtesting, and will post them later today.

Tim: Downloaded, but I haven't had time to do more than scan it over. It looks good, though, and I will use it for the "final" weapons versions.

Re: Hello!
 

Wow, im amazed to see Val here, it must have been at least 2 years, maybe even longer ?

Re: Hello!
 

Hate to interupt the welcome-home-party, but if someone wanted to D/L this (from scratch) how would he go about it?

The best I've done is find a rather out-of-date version.

Re: Hello!
 

Ron,

Go to http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce/B5Web.htm and get version 1.80 (which is updated through SE4 Gold 1.91) and then replace the applicable files with the ones from the file attached to this post.

Note to all: The attached files update the AI files and several of the data files so that the AI correctly builds units and arms its ships correctly. There are NO images here and it assumes you have component image mod pack 25.

Comments are appreciated, as I really will not go much further until I am satisfied that the weapons versus armor balance is right (i.e. that tonnage spent on armor and tonnage on weapons give roughly the same benefit in combat).

Note that the facilities are still bare-bones, but I am looking thorugh several suggested mods by race and hope to hhave something completed along those lines soon. I just have to make sure the AI can use it properly, or else make their cost/benefit be such that their use is somewhat moot.

Re: Hello!
 

Top notch Grumbler! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon14.gif
Great work!

After my graduation I plan on making a collection of weapons (the data) for 42 (!!) races of the B5 universe. This collection can be used as input for my Excel Sheet. After graduation I'll update the Excel Sheet (correct text and such) and add a formula for the accuracy. I haven't had time to play around with a nice formula, but I know in which corner to seek for a nice solution.

Oh yeah, I'll graduate (again) on April 14th. Keep your fingers crossed. Unfortunately I'm not allowed to publish the report I've made. Otherwise I would have shown you guys what I do best (besides doing nothing... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif).

Re: Hello!
 

Woot! Tomorrow I'll have to present the findings of my research to some high ranking Suits. I'm sure I'll pass with ease. Though they can pose me with the most difficult questions because they know the subject. When I'll have to present my findings to some professor I have the advantage, because I know the subject and he doesn't. So if I pass tomorrow, I'll be homefree.

Just wanted to post my 1600th post in thsi thread, call me sentimental... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: Hello!
 

The B'stard

Will all those who contributed to the Val Memorial Fund please PM me with suggestions on what to do with the current balance.

I don't relish posting hundreds of small cheques but will return monies to the major contributors.

Timstone: those milk tokens are not redeemable here in the United Kingdom; should I return them?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Hello!
 

Nomor:
Ah crap Nomor! What do you want me to do with 1,4 metric tons of milk tokens?! I had to charter a fishingboat just to get them to you. Now what?

Re: Hello!
 

I saw nothing attached to your post.

Edit: Never mind. I just spotted it at the top.

Re: Hello!
 

Great. Feedback is necessary, so I would appreciate any comments. I am not going to go back and finalize the weapons until I know if I am in the ballpark (the workload is crushing and I will do it only once), because the weapons/armor balance can only be established heuristically, and for that I need people to test and comment.

Comments on things other than weapons are welcome as well, of course, but the issue of "do I spend the tonnage on weapons or armor" needs to be presented correctly if the mod is to work.

Re: Hello!
 

Just doublechecking, but that .exe file is the same one as was released several months ago, right?

No need to re-D/L the whole thing?

Re: B5 MOD plus B5 mod Beta 2 txt files
 

Just a quicky.

Why is a Fission Engine 1 500kT?

I must have done something wrong http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: B5 MOD plus B5 mod Beta 2 txt files
 

There may be scale mounts for the engines (under "Weapon Mounts"). If not, probably too big. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: B5 MOD plus B5 mod Beta 2 txt files
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif Ta

Re: B5 MOD plus B5 mod Beta 2 txt files
 

Ooh; I like this Engine Mount thingy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Just been terminated by an access violation though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

Re: Hello!
 

The .exe files should not have been included, it was an oversight. The .exe is the 1.91 from MM.

Re: B5 MOD plus B5 mod Beta 2 txt files
 

Nomor, what was processing when you got the access violation? These are not good! Usually, it is an AI thing. Make sure that you don't have any races but the ones I have included AI files for. The old AI files don't match up with the new tech file.

Re: B5 MOD plus B5 mod Beta 2 txt files
 

Thanks
I reinstalled the various mods and seem to have cured the problem. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Are you using the facilities text file from Rambie's Site.

I'm not really sure what version I'm testing at present.I think it's the Beta 2, but not the vanilla version.

The many different versions of the B5 Mod
 

Hahaha...
The many, many, many versions of The Mod are getting confusing, no?
I'm almost done with my graduation. Just another week and I'll have much, much more time to dedicate to The Mod. Then I'll start making the weapons everyone is waiting for soooo long. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif

Re: B5 MOD plus B5 mod Beta 2 txt files
 

Nomor,

I am not using any of the data files from Rambie's site (though some of them may have the same dates, since I have't changed much except tech, components, comp-enh, vehiclesize, and facilities.

None of the .txt files from the 1.80 version are still good - they all need to be replaced, including the "upgraded facilities" file.

I don't want to get into versions until the beta version has been tested and I start to produce "production" versions, but will start to versionize at that point.