Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

I'm fairly new to the game and I mostly play Proportions, but I was wondering: Do any mods add to the Psychology tree? It seems fairly underdeveloped.

As I'm sitting here eating my dry turkey sandwich for lunch I had a few ideas. I'm not a modder so I don't know if they are feasible:

1) Psychotropic Drugs/Rage Engine-Component that increases offense% whil decreasing defense%

2) Commissar/political officer-component that adds to boarding defense (counts as X boarding parties or something, but is smaller)

3)Mind Blank-component that counteracts Psychic scanning(not sure how that would work, possibly replicate MC with different costs or drawbacks)

4)Martyr culture-a component that replicates kamikaze/cobalt warhead but more powerful or with some bonus

5)Zealots/Indoctrination-troop components that increase offense/defense

I think the Psychology tree could be fleshed out much more. Maybe re-creating components/facilities from other trees (provide similar bonuses) but with different costs/sizes or at different places in the Psych tree.

Any suggestions?

[ July 29, 2003, 18:27: Message edited by: KnidVermicious ]

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Those are all moddable.

Although I doubt a political officer would help much to fend off alien invaders with guns and armor.
You may be thinking of an intel defense type thing.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Well... Adamant adds some facilities that only affect the planet's happiness instead of the whole system, and do it at double the rate. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

If we flesh these out more, they can all be added to Adamant, as I think you have some great ideas there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ July 28, 2003, 18:41: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

I guess I was thinking of a political officer being a "motivator" when defending the ship. Sort of a "If you dare surrender this ship to these xeno+scum pirates I'll kill you myself" thing. You know, to build morale.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Commissar, excellent.

Officers that don't carry sidearms to engage the enemy with them, they carry sidearms so that they may easily engage their own men.

[ July 28, 2003, 18:49: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

He had commissar in his initial post. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Political Officers are not quite the same thing. They create propaganda to build moral. They do not shoot people trying to run away.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Yeah, I guess I was thinking of commissar for the defense against boarding. I think a political officer would be good for a defense against mutiny, which in SEIV could be represented by Allegiance Subverter. Is there any way to have a component give the MC's defense against the Subverter without giving the bonus of not needing a bridge, crew, and life support?

Is there any way to mod a facility to give bonuses to defense for troops/WP's on a planet?

Any way to incorporate self destruct devices on facilities? Scorched earth style.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

I like the idea of a facility adding intel defense. How could that be done? Something like a Secret Police HQ or something.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Another idea:

A facility that increases resource production that stacks with robotoid factory. Uh...a Labor Union Center...

I realize that some of these are covered by other techs, but I think its interesting to add a different path to reach the same goal, especially if it makes the Psych branch a little more useful.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nope. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There is an ability available, but it does not work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nope. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All you can do is have a facility generating more intel points. The intel modifying ability of the Fate Shrine does not work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Can't make them stack. The best of each ability that affects a planet is used. They can have one planet affecting ability for each resource functional, and one system affecting ability for each resource functional.

[ July 28, 2003, 19:12: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

To brainstorm: Areas that would be affected by Psychology

1)Morale-bonuses to offense/defense, bonuses against boarding

2)Zealots-kamikaze/cobalt bonus, morale bonuses(as above), planetary defense bonuses, scorched earth?

3)Security-secret police, cracking down on spies

4)Industrial morale-propoganda getting the workers to eke out just a little more production

5)Experiments in psychology-drugs, hypno-training, supersoldiers, whacked out psychos

6)Political psychology-bonuses to trade (possible?) from certain facilities

7)Know your enemy-Admiral Thrawn-like bonuses to combat, replicate events predictor?

8)Just won't give up-make ships/units harder to kill, component like shield or armor only smaller or cheaper...something

9)Really go with the Drones-create a different Version of Drones tied to Psych tree. Kamikaze pods, instead of computer they have a single crewman, different advantages/disadvantages compared to regular Drones

10)Propaganda Center-get that war frenzy going, gives bonuses to resource production, intelligence, and research that stacks with the other facilities that give bonuses

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Ok, so planet wide abilities don't stack. Hmmm. I still think it would be interesting to offer abilities through Psych tree. Possibly they could cost less or come earlier than from other techs.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

If they cost less and/or come earlier, they should be less effective.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

I agree. I think that it should just be a different, not better, way to get that ability. It should be early/cost more or early/less efficient or later/cheaper, later/smaller etc.

Mostly, I just think it would be cool to have Drugged-out Crazy ships, Frothing Maniac Troops, and I've always wanted a Secret Police force of my very own.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Would a Propaganda Center that gave bonuses to Intel production, research production, and Resource production be moddable? A combo of Citizen Databank+Robotoid Factory+Computer Complex. Even if it wouldn't stack with the single facilities, you would have the advantage of only using up one slot. Of course, it would have to cost more, come later, or give a lower bonus.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Certainly. There is no practical limit to the number of abilities you can give a facility, component, etc. I suggest making that one be planet-affecting instead of system-affecting, as it would need to be close by to have an effect.

[ July 28, 2003, 19:43: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Well I'm taking my first step into a broader world. I'm going to attempt to mod this. I'm going to start with Psychotropic Drugs.

Question: Does "Combat To Hit Offense Plus" component stack with others? ie will Psychotropic Drugs stack with Combat Sensors?

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

As long as it is a different family, yes. Two components in the same family do not stack. But, two components in different families will stack (with that ability).

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

It'll stack if it is a different family. The best value from each family is added to the best value from all of the other families.

PvK

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Having seperate families doesn't work with facilities though?

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

It depends on the ability. Some abilities can stack, some can not.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Question: Supply amount used only works for weapons, correct? I couldn't have Psychotropic Drugs (which works like combat sensors) continually using supply, correct?

Jeesh, I have newfound respect for all you modders (not that I didn't before), this is pretty complicated.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Supply amount works for other things too, such as Engines, Cloaking, anything that has an order to use it, etc. Bonus to hit abilities never use supplies though.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Thanks Fyron.

Question: what's the deal with the family number? Are those chosen from specific numbers or can I just make one up for a new component series?

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

You can pick any number up to some huge limit, such as 65k or so. I do not know what the actual limit is, but it is huge. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Let's see if this formats properly. I have no image, and I don't know about the family bit yet. I thought the component should be small and based on organics. I figured it in 3 levels giving +10/-10 to +30/-30 with organic prices of 400,600,800. The tech would be level I under Psychology and price equivelant to Applied Poli Sci. I'm just pulling those numbers out of the air, though. I don't have a great grasp of balance yet.

Name := Psychotropic Drugs I
Description := Chemical stimulants send crew into a battle frenzy.

Pic Num := 12
Tonnage Space Taken := 5
Tonnage Structure := 5
Cost Minerals := 0
Cost Organics := 400
Cost Radioactives := 0
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Sat\WeapPlat\Drone
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Sensors
Family := 18
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Psychotropic Drugs
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 2
Ability 1 Type := Combat To Hit Offense Plus
Ability 1 Descr := Gives a 10% attack bonus in combat (only 1

component per ship effective).
Ability 1 Val 1 := 10
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Combat To Hit Defense Plus
Ability 2 Descr := Recklessness causes a -10% defense penalty in

combat.
Ability 2 Val 1 := -10
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

You might not want it in family 18... try going with 3000 or some unused number (just do a search for Family := 3000 (with the correct spaces) in the comps file).

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Image? How about a fried egg? ("This is your ship. This is your ship on drugs.")

PvK

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

/me shudders involuntarily

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Entirely possible, yes. One component with both the combat-to-hit-plus and combat-defense-minus traits.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'll go you one better: make it an auxiliary bridge with anti-boarding properties. Then you can haveonly one per ship, it helps resist the Allegience Subverter, keeps the ship under control if the bridge is taken out, and provides some additional anti-boarding defense.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Here's the Propaganda Center. I see it going +2/+4/+6. Any tips on balance for any of these? Especially with research costs, etc.

Name := Propaganda Center I
Description := Relentless propaganda drives citizens to increase

production.
Facility Group := Population Support
Facility Family := 6600
Roman Numeral := 1
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 37
Cost Minerals := 1000
Cost Organics := 4000
Cost Radioactives := 1000
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Applied Political Science
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 5
Ability 1 Type := Resource Gen Modifier Planet - Minerals
Ability 1 Descr := Increase mineral production on a planet by 2% (only 1

facility per planet effective).
Ability 1 Val 1 := 2
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Resource Gen Modifier Planet - Organics
Ability 2 Descr := Increase organic production on a planet by 2% (only 1

facility per planet effective).
Ability 2 Val 1 := 2
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Resource Gen Modifier Planet - Radioactives
Ability 3 Descr := Increase radioactive production on a planet by 2%

(only 1 facility per planet effective).
Ability 3 Val 1 := 2
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0
Ability 4 Type := Planet Point Generation Modifier - Research
Ability 4 Descr := Increase all research on a planet by 2% (only 1

facility per planet effective).
Ability 4 Val 1 := 2
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Ability 5 Type := Planet Point Generation Modifier - Intelligence
Ability 5 Descr := Increase all intelligence generation on a planet by

2% (only 1 facility per planet effective).
Ability 5 Val 1 := 2
Ability 5 Val 2 := 0

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How does an Aux Bridge help it against the AS? The AS just has a percent chance to convert the ship based on its damage. No components on the ship have any effect on this save the MC, which prevents it entirely.

Knid, you should probably add new tech Psychology-related areas. It is not good to have one tech area give 10 different items IMO.

[ July 28, 2003, 22:20: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

The Combat To Hit abilities stack only with other components of different families. So if you put two Combat Sensors on a ship, you'll only get the effect of one, but if you put a Combat Sensor and a Psychotropic Drug Distributor on a ship, you'll get the effect of both.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Which is exactly what both PvK and I said earlier. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Pychology could be used in urban planning, leading to more efficient/ compact Proportions-style city facilities.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

So here's my first shot.

New techs:1059489950.txt

New facilities:1059489990.txt

New components:1059489990.txt

These are just to flesh out concepts. Numbers, cost, etc. are all extremely rough. This is my first attempt at any kind of mod, so I'm sure these are unbalanced.

Overview:

1)Added 2 new techs under Psychology-Applied Poli Sci, Political Indoctrination, and Experimental Psychology.

2)Level 2 Psychology gives access to Advanced Psychological Analysis, Advanced Political Indoctrination, and Advanced Experimental Psych.

3)Applied Poli Sci (1-3)gives:
* Urban Pacification Center(unchanged)
* Propaganda Center(fac)= +2/+4/+6% to min, rad, org, intel, and research points (government rallying the workers)
* Secret Police HQ (fac)= +to intel, -to all other production (secret police root out spies but have bad effect on morale/economy)

4)Political Indoctrination (1-3) gives:
*Commissar(comp)-bonus to combat, self destruct (forcibly improves morale, will not allow surrender)
*Fanatical Crew (comp)=crew quarter provides extra boarding defense, more hit points, and combat bonuses

5)Experimental Psychology(1-3) gives:
*Psychotropic Drugs (comp)=bonus to offense, penalty to defense

6)Advanced Psych Analysis (1-3)gives:
*Xeno Profiling Center(fac)=system wide bonuses to combat

7)Advanced Political Indoctrination(1-3)gives:
*Banzai pods(comp)=hard to kill kamikaze fighters
*Suicide Assault (comp)=troopers jump onto enemy hull,(high damage, range 1, skip shields, massive supply use, reload 30)

8)Advanced Experimental Psych (1-3)gives:
*mind blank crew (comp) combines crew quarter/bridge/life support and MC with self destruct-hopefully will create a crew immune to subVersion,immune to virus, and will blow themselves up instead of capture. Also gives combat bonuses.

All balance, naming, modding, or new idea suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Do combat bonus components work for troops? Can I make a stimpack for troops that work like Psychotropic Drugs?

Urban Planning, eh? I'll be returning to school in fall to get my masters in Urban Planning. I doubt we'll cover galactic expansion planning, though...sigh...

What kind of flavorful facilities could Urban Planning provide? I don't want just more compact buildings. Proportions (which I play, and am using as my baseline) has plenty of those. Can I make a facility that allows more population on a planet than normal?

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I believe they do, and it will work for the whole stack. Since it will work on the whole stack, you might just want to make it a Field Pharmaceutical Facility, and make it take up twenty kilotons.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

I worked up a Combat Apothecary unit. This makes me want to expand the Biology tech to include super-soldier genetic engineering type stuff. Has anyone done this before? Is there much point in diversifying the options available to ground units?

The Combat Apothecary goes from 1-3, scaling by cost, size, and bonuses.

Name := Combat Apothecary III
Description := Field unit dispenses stimpacks and psychotropic drugs to combat troops.
Pic Num := 271
Tonnage Space Taken := 20
Tonnage Structure := 20
Cost Minerals := 40
Cost Organics := 400
Cost Radioactives := 0
Vehicle Type := Troop
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := One Per Vehicle
General Group := Vehicle Control
Family := 7100
Roman Numeral := 3
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Troops
Tech Level Req 1 := 3
Tech Area Req 2 := Experimental Psychology
Tech Level Req 2 := 3
Number of Abilities := 3
Ability 1 Type := Ship Bridge
Ability 1 Descr :=
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Combat To Hit Offense Plus
Ability 2 Descr := Frenzy gives a 20% attack bonus to stack.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 20
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Combat To Hit Defense Minus
Ability 3 Descr := Recklessness causes a -20% defense penalty to stack.
Ability 3 Val 1 := 20
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

What could be modded for ground units?

1)combat bonuses, which affect the stack(super soldiers, berzerkers)
2)hit points, possibly making small size-high hit point comps
3)Heavy weapons/Anti-armor teams-high damage very low reload
4)Any way of creating kamikaze units? Troops can't ram, correct?

range, boarding, subVersion, speed,cloaking, etc. have no effect on ground combat, correct?

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Possible way to protect troops from ship based weapons, thereby forcing the enemy to land troops and engage on the ground?

[ July 29, 2003, 17:49: Message edited by: KnidVermicious ]

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

3)Heavy weapons/Anti-armor teams-high damage very low reload
Reload time is ignored for troops.

Planetary shields could do the job; Landing troops will bypass the planetary shields.
You could also remove planets from the target list of ship-based weapons.
On a planetary scale, Meson bLasters will do no damage, for instance... APBs will not penetrate an atmosphere... Only CSMs with nuclear warheads or a long-term ground troop presence will have a significant effect.

[ July 29, 2003, 18:00: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Oooh I like it. I think removing planets as targets for the weapons would be simplest (not quickest) Then I could expand the planet assault weapons some, increase the choices for troops. I suppose you would have to tone down weapon platforms some in order to get troops to land.

What possible side effects could come from changing these? How does the targeting order work for planets? WP die, then troops, then facs?

I guess this is going about outside of Psychology, but I've been bitten by the modding bug. I just like thinking about what could change.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Question: Does the component ability "Component Destroyed On Use" work with weapons? If I use it on Suicidal Assault will it shoot, and then destroy itself? Also, could this ability be added to a troop to create a high damage, guy-with-a bomb on his back, that would then destroy itself?

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

If that effect works on Weapons (which I don't think it does) and it work on Units, it would still need to be the only component on the Unit, as a Unit does not lose components or their abilities: the entire Unit must be destroyed.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

Well, that's how I envision it. A suicidal bomber runs up to the enemy and blows himself up (destroying the unit) and hopefully taking some enemy with him.

Does anyone else think that planetary assaults/ground combat should be a bigger part of the game, or is it just me? Not to say I don't enjoy slagging a planet, but I also love the thought of my space marines dropping on a planet. I want the ground combat side to have more flesh, I guess.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

In a similar vein, if you set Weapon Type to Warhead (like Kamikaze Warhead) does that mean it destroys itself? Does it apply damage to the ship? Can it only be used on a ram action?

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This only works on components that have a Use button on the main game interface, such as Emergency Movement/Supply and Stellar Manipulation. I am fairly sure it does not work for Cloaking though.

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

How about Warhead?

Does that work on Troops?

Re: Psychology mods? Increasing the role of troops?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A warhead adds its damage to the damage done by the ship in a ram. It can not fire on targets.