PBW Hate everyone game - join now
 

I've been thinking about starting a new PBW game that would have a similar flavour to the King of the Hill style games but multiplayer. I'm thinking the way to do this would be to ban any interaction between players. (ie no trading, no treaties) The comm feature would be used for what it's best at; hurling insults. (all taken in good fun of course) I'm thinking a 10+ players game with eveyone at war. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Would anyone be interested in such a game?

[ August 31, 2003, 18:21: Message edited by: DavidG ]

Re: PBW Hate everyone game - join now
 

Sounds interesting.

You would prevent players from forming "unofficial alliances", no actively attacking one another, or would that be allowed?

Geoschmo

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I really like this idea. I love KOTH for what it is and what it is not, but multiplayer SEIV is the best IMO. There is a lot of wisdom out there available for harvest about PBW games - a multiplayer KOTH could be the ultimate expression of balanced play.

DavidG, are you taking suggestions for game setup and KOTH format or do you have a plan already?

Gecko

Re: PBW Hate everyone game - join now
 

There is not really much you can do to detect (or prevent) "unofficial alliances". You might not ever attack a particular empire because it is never advantageous to do so, and they might not attack you for the same reason. I know I would hate to be accused of having some sort of "unofficial alliance" just because I have not attacked a neighbor.

Also, if two players do form such an alliance, they can stage mock wars and battles just to keep up appearances of not having an alliance.

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I don't really have any solid plan in mind so suggest away. I think 'unofficial alliances' would be ok because like IF says you can't really control that. (too bad if the alliance fleets happen to end up in the same sector. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

I just like to recreate the atmosphere of a KOTH game. (ie a whole galaxy of warmongering psychopaths.) I like KOTH games because they do away with all the diplomacy and backstabbing and other 'gamey' things that can cause players to become upset with one another. (Diplomacy and bacstabbing can be fun but sometime I just want to kill things. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

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Yep, that is why I asked. Cause it's always best not to write laws that you can't really enforce. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: PBW Hate everyone game - join now
 

Multiplauyer KOTH (M-KOTH ?) idea sounds great to me.

IMHO the main question now is how to adopt the KOTH format (bottom-middle-top) to the M-KOTH.

Here is one possibility (surely not the best solution, but still better than nothing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

Hill is formed of 3 levels: bottom, middle, top (and the place for king of course).
Bottom level: 10 players. First 5 losers stay in the bottom level, the other 5 move up to the middle.
Middle level: 10 players. First 7 losers move down to the bottom level, the other 3 move up to the top.
Top level: 9-10 players (9 players if there is no king, otherwise 10). First 9 losers move down to the bottom level, the winner becomes the king.

Seems rather simple. No I tried to calculate how many Groups need to finish the games in order to elect the first king...
2 Groups in the bottom gives 1 group in the middle.
3 Groups in the middle gives 1 group in the top.
1 group in the top gives the king.
So we need 10 Groups to finish their games to elect the first king. That's pretty much and it will take a long time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Maybe decreasing the number of players in the Groups could help?

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I think David was more or less talking about a single game rather then a league, but I am sure we could come up with some alternative method of standings that could be used with multiplayer, no ally games.

Geoschmo

Re: PBW Hate everyone game - join now
 

Yea just call the game Hate.

Rule One.

Hate everyone. Trading disabled. Once you meet some one declare war. If you want to make alliances or play friendly join another game.

Rule two.

See rule one.

Nice small map and away we go...

p.s.

I am trying to cut down on pbw games.... Stop it.

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ah, the memories... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
We had a game like this: "Up close and personal", I believe it was called. It was a lot of fun. No pesky politics, just frag away. 4 man enter, one man leaves...
Sorry, for the rambling..

Rollo

Re: PBW Hate everyone game - join now
 

With "Tesco Rules" I'll join.
I like the "Hate everyone" rule best of all those rules stated in that post.

Re: PBW Hate everyone game - join now
 

Though I could be wrong, I think one of the attractions to KOTH (single) is speed. It holds a fairly high level of anticipation and games go fairly quickly. With 10 players, the game could go for quite a while (and you can forget having 10 players be on at the same time on a Saturday or Sunday).

Also, game winners are already influenced by varitions in luck. System location, breathables, etc. Having 10 players would, IMO, result in even more of a luck factor for a winner (and less skill).

Just my take on it without thinking really deeply.

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One could create a "dull map" with every system the same with all systems having two warppoints.
Setting stating points as equally apart as possible (10 players, 10 systems?)

The more I think of it the more I like it, 1 system per player.
What to do, build only warships or colonize aswell?
We can make systems with many colonizable planets, all same atmosphere and say that so that all players choose same atmosphere.

[ August 04, 2003, 21:22: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: PBW Hate everyone game - join now
 

I agree that trying to limit alliances is futile – multiplayer game theory and all that.

Seems to me we need to define two aspects of KOTH-Multiplayer (KOTH-M):

Game Setup and Rules:
Allow Gifts/Tributes = False
Allow Technology Gifts/Tributes = False
Allow Surrender = False
Can only send a General Message from the Communicate screen.

KOTH-M Structure and Rules:
Not sure about this. For example, say we start a game with 10 players at the Bottom of the Hill and the game concludes: Last man standing. Who moves up to the Middle of the Hill and who stays at the Bottom of the Hill? We need more than one player at the Middle of the Hill level to generate a game. I doubt we will have 10 Bottom of the Hill games to contribute their victors to the Middle of the Hill game – even Geo’s 2003 PBW tourney had only seven games of five players each (FYI: active KOTH players hovers around 30 +/- 2).

If we want 10+ player games, realistically we may get two going initially. They each contribute their top 5? players to the next level. So we get a two level hill…

Re: PBW Hate everyone game - join now
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yea, this seems like a good idea for a one-off PBW game, but not so good for a KOTH league. Geo, didn't you propose an alternative method of standings before? Something about using an external game service to track standings?

Gecko

Re: PBW Hate everyone game - join now
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">2024 game was pretty much one system per player. I think there were 3 or 4 extra systems total and 20 players. I was thinking this morning actually about a game with the same number of systems as players, and each system would have a warp point to all the other systems. There would be no way to defend all the warp points would there? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah. Case's ladder. You could also do something simple in house like a simple reverse point system based on place order at the end of the game. Top of the hill would be teh player with the most points. And you could "age" the points so if you stop playing games you drift to the bottom.

Geoschmo

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You got me to thinking every player puts 30$ in the pot and at the end of the game the Last man standing gets half the pot and PBW gets the other half. That may go a long way toward ending alliances and if it does not then PBW will win and we all win.

[ August 04, 2003, 22:01: Message edited by: Gozra ]

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, I was kicking around an idea for a "civil war" PBW game. Any size/type map and everyone starts in the same system. Defend or expand? How about with a 3 or 10 planet start?

Gecko

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that would be nasty geo... 10 warp points to 10 other players... ( 10 planet start and no other planets http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

Re: PBW Hate everyone game - join now
 

Ok, you all tell me what you think of this.

Until someone comes up with a better name let's call it The L.M.S. League. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

</font>

1. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All player must join the league to join a game. </font>
2. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Players can be in as many games as they can handle.</font>
3. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As a player is knocked out, they report a loss to each player still remaining in the game.</font>
4. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Settings for games optional with a few exceptions: No treaties, No gifts/trades, No surrender, Small maps
   </font>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The map thing could be handeled a couple ways. We could use premade maps, or designed quadrants that are planet heavy, or go totally random. In fact we can do all of the above and players will just join games setup the way they like.

The reporting a loss thing let's us use the automated ladder league that I mentioned a while back.

Do we think this would get enough players to make it worth doing?

Geoschmo

[ August 05, 2003, 01:16: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: PBW Hate everyone game - join now
 

have to see what idea the man likes....

geo you love running tournies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

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[20:37] <geoschmo> It's a league, not a tourney. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

hehe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: PBW Hate everyone game - join now
 

Gees go away for a few hours and look what happens. My idea for a single game is now a league. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I was just thinking of a single game with rules like tesco said. 'hate everyone'

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not to be confused with teh P.M.S. League. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: PBW Hate everyone game - join now
 

If I can promote my own game here for a moment. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
DavidG - Perhaps you wish to join a PBW Game called "Pairs" which will be starting soon. It is 2 team mates against all other teams. We are still deciding game settings but it looks like it will be no communications, trades, treaties with any other team.
We have 3 teams so far...

Edit - Sorry - Forum link http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...;f=23;t=009636

[ August 05, 2003, 02:06: Message edited by: Baron Grazic ]

Re: PBW Hate everyone game - join now
 

Somewhere in this thread, there was mention of a ladder. Which brings rise to the question: Geo, what's going on with the ladder system you were talking about some time back?

Re: PBW Hate everyone game - join now
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not much of anything really. You think there is enough interest in it? I suppose I could set it up. Once it's up it can pretty much run itself. The biggest hassle is people have to register with another website and put up with some banner ads.

Geoschmo

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Geo, I'd be interested in a ladder. I used to play in the SMAC tournament over at Apolyton, and it was a lot of fun to compare my skills with the best players (even if I wasn't playing directly against them).

Re: PBW Hate everyone game - join now
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not much of anything really. You think there is enough interest in it?
Geoschmo</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not sure. I just remember it being discussed earlier in the year and it seemed like several people were interested. Of course, you could have started a thread to check on the interest level instead of ACTUALLY announcing a new league.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nah, that would be boring. We'd have a bunch say they were interested and not really join. Or the thread would slip down and I'd forget about it. (Which is what happened Last time I brought it up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

This way we find out how many really are interested. The worst that happens is the league goes nowhere and gets disbanded. I am not out anything. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: PBW Hate everyone game - join now
 

Well sometime soon (at least when PBW is up) I think I'll set up a game with 'hate everyone' rules. ie

- no treaties
- no trading or gifting. (ban on ship gifting will have to be by agreement since I don't think you can ban this
- score see all
- no ruins.
- no surrender
- no intel
- 48hr turns??

hopefully get about 10 players?? Also hopefully we can avoid too many "unofficial alliances" Agreeing with your neighbour to stay out of each others way and attack the #1 player to take him down a notch would be OK. Just remember you hate your neighbour too so you're not going to help him in any other way. (ie no ship trading or 'accidentaly' letting ships of population or colony ships get captured)

[ August 06, 2003, 00:31: Message edited by: DavidG ]

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i am in... and you can disable ship trades and gifts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

And I will just attempt to fight everyone....

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Will there e more than one system per player (Please say no)?

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Count me in for a hate everyone game - should be fast and bloody at least!

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OK so yes I was talking about a single game and it has been set up: Psychotic Tendancies

Final game settings are still open to discussion, but I think if everyone who joins simple accepts that fact that they hate everyone then any settings are ok. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

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Bump

You know you want to join.

BTW I probably wont start this game till i get back from vactaion Sept 13

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Hmmm...Cut throat game.....like the sig says...I'm in 4 games now so I'm out but sounds like fun...run a couple and do a "King of The Hill"

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Bump.

So what happened to all the people who said they wanted to play? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

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Just joined - thanks for the reminder http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif